Darwin Clamps Down On Illegal Campers - GN Nomads Website Story
Duh said
09:34 PM Apr 24, 2013
I am repeating this story on the forum as the original thread doesn't describe the subject in the title as the Mayor of Darwin may respond to it and would need to find the topic to respond. See original GN front page story here;
They Mayor has registered on the forum and is waiting for her membership to be approved. She is also in the middle of their meetings for the forthcoming City budget so has very little time at the moment. She has asked me to post this in the meantime;
The Mayor of Darwin, Katrina Fong Lim, has registered and is waiting for approval from the Webmaster.
In the meantime she has asked me to post these comments;
"I am concerned that my remarks might have been misinterpreted in that we were talking particularly about the people who are illegally parking on our foreshore and in our parks, breaking into our power boxes and so on.
I would very rarely see any Grey Nomads perpetrating such crimes. The City of Darwin would like to maintain its reputation as a city that welcomes travellers however we also have to be sensitive to our residents sentiments.
I would love to see some innovative solutions to our current problems but I can also say, that the Council currently doesnt view it as our core business to provide alternative camping sites. I am hoping that there may be a community response to the problem in the long term."
KATRINA FONG LIM LORD MAYOR
-- Edited by Duh on Wednesday 24th of April 2013 09:37:25 PM
biggles said
07:38 AM Apr 25, 2013
Hi Vic ..
Experience has taught me that ones actions are the best indicator of sincerity ! .. lots talk the talk but lose the "walk"
.. I'll be listening !
Jon
Duh said
08:23 AM Apr 25, 2013
Very true Jon, I am wondering whose business it is then to provide alternative camping sites, I am a little confused with that statement, I can't see the community doing it. Always been councils as far as I am aware
Duh said
10:51 AM Apr 25, 2013
GaryKelly wrote:
Of course you're confused by the statement, Vic. That's what politicians are famous for... saying things that sound reasonable but lack substance.
Like the old saying "Baffle them with Bullxxxx" Gary.....
We once belonged to a caravan club that held a national rally at a country town council owned caravan park.
We had a 50 RV's turned up, most with couples and a few singles, close to 100 people give or take a few.
The town was tourism friendly and the council park gave us all a good rate for the week we were there.
The treasurer of the club collected and tallied all the receipts from the members on things they had spent in the town during that week.
This included the park fees, car & RV servicing and repairs, fuel, haircuts, supermarket food, dining at cafe's etc, clothes, newspapers etc, etc.
At the end of the week, club members had spent over $75,000 in the town collectively. The results were provided to the town Mayor who was most appreciative of the the feedback on the income provided to local businesses by the club.
-- Edited by Duh on Thursday 25th of April 2013 11:02:04 AM
biggles said
01:40 PM Apr 25, 2013
.. I will wait for an explanation .. Cairns Council has a similar attitude and just 70 k's away Mareeba is reaping the benefits ..
GaryKelly said
03:37 PM Apr 25, 2013
Of course you're confused by the statement, Vic. That's what politicians are famous for... saying things that sound reasonable but lack substance.
Plendo said
04:13 PM Apr 25, 2013
I believe most communities would wish to create an environment to cater for visitors, but who in the community should execute this wish?
Surely the council are the representatives of the community that the community empowers, and pays to manage their communal infrastructure, and their commercial affairs.
The Mayor's comment indicates that the council does not regard this as important (not core business), and that they expect a business or charity group to take advantage of the vacume created by their inactivity.
Mike C said
04:47 PM Apr 25, 2013
We did Darwin in 2010. Basically waited down south a way for a site to become available. Ended up at Howard Springs, Enjoyed the two weeks we stayed there and would go again, recall the cost still being in the $30-40 per night mark Just checked the website and they are quoting 252/week in May or June so prices seem pretty stable and not as costly as some around Melbourne or Sydney.
Would be nice to find a basic facility (not resort style) that was cheaper but unfortunately not much in those parts we are pretty much a captive audience unlike the more crowded eastern states.
cheers
Mike
-- Edited by Mike C on Thursday 25th of April 2013 04:48:33 PM
Grams said
05:33 PM Apr 25, 2013
Yes as usual, the council will gladly pass the buck to someone else. Then if anything goes wrong, it's not their fault.
I love our council, they got the community together, and it's all of us that opted for expanding the CP, for setting up one of the best children's playgrounds I have seen, it is totally surrounded by a child safe fence, even has shade sails over it. Toilets next to it, and a BBQ area, plus now a skate park (this I think was a waste of money, as no one uses it).
Why can't the Darwin council, just look around and for once take off their rosé coloured glasses and see exactly what their town needs. Tourism is one of the biggest money making ventures in any town, our town has catered for them, why can't they?
marto1944 said
09:18 PM Apr 25, 2013
Yep I could not agree more with you all I have had a gut full of pollys and beaucrats and am feed up with the bull dust thay feed us but we must all remember it us who put them there please think wisely when you next vote
regards
peter
johnq said
09:40 PM Apr 25, 2013
There are many on this site who can readily put a convincing business case to this Lord Mayor. But should they bother?
I will leave that up to the Darwin businesses, apart from the accommodation owners in Darwin, or so it seems. They might reflect on what business and diversity, law-abiding grey nomads can bring to town, compared with the small cost of providing some clean council parks, a community service anyhow.
I don't argue to be 'accepted' as a customer anywhere. If entrepreneurs want my trade and money, they not only need to supply a service but be polite, respectful and decent while doing so. It is a civil society, or at least we hope so.
There are so many lovely places to visit and so many wonderful people not met that I can easily choose to go elsewhere.
retiree said
10:53 PM Apr 25, 2013
been to darwin last 2 winters lucky my brother lives up there on acreage so we do not have to pay for sites but talking to many tourist up there c/p fees are sky high and there is a waiting list of tourist to come in in there peak season also very little free camping available full of back packers who will park anywhere and dont care about fines as they leave the country mindle beach fully packed with these backpackers may june july hardly ever see any gn illegal camping dont council relealize it costs a big fuel to get to darwn no matter which state you travel from but must say cannot get better weather over our winter months safe travels cherylle
Grams said
01:20 AM Apr 26, 2013
Wouldn't it be great if a farmer, or a landowner, who had acres of land, with trees, a nice river even, with nice fishing...he could ask for $20-$30 a night for each van, car, MH that parked on his land for the night. He'd make a mint from GN that don't want the frills of most CP.
Dreaming is free...
brickies said
01:23 AM Apr 26, 2013
I will be visiting Darwin without my caravan in June , Will leave more money in the city than I would have if I was in my caravan , I can see why they would not care about grey nomads money , When they are all ready over run with big paying Tourist who are cashed up . I think if grey nomads stop going to darwin they would be the only losers
pauline said
03:18 AM Apr 26, 2013
I have to agree with brickies, Darwin is a great place, BUT, we lived there in 2006 for 18 months, rented a nice 2bed unit for $280 a week........could not get it now for less then $600, the gas works that are happening there will really put a huge strain on accomadation for workers and the flow on will really effect the grey nomads, not a lot of caravan parks and what they have will end up going to workers who will be there all year round, unforunately most tourists only have a 4-5 month window of oppotunity and probably people who want to visit will have to fly in and stay in motels..............which is such a shame because it really is a great and unique place and I don't know what can really be done to fix the situation. Just my thoughts having lived there and family that still do.
Plendo said
06:17 AM Apr 26, 2013
This is not the first thread about council areas not being ready and prepared to take advantage of the great opportunity we see ourselves providing to these areas, and I know it will not be the last. After all we are just entering complaining season again.
Stepping back for a moment, there appears to be only one group seriously agreived by this situation, and that group appears to be well represented on this forum.
There also appears to be a general consensus across the group that the problem should be solved by others, that our role in the solution is just to complain about the status quo.
So perhaps we should be having a look at ourselves, our expectations, and what if anything we can do to assist others to help us fix the problem we have.
Perhaps if we started of by understanding the problem, the role of the players, and who has what to gain by solving the problem. If this was presented as a coherent case, bringing with it an understanding of the benefits, it would be more likely to gain the cooperation of the stakeholders to make some progress.
I believe the first step is to start to gather the facts: How many RVs are there on the road through winter, how many people, how much are they spending, how does that spend break down, what areas are popular, and which are being avoided, etc.
I know many of you reading this are already planning a reply, to put me back in my box. But please step back, reflect on how much we achieved with all the energy that was devoted to this subject last year, and please consider what we can do differently this year to become part of the solution, rather than just the problem.
Plendo said
06:23 AM Apr 26, 2013
Duh wrote:
Plendo wrote:
snip......I believe the first step is to start to gather the facts: How many RVs are there on the road through winter, how many people, how much are they spending, how does that spend break down, what areas are popular, and which are being avoided, etc.....snip
I would be interested in how you think these facts could be obtained
I should start by saying I do not pretend to have all the answers, but I honestly hope I am able to contribute in some way to shapping a better situation for future years.
Establishing reliable statistics to base a case on is not going to be easy, or quick, hence the reason that everyone has avoided doing it to date.
Maybe running an RV census over a number of months, where we ask forum members to submit statistics for the site they are at could create a statistical base to work from.
These statistics could be submitted on a web page with site Id (use the camps site Ids), the number of RVs present that night, then break the number down into self contained, services dependent, power dependent, number of people, average daily spend, how long been there. This would mean walking around talking to people (good way to meet people). Clearly many sites would be too big to be able to gather the detail, on these sites gross details would be enough. Remember anything we manage to get is better than what we have today.
Recognise that we would only have a small sample each day, but that it would build up over time, and could be extrapolated into some meaningfull statistics.
I firmly believe there are some simple easy to implement answers out there, but that we as the party with the most to gain we need to participate in shapping our own future.
I am willing to participate, but please remember I am still working full time, so my resources are a little limited. I would like to hear from anyone else who would be interested in tossing ideas around in a smaller group, to establish a concept to bring back to the forum. I do not believe it would be constructive to waste everyones time working through this initial process.
Apologies for hijacking the Darwin debate, IF I get interest I promise I will bring it back as a stand alone thread.
-- Edited by Plendo on Friday 26th of April 2013 06:25:01 AM
herbie said
06:29 AM Apr 26, 2013
When we were in Darwin we stayed out at the Polo Grounds, i know it was very dusty,but we were out most days spending money .So can someone please tell me if this spot is not available now.
Duh said
07:59 AM Apr 26, 2013
Plendo wrote:
snip......I believe the first step is to start to gather the facts: How many RVs are there on the road through winter, how many people, how much are they spending, how does that spend break down, what areas are popular, and which are being avoided, etc.....snip
I would be interested in how you think these facts could be obtained
johnq said
08:59 AM Apr 26, 2013
In a media release the Lord Mayor is quoted as saying,
"Darwin is a city that was voted by the Lonely Planet as one of the worlds top 10 must visit cities along with being named having two of Australias top 100 beaches" http://www.darwin.nt.gov.au/media-centre/news/lord-mayors-message
The lord Mayor also commented on how friendly Darwin is to travellers.
Maybe now that Darwin accommodation businesses are riding the crest of a wave it isn't so crucial to be as welcoming to those who might not visit the most expensive accommodation and restaurants.
However tourism is enormously fickle and mineral prices can flux internationally affecting that source of visiting worker. Perhaps when the Lord Mayor's view of the less moneyed end of the tourist market becomes more public, along with the declared reluctance to provide economic facilities, Lonely Planet might review its positive comments about Darwin too. After all, there are many destinations the world over striving to increase their market share. There is recent press about grey nomads finding Southeast Asia destinations a real blast and cheaper.
Golddetectornomad said
09:16 AM Apr 26, 2013
If only farmers on the outskirts of towns and city's could marshall themselves into a group to take on local Councils including all the vested interests who will invariably attempt to block them, and start providing secure places i.e. fenced areas with adequate all weather road access for independant RV's and Motor Homes to park in safety with their peer groups....we dont need the majority of "benefits" over capitalised Caravan Parks provide and charge accordingly........ Brickies, if you are correct in your assertion then Caravan Parks should not complain as Grey Nomads supposedly mean little to them as a demographic group, which is why they cater to those with as you say, "pockets full of money"....how absurd.... Whatever you mean by your term "real tourists"....I think we Grey Nomads are the real deal tourists enjoying what Australia has to offer....and much to see is invariably free....stick to Movie World, Wet and Sexy or whatever its called and the others for your touristy kicks...but its not for us a group who will gain momentum with a voice as our numbers continue to increase.....then watch how Caravan Parks start to cater for separate unpowered/powered decent located sites at realistic fee when they see us all heading hopefully for the secure sites on the outskirts of towns as I suggest.....farmers with a voice on Councils will change Councils ideas driven by stiffling vested interests, for the benefit of all, as farmers realize they can divsersify their income streams.....your term "little money in our pockets" is not only demeaning but incorrect....we have proved as a group we will pay a "reasonable" fee for "reasonable value" service.... glad I'm not one of your Real Tourists...how boring...how sad...do they actually get to meet each other..or do they take their city attitudes with them and do not not even know their neighbour.... Come on farmers..make some money and enjoy the experience.....we dont ask for much....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 26th of April 2013 09:18:53 AM
Perhaps bodies like the NACC which I understand represent all the major Australia wide RV Clubs (eg; CMCA and others) could and are probably already doing something about it. The CMCA being the largest RV body in Australia also have the resources available.
If anyone is interested in following this up (I'm not) perhaps they should contact the NACC to bring this up at their meetings for investigation etc. My interest is knowing what the attitude of Darwin Council is towards Grey Nomads and I am waiting for the Mayors further feedback.
Thanks for your feedback on the matters in general Plendo, they are all related one way or the other.
-- Edited by Duh on Friday 26th of April 2013 10:21:12 AM
Duh said
12:09 PM Apr 26, 2013
Same here Jon, I will wait for a further response from her other than what she as asked me to convey on a previous post.
I am sure that many of the matters complained about by some would be dealt with by the organisations mentioned which are better equipped and have the resources to do so.
I just want to make a comment about retirement, when I was working I thought I would have time to do lots of things when I retired, but it is surprising that this doesn't seem to happen, I don't know whether when you are working you are geared up to a higher level of action than when you are retired or what, and then slip down a few cogs afterwards, but still seem time poor, incredible as that may sound.
Or perhaps we find that after retirement we need more medical appointments than we did before and it is a never ending series of doctors and hospital and specialists appointments that seem to eat into our free time.
-- Edited by Duh on Friday 26th of April 2013 12:10:00 PM
brickies said
03:10 PM Apr 26, 2013
Grey Nomads have got to start seeing they are not out there saving towns with there spending , The real Tourist are the real one ones who spend up big so why would you start looking after the people with little money in their pockets over the ones who have pockets full of money and want the best , This is the same thing that is happening with caravan parks more money in Villas and Cabins then caravan sites and why should they not make money they have put big money into their business. There Are lot of people in this country who want everyone else to pay but not them .
Council wont supply us with cheap or free camping , Now see if the farmer will do it if you want to go to tourist places you must pay
herbie said
05:16 PM Apr 26, 2013
I thought that maybe the case,but i could not see this happening up around Darwin , so it makes it a lot of difference .I own some land down around the coast here 1770/Angus Waters ,and i am going to go see local councile here re parking up for self contained RVs .I have a big Amish sheed on it but nothing else at the moment,as my heart says go back to WA after this project is finished here. But i want to know the strucyure / legal ramifications.and a 1000 other questions. So will be interesting to find out from council what it all is.
Regards Herbie.
-- Edited by herbie on Friday 26th of April 2013 05:16:49 PM
biggles said
06:00 PM Apr 26, 2013
Hi Vic ..
Like I said earlier, I'll wait to hear what the mayor has to say .. I'll not pre-empt or second guess what will be said ..
and yes Vic .. I met Brian some years ago but haven't really become involved with the ATCMCC ..
I found their first rally that I planned to attend was a little over-priced for me at the time and never really got back with the group. Also a member of the CMCA but thats only for insurance purposes
Brian himself is a most pleasant, receptive and jovial person and would no doubt respond to anyone that would approach him on any topic ..
We both are also members of the HF Radio Club which I believe is second to none in Oz and also has its fair share of HAM users too (VK's) ..
Jon
herbie said
07:27 PM Apr 26, 2013
Just may thoughts on why farmers would not be very interested in implementing setting up some of their land for use to us to park up on, for say between $10/20 per night.The red tape before they even made their first $ back would be just to expencive to even concider. Just to create a gravel track/ road into the area could be big bucks and then to clear the area and level it ,maybe even have to fece the area.Then we have all the crap that would need to be worked through regarding Main Roads departments ,due to trafic turning in and out of the site. The laws are so strong in regard to this. I know from setting up mine site access at one site in SA it took two years to work through just this stage before a single sod of dirt was turned over.Then the EPA will have to be involved and then that becomes another sarga in it self believe me i work with that dept every day.The councile would be dictating the terms also in what is required and whats not allowed.To even get permision to create all this from councile would be very strict.Then the naubouring land holders most likley would objest , due to a 100 resons why they do not want RVs parking near their property,due to dust/ noise/and upsetting their peace of paradise.Next the insurance costs along would be very expensive ,and you would need to cover your self to the hilt on this ,as you can bet your butt ,some one would trip over a rock or stick and see an open door to take a law suit out on the owner for not providing a safe place to camp. Once some one is taking money from another person (in this case to camp/)he then in turn has all sorts of legal responabilities to that person. The health department would also need to put their two bobs worth in regarding issues of health and safety.Doubt if a planning permit would get issued with out curb and chanelling / toilet/shower block/ even if us campers did not need them. The the issue is paying people to man all this inforstucure to keep it in some kind of safe condition.And because in this case we are talking about Darwin region , they really only have a shoulder period of 4/5 months per year, it would take a lot of years to see any profit returned back. And then the tax dept would want some of the money ,and that could change the farmers income tax structure altogether. So if i was a farmer i would not even entertain this idea...Also i would think the local c/van parks already set up in Darwin would be fighting the farmer to the end due to the fact as them having a case of unfiar competition. ....Oh if life was just that little bit less regulated we all would be so much happier.
EllenajoeL said
08:24 PM Apr 26, 2013
As a 'farmer' living on rural/residential acreage with excellent eco-tourism potential and little $...heres my add.....
If I was to truly consider such an option as letting folk formally stay on the property for $ reimbursement, I know that the governance and legal requirements required to set up such a place versus the potential return on investment would pretty much IMMEDIATELY rule out 'public' space set aside for low $ tariffs like self-contained rigs.
IMHO, its pretty much the same outlay for zoning/town planning requirements and insurances and infrastructure etc whether the customer is a B&B/homestay or a BYO camper type. Difference is...truly, if you add a provided breakfast there is many more net $ to be had. So I wonder about the general idea that farmers might like to avail themselves of campers....
I dont wish to sound at all dismissive of others opinions (and Florinhill is a classic alternative example), my point as an acreage owner is to clarify a known part of this discussion
(EDIT: lots of folk spend time here for free...and often...though the do trend more towards a comfy inhouse bed etc )
-- Edited by EllenajoeL on Friday 26th of April 2013 08:26:19 PM
I am repeating this story on the forum as the original thread doesn't describe the subject in the title as the Mayor of Darwin may respond to it and would need to find the topic to respond. See original GN front page story here;
http://thegreynomads.com.au/2013/04/illegal-campers-targeted-in-darwin-clamp-down/
They Mayor has registered on the forum and is waiting for her membership to be approved. She is also in the middle of their meetings for the forthcoming City budget so has very little time at the moment. She has asked me to post this in the meantime;
The Mayor of Darwin, Katrina Fong Lim, has registered and is waiting for approval from the Webmaster.
In the meantime she has asked me to post these comments;
"I am concerned that my remarks might have been misinterpreted in that we were talking particularly about the people who are illegally parking on our foreshore and in our parks, breaking into our power boxes and so on.
I would very rarely see any Grey Nomads perpetrating such crimes. The City of Darwin would like to maintain its reputation as a city that welcomes travellers however we also have to be sensitive to our residents sentiments.
I would love to see some innovative solutions to our current problems but I can also say, that the Council currently doesnt view it as our core business to provide alternative camping sites. I am hoping that there may be a community response to the problem in the long term."
KATRINA FONG LIM
LORD MAYOR
-- Edited by Duh on Wednesday 24th of April 2013 09:37:25 PM
Hi Vic ..
Experience has taught me that ones actions are the best indicator of sincerity ! .. lots talk the talk but lose the "walk"
.. I'll be listening !
Jon
Very true Jon, I am wondering whose business it is then to provide alternative camping sites, I am a little confused with that statement, I can't see the community doing it. Always been councils as far as I am aware
Like the old saying "Baffle them with Bullxxxx" Gary.....
We once belonged to a caravan club that held a national rally at a country town council owned caravan park.
We had a 50 RV's turned up, most with couples and a few singles, close to 100 people give or take a few.
The town was tourism friendly and the council park gave us all a good rate for the week we were there.
The treasurer of the club collected and tallied all the receipts from the members on things they had spent in the town during that week.
This included the park fees, car & RV servicing and repairs, fuel, haircuts, supermarket food, dining at cafe's etc, clothes, newspapers etc, etc.
At the end of the week, club members had spent over $75,000 in the town collectively. The results were provided to the town Mayor who was most appreciative of the the feedback on the income provided to local businesses by the club.
-- Edited by Duh on Thursday 25th of April 2013 11:02:04 AM
.. I will wait for an explanation .. Cairns Council has a similar attitude and just 70 k's away Mareeba is reaping the benefits ..
I believe most communities would wish to create an environment to cater for visitors, but who in the community should execute this wish?
Surely the council are the representatives of the community that the community empowers, and pays to manage their communal infrastructure, and their commercial affairs.
The Mayor's comment indicates that the council does not regard this as important (not core business), and that they expect a business or charity group to take advantage of the vacume created by their inactivity.
We did Darwin in 2010. Basically waited down south a way for a site to become available.
Ended up at Howard Springs, Enjoyed the two weeks we stayed there and would go again, recall the cost still being in the $30-40 per night mark
Just checked the website and they are quoting 252/week in May or June so prices seem pretty stable and not as costly as some around Melbourne or Sydney.
Would be nice to find a basic facility (not resort style) that was cheaper but unfortunately not much in those parts we are pretty much a captive audience unlike the more crowded eastern states.
cheers
Mike
-- Edited by Mike C on Thursday 25th of April 2013 04:48:33 PM
I love our council, they got the community together, and it's all of us that opted for expanding the CP, for setting up one of the best children's playgrounds I have seen, it is totally surrounded by a child safe fence, even has shade sails over it. Toilets next to it, and a BBQ area, plus now a skate park (this I think was a waste of money, as no one uses it).
Why can't the Darwin council, just look around and for once take off their rosé coloured glasses and see exactly what their town needs. Tourism is one of the biggest money making ventures in any town, our town has catered for them, why can't they?
Yep I could not agree more with you all I have had a gut full of pollys and beaucrats and am feed up with the bull dust thay feed us but we must all remember it us who put them there please think wisely when you next vote
regards
peter
I will leave that up to the Darwin businesses, apart from the accommodation owners in Darwin, or so it seems. They might reflect on what business and diversity, law-abiding grey nomads can bring to town, compared with the small cost of providing some clean council parks, a community service anyhow.
I don't argue to be 'accepted' as a customer anywhere. If entrepreneurs want my trade and money, they not only need to supply a service but be polite, respectful and decent while doing so. It is a civil society, or at least we hope so.
There are so many lovely places to visit and so many wonderful people not met that I can easily choose to go elsewhere.
Dreaming is free...
Stepping back for a moment, there appears to be only one group seriously agreived by this situation, and that group appears to be well represented on this forum.
There also appears to be a general consensus across the group that the problem should be solved by others, that our role in the solution is just to complain about the status quo.
So perhaps we should be having a look at ourselves, our expectations, and what if anything we can do to assist others to help us fix the problem we have.
Perhaps if we started of by understanding the problem, the role of the players, and who has what to gain by solving the problem. If this was presented as a coherent case, bringing with it an understanding of the benefits, it would be more likely to gain the cooperation of the stakeholders to make some progress.
I believe the first step is to start to gather the facts: How many RVs are there on the road through winter, how many people, how much are they spending, how does that spend break down, what areas are popular, and which are being avoided, etc.
I know many of you reading this are already planning a reply, to put me back in my box. But please step back, reflect on how much we achieved with all the energy that was devoted to this subject last year, and please consider what we can do differently this year to become part of the solution, rather than just the problem.
I should start by saying I do not pretend to have all the answers, but I honestly hope I am able to contribute in some way to shapping a better situation for future years.
Establishing reliable statistics to base a case on is not going to be easy, or quick, hence the reason that everyone has avoided doing it to date.
Maybe running an RV census over a number of months, where we ask forum members to submit statistics for the site they are at could create a statistical base to work from.
These statistics could be submitted on a web page with site Id (use the camps site Ids), the number of RVs present that night, then break the number down into self contained, services dependent, power dependent, number of people, average daily spend, how long been there. This would mean walking around talking to people (good way to meet people). Clearly many sites would be too big to be able to gather the detail, on these sites gross details would be enough. Remember anything we manage to get is better than what we have today.
Recognise that we would only have a small sample each day, but that it would build up over time, and could be extrapolated into some meaningfull statistics.
I firmly believe there are some simple easy to implement answers out there, but that we as the party with the most to gain we need to participate in shapping our own future.
I am willing to participate, but please remember I am still working full time, so my resources are a little limited. I would like to hear from anyone else who would be interested in tossing ideas around in a smaller group, to establish a concept to bring back to the forum. I do not believe it would be constructive to waste everyones time working through this initial process.
Apologies for hijacking the Darwin debate, IF I get interest I promise I will bring it back as a stand alone thread.
-- Edited by Plendo on Friday 26th of April 2013 06:25:01 AM
When we were in Darwin we stayed out at the Polo Grounds, i know it was very dusty,but we were out most days spending money .So can someone please tell me if this spot is not available now.
"Darwin is a city that was voted by the Lonely Planet as one of the worlds top 10 must visit cities along with being named having two of Australias top 100 beaches"
http://www.darwin.nt.gov.au/media-centre/news/lord-mayors-message
The lord Mayor also commented on how friendly Darwin is to travellers.
Maybe now that Darwin accommodation businesses are riding the crest of a wave it isn't so crucial to be as welcoming to those who might not visit the most expensive accommodation and restaurants.
However tourism is enormously fickle and mineral prices can flux internationally affecting that source of visiting worker. Perhaps when the Lord Mayor's view of the less moneyed end of the tourist market becomes more public, along with the declared reluctance to provide economic facilities, Lonely Planet might review its positive comments about Darwin too. After all, there are many destinations the world over striving to increase their market share. There is recent press about grey nomads finding Southeast Asia destinations a real blast and cheaper.
If only farmers on the outskirts of towns and city's could marshall themselves into a group to take on local Councils including all the vested interests who will invariably attempt to block them, and start providing secure places i.e. fenced areas with adequate all weather road access for independant RV's and Motor Homes to park in safety with their peer groups....we dont need the majority of "benefits" over capitalised Caravan Parks provide and charge accordingly........
Brickies, if you are correct in your assertion then Caravan Parks should not complain as Grey Nomads supposedly mean little to them as a demographic group, which is why they cater to those with as you say, "pockets full of money"....how absurd....
Whatever you mean by your term "real tourists"....I think we Grey Nomads are the real deal tourists enjoying what Australia has to offer....and much to see is invariably free....stick to Movie World, Wet and Sexy or whatever its called and the others for your touristy kicks...but its not for us a group who will gain momentum with a voice as our numbers continue to increase.....then watch how Caravan Parks start to cater for separate unpowered/powered decent located sites at realistic fee when they see us all heading hopefully for the secure sites on the outskirts of towns as I suggest.....farmers with a voice on Councils will change Councils ideas driven by stiffling vested interests, for the benefit of all, as farmers realize they can divsersify their income streams.....your term "little money in our pockets" is not only demeaning but incorrect....we have proved as a group we will pay a "reasonable" fee for "reasonable value" service....
glad I'm not one of your Real Tourists...how boring...how sad...do they actually get to meet each other..or do they take their city attitudes with them and do not not even know their neighbour....
Come on farmers..make some money and enjoy the experience.....we dont ask for much....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 26th of April 2013 09:18:53 AM
Thanks Gerty, Brian Kelleher is also a committee member with a National RV Club, the ATCMCC.
See; http://www.atcmcc.org.au/aboutus.php I think Biggles belongs to this club.
Perhaps bodies like the NACC which I understand represent all the major Australia wide RV Clubs (eg; CMCA and others) could and are probably already doing something about it. The CMCA being the largest RV body in Australia also have the resources available.
If anyone is interested in following this up (I'm not) perhaps they should contact the NACC to bring this up at their meetings for investigation etc. My interest is knowing what the attitude of Darwin Council is towards Grey Nomads and I am waiting for the Mayors further feedback.
Thanks for your feedback on the matters in general Plendo, they are all related one way or the other.
-- Edited by Duh on Friday 26th of April 2013 10:21:12 AM
Same here Jon, I will wait for a further response from her other than what she as asked me to convey on a previous post.
I am sure that many of the matters complained about by some would be dealt with by the organisations mentioned which are better equipped and have the resources to do so.
I just want to make a comment about retirement, when I was working I thought I would have time to do lots of things when I retired, but it is surprising that this doesn't seem to happen, I don't know whether when you are working you are geared up to a higher level of action than when you are retired or what, and then slip down a few cogs afterwards, but still seem time poor, incredible as that may sound.
Or perhaps we find that after retirement we need more medical appointments than we did before and it is a never ending series of doctors and hospital and specialists appointments that seem to eat into our free time.
-- Edited by Duh on Friday 26th of April 2013 12:10:00 PM
This is a site where I found some statistics...
http://www.scer.gov.au/files/2012/03/National-Association-of-Caravan-Clubs2.pdf
I thought that maybe the case,but i could not see this happening up around Darwin , so it makes it a lot of difference .I own some land down around the coast here 1770/Angus Waters ,and i am going to go see local councile here re parking up for self contained RVs .I have a big Amish sheed on it but nothing else at the moment,as my heart says go back to WA after this project is finished here. But i want to know the strucyure / legal ramifications.and a 1000 other questions. So will be interesting to find out from council what it all is.
Regards Herbie.
-- Edited by herbie on Friday 26th of April 2013 05:16:49 PM
Hi Vic ..
Like I said earlier, I'll wait to hear what the mayor has to say .. I'll not pre-empt or second guess what will be said ..
and yes Vic .. I met Brian some years ago but haven't really become involved with the ATCMCC ..
I found their first rally that I planned to attend was a little over-priced for me at the time and never really got back with the group. Also a member of the CMCA but thats only for insurance purposes
Brian himself is a most pleasant, receptive and jovial person and would no doubt respond to anyone that would approach him on any topic ..
We both are also members of the HF Radio Club which I believe is second to none in Oz and also has its fair share of HAM users too (VK's) ..
Jon
Just may thoughts on why farmers would not be very interested in implementing setting up some of their land for use to us to park up on, for say between $10/20 per night.The red tape before they even made their first $ back would be just to expencive to even concider. Just to create a gravel track/ road into the area could be big bucks and then to clear the area and level it ,maybe even have to fece the area.Then we have all the crap that would need to be worked through regarding Main Roads departments ,due to trafic turning in and out of the site. The laws are so strong in regard to this. I know from setting up mine site access at one site in SA it took two years to work through just this stage before a single sod of dirt was turned over.Then the EPA will have to be involved and then that becomes another sarga in it self believe me i work with that dept every day.The councile would be dictating the terms also in what is required and whats not allowed.To even get permision to create all this from councile would be very strict.Then the naubouring land holders most likley would objest , due to a 100 resons why they do not want RVs parking near their property,due to dust/ noise/and upsetting their peace of paradise.Next the insurance costs along would be very expensive ,and you would need to cover your self to the hilt on this ,as you can bet your butt ,some one would trip over a rock or stick and see an open door to take a law suit out on the owner for not providing a safe place to camp. Once some one is taking money from another person (in this case to camp/)he then in turn has all sorts of legal responabilities to that person. The health department would also need to put their two bobs worth in regarding issues of health and safety.Doubt if a planning permit would get issued with out curb and chanelling / toilet/shower block/ even if us campers did not need them. The the issue is paying people to man all this inforstucure to keep it in some kind of safe condition.And because in this case we are talking about Darwin region , they really only have a shoulder period of 4/5 months per year, it would take a lot of years to see any profit returned back. And then the tax dept would want some of the money ,and that could change the farmers income tax structure altogether. So if i was a farmer i would not even entertain this idea...Also i would think the local c/van parks already set up in Darwin would be fighting the farmer to the end due to the fact as them having a case of unfiar competition. ....Oh if life was just that little bit less regulated we all would be so much happier.
As a 'farmer' living on rural/residential acreage with excellent eco-tourism potential and little $...heres my add.....
If I was to truly consider such an option as letting folk formally stay on the property for $ reimbursement, I know that the governance and legal requirements required to set up such a place versus the potential return on investment would pretty much IMMEDIATELY rule out 'public' space set aside for low $ tariffs like self-contained rigs.
IMHO, its pretty much the same outlay for zoning/town planning requirements and insurances and infrastructure etc whether the customer is a B&B/homestay or a BYO camper type. Difference is...truly, if you add a provided breakfast there is many more net $ to be had. So I wonder about the general idea that farmers might like to avail themselves of campers....
I dont wish to sound at all dismissive of others opinions (and Florinhill is a classic alternative example), my point as an acreage owner is to clarify a known part of this discussion
(EDIT: lots of folk spend time here for free...and often...though the do trend more towards a comfy inhouse bed etc
)
-- Edited by EllenajoeL on Friday 26th of April 2013 08:26:19 PM