Having lunch yesterday with friends, the conversations included caravans, camping, towing etc.
We touched on towing in cruise control; where my mate said: "you should never" tow in cruise control; "Not good for the gear box"
So here is my dilemma; I always tow in cruise control, unless in very hilly country.
I have a 2013, 200 Series Landcruiser, V8, twin turbo, Diesel with 210000 Kms on the clock. Approx 100000 Kms towing in cruise control.
The van is 21ft, tandem axle, and weights 2.5 T loaded. And I mostly sit on 100km/hr on good flat straight roads. Home state is Western Australia.
I would appreciate your thoughts on this topic. And I guess the question is; should I change my driving technique, given that I will not be updating to a new cruiser unless I win Lotto.
I will look forward to replies.
Regards.
Hetho.
BAZZA44 said
10:14 AM Nov 25, 2019
I started to answer but then realized that you did not say what gear you have locked up. I will assume you are in overdrive. If so then the answer is your mate is correct.
If in overdrive the auto will be changing in and out of overdrive, trying to maintain the speed you have set, locking and unlocking the torque converter, thus producing heat. Heat will kill your auto.
I suggest you talk to an auto transmission repair mechanic and get the correct opinion. With my 5 speed auto I drive in 4th, direct drive.
Barry
Craig1 said
10:20 AM Nov 25, 2019
Hetho,
95%ish of Lcool members seem to reckon S4 gear is best, S5 on a gentle downslope. I guess you could select that and then start cruise. But, what happens if you sneeze or blink in cruise?, to me it could be approaching a disaster. But then you have done a lot more km than me without any problems, so cannot argue too much.
Hetho said
10:51 AM Nov 25, 2019
Hi Barry.
Thanks for the reply. I didn't mention the gears, sorry.
However, I believe that the my 200 series is a 6 speed auto, but will only change into 6th at 120kms/hr. (unloaded), in auto mode.
I have a technique that can get it into 6th under 120.
When towing in Cruise, in drive; I`m in 5th, and will change down reasonably quickly when going uphill to 4th, then 3rd; and just as quickly change back up when over the top and going down hill. But on the flat I'm in 5th.
Regards.
Hetho.
Bobdown said
03:20 PM Nov 25, 2019
Hi Hetho,
My 2015 200/V8 twin turbo diesel LC has done 80,000 k's towing 3200 kg in cruise control in Drive gear. From WA also,I've been across Nullarbor 10 times, doing 100 kph in cruise @ 1780 rpm.....just ticking over.
After reading an article about towing in cruise, I tried in S4 on a windy day doing about 95 kph and while it revved higher (2200) it actually got better fuel consumption, around 19 lph against 22 lph.
Will read other posts with interest as it's a subject I thought about, but not convinced either way.
Cheers Bob
Rod Mac said
04:06 PM Nov 25, 2019
My thoughts.
Rule one, never use cruise control in wet weather, towing or not, why ? in the event of slippage due to aqua planning the cruise control can sense a slower than the set speed and will try to accelerate back to the set speed, if you are not quick enough to cancel the cruise control you could be in a whole lot of trouble.
True story, I had a friend who in his own words told me of his rollover due to his car slipping off the bitumen onto the dirt due to a grain spill, and the subsequent slowing down and sideway position of the car caused the cruise control to kick in and then it accelerated the car across the road, and before he could correct everything, he was upside down, be warned.
As for towing I have done both, with and without cruise control like many others.
I think you should judge to use cruise control as the conditions suit, flat roads and or tail wind, either in'D' or use the transmission in 'sport/manual' mode.
The reality of it all is that driving is not a 'set and forget' operation when towing and we all must maintain vigilance of the surrounds and driving conditions.
regards
Rod Mac
yobarr said
04:53 PM Nov 25, 2019
Rod Mac wrote:
My thoughts.
Rule one, never use cruise control in wet weather, towing or not, why ? in the event of slippage due to aqua planning the cruise control can sense a slower than the set speed and will try to accelerate back to the set speed, if you are not quick enough to cancel the cruise control you could be in a whole lot of trouble.
regards.Rod Mac
Absolutely true! My "play" car is a 530hp Commodore,and despite being warned,my partner at the time set the cruise control whilst driving in wet conditions.Long story short,the left front wheel hit a puddle of water,the power came on,and she very quickly she found herself facing the direction from where she had come! Only ever happened once though! Cheers
yobarr said
05:02 PM Nov 25, 2019
Bobdown wrote:
Hi Hetho,
My 2015 200/V8 twin turbo diesel LC has done 80,000 k's towing 3200 kg in cruise control in Drive gear. From WA also,I've been across Nullarbor 10 times, doing 100 kph in cruise @ 1780 rpm.....just ticking over. After reading an article about towing in cruise, I tried in S4 on a windy day doing about 95 kph and while it revved higher (2200) it actually got better fuel consumption, around 19 lph against 22 lph. Will read other posts with interest as it's a subject I thought about, but not convinced either way. Cheers Bob
And keeping the revs up is better for water temperature,oil temperature,and fuel temperature.Thats why the 79 does so well,not reaching 100km/hr until about 2250-2300rpm...Cheers
Hetho said
10:03 PM Nov 25, 2019
Thank you all for the replies, I especially appreciated those who kept on topic. Many thanks.
Regards.
Hetho.
Dougwe said
07:46 AM Nov 26, 2019
G'day Gary,
I use cruise control while in 5th gear only and only on open roads. Never built up areas or even if the open road is busy, no way. I try to stay as safe as possible at all times. I have a six speed auto with selective shift and tow mostly in selective shift, I can hold it in a gear suitable for the moment. When in road works or built up areas I leave it in auto.
I think I also stayed 'on topic' for you. As you would know I don't go 'off topic' Not me, never
Hope you are well.
Iva Biggen said
08:42 AM Nov 26, 2019
Hi Hetho,
My son has a 2014 Toyota LC turbo diesel and he tows a van of around 3100kg. He tows in selective 5Th unless, like Doug, the situation calls for another gear. I have done one long trip with him from western Victoria to North Queensland and he uses cruise control only when the going is reasonably easy. He has fitted his vehicle with a torque converter lock up kit to prevent the flaring from gear to gear that the Toyotas are common for of in standard form. With the converter locked above 80 kph he manages to hold 5th gear without flaring and it gives him reasonable economy for the weight of the unit. He has done about 100,000 Klms in the Toyota and although not all towing his transmission is fine. He has a scan gauge and he monitors transmission temperature pretty closely when he is towing and the lock up kit manages to keep the transmission oil temperature much cooler than it did before the kit was fitted. Before the kit he used 4th gear a lot mor than he used 5th and I should add that he tends to tow around the 90 to 95 kph speed.
To answer your question of should you change your driving technique I would suggest that while towing stay out of D and selecting either 4th or 5th all should be ok, but a converter lock up kit is not that expensive in the scheme of things and will improve both fuel consumption and vehicle driveability. The kit of course, would be your choice but a scan gauge that can monitor transmission temperature is something that would be very helpful. My son by his trade, is a motor mechanic and he is also quite experienced in road transport and truck operation. He also often quotes subjects from the Toyota Forum where they cover the subject of towing quite extensively.
A post on here is generally not even interesting without a rambling off topic rant so I might add my bit that while driving my little old Mitsubishi ute and towing in the hills my left leg gets really sore and aches and my cruise control cuts out when I put my foot on the clutch and I have to put fuel in it at daily intervals when I am towing distances but the revs remain high when I forget to change from third to fourth and I never tow in 5th because unlike a 79 series the overdrive in the gearbox is off the back of the box and will fail if used in this way and I never let female friends drive it in the rain just in case Mitsi misbehaves.
Now that is one big sentence without any punctuation or full stops so that should fit in quite well in the off topic section.
-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Tuesday 26th of November 2019 08:44:45 AM
-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Tuesday 26th of November 2019 08:47:01 AM
Trevor law said
09:56 AM Nov 26, 2019
X2
Hetho said
10:09 AM Nov 26, 2019
Thanks Dougwe, Ivan and Trevor. I appreciate you comments and input.
Regards.
Hetho
Stretch60 said
06:49 AM Nov 27, 2019
Must be a land cruiser thing. My 2018 v6 diesel 8spd Amorok performs fantastic in cruise. With careful monitoring I never have it hunting between gears and sometimes assist in manual mode IF the gradient is very steep. Benefit of modern technology. Van weighs in at approx 2900kg.
Radar said
08:32 AM Nov 27, 2019
Stretch60 wrote:
Must be a land cruiser thing. My 2018 v6 diesel 8spd Amorok performs fantastic in cruise. With careful monitoring I never have it hunting between gears and sometimes assist in manual mode IF the gradient is very steep. Benefit of modern technology. Van weighs in at approx 2900kg.
We better leave this subject to Land Cruiser owners.
Our V6 Navara works well in cruise control 110000 kilometers but on a reason inter state tour had a code come up on the dash which was not good. After several phone calls to various mechanical people, ie. Our regular service person, a respected auto guy, a friend of a friend and finally a Nissan Technician phones us back from Broken Hill. Ask a few question, gross weight of car and caravan? 5.5 tonnes, what gears are you using in the auto?, like "D" for drive I told him. He did ask a few more question, those were the main ones.
The S,,,,,,,t near come though phone and gave me the biggest dressing down. Short answer, drive the Navara in manual mode to 5th direct (our car is 7 speed auto). Now done 123000 kilometers and all good. Still maintaining around the 16 litres to the 100 ks.
markf said
10:08 AM Nov 27, 2019
I use cruise control as much as I can considering the road and traffic conditions. Mine's a manual though and as soon as the engine starts to work hard I change down to 4th in an effort to "protect" fifth gear. I'm in a manual Disco 2 Td5.
Relative of ours managed to destroy a brand new gearbox in about 300km by towing a trailer with a large frontal area in an auto Falcon wagon in ECON mode on the cruise control. Torque converter must have been slipping all the way from Ballarat to Traralgon. The gearbox repairer filled him in on how to make the gearbox last longer. Select a gear that allows the TC to lock up, use sport mode, do not use cruise control and use gear selection and right foot to keep the TC locked up.
I'd suggest that road conditions and traffic are the most important considerations though. Only you can know whether or not you feel that it's OK to use it.
There ya go. I've very carefully avoided answering the question...
-- Edited by markf on Wednesday 27th of November 2019 10:08:28 AM
Iva Biggen said
10:08 AM Nov 27, 2019
I am waiting in hope that at some time my son may want to update his Cruiser and I might just get first option on it.
A little while ago I was thinking of updating my old Mitsubishi but sort of decided that it was a lot of money for a newer small Aussie ute to gain nothing really but an auto trans.
The posts following mine above just go to show how many different transmissions are in these vehicles and the fact that if used incorrectly the transmission temperatures will increase to disturbing levels. That what was probably the reason for your light coming on Radar.
I was amazed how hot the transmission got on my sons Cruiser before he fitted the lock up kit. The gauge to monitor the temp in the transmission is a must.
I have helped him with some of the work he has done on his Cruiser and most things are simple. The Scanguage just plugged into the Diagnosis connection under the dashboard.
I think to drive in the selected gear rather than D is generally what is recommended and the use of cruise control is up to personal choice although again my son says he gets better economy when driving it with his right foot.
Go with what the manufacturer suggests is probably the best suggestion if we are generalising.
Mamil said
11:15 PM Nov 27, 2019
Interesting discussion, and something I'd never thought about. My question is whether it's common across all autos for the torque converter to slip in higher gears, or is this problem specific to some models only? If so, what's the key to getting the torque converter to lock up, assuming I can't get an accessory torque lock up kit for my car? Thanks.
Iva Biggen said
08:40 AM Nov 28, 2019
Mamil wrote:
Interesting discussion, and something I'd never thought about. My question is whether it's common across all autos for the torque converter to slip in higher gears, or is this problem specific to some models only? If so, what's the key to getting the torque converter to lock up, assuming I can't get an accessory torque lock up kit for my car? Thanks.
Many auto transmissions do not lock up if in D and are travelling at low speeds. Once a designed speed is reached they will lock up.
This condition is extremely variable between transmission types and even vehicle manufacturers. From what I understand the lock up function can be controlled by the cars computer to suit exactly what the manufacturer wants.
With the Toyota 200 series the earlier models from what I believe by my sons comments were notorious for not locking up until a speed which exceeded our National Highway limit so you were screwed with driving in D on say most of the Bruce Highway where the limit is only 100.kph.
When Toyota designed their car they werent much interested in the Aussie market because of its comparative size and it is only when clients started requesting that something be done was when they bought out a dealer modification.
Progressively Toyota have made their transmission work much better than say pre 2014 models and I do believe that the later ones can achieve lock up at a lower speed.
With many auto transmissions when you select a gear from the S range it will selectively lock the converter but again this is purely at the whim of the manufacturer. Their decision is based around a lot of variables, driveability and fuel consumption are probably the two most important.
Not many manufacturers care about their vehicles performance while towing even though most of them will be quick to point out that their model can tow 3.5 tonnes.
So in short we dont know what sort of vehicle you own but to drive in a selected S gear to suit road speed and conditions is much better for the transmission than to have it in D when pulling loads.
To Answer your questions yes it may be that an auto will slip in the converter in higher gears at lower speeds.
The best place for information regarding your particular model vehicle would be on a dedicated brand forum. My son uses the LCool forum which is abound with good information. This is generally better than most dealer workshop information unless you strike a good one.
If you let us know your vehicle type and model on here there is a good chance a member will have the same vehicle and offer good sound advice for you.
Not all vehicles need or even benefit from lock up kits as some manufacturers have them set to work in most situations.
Good luck with it, I hope this helps.
Rob Driver said
11:26 AM Nov 28, 2019
Hi Ivan, Your post above would be one of best descriptions I have seen or heard of how transmissions and locked torque convertors work. I am an avid fan of LCool and the info on there is amazing. I have a 2014 Cruiser and I had a lock up kit fitted. Best thing I have done to it There are reports that the later models are much better than the vehicles manufactured before 2015.
To the Op
As many have said Cruise control is an option to use when road and traffic conditions are good but I find that driving with the accelerator pedal does generally give me better economy. Out in the west where the roads are long, flat and straight I use it just for comfort of the right leg.
Cheers
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Thursday 28th of November 2019 11:27:50 AM
markf said
11:35 AM Nov 28, 2019
One thing to be aware of is that when you are accelerating from, say, 80kph, up to the speed limit of say 110kph using the cruise control some cars, like mine, use full, wide open throttle whilst others use a much more gentle approach. The full throttle strategy could be a real concern in slippery conditions. Fortunately the old Td5 is not a rocket ship..
Mamil said
08:50 PM Nov 28, 2019
Iva Biggen wrote:
Mamil wrote:
Interesting discussion, and something I'd never thought about. My question is whether it's common across all autos for the torque converter to slip in higher gears, or is this problem specific to some models only? If so, what's the key to getting the torque converter to lock up, assuming I can't get an accessory torque lock up kit for my car? Thanks.
Many auto transmissions do not lock up if in D and are travelling at low speeds. Once a designed speed is reached they will lock up.
This condition is extremely variable between transmission types and even vehicle manufacturers. From what I understand the lock up function can be controlled by the cars computer to suit exactly what the manufacturer wants.
With the Toyota 200 series the earlier models from what I believe by my sons comments were notorious for not locking up until a speed which exceeded our National Highway limit so you were screwed with driving in D on say most of the Bruce Highway where the limit is only 100.kph.
When Toyota designed their car they werent much interested in the Aussie market because of its comparative size and it is only when clients started requesting that something be done was when they bought out a dealer modification.
Progressively Toyota have made their transmission work much better than say pre 2014 models and I do believe that the later ones can achieve lock up at a lower speed.
With many auto transmissions when you select a gear from the S range it will selectively lock the converter but again this is purely at the whim of the manufacturer. Their decision is based around a lot of variables, driveability and fuel consumption are probably the two most important.
Not many manufacturers care about their vehicles performance while towing even though most of them will be quick to point out that their model can tow 3.5 tonnes.
So in short we dont know what sort of vehicle you own but to drive in a selected S gear to suit road speed and conditions is much better for the transmission than to have it in D when pulling loads.
To Answer your questions yes it may be that an auto will slip in the converter in higher gears at lower speeds.
The best place for information regarding your particular model vehicle would be on a dedicated brand forum. My son uses the LCool forum which is abound with good information. This is generally better than most dealer workshop information unless you strike a good one.
If you let us know your vehicle type and model on here there is a good chance a member will have the same vehicle and offer good sound advice for you.
Not all vehicles need or even benefit from lock up kits as some manufacturers have them set to work in most situations.
Good luck with it, I hope this helps.
Thanks Ivan, that is very helpful.
My vehicle is a Landrover Discovery Sport with a ZF9-HP transmission. It's unlikely anyone else has one on here as it's more popular with soccer mums than grey nomads I've found, although Whenarewethere with his Freelander may have a similar setup, but he doesn't tow with his. Anyway, I will try a Landrover specific forum to learn more as you suggest.
Iva Biggen said
09:11 PM Nov 28, 2019
Yes Mamil, different vehicle manufacturers do share the same transmissions but their respective vehicle computers set their operating peramaters..
I can not help you with a vehicle specific forum but I would almost be positive that there will be a forum that includes your vehicle.
Are you having trouble or are you doubting that your vehicle is operating correctly?
Lets hope that there is a member on here that tows with the same vehicle or maybe a member that knows of a forum.
Good luck mate
Mamil said
11:23 PM Nov 28, 2019
Iva Biggen wrote:
Yes Mamil, different vehicle manufacturers do share the same transmissions but their respective vehicle computers set their operating peramaters..
I can not help you with a vehicle specific forum but I would almost be positive that there will be a forum that includes your vehicle.
Are you having trouble or are you doubting that your vehicle is operating correctly?
Lets hope that there is a member on here that tows with the same vehicle or maybe a member that knows of a forum.
Good luck mate
Hi Ivan, I took your advice and asked the question on a LandRover Forum and the consensus seems to be that the ZF 9sp gearbox I have does not suffer from this issue. Thanks for your help.
Iva Biggen said
11:45 PM Nov 28, 2019
No worries Mamil,
Happy motoring.
Sarco Harris said
09:44 PM Nov 29, 2019
I have a 2017 Pajero (NX) and nearly always tow (and for that matter, drive) using cruise control as required.
While I tow a camper trailer (Vista RV XL) it is only about 1800Kg loaded.
I also have an after market torque convertor lock up kit installed (AutoMate made by MM4X4 in Adelaide). Which can be turned on and off as required by a simple push button switch.
With the standard Pajero, even when not towing, the torque convertor locks and unlocks as required when driving in D depending on a variety of parameters (Eg hills, speed etc.) and in some circumstances, like virtually every other auto box, is designed to slip.
When towing it is recommended (by the manufacturer) to tow in 4H and in 4th gear utilising the sports shift. This is to keep transmission oil temperatures down and to reduce fuel consumption. It does work.
With the AutoMate, even when not towing (noting I live in central Vic so virtually all driving is highway speeds), I leave it turned on. It effectively electronically, makes the gearbox work as a manual, by maintaining torque convertor lockup and actually changing the sports shift up and down as required, even though the shift is actually in D.
This definitely improves fuel consumption, both towing and in general driving. It is not a huge reduction, but it is about 2lt/100km. The big advantage is when towing, it also noticeably improves fuel consumption, but just as importantly keeps the transmission temperature down as the locking, unlocking and slipping of the torque convertor is eliminated so the heat is kept down.
Sarco
jegog said
05:50 PM Nov 30, 2019
Aqua planing is a pheromone only exhibited by rear drive vehicles, and mostly occurs after applying and releasing the brakes.
Theoretically if you drive long enough through water the front wheels will slow down start aqua planing, or if you have bald tyres. But tyre manufacturers design tyres to prevent aqua planing.
But even then the cruise controller only monitors driven wheels to set the speed.
And should the cruise controller ever try to increase the speed while aqua planing, torque would be applied to only the rear wheels.
Aqua planing affects steering and braking.
I have experienced the aqua planing effect in deep, new, wet, snow in Norway when the wrong grease was packed into the front wheel bearings and the grease dripped down onto the brake shoes and caused the brakes to seize.
Knight said
10:30 AM Dec 1, 2019
Isuzu recommend towing in D for Drive and allow the transmission lock system to do its job.
Greg 1 said
01:23 AM Dec 2, 2019
Always tow in D and with cruise control unless I am in hills or the conditions are not suitable such as very wet weather.
Never had an issue with any of my vehicles.
Tinggu said
05:05 PM Dec 3, 2019
jegog wrote:
Aqua planing is a pheromone only exhibited by rear drive vehicles, and mostly occurs after applying and releasing the brakes.
I dispute that comment "only rear drive vehicles" Our '96 LR Defender had 15" fat sand tyres when we bought it. It would aquaplane in any puddle. Changed back to 16" LR rims with standard skinny tyres, never had a problem after.
Good Morning All.
Having lunch yesterday with friends, the conversations included caravans, camping, towing etc.
We touched on towing in cruise control; where my mate said: "you should never" tow in cruise control; "Not good for the gear box"
So here is my dilemma; I always tow in cruise control, unless in very hilly country.
I have a 2013, 200 Series Landcruiser, V8, twin turbo, Diesel with 210000 Kms on the clock. Approx 100000 Kms towing in cruise control.
The van is 21ft, tandem axle, and weights 2.5 T loaded. And I mostly sit on 100km/hr on good flat straight roads. Home state is Western Australia.
I would appreciate your thoughts on this topic. And I guess the question is; should I change my driving technique, given that I will not be updating to a new cruiser unless I win Lotto.
I will look forward to replies.
Regards.
Hetho.
If in overdrive the auto will be changing in and out of overdrive, trying to maintain the speed you have set, locking and unlocking the torque converter, thus producing heat. Heat will kill your auto.
I suggest you talk to an auto transmission repair mechanic and get the correct opinion. With my 5 speed auto I drive in 4th, direct drive.
Barry
95%ish of Lcool members seem to reckon S4 gear is best, S5 on a gentle downslope. I guess you could select that and then start cruise. But, what happens if you sneeze or blink in cruise?, to me it could be approaching a disaster. But then you have done a lot more km than me without any problems, so cannot argue too much.
Hi Barry.
Thanks for the reply. I didn't mention the gears, sorry.
However, I believe that the my 200 series is a 6 speed auto, but will only change into 6th at 120kms/hr. (unloaded), in auto mode.
I have a technique that can get it into 6th under 120.
When towing in Cruise, in drive; I`m in 5th, and will change down reasonably quickly when going uphill to 4th, then 3rd; and just as quickly change back up when over the top and going down hill. But on the flat I'm in 5th.
Regards.
Hetho.
My 2015 200/V8 twin turbo diesel LC has done 80,000 k's towing 3200 kg in cruise control in Drive gear. From WA also,I've been across Nullarbor 10 times, doing 100 kph in cruise @ 1780 rpm.....just ticking over.
After reading an article about towing in cruise, I tried in S4 on a windy day doing about 95 kph and while it revved higher (2200) it actually got better fuel consumption, around 19 lph against 22 lph.
Will read other posts with interest as it's a subject I thought about, but not convinced either way.
Cheers Bob
My thoughts.
Rule one, never use cruise control in wet weather, towing or not, why ? in the event of slippage due to aqua planning the cruise control can sense a slower than the set speed and will try to accelerate back to the set speed, if you are not quick enough to cancel the cruise control you could be in a whole lot of trouble.
True story, I had a friend who in his own words told me of his rollover due to his car slipping off the bitumen onto the dirt due to a grain spill, and the subsequent slowing down and sideway position of the car caused the cruise control to kick in and then it accelerated the car across the road, and before he could correct everything, he was upside down, be warned.
As for towing I have done both, with and without cruise control like many others.
I think you should judge to use cruise control as the conditions suit, flat roads and or tail wind, either in'D' or use the transmission in 'sport/manual' mode.
The reality of it all is that driving is not a 'set and forget' operation when towing and we all must maintain vigilance of the surrounds and driving conditions.
regards
Rod Mac
Absolutely true! My "play" car is a 530hp Commodore,and despite being warned,my partner at the time set the cruise control whilst driving in wet conditions.Long story short,the left front wheel hit a puddle of water,the power came on,and she very quickly she found herself facing the direction from where she had come! Only ever happened once though! Cheers
And keeping the revs up is better for water temperature,oil temperature,and fuel temperature.Thats why the 79 does so well,not reaching 100km/hr until about 2250-2300rpm...Cheers
Thank you all for the replies, I especially appreciated those who kept on topic. Many thanks.
Regards.
Hetho.
G'day Gary,
Not me, never 
I use cruise control while in 5th gear only and only on open roads. Never built up areas or even if the open road is busy, no way. I try to stay as safe as possible at all times. I have a six speed auto with selective shift and tow mostly in selective shift, I can hold it in a gear suitable for the moment. When in road works or built up areas I leave it in auto.
I think I also stayed 'on topic' for you. As you would know I don't go 'off topic'
Hope you are well.
Hi Hetho,
My son has a 2014 Toyota LC turbo diesel and he tows a van of around 3100kg.
He tows in selective 5Th unless, like Doug, the situation calls for another gear.
I have done one long trip with him from western Victoria to North Queensland and he uses cruise control only when the going is reasonably easy.
He has fitted his vehicle with a torque converter lock up kit to prevent the flaring from gear to gear that the Toyotas are common for of in standard form.
With the converter locked above 80 kph he manages to hold 5th gear without flaring and it gives him reasonable economy for the weight of the unit.
He has done about 100,000 Klms in the Toyota and although not all towing his transmission is fine.
He has a scan gauge and he monitors transmission temperature pretty closely when he is towing and the lock up kit manages to keep the transmission oil temperature much cooler than it did before the kit was fitted.
Before the kit he used 4th gear a lot mor than he used 5th and I should add that he tends to tow around the 90 to 95 kph speed.
To answer your question of should you change your driving technique I would suggest that while towing stay out of D and selecting either 4th or 5th all should be ok, but a converter lock up kit is not that expensive in the scheme of things and will improve both fuel consumption and vehicle driveability. The kit of course, would be your choice but a scan gauge that can monitor transmission temperature is something that would be very helpful.
My son by his trade, is a motor mechanic and he is also quite experienced in road transport and truck operation.
He also often quotes subjects from the Toyota Forum where they cover the subject of towing quite extensively.
A post on here is generally not even interesting without a rambling off topic rant so I might add my bit that while driving my little old Mitsubishi ute and towing in the hills my left leg gets really sore and aches and my cruise control cuts out when I put my foot on the clutch and I have to put fuel in it at daily intervals when I am towing distances but the revs remain high when I forget to change from third to fourth and I never tow in 5th because unlike a 79 series the overdrive in the gearbox is off the back of the box and will fail if used in this way and I never let female friends drive it in the rain just in case Mitsi misbehaves.
Now that is one big sentence without any punctuation or full stops so that should fit in quite well in the off topic section.
-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Tuesday 26th of November 2019 08:44:45 AM
-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Tuesday 26th of November 2019 08:47:01 AM
X2
Thanks Dougwe, Ivan and Trevor. I appreciate you comments and input.
Regards.
Hetho
We better leave this subject to Land Cruiser owners.
Our V6 Navara works well in cruise control 110000 kilometers but on a reason inter state tour had a code come up on the dash which was not good. After several phone calls to various mechanical people, ie. Our regular service person, a respected auto guy, a friend of a friend and finally a Nissan Technician phones us back from Broken Hill. Ask a few question, gross weight of car and caravan? 5.5 tonnes, what gears are you using in the auto?, like "D" for drive I told him. He did ask a few more question, those were the main ones.
The S,,,,,,,t near come though phone and gave me the biggest dressing down. Short answer, drive the Navara in manual mode to 5th direct (our car is 7 speed auto). Now done 123000 kilometers and all good. Still maintaining around the 16 litres to the 100 ks.
I use cruise control as much as I can considering the road and traffic conditions. Mine's a manual though and as soon as the engine starts to work hard I change down to 4th in an effort to "protect" fifth gear. I'm in a manual Disco 2 Td5.
Relative of ours managed to destroy a brand new gearbox in about 300km by towing a trailer with a large frontal area in an auto Falcon wagon in ECON mode on the cruise control. Torque converter must have been slipping all the way from Ballarat to Traralgon. The gearbox repairer filled him in on how to make the gearbox last longer. Select a gear that allows the TC to lock up, use sport mode, do not use cruise control and use gear selection and right foot to keep the TC locked up.
I'd suggest that road conditions and traffic are the most important considerations though. Only you can know whether or not you feel that it's OK to use it.
There ya go. I've very carefully avoided answering the question...
-- Edited by markf on Wednesday 27th of November 2019 10:08:28 AM
A little while ago I was thinking of updating my old Mitsubishi but sort of decided that it was a lot of money for a newer small Aussie ute to gain nothing really but an auto trans.
The posts following mine above just go to show how many different transmissions are in these vehicles and the fact that if used incorrectly the transmission temperatures will increase to disturbing levels. That what was probably the reason for your light coming on Radar.
I was amazed how hot the transmission got on my sons Cruiser before he fitted the lock up kit. The gauge to monitor the temp in the transmission is a must.
I have helped him with some of the work he has done on his Cruiser and most things are simple. The Scanguage just plugged into the Diagnosis connection under the dashboard.
I think to drive in the selected gear rather than D is generally what is recommended and the use of cruise control is up to personal choice although again my son says he gets better economy when driving it with his right foot.
Go with what the manufacturer suggests is probably the best suggestion if we are generalising.
Many auto transmissions do not lock up if in D and are travelling at low speeds. Once a designed speed is reached they will lock up.
This condition is extremely variable between transmission types and even vehicle manufacturers. From what I understand the lock up function can be controlled by the cars computer to suit exactly what the manufacturer wants.
With the Toyota 200 series the earlier models from what I believe by my sons comments were notorious for not locking up until a speed which exceeded our National Highway limit so you were screwed with driving in D on say most of the Bruce Highway where the limit is only 100.kph.
When Toyota designed their car they werent much interested in the Aussie market because of its comparative size and it is only when clients started requesting that something be done was when they bought out a dealer modification.
Progressively Toyota have made their transmission work much better than say pre 2014 models and I do believe that the later ones can achieve lock up at a lower speed.
With many auto transmissions when you select a gear from the S range it will selectively lock the converter but again this is purely at the whim of the manufacturer. Their decision is based around a lot of variables, driveability and fuel consumption are probably the two most important.
Not many manufacturers care about their vehicles performance while towing even though most of them will be quick to point out that their model can tow 3.5 tonnes.
So in short we dont know what sort of vehicle you own but to drive in a selected S gear to suit road speed and conditions is much better for the transmission than to have it in D when pulling loads.
To Answer your questions yes it may be that an auto will slip in the converter in higher gears at lower speeds.
The best place for information regarding your particular model vehicle would be on a dedicated brand forum. My son uses the LCool forum which is abound with good information. This is generally better than most dealer workshop information unless you strike a good one.
If you let us know your vehicle type and model on here there is a good chance a member will have the same vehicle and offer good sound advice for you.
Not all vehicles need or even benefit from lock up kits as some manufacturers have them set to work in most situations.
Good luck with it, I hope this helps.
Hi Ivan,
Your post above would be one of best descriptions I have seen or heard of how transmissions and locked torque convertors work.
I am an avid fan of LCool and the info on there is amazing.
I have a 2014 Cruiser and I had a lock up kit fitted. Best thing I have done to it
There are reports that the later models are much better than the vehicles manufactured before 2015.
To the Op
As many have said Cruise control is an option to use when road and traffic conditions are good but I find that driving with the accelerator pedal does generally give me better economy.
Out in the west where the roads are long, flat and straight I use it just for comfort of the right leg.
Cheers
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Thursday 28th of November 2019 11:27:50 AM
One thing to be aware of is that when you are accelerating from, say, 80kph, up to the speed limit of say 110kph using the cruise control some cars, like mine, use full, wide open throttle whilst others use a much more gentle approach. The full throttle strategy could be a real concern in slippery conditions. Fortunately the old Td5 is not a rocket ship..
Thanks Ivan, that is very helpful.
My vehicle is a Landrover Discovery Sport with a ZF9-HP transmission. It's unlikely anyone else has one on here as it's more popular with soccer mums than grey nomads I've found, although Whenarewethere with his Freelander may have a similar setup, but he doesn't tow with his. Anyway, I will try a Landrover specific forum to learn more as you suggest.
I can not help you with a vehicle specific forum but I would almost be positive that there will be a forum that includes your vehicle.
Are you having trouble or are you doubting that your vehicle is operating correctly?
Lets hope that there is a member on here that tows with the same vehicle or maybe a member that knows of a forum.
Good luck mate
Hi Ivan, I took your advice and asked the question on a LandRover Forum and the consensus seems to be that the ZF 9sp gearbox I have does not suffer from this issue. Thanks for your help.
Happy motoring.
While I tow a camper trailer (Vista RV XL) it is only about 1800Kg loaded.
I also have an after market torque convertor lock up kit installed (AutoMate made by MM4X4 in Adelaide). Which can be turned on and off as required by a simple push button switch.
With the standard Pajero, even when not towing, the torque convertor locks and unlocks as required when driving in D depending on a variety of parameters (Eg hills, speed etc.) and in some circumstances, like virtually every other auto box, is designed to slip.
When towing it is recommended (by the manufacturer) to tow in 4H and in 4th gear utilising the sports shift. This is to keep transmission oil temperatures down and to reduce fuel consumption. It does work.
With the AutoMate, even when not towing (noting I live in central Vic so virtually all driving is highway speeds), I leave it turned on. It effectively electronically, makes the gearbox work as a manual, by maintaining torque convertor lockup and actually changing the sports shift up and down as required, even though the shift is actually in D.
This definitely improves fuel consumption, both towing and in general driving. It is not a huge reduction, but it is about 2lt/100km. The big advantage is when towing, it also noticeably improves fuel consumption, but just as importantly keeps the transmission temperature down as the locking, unlocking and slipping of the torque convertor is eliminated so the heat is kept down.
Sarco
Aqua planing is a pheromone only exhibited by rear drive vehicles, and mostly occurs after applying and releasing the brakes.
Theoretically if you drive long enough through water the front wheels will slow down start aqua planing, or if you have bald tyres. But tyre manufacturers design tyres to prevent aqua planing.
But even then the cruise controller only monitors driven wheels to set the speed.
And should the cruise controller ever try to increase the speed while aqua planing, torque would be applied to only the rear wheels.
Aqua planing affects steering and braking.
I have experienced the aqua planing effect in deep, new, wet, snow in Norway when the wrong grease was packed into the front wheel bearings and the grease dripped down onto the brake shoes and caused the brakes to seize.
I dispute that comment "only rear drive vehicles" Our '96 LR Defender had 15" fat sand tyres when we bought it. It would aquaplane in any puddle. Changed back to 16" LR rims with standard skinny tyres, never had a problem after.