Just listening to the ABC radio news and announced that so far this long week end Two people have been killed while towing caravans in separate incidents.One in Qld the Other in NSW and the third caravan accident in Victoria with injury sustained to the people.....They believe the Victorian accident may have been due to wind gusts...So many RVs on the road this year ,On our travels up to the Cape ,we noticed so many vans crabbing behind the tow vehicle, Bloody scary seeing that in front of you ,let a lone coming towards you.
dorian said
01:01 PM Jun 9, 2013
I'm convinced more than ever that a motorhome is the better option for me.
ozjohn said
01:22 PM Jun 9, 2013
A little wobble is quit noticible to an attentive drive, but more than often no wobble preceeds chaotic yaw. It just happens,BAM! You're being pulled from one side of the road to the other with zerro control except to hold tight on the steering wheel and reduce speed. Most chaotic yaw is caused by poor loading (especially with heavy items rear of the axles or on the rear bumber), Insufficient ball weight, Speed to high (especially for longer vans), low trailer and/or vehicle tyre pressure, wind gusts. Or any combination of the above. Has it happened to you? Maybe not, but keep in mind that it can happen to anyone of us at anytime and without warning. Decending hills at high speeds with low ball weights is a major contributor and should be avoided. While the Alko ESC won't eliminate yaw it quickly gets it under control by alternative braking of the trailer wheels and reducing speed. Nice to see that a number of manufactures are now fitting it to their new models. Cheers, Ozjohn.
-- Edited by ozjohn on Sunday 9th of June 2013 01:24:30 PM
10. to move sideways, diagonally, or obliquely, especially with short, abrupt bursts of speed; scuttle. 11. Aeronautics . (of an aircraft) to head partly into the wind to compensate for drift. 12. Nautical . to drift or advance with some movement sideways, especially when under tow.
GaryKelly said
03:32 PM Jun 9, 2013
I've never towed anything, not even a trailer, but I cannot understand how a driver can fail to notice the towed vehicle's instability. Doesn't it become apparent through the steering or the general behavior of the tug? A friend of mine involved in a serious accident towing a caravan on a straight road out in the sticks, with nothing apparently wrong, said he "suddenly" saw the van beside him before it rolled, taking the tug with it. I honestly can't believe there was no warning... nothing to indicate something was wrong.
Apprentice Nomad said
03:51 PM Jun 9, 2013
Its not always a problem with the driver. Some problems can occur like: Sudden sharp bend in the road, unexpected obstacles, lane changing, high winds, rain and adverse weather, buffetting and being overtaken by other vehicles, sudden braking, deceleration on steep declines, sudden avoidance of road user, animal, pedestrian or debris on road Poorly loaded caravan Low tyre pressures
We recently experienced this "crabbing" or swaying, and yes it was nerve racking. However, an experienced driver knows to not brake, but to drive out of the problem. However, even being experienced, I found it very difficult to control the vehicle. Thankfully we did not have an occurrence where there was another vehicle nearby.
There is a system called the AL-KO Electronic Stability COntrol that we looked at last week at the Caravan and Camping SHow Brisbane, which will prevent the crabbing occurring.
Just my thoughts And NO I dont work for the company Am a happily retired caravanner
Golddetectornomad said
04:11 PM Jun 9, 2013
I lost my best mate in 1981...he was driving on the Wellington Road S.A., when a Caravan got the wobbles and then Jack Knifed in front of him....he was driving behind the Van and was killed instantly...33 years old, and left wife and two small kids without a Dad....no such thing as an accident....the driver in front who was unhurt, could not control his Caravan at the speed he was travelling and on a quite narrow road with fatal devastating results....makes me fume when I see irresponsible/reckless towing of any form of trailer....Hoo Roo
Weedy Pigeon said
04:46 PM Jun 9, 2013
GaryKelly wrote:
I've never towed anything, not even a trailer, but I cannot understand how a driver can fail to notice the towed vehicle's instability. Doesn't it become apparent through the steering or the general behavior of the tug? A friend of mine involved in a serious accident towing a caravan on a straight road out in the sticks, with nothing apparently wrong, said he "suddenly" saw the van beside him before it rolled, taking the tug with it. I honestly can't believe there was no warning... nothing to indicate something was wrong.
Very good point. I think it's an indication of general driving behaviour and has a lot to do with the road toll. Even with our ridiculous speed restrictions, cameras every 50 meters, cops revenue raising behind every bush and endless government taxpayer funded ads and programs we still have drivers who are completely unaware of what's happening around them or their vehicles responses to different situations.
Dealing with customers in garages over 40+ years it gives one an insight into just how some drivers are completely disconnected with their vehicle or what they're towing. Seems as if they see people towing vans etc and hook one up to their vehicle and head off into the wild blue yonder assuming all will be OK. Of course when the s--t hits the fan it must be someone else's fault.
The classic case of letting things get too far of course is the habit of totally disregarding your gauges and realising your vehicle is getting hot when you smell something burning. Or disregarding severe vibration and driving with a delaminated tyre until it shreds itself, possibly causing an "accident".
Cloak said
04:49 PM Jun 9, 2013
We're most likely getting a 5th wheeler for the stability.
I have seen the aftermath of a van take a tug off the road at speed which was very sobering.
Cheers
Duh said
06:27 PM Jun 9, 2013
This is a public Coroners Report on one fatality in SA, a very sad event indeed, brings home the fact that towing is to be taken seriously. It is a pity the driver did not survive to tell his side of the story, see;
PS: When you click on the link, save first and then open the link....virus free....
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 9th of June 2013 09:03:40 PM
Fortunately we have only experienced a minor dose of the wobbles caused when van wheels dropped off bitumen and wind shift from a passing truck got us I applied van brake with hand control and accelerated tug we were lucky that time and our travel speed is matched to prevailing conditions but usually do not exceed 90Kph.
gooba53 said
10:24 PM Jun 9, 2013
What can you suggest to new to towing people? We are due to pick up our van mid July. We have booked into a caravan towing course but its not until the end of August. We read as much safety info as we can on this site, in books etc but there is nothing like experience, which we haven't got! We have to drive 3 hours from the dealership with no experience to our home. We have had Esc fitted but understand this isn't a sure fired get out if jail. I'm a bit worried to be honest!!
neilnruth said
11:12 PM Jun 9, 2013
Someone asked what was 'crabbing'. To my understanding it is when the car and caravan are not lined up well and towing straight. You should only be able to see one set of tyres in front of you. If it is crabbing the tyres are out of alignment. We agree - very scary to be following.
Gerty Dancer said
11:36 PM Jun 9, 2013
Best wishes with picking up your new van gooba53, its an exciting and nervous time!
Try to choose a day of the week or time when there will be less traffic for your drive home, make sure your towing mirrors are working well, drive it around a block or two to get the feel of it before you go out onto the main road if possible, and take it easy. Remember to swing wide at corners/roundabouts, brake earlier for lights etc. Parking it at home can be a challenge too... it was worse for us with a busy street, so we left it parallel parked in a side street till a quiet time of traffic then proceeded to back it uphill in the driveway and through the gates... phew!
It gets easier, and the towing course we did was extremely helpful. Confidence is good, over-confidence is scary.
Weedy Pigeon said
11:58 PM Jun 9, 2013
I think you should have about 10% of your weight on the towball. I can't remember if it's calculated on the weight forward of the axle or the weight of the towed item. We used to have to beef up a lot of rear suspensions for vehicles that towed vans and horse floats.. You'll soon know if there's too much weight rear of the axle as the car will be all over the place.
Onedodger said
12:03 AM Jun 10, 2013
gooba53 wrote:
What can you suggest to new to towing people? We are due to pick up our van mid July. We have booked into a caravan towing course but its not until the end of August. We read as much safety info as we can on this site, in books etc but there is nothing like experience, which we haven't got! We have to drive 3 hours from the dealership with no experience to our home. We have had Esc fitted but understand this isn't a sure fired get out if jail. I'm a bit worried to be honest!!
Gooba, when you get the van home look around for a towing course, there are a few about.
Perhaps you can get the course operators to give you the theory part before you pick it up. Just make enquiries.
mr glassies said
01:02 AM Jun 10, 2013
aussietravller
my thoughts exactly use the van to pull everything straight if i had my way i would have a brake button on the steering wheel .
a lot of people just jump on the brakes and make maters worse . but in saying that the new trailer brake setup is pretty good . i had to brake heavy coming home from nindy gully and both van and tug pulled up dead straight .
with the new colorado it cost $700 for the tow bar and $180 to get the computer spiked to tell it its gat a tow bar
dibs
rosco532 said
02:26 AM Jun 10, 2013
We passed a 4wd & caravan unit which was reduced to match-sticks yesterday on the way here to Charleville....The accident happened when the guys wife took over the wheel and tried to pass the road train pictured below....Firstly she was passing on a down hill straight stretch of road when she realized a motorbike was coming towards her so she braked...then thought...she was to far past the roadtrain so she had to carry on...then decided to speed up and try & get past...when she realized that she wasn't going to make it she hit the brakes then lost control.....
The road train driver said all he could see in his side mirror was the 4wd ...15ft off the ground with the caravan also flying through the air....
Not a pretty site.....
The 2nd pic demonstrates just how small we are compared to these big monsters on the road.
It amazes me why anyone would buy a caravan when they have no experience with towing. Buy a motorhome for goodness sake
gooba53 said
04:01 AM Jun 10, 2013
Gee! Thanks for the positive help.
The dog lady said
04:04 AM Jun 10, 2013
GaryKelly wrote:
I've never towed anything, not even a trailer, but I cannot understand how a driver can fail to notice the towed vehicle's instability. Doesn't it become apparent through the steering or the general behavior of the tug? A friend of mine involved in a serious accident towing a caravan on a straight road out in the sticks, with nothing apparently wrong, said he "suddenly" saw the van beside him before it rolled, taking the tug with it. I honestly can't believe there was no warning... nothing to indicate something was wrong.
Over the years I have towed caravans, trailers and, mostly, boats. I think that power steering and brakes may make it easier to "not notice" when your trailer is in trouble. I've never had an accident while towing, but a near miss many years ago convinced me that it is of paramount importance to have good quality tyres in good condition on your trailer, possibly even more important than those on the towing vehicle. Having said that, I've always hated towing, and now I won't even have a towbar fitted so that I have an excuse for not "helping out". I'm also getting old and grumpy enough to finally just say No when someone wants a favour I really don't want to do
Sheba said
05:48 AM Jun 10, 2013
Happywanderer wrote:
It amazes me why anyone would buy a caravan when they have no experience with towing.
Afraid I have to agree with Marj on this one. Some people seem to think that you just hook up the 'van behind you, and drive as normal. They have no idea how different it will be.
Cheers,
Sheba.
gooba53 said
05:55 AM Jun 10, 2013
I have got to admit I'm a bit confused. I know I asked for help. I said we were booked into a towing course. How did everyone else get experience? I want to be safe and keep other road users safe. That's why I asked. I guess I'm a softie and was expecting some encouragement like from Gerty Dancer.
Gerty Dancer said
04:27 PM Jun 10, 2013
Come on guys! Gooba asked for some practical advice here... surely theres somebody better experienced than me to give some tips to a beginner before they can get to a towing course?
Weedy Pigeon said
04:51 PM Jun 10, 2013
The best practical advice I can give you is to get the vendor of the van to tell you how much weight is on the draw bar. That tells you how much weight you'll have on your tow bar. If you hook it all up and the rear of your vehicle sags badly then you'll know whether you have too much weight up front or your suspension needs attention. If you take the van home and load too much weight behind the van axles you'll end up with the "crabbing" effect [ never heard it called that before but it seems to be the word of the moment ] At some stage you'll have to hook it onto your vehicle and drive off down the road. You can't come to any harm if you drive carefully and pay attention to the behaviour of the vehicle and the van. There's truck loads of info on the net about this topic.
gooba53 said
05:10 PM Jun 10, 2013
Thanks for everyone's opinions and help regarding my post. Please consider this part of the "more caravan accident" thread closed.
Happywanderer said
05:39 PM Jun 10, 2013
Sorry gooba if you think I was being too negative. Unfortunately not everyone will have the same point of view. We get all points of view on here. Enjoy your travels
Duh said
09:01 PM Jun 10, 2013
gooba53 wrote:
I have got to admit I'm a bit confused. I know I asked for help. I said we were booked into a towing course. How did everyone else get experience? I want to be safe and keep other road users safe. That's why I asked. I guess I'm a softie and was expecting some encouragement like from Gerty Dancer.
Gooba, I didn't do a towing course (however wish I had done, sure it would have made things a lot easier). Had a camper trailer first which gave me some towing experience, then two caravans later, go my experience "on the job" so to speak. Still not very good at backing whether a caravan or vehicle, so have to take that easy or get someone to back me in (with a caravan). But that is just me.
Just listening to the ABC radio news and announced that so far this long week end Two people have been killed while towing caravans in separate incidents.One in Qld the Other in NSW and the third caravan accident in Victoria with injury sustained to the people.....They believe the Victorian accident may have been due to wind gusts...So many RVs on the road this year ,On our travels up to the Cape ,we noticed so many vans crabbing behind the tow vehicle, Bloody scary seeing that in front of you ,let a lone coming towards you.
A little wobble is quit noticible to an attentive drive, but more than often no wobble preceeds chaotic yaw.
It just happens,BAM! You're being pulled from one side of the road to the other with zerro control except to hold tight on the steering wheel and reduce speed.
Most chaotic yaw is caused by poor loading (especially with heavy items rear of the axles or on the rear bumber), Insufficient ball weight, Speed to high (especially for longer vans), low trailer and/or vehicle tyre pressure, wind gusts.
Or any combination of the above.
Has it happened to you? Maybe not, but keep in mind that it can happen to anyone of us at anytime and without warning.
Decending hills at high speeds with low ball weights is a major contributor and should be avoided.
While the Alko ESC won't eliminate yaw it quickly gets it under control by alternative braking of the trailer wheels and reducing speed. Nice to see that a number of manufactures are now fitting it to their new models.
Cheers, Ozjohn.
-- Edited by ozjohn on Sunday 9th of June 2013 01:24:30 PM
10.
to move sideways, diagonally, or obliquely, especially with short, abrupt bursts of speed; scuttle.
11.
Aeronautics . (of an aircraft) to head partly into the wind to compensate for drift.
12.
Nautical . to drift or advance with some movement sideways, especially when under tow.
Some problems can occur like:
Sudden sharp bend in the road, unexpected obstacles, lane changing, high winds, rain and adverse weather, buffetting and being overtaken by other vehicles, sudden braking, deceleration on steep declines, sudden avoidance of road user, animal, pedestrian or debris on road
Poorly loaded caravan
Low tyre pressures
We recently experienced this "crabbing" or swaying, and yes it was nerve racking. However, an experienced driver knows to not brake, but to drive out of the problem. However, even being experienced, I found it very difficult to control the vehicle. Thankfully we did not have an occurrence where there was another vehicle nearby.
There is a system called the AL-KO Electronic Stability COntrol that we looked at last week at the Caravan and Camping SHow Brisbane, which will prevent the crabbing occurring.
Just my thoughts
And NO I dont work for the company
Am a happily retired caravanner
Very good point. I think it's an indication of general driving behaviour and has a lot to do with the road toll. Even with our ridiculous speed restrictions, cameras every 50 meters, cops revenue raising behind every bush and endless government taxpayer funded ads and programs we still have drivers who are completely unaware of what's happening around them or their vehicles responses to different situations.
Dealing with customers in garages over 40+ years it gives one an insight into just how some drivers are completely disconnected with their vehicle or what they're towing. Seems as if they see people towing vans etc and hook one up to their vehicle and head off into the wild blue yonder assuming all will be OK. Of course when the s--t hits the fan it must be someone else's fault.
The classic case of letting things get too far of course is the habit of totally disregarding your gauges and realising your vehicle is getting hot when you smell something burning. Or disregarding severe vibration and driving with a delaminated tyre until it shreds itself, possibly causing an "accident".
I have seen the aftermath of a van take a tug off the road at speed which was very sobering.
Cheers
This is a public Coroners Report on one fatality in SA, a very sad event indeed, brings home the fact that towing is to be taken seriously.
It is a pity the driver did not survive to tell his side of the story, see;
PS: When you click on the link, save first and then open the link....virus free....
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 9th of June 2013 09:03:40 PM
What can you suggest to new to towing people? We are due to pick up our van mid July. We have booked into a caravan towing course but its not until the end of August. We read as much safety info as we can on this site, in books etc but there is nothing like experience, which we haven't got! We have to drive 3 hours from the dealership with no experience to our home. We have had Esc fitted but understand this isn't a sure fired get out if jail. I'm a bit worried to be honest!!
Best wishes with picking up your new van gooba53, its an exciting and nervous time!
Try to choose a day of the week or time when there will be less traffic for your drive home, make sure your towing mirrors are working well, drive it around a block or two to get the feel of it before you go out onto the main road if possible, and take it easy. Remember to swing wide at corners/roundabouts, brake earlier for lights etc. Parking it at home can be a challenge too... it was worse for us with a busy street, so we left it parallel parked in a side street till a quiet time of traffic then proceeded to back it uphill in the driveway and through the gates... phew!
It gets easier, and the towing course we did was extremely helpful. Confidence is good, over-confidence is scary.
You'll soon know if there's too much weight rear of the axle as the car will be all over the place.
Gooba, when you get the van home look around for a towing course, there are a few about.
Perhaps you can get the course operators to give you the theory part before you pick it up. Just make enquiries.
my thoughts exactly use the van to pull everything straight if i had my way i would have a brake button on the steering wheel .
a lot of people just jump on the brakes and make maters worse . but in saying that the new trailer brake setup is pretty good . i had to brake heavy coming home from nindy gully and both van and tug pulled up dead straight .
with the new colorado it cost $700 for the tow bar and $180 to get the computer spiked to tell it its gat a tow bar
dibs
We passed a 4wd & caravan unit which was reduced to match-sticks yesterday on the way here to Charleville....The accident happened when the guys wife took over the wheel and tried to pass the road train pictured below....Firstly she was passing on a down hill straight stretch of road when she realized a motorbike was coming towards her so she braked...then thought...she was to far past the roadtrain so she had to carry on...then decided to speed up and try & get past...when she realized that she wasn't going to make it she hit the brakes then lost control.....
The road train driver said all he could see in his side mirror was the 4wd ...15ft off the ground with the caravan also flying through the air....
Not a pretty site.....
The 2nd pic demonstrates just how small we are compared to these big monsters on the road.
Lucky as hell...No-one was killed
Well!!!! Got to absorb all this !
Gee! Thanks for the positive help.
Over the years I have towed caravans, trailers and, mostly, boats. I think that power steering and brakes may make it easier to "not notice" when your trailer is in trouble. I've never had an accident while towing, but a near miss many years ago convinced me that it is of paramount importance to have good quality tyres in good condition on your trailer, possibly even more important than those on the towing vehicle. Having said that, I've always hated towing, and now I won't even have a towbar fitted so that I have an excuse for not "helping out". I'm also getting old and grumpy enough to finally just say No when someone wants a favour I really don't want to do
I have got to admit I'm a bit confused. I know I asked for help. I said we were booked into a towing course. How did everyone else get experience? I want to be safe and keep other road users safe. That's why I asked. I guess I'm a softie and was expecting some encouragement like from Gerty Dancer.
If you take the van home and load too much weight behind the van axles you'll end up with the "crabbing" effect [ never heard it called that before but it seems to be the word of the moment ]
At some stage you'll have to hook it onto your vehicle and drive off down the road. You can't come to any harm if you drive carefully and pay attention to the behaviour of the vehicle and the van.
There's truck loads of info on the net about this topic.
Thanks for everyone's opinions and help regarding my post. Please consider this part of the "more caravan accident" thread closed.
Unfortunately not everyone will have the same point of view.
We get all points of view on here.
Enjoy your travels
Gooba, I didn't do a towing course (however wish I had done, sure it would have made things a lot easier). Had a camper trailer first which gave me some towing experience, then two caravans later, go my experience "on the job" so to speak. Still not very good at backing whether a caravan or vehicle, so have to take that easy or get someone to back me in (with a caravan). But that is just me.