During the programme a lady came on to have a bitch about there not being enough handed out to her and other "middleclass" Australians.
When asked about her definition of middleclass and what her and her husband earned, it b3ecame obvious that her definition of middleclass is people who are earning a megre $150,000 to $200,000 per annum.
Now I'm passed middle age, when can I expect to be middle class?
Unfortunately, Australia is becoming a country of greedy middleclass whingers.
Dusty
Beth54 said
11:28 PM Jun 12, 2012
Unbelievable how some people think Dusty.
How on earth will she manage on the pension? Hopefully she won't be eligible because she has too much money/assets.
kandagal said
11:55 PM Jun 12, 2012
Makes you wonder doesn't it. We manage to save a bit on our pension (of course helped by 'free camping') but we don't waste money on cigarettes, pokies, fancy clothes, a lot of eating out etc.
jimricho said
01:01 AM Jun 13, 2012
This is symptomatic of the culture of entitlement that has brought Southern Europe to its knees.
jimricho said
02:23 AM Jun 13, 2012
kandagal wrote:
but we don't waste money on cigarettes, pokies, fancy clothes, etc.
Neither do I, I save it for essentials such as booze, long lunches etc.
pauline said
02:52 AM Jun 13, 2012
You are my sort of bloke jimricho.............. we can't take it with us.
Cruising Granny said
04:13 AM Jun 13, 2012
If you shop "carefully" you can still have a drink on a budget. I always considered middle-class to be $40,000 to $100,000, and upper class from there up. Apparently I'm wrong. So does that make me a pauper? Yet I eat ok, pay the rent, fuel the car, and even manage to save a bit when I'm not on the road. No driving, no fuel. Save it for the road. The younger generation, younger than 40, seem to want everything now whether they can afford it or not. TV's and computers in every room, then the games and DVD's, 2 NEW cars in the garage, a large 4/5 bedroom house with 2 or 3 bathrooms for a huge, monstrous mortgage. The latest clothes and shoes and other fashion accessories. Oh, I forgot the makeup. That stuff costs hundreds of dollars. Consumerism is alive and well, whether they can afford it or not.
Happywanderer said
04:47 AM Jun 13, 2012
I would love to be middleclass if I was earning 150,000 - 200,000. Never earned that much in my life. What does that make the rest of us, I mean the ones who earned under 150,000. Are we all lowerclass or is there another name for us??
pauline said
12:46 PM Jun 13, 2012
Poor..............
sandsmere said
12:53 PM Jun 13, 2012
Seems everyone is looking for a handout these days .
John . F . Kennedy once said " Do not ask what your country can do for you . Ask what you can do for your country " .
Not many Australians take his attitude .
Scotty01 said
03:22 PM Jun 13, 2012
I have gone through life working long and hard hrs. OK I have been lucky in that I have made quite reasonable money all that time but I could never get on to ANY Gov hand outs. OH except when my wife was home dying I didnt work and stayed home to care for her and the big hearted Gov allowed me $100 a F/N because I exceded the income limit for carers in the LAST financial year. I have paid tax all my life and even now as a self funded retiree have to do all sorts to get any Gov assistance with dead beats get it all handed to them.
Kaid said
03:23 PM Jun 13, 2012
think we would be classed as the working poor.
dazren said
07:11 PM Jun 13, 2012
Landfall wrote
Watched Q&A last night with Julia Gillard.
During the programme a lady came on to have a bitch about there not being enough handed out to her and other "middleclass" Australians.
When asked about her definition of middleclass and what her and her husband earned, it b3ecame obvious that her definition of middleclass is people who are earning a megre $150,000 to $200,000 per annum.
Now I'm passed middle age, when can I expect to be middle class?
Gidday Dusty, I also watched Q+A last night, and to be fair to that lady. It was Julia who said when answering the question that the so called middle class, was 150-200,000 , Not the Lady in question saying it,
She just stated that she considered herself to be middle class and there is absolutely nothing in the package for her , she May be in a similar situation to myself, I still work, but my income is well under 80 K. My wife has not worked for the last 13 years, but we have No Debt at all. I do not think that rates as middle class ?? But there is still Nothing in the assistance package for me either !!
So lets be fair on the lady in question ? she may be in a similar situation to myself ??? and not earning anything neay JULIA'S statement. !!
-- Edited by dazren on Wednesday 13th of June 2012 07:12:41 PM
milo said
07:46 PM Jun 13, 2012
id give my right nut or both to be able to earn that kind of money!! struth...
aussietraveller said
11:04 PM Jun 13, 2012
I think its absolutely amazing how many people these days believe that the Government or the Country owes them and as for the ABC program Q&A which I also watched I think that Julia Gillard actually presented very well which just goes to show how much skew the media puts on the so called news they put out there. I would also dearly love to see Tony Abbott appear on Q&A so that we can hear his side rather than the media image of Mr negative.
03_troopy said
01:37 AM Jun 14, 2012
milo wrote:
id give my right nut or both to be able to earn that kind of money!! struth...
I don't think eunuchs earn that much mate...
03_troopy said
02:18 AM Jun 14, 2012
It wasn't Hyacinth Bucket was it?
barina said
04:32 AM Jun 14, 2012
I am the working poor..................... single income earner with no dependants........never get a tax break, and now they keep hinting want to play around with the baby boomers super......
Landfall said
05:09 AM Jun 14, 2012
dazren wrote:
Landfall wrote
Watched Q&A last night with Julia Gillard.
During the programme a lady came on to have a bitch about there not being enough handed out to her and other "middleclass" Australians.
When asked about her definition of middleclass and what her and her husband earned, it b3ecame obvious that her definition of middleclass is people who are earning a megre $150,000 to $200,000 per annum.
Now I'm passed middle age, when can I expect to be middle class?
Gidday Dusty, I also watched Q+A last night, and to be fair to that lady. It was Julia who said when answering the question that the so called middle class, was 150-200,000 , Not the Lady in question saying it,
She just stated that she considered herself to be middle class and there is absolutely nothing in the package for her , she May be in a similar situation to myself, I still work, but my income is well under 80 K. My wife has not worked for the last 13 years, but we have No Debt at all. I do not think that rates as middle class ?? But there is still Nothing in the assistance package for me either !!
So lets be fair on the lady in question ? she may be in a similar situation to myself ??? and not earning anything neay JULIA'S statement. !!
-- Edited by dazren on Wednesday 13th of June 2012 07:12:41 PM
Hi dazren,
I'll merely agree to disagree, with who said what.
Whatever, this country is leading the world in economics at the moment and still nearly everyone wants to whinge?
Personally, not looking forward to the future with TA.
Dusty
Cruising Granny said
05:39 AM Jun 14, 2012
Who decides what class who lives in? Is it about income, property, investments, or all of the above? Some folk get to be in the upper class due to family inheritance. Some get there by pure hard slog. I hate this class distinction thing! It's just so wrong! In my view we are all equal. I don't care how flash your house, car, van, clothes are. I don't care how much money you have in the bank, how many os investment properties you have. We are all equal. We are all Aussies, and let's work really hard to keep it that way. Australians have a great lifestyle. We've been able to work, eat and enjoy life no matter how humble we go about life. I think I'm successful, but obviously I'm definitely not in any class at all.
gypsy rover said
10:27 AM Jun 14, 2012
Cruising Granny wrote:
Who decides what class who lives in? Is it about income, property, investments, or all of the above? Some folk get to be in the upper class due to family inheritance. Some get there by pure hard slog. I hate this class distinction thing! It's just so wrong! In my view we are all equal. I don't care how flash your house, car, van, clothes are. I don't care how much money you have in the bank, how many os investment properties you have. We are all equal. We are all Aussies, and let's work really hard to keep it that way. Australians have a great lifestyle. We've been able to work, eat and enjoy life no matter how humble we go about life. I think I'm successful, but obviously I'm definitely not in any class at all.
Hey CG I think forumites will agree you are "Top Class"
Cheers!
Chris
-- Edited by gypsy rover on Thursday 14th of June 2012 10:28:05 AM
dazren said
10:43 AM Jun 14, 2012
landfall wrote
Whatever, this country is leading the world in economics at the moment and still nearly everyone wants to whinge?
I agree, But Take out Mining, and Resources, and what have we got ????
Not much ?? And if Europe does crash, and India and China as a result does not need the same amounts of our resources. ??? where does the money come from to meet the Interest payments on the 350 Billion dollars we have borrowed. and run the country
''WHOOPS'' I promised myself that i would not discuss politics on this forum ? SO i am now closing this thread. Happy Travels Everyone
-- Edited by dazren on Thursday 14th of June 2012 10:44:14 AM
Landfall said
11:54 AM Jun 14, 2012
Antigoon,
I totally agree with your figures and you have put together a very good posting.
A few years ago I came to the conclusion that with the improved economic times that we had formed a FOUR class society.
General, Lower Middlecalss, Upper Middleclass and Upper Class.
Based on the ladies figures on qanda, that would put her in the Upper Middleclass.
The figure of $50k to $60k per annum would be a Lower Middleclass figure in my four class structure.. Not to be sneezed at?
I agree with the fact that we are all "born" equal, but some are more equal than others.
Life is what you make it, unfortunately some people do not want to be responsible for their lives.
As for mining booms, etc.the goverment is playing with the cards it has been dealt with and doing a good job according to the rest of the world. If you don't compare us with the rest of the world, what standard do you use as a bench mark?
Dusty
-- Edited by Landfall on Thursday 14th of June 2012 11:56:44 AM
Gerty Dancer said
05:26 PM Jun 14, 2012
My partner left England in the 60's to get away from their class distinction rubbish. It seems to be creeping in here too nowadays.
antigoon said
05:58 PM Jun 14, 2012
Class distinction will for the most part hopefully die out with the passing of the baby boomers. Listen to the young and you do not hear them talk of lower, middle or upper classes or haves and have-nots or even the Joneses that everybody wanted to keep up with. If relative income is important to you then source the facts for some reliable data rather than react to uninformed opinion or those with an agenda to push.
Middle class, or whatever you want to call it, is unlikely to be anywhere near $150-200K as far as individual incomes go if the ABS 2009-10 Survey of Income and Housing is any guide:
The ABS found the mean (or arithmetic average) disposable income for all Australia households in 2009/10 was $848 per week or about $44,000 per year. This would be approximately equivalent to a gross income somewhere in the low to mid $50K range depending on circumstances and sources of income packaging.
The median (or mid-point) household disposable income was $715 per week or about $37K per year, which is equivalent to a gross income somewhere in low to mid $40K range.
As a comparison the gross minimum wage at the time of $570 per week or about $30K per year.
While 10% of households received disposable income less than $344 per week or about $18K per year, the next 80% of households had disposable income up to $1448 per week or about $75K per year, which equivalent to around $100K gross.
Loki said
01:00 AM Jun 15, 2012
Oh deary me! I am a pauper! Then why am I so happy? Should I worry more about what I don't have? It's all getting too much, maybe I'll just not worry and keep living within my meager means.
valnrob said
01:52 AM Jun 15, 2012
I think us nomads are the lucky ones, lots of us travel on our pensions and see more of the real country than a lot of others earning big bucks. I don't really care who earns what as long as I can live quite well on the money I have, which is just the pension.
cheers
Cruising Granny said
04:01 AM Jun 15, 2012
The big buck earners go overseas to impress others, but they don't know JS about this country. The country that provides for them. Antigoon, welcome to the Grey Nomads forum. So tell us something about yourself. Nice of you to join us.
Cruising Granny said
04:56 AM Jun 15, 2012
gypsy rover wrote:
Cruising Granny wrote:
Who decides what class who lives in? Is it about income, property, investments, or all of the above? Some folk get to be in the upper class due to family inheritance. Some get there by pure hard slog. I hate this class distinction thing! It's just so wrong! In my view we are all equal. I don't care how flash your house, car, van, clothes are. I don't care how much money you have in the bank, how many os investment properties you have. We are all equal. We are all Aussies, and let's work really hard to keep it that way. Australians have a great lifestyle. We've been able to work, eat and enjoy life no matter how humble we go about life. I think I'm successful, but obviously I'm definitely not in any class at all.
Hey CG I think forumites will agree you are "Top Class"
Cheers!
Chris
-- Edited by gypsy rover on Thursday 14th of June 2012 10:28:05 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll accept that I'm a top class normal person.
I provided for my kids on my own, survived all sorts of experiences, to be here today. Upright and breathing is a bonus.
Watched Q&A last night with Julia Gillard.
During the programme a lady came on to have a bitch about there not being enough handed out to her and other "middleclass" Australians.
When asked about her definition of middleclass and what her and her husband earned, it b3ecame obvious that her definition of middleclass is people who are earning a megre $150,000 to $200,000 per annum.
Now I'm passed middle age, when can I expect to be middle class?
Unfortunately, Australia is becoming a country of greedy middleclass whingers.
Dusty
Unbelievable how some people think Dusty.
How on earth will she manage on the pension? Hopefully she won't be eligible because she has too much money/assets.
Neither do I, I save it for essentials such as booze, long lunches etc.
You are my sort of bloke jimricho..............
we can't take it with us.
I always considered middle-class to be $40,000 to $100,000, and upper class from there up.
Apparently I'm wrong. So does that make me a pauper?
Yet I eat ok, pay the rent, fuel the car, and even manage to save a bit when I'm not on the road.
No driving, no fuel. Save it for the road.
The younger generation, younger than 40, seem to want everything now whether they can afford it or not. TV's and computers in every room, then the games and DVD's, 2 NEW cars in the garage, a large 4/5 bedroom house with 2 or 3 bathrooms for a huge, monstrous mortgage. The latest clothes and shoes and other fashion accessories. Oh, I forgot the makeup. That stuff costs hundreds of dollars.
Consumerism is alive and well, whether they can afford it or not.
What does that make the rest of us, I mean the ones who earned under 150,000. Are we all lowerclass or is there another name for us??
Seems everyone is looking for a handout these days .
John . F . Kennedy once said " Do not ask what your country can do for you . Ask what you can do for your country " .
Not many Australians take his attitude .
I have gone through life working long and hard hrs. OK I have been lucky in that I have made quite reasonable money all that time but I could never get on to ANY Gov hand outs. OH except when my wife was home dying I didnt work and stayed home to care for her and the big hearted Gov allowed me $100 a F/N because I exceded the income limit for carers in the LAST financial year. I have paid tax all my life and even now as a self funded retiree have to do all sorts to get any Gov assistance with dead beats get it all handed to them.
Landfall wrote
Watched Q&A last night with Julia Gillard.
During the programme a lady came on to have a bitch about there not being enough handed out to her and other "middleclass" Australians.
When asked about her definition of middleclass and what her and her husband earned, it b3ecame obvious that her definition of middleclass is people who are earning a megre $150,000 to $200,000 per annum.
Now I'm passed middle age, when can I expect to be middle class?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gidday Dusty, I also watched Q+A last night, and to be fair to that lady. It was Julia who said when answering the question that the so called middle class, was 150-200,000 , Not the Lady in question saying it,
She just stated that she considered herself to be middle class and there is absolutely nothing in the package for her , she May be in a similar situation to myself, I still work, but my income is well under 80 K. My wife has not worked for the last 13 years, but we have No Debt at all. I do not think that rates as middle class ?? But there is still Nothing in the assistance package for me either !!
So lets be fair on the lady in question ? she may be in a similar situation to myself ??? and not earning anything neay JULIA'S statement. !!
-- Edited by dazren on Wednesday 13th of June 2012 07:12:41 PM
I don't think eunuchs earn that much mate...
Hi dazren,
I'll merely agree to disagree, with who said what.
Whatever, this country is leading the world in economics at the moment and still nearly everyone wants to whinge?
Personally, not looking forward to the future with TA.
Dusty
Some folk get to be in the upper class due to family inheritance.
Some get there by pure hard slog.
I hate this class distinction thing! It's just so wrong!
In my view we are all equal. I don't care how flash your house, car, van, clothes are. I don't care how much money you have in the bank, how many os investment properties you have. We are all equal.
We are all Aussies, and let's work really hard to keep it that way.
Australians have a great lifestyle. We've been able to work, eat and enjoy life no matter how humble we go about life.
I think I'm successful, but obviously I'm definitely not in any class at all.
Hey CG I think forumites will agree you are "Top Class"
Cheers!
Chris
-- Edited by gypsy rover on Thursday 14th of June 2012 10:28:05 AM
landfall wrote
Whatever, this country is leading the world in economics at the moment and still nearly everyone wants to whinge?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, But Take out Mining, and Resources, and what have we got ????
Not much ?? And if Europe does crash, and India and China as a result does not need the same amounts of our resources. ??? where does the money come from to meet the Interest payments on the 350 Billion dollars we have borrowed. and run the country
''WHOOPS'' I promised myself that i would not discuss politics on this forum ? SO i am now closing this thread. Happy Travels Everyone
-- Edited by dazren on Thursday 14th of June 2012 10:44:14 AM
Antigoon,
I totally agree with your figures and you have put together a very good posting.
A few years ago I came to the conclusion that with the improved economic times that we had formed a FOUR class society.
General, Lower Middlecalss, Upper Middleclass and Upper Class.
Based on the ladies figures on qanda, that would put her in the Upper Middleclass.
The figure of $50k to $60k per annum would be a Lower Middleclass figure in my four class structure.. Not to be sneezed at?
I agree with the fact that we are all "born" equal, but some are more equal than others.
Life is what you make it, unfortunately some people do not want to be responsible for their lives.
As for mining booms, etc.the goverment is playing with the cards it has been dealt with and doing a good job according to the rest of the world. If you don't compare us with the rest of the world, what standard do you use as a bench mark?
Dusty
-- Edited by Landfall on Thursday 14th of June 2012 11:56:44 AM
Class distinction will for the most part hopefully die out with the passing of the baby boomers. Listen to the young and you do not hear them talk of lower, middle or upper classes or haves and have-nots or even the Joneses that everybody wanted to keep up with. If relative income is important to you then source the facts for some reliable data rather than react to uninformed opinion or those with an agenda to push.
Middle class, or whatever you want to call it, is unlikely to be anywhere near $150-200K as far as individual incomes go if the ABS 2009-10 Survey of Income and Housing is any guide:
The ABS found the mean (or arithmetic average) disposable income for all Australia households in 2009/10 was $848 per week or about $44,000 per year. This would be approximately equivalent to a gross income somewhere in the low to mid $50K range depending on circumstances and sources of income packaging.
The median (or mid-point) household disposable income was $715 per week or about $37K per year, which is equivalent to a gross income somewhere in low to mid $40K range.
As a comparison the gross minimum wage at the time of $570 per week or about $30K per year.
While 10% of households received disposable income less than $344 per week or about $18K per year, the next 80% of households had disposable income up to $1448 per week or about $75K per year, which equivalent to around $100K gross.
Oh deary me! I am a pauper! Then why am I so happy? Should I worry more about what I don't have? It's all getting too much, maybe I'll just not worry and keep living within my meager means.
cheers
Antigoon, welcome to the Grey Nomads forum. So tell us something about yourself. Nice of you to join us.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll accept that I'm a top class normal person.
I provided for my kids on my own, survived all sorts of experiences, to be here today. Upright and breathing is a bonus.
Excellent article on this topic http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/money-cant-buy-their-love-20120615-20fc4.html
(a bit political in parts but it criticises both sides so I guess ok for posting here)