I am thinking of getting 3k inverter, for when we are free camping just to be able to fall back on using 240v appliances for convenience, (not planning on using all the time) i have gas bbq, fridge and stove.
I have added extra solar Panel and a portable panel to keep batteries topup. Any comments on this idea appreciated.
Whenarewethere said
11:00 PM Sep 19, 2020
Have you survived quite happily to date without one.
If not, can the batteries supply the amps & for the length of time the appliance needs to run.
Or during peak sun can the solar & batteries supply enough.
How far is the inverter from the batteries ( + & - total metres) & have you designed in heavy enough wire. No point wasting 10% resistance in the wiring.
What is the wattage of the most power hungry device & can it be replaced with a lower wattage unit. IE, replace a kettle with a Birko 750w model for a more friendly drain on the batteries.
Mamil said
12:33 AM Sep 20, 2020
Can your batteries supply 250 Amps continuous current, and can your wiring, fuses, meters, bus bars, and connections cope with that kind of current flow?
If not you'll either have to upgrade the rest of your system to cope with the load, or rethink the size of inverter you need.
-- Edited by Mamil on Sunday 20th of September 2020 12:54:34 AM
dabbler said
01:23 AM Sep 20, 2020
I travel with two inverters. A smaller unit (can't recall size) that's part of my system but isolated when not in use and a larger 3000w unit I can connect directly to either my aux battery bank or cranking battery. The small unit runs my AC chargers. I've never bothered using the larger unit as all my appliances run 12v. It was my first pure sine wave inverter and as soon as I unpacked it, everything the posters above became apparent. Big inverters are a costly exercise to implement. Fuses alone will set you back a fair bit.
Jaahn said
09:50 AM Sep 20, 2020
Hi jeepnudger
I think the other posters have already said it all. It is easy to buy a big inverter these days but getting it to work well is not so easy, due to the excessive power it can draw from the batteries. Which of course has to be generated and put back in. :(
Not to forget that the 240V is just as dangerous as the power back home but without the built in safety that house wiring has, EG earths and safety switches.
Jaahn
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:41 AM Sep 20, 2020
If you install a stand alone inverter with just the single power point built in the only new wiring required will be the cables from the battery to the inverter and if they are as close together as possible, that is the end of the wiring issue. There is absolutely no effect on any existing "wiring, fuses, meters, bus bars, and connections" at all and no need to "upgrade the rest of the system to cope with the load".
What power you can then deliver will depend on the batteries and the voltage drop they suffer under continuous load and how long that load needs to be supplied.
What are your current batteries and what appliances do you anticipate running?
Cheers,
Peter
Monica W said
10:48 AM Sep 20, 2020
3,000W = 300A on 12V. Tell us about your great LiFePO4 battery setup and Solar panel system what appliances do you want to run I have a 375W inverter and run 300W stick mixer and 150W twin beater
Monica W said
11:01 AM Sep 20, 2020
Jaahn wrote:
Hi jeepnudger Not to forget that the 240V is just as dangerous as the power back home but without the built in safety that house wiring has, EG earths and safety switches. Jaahn
Get your facts correct prior to posting.
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:38 AM Sep 20, 2020
Monica W wrote:
3,000W = 300A on 12V. Tell us about your great LiFePO4 battery setup and Solar panel system what appliances do you want to run I have a 375W inverter and run 300W stick mixer and 150W twin beater
I start my OKA using a single 125Ah AGM. That uses more than 300A. Crank batteries can be quite capable of delivering 600 or 900 amps for 30 seconds or more.
No lithium, no solar.
These questions are time related and the voltage drop that causes. That also applies to lithium.
Cheers,
Peter
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:39 AM Sep 20, 2020
Monica W wrote:
Jaahn wrote:
Hi jeepnudger Not to forget that the 240V is just as dangerous as the power back home but without the built in safety that house wiring has, EG earths and safety switches. Jaahn
Get your facts correct prior to posting.
Just what problem do you see with Jaahn's post?
Cheers,
Peter
Whenarewethere said
11:41 AM Sep 20, 2020
Jaahn wrote:
Not to forget that the 240V is just as dangerous as the power back home but without the built in safety that house wiring has, EG earths and safety switches. Jaahn
Agree.
I learnt the hard way while trying to repair my 3.0kVA UPS (uninterruptible power supply) that wasn't plugged in at the time, so there is no earth. So the RCD on the meter board is of no use as the UPS is not plugged in.
Remote camping with batteries & inverter is a large UPS.
Not that I was sticking fingers in the UPSs power, but seriously dangerous stuff without an earth.
Jaahn said
12:00 PM Sep 20, 2020
Monica W wrote:
Jaahn wrote:
Hi jeepnudger Not to forget that the 240V is just as dangerous as the power back home but without the built in safety that house wiring has, EG earths and safety switches. Jaahn
Get your facts correct prior to posting.
Hi Monica
I am not sure what you are referring too ?? There are no contestable facts in that statement above IMHO.
If you believe you know any please let us know !!
Jaahn
Peter_n_Margaret said
01:44 PM Sep 20, 2020
Whenarewethere wrote:
...... but seriously dangerous stuff without an earth.
The lack of "earth" is not the issue. Inverter 240V power can be just as safe as the 240V at home and just as dangerous too.
Cheers,
Peter
travelyounger said
02:01 PM Sep 20, 2020
jeepnudger wrote:
I am thinking of getting 3k inverter, for when we are free camping just to be able to fall back on using 240v appliances for convenience, (not planning on using all the time) i have gas bbq, fridge and stove.
I have added extra solar Panel and a portable panel to keep batteries topup. Any comments on this idea appreciated.
Hi jeepnudger
My last van I had a 1000 watt inverter in front boot and connected to 3 120 amp agm and just run a lead from inverter to 240 inlet and will power all 240 volt points but mainly used for toaster and charging laptops as far as I know a 3000 watt should be no different. My new van has a 1600 watt inverter fitted internally and run all points except air and hot water and much easier than the old method and comes in handy for washing machine low wattage hair dryer and toaster.
If you are going to use high wattage appliances regularly off grid unless you have lots of solar and lithium batteries and maybe a dcdc charger running off your vehicle and the sun is not shining then a generator will be your best friend to keep your batteries charged up for the night.
Cheers
Peter_n_Margaret said
02:15 PM Sep 20, 2020
travelyounger wrote:
My last van I had a 1000 watt inverter in front boot and connected to 3 120 amp agm and just run a lead from inverter to 240 inlet and will power all 240 volt points
That practice has serious safety risks because the RCD will be totally non operative and if there happens to be a fault with 2 earthed appliances at the same time and you touch both, you could be killed. There is no risk if only using double insulated appliances.
The same risks apply if a generator is plugged into the van inlet. It does not matter what the capacity of the inverter or generator is, the risk is the same.
To alleviate that risk, replace the RCD with an RVD.
Cheers,
Peter
Jaahn said
03:19 PM Sep 20, 2020
Hi
It was not my intention to scare the punters by my statement of fact. There have been discussions before about the safety of inverters and generators, by people who do know the standards and dangers, but to be honest mostly dismissed by the users on this forum. There are dangers in 240V power use and the standards help protect us from that, and possibly common sense, if you have any. Earths are good but only if you have one properly connected.
But on the one hand you can say double insulated appliances and running them direct from the inverter or generator outlet is OK. BUT on the other hand we have toasters !!!! running off the internal caravan wiring and supplied by the inverter or generator plugged into the external power input socket !!! I rest my case. My last word on this thread.
Jaahn
travelyounger said
03:39 PM Sep 20, 2020
I would like to know how this differs from plugging into the grid and using toasters and even blow heaters that draw 2000 watts and kettles that draw 2000 watts through the same wiring let alone the hot water heater and air con .Been vanning fulltime for 3 years free camping and in parks and never had an issue and I am not an electrician so could someone please give me an explanation thanks
Monica W said
03:40 PM Sep 20, 2020
Jaahn wrote:
Hi
It was not my intention to scare the punters by my statement of fact. There have been discussions before about the safety of inverters and generators, by people who do know the standards and dangers, but to be honest mostly dismissed by the users on this forum. There are dangers in 240V power use and the standards help protect us from that, and possibly common sense, if you have any. Earths are good but only if you have one properly connected.
But on the one hand you can say double insulated appliances and running them direct from the inverter or generator outlet is OK. BUT on the other hand we have toasters !!!! running off the internal caravan wiring and supplied by the inverter or generator plugged into the external power input socket !!! I rest my case. My last word on this thread.
Jaahn
Good it is your last word as unqualified and incorrect as all the other postings. People that are not qualified shouldn't be giving advice on electrical matters. Prefer to soar with qualified Eagles rather than arque with the unqualified who have proven they don't know.
-- Edited by Monica W on Sunday 20th of September 2020 03:41:18 PM
-- Edited by Monica W on Sunday 20th of September 2020 03:41:59 PM
travelyounger said
03:52 PM Sep 20, 2020
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
travelyounger wrote:
My last van I had a 1000 watt inverter in front boot and connected to 3 120 amp agm and just run a lead from inverter to 240 inlet and will power all 240 volt points
That practice has serious safety risks because the RCD will be totally non operative and if there happens to be a fault with 2 earthed appliances at the same time and you touch both, you could be killed. There is no risk if only using double insulated appliances.
The same risks apply if a generator is plugged into the van inlet. It does not matter what the capacity of the inverter or generator is, the risk is the same.
To alleviate that risk, replace the RCD with an RVD.
Cheers,
Peter
Hi peter
Would an rvd stop a 15 amp active wire melting at van inlet connection.I have seen a few of these in caravan parks with correct outlets and the RCD on both the post and van have not tripped and the plug has fused to van.
Cheers
Cheers
yobarr said
05:16 PM Sep 20, 2020
Whenarewethere wrote:
Have you survived quite happily to date without one.If not, can the batteries supply the amps & for the length of time the appliance needs to run.Or during peak sun can the solar & batteries supply enough.How far is the inverter from the batteries ( + & - total metres) & have you designed in heavy enough wire. No point wasting 10% resistance in the wiring.What is the wattage of the most power hungry device & can it be replaced with a lower wattage unit. IE, replace a kettle with a Birko 750w model for a more friendly drain on the batteries.
What a great bit of advice that was,Jonathan! When I tried to boil water in the car,with a 2250w jug,the volts quickly dropped,even though I have 180ah Lithium in the back,and I was looking for solutions! Your fortuitous post supplied the answer I was looking for,and today I bought a 1300ml Birko which is the Bee's Knees,according to the fella I bought it from.If it can do half of what he attested it to be capable of,I will be a very happy camper? Cheers
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:20 PM Sep 20, 2020
Monica W wrote:
Good it is your last word as unqualified and incorrect as all the other postings. People that are not qualified shouldn't be giving advice on electrical matters. Prefer to soar with qualified Eagles rather than arque with the unqualified who have proven they don't know.
I am usually pretty tolerant of others opinions, right or wrong, but if your best contribution is to slag other people off, please go away and don't come back.
Anybody who needs any help with their Solar would be well advised to contact these guys.Several times I have simply dropped in for help when passing,and always they have promptly and efficiently helped me,at a very reasonable cost. They have a wide range of well-priced gear,and great knowledge to go with it.Other than being a very happy customer,I have no connection with Solar2Camp.Cheers
Magnarc said
01:17 PM Sep 21, 2020
Monica wrote,
"Good it is your last word as unqualified and incorrect as all the other postings. People that are not qualified shouldn't be giving advice on electrical matters. Prefer to soar with qualified Eagles rather than arque with the unqualified who have proven they don't know."
Peter and Margaret, totally agree with your comments. There was no need for those comments to be made that way, rude, arrogant put downs we don't need on the forum. The point could just have well been made in a more polite way, however we should not be surprised, this poster has previous form.
This Monica post got me to thinking could some past offender who was deleted, have returned in another guise???????????? It is not beyond the bounds of possiblity is it??? Just sayin.
-- Edited by Magnarc on Monday 21st of September 2020 01:23:55 PM
yobarr said
01:51 PM Sep 21, 2020
Magnarc wrote:
Monica wrote,"Good it is your last word as unqualified and incorrect as all the other postings. People that are not qualified shouldn't be giving advice on electrical matters.Prefer to soar with qualified Eagles rather than arque with the unqualified who have proven they don't know."Peter and Margaret, totally agree with your comments. There was no need for those comments to be made that way, rude, arrogant put downs we don't need on the forum. The point could just have well been made in a more polite way, however we should not be surprised, this poster has previous form.This Monica post got me to thinking could some past offender who was deleted, have returned in another guise????????? It is not beyond the bounds of possiblity is it??? Just sayin.
Hi Phil...interesting thought,as I sometimes have wondered about authenticity.Perhaps 'Monica' is not this person's real moniker? The profile shows gender as 'F',but at 9.26am on 20th September last,this member posted "My wife and son travel extensively in a Jayco poptop".Like you,"Just saying".Cheers..
Magnarc said
02:30 PM Sep 21, 2020
Food for thought Chris, food for thought.
Whenarewethere said
03:20 PM Sep 21, 2020
The OP has not returned to this thread, the key issues are:
'thinking of getting 3k inverter'
'have added extra solar panels'
'have gas BBQ, fridge and stove'
'to fall back on using 240v appliances'
At the end of the day none of us can really comment on this as there is no information on the capacity of the setup. Maybe the setup is so massive a 3.0kVA is a walk in the park & the OP has the capacity to double up on electrical appliances & has 4/0 awg wire installed!
yobarr said
07:15 PM Sep 21, 2020
Whenarewethere wrote:
The OP has not returned to this thread, the key issues are:
'thinking of getting 3k inverter'
'have added extra solar panels'
'have gas BBQ, fridge and stove'
'to fall back on using 240v appliances'
At the end of the day none of us can really comment on this as there is no information on the capacity of the setup. Maybe the setup is so massive a 3.0kVA is a walk in the park & the OP has the capacity to double up on electrical appliances & has 4/0 awg wire installed!
The OP did,in fact,return today at 2.45pm,but appears to have not even acknowledged responses to his request. Cheers
jeepnudger said
08:26 PM Sep 21, 2020
What is the abreviation RCD and RVD stand for ???
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:36 PM Sep 21, 2020
Residual Current Devise and Residual Voltage Devise.
I am thinking of getting 3k inverter, for when we are free camping just to be able to fall back on using 240v appliances for convenience, (not planning on using all the time) i have gas bbq, fridge and stove.
I have added extra solar Panel and a portable panel to keep batteries topup. Any comments on this idea appreciated.
Have you survived quite happily to date without one.
If not, can the batteries supply the amps & for the length of time the appliance needs to run.
Or during peak sun can the solar & batteries supply enough.
How far is the inverter from the batteries ( + & - total metres) & have you designed in heavy enough wire. No point wasting 10% resistance in the wiring.
What is the wattage of the most power hungry device & can it be replaced with a lower wattage unit. IE, replace a kettle with a Birko 750w model for a more friendly drain on the batteries.
Can your batteries supply 250 Amps continuous current, and can your wiring, fuses, meters, bus bars, and connections cope with that kind of current flow?
If not you'll either have to upgrade the rest of your system to cope with the load, or rethink the size of inverter you need.
-- Edited by Mamil on Sunday 20th of September 2020 12:54:34 AM
I think the other posters have already said it all. It is easy to buy a big inverter these days but getting it to work well is not so easy, due to the excessive power it can draw from the batteries. Which of course has to be generated and put back in. :(
Not to forget that the 240V is just as dangerous as the power back home but without the built in safety that house wiring has, EG earths and safety switches.
Jaahn
What power you can then deliver will depend on the batteries and the voltage drop they suffer under continuous load and how long that load needs to be supplied.
What are your current batteries and what appliances do you anticipate running?
Cheers,
Peter
3,000W = 300A on 12V.
Tell us about your great LiFePO4 battery setup and Solar panel system
what appliances do you want to run
I have a 375W inverter and run 300W stick mixer and 150W twin beater
Get your facts correct prior to posting.
I start my OKA using a single 125Ah AGM. That uses more than 300A. Crank batteries can be quite capable of delivering 600 or 900 amps for 30 seconds or more.
No lithium, no solar.
These questions are time related and the voltage drop that causes. That also applies to lithium.
Cheers,
Peter
Just what problem do you see with Jaahn's post?
Cheers,
Peter
Agree.
I learnt the hard way while trying to repair my 3.0kVA UPS (uninterruptible power supply) that wasn't plugged in at the time, so there is no earth. So the RCD on the meter board is of no use as the UPS is not plugged in.
Remote camping with batteries & inverter is a large UPS.
Not that I was sticking fingers in the UPSs power, but seriously dangerous stuff without an earth.
Hi Monica
I am not sure what you are referring too ?? There are no contestable facts in that statement above IMHO.
If you believe you know any please let us know !!
Jaahn
The lack of "earth" is not the issue. Inverter 240V power can be just as safe as the 240V at home and just as dangerous too.
Cheers,
Peter
Hi jeepnudger
My last van I had a 1000 watt inverter in front boot and connected to 3 120 amp agm and just run a lead from inverter to 240 inlet and will power all 240 volt points but mainly used for toaster and charging laptops as far as I know a 3000 watt should be no different. My new van has a 1600 watt inverter fitted internally and run all points except air and hot water and much easier than the old method and comes in handy for washing machine low wattage hair dryer and toaster.
If you are going to use high wattage appliances regularly off grid unless you have lots of solar and lithium batteries and maybe a dcdc charger running off your vehicle and the sun is not shining then a generator will be your best friend to keep your batteries charged up for the night.
Cheers
That practice has serious safety risks because the RCD will be totally non operative and if there happens to be a fault with 2 earthed appliances at the same time and you touch both, you could be killed. There is no risk if only using double insulated appliances.
The same risks apply if a generator is plugged into the van inlet. It does not matter what the capacity of the inverter or generator is, the risk is the same.
To alleviate that risk, replace the RCD with an RVD.
Cheers,
Peter
Hi
It was not my intention to scare the punters by my statement of fact. There have been discussions before about the safety of inverters and generators, by people who do know the standards and dangers, but to be honest mostly dismissed by the users on this forum. There are dangers in 240V power use and the standards help protect us from that, and possibly common sense, if you have any.
Earths are good but only if you have one properly connected.
But on the one hand you can say double insulated appliances and running them direct from the inverter or generator outlet is OK. BUT on the other hand we have toasters !!!! running off the internal caravan wiring and supplied by the inverter or generator plugged into the external power input socket !!! I rest my case.
My last word on this thread.
Jaahn
Good it is your last word as unqualified and incorrect as all the other postings. People that are not qualified shouldn't be giving advice on electrical matters.
Prefer to soar with qualified Eagles rather than arque with the unqualified who have proven they don't know.
-- Edited by Monica W on Sunday 20th of September 2020 03:41:18 PM
-- Edited by Monica W on Sunday 20th of September 2020 03:41:59 PM
Hi peter
Would an rvd stop a 15 amp active wire melting at van inlet connection.I have seen a few of these in caravan parks with correct outlets and the RCD on both the post and van have not tripped and the plug has fused to van.
Cheers
Cheers
What a great bit of advice that was,Jonathan! When I tried to boil water in the car,with a 2250w jug,the volts quickly dropped,even though I have 180ah Lithium in the back,and I was looking for solutions! Your fortuitous post supplied the answer I was looking for,and today I bought a 1300ml Birko which is the Bee's Knees,according to the fella I bought it from.If it can do half of what he attested it to be capable of,I will be a very happy camper? Cheers
I am usually pretty tolerant of others opinions, right or wrong, but if your best contribution is to slag other people off, please go away and don't come back.
Cheers,
Peter
Anybody who needs any help with their Solar would be well advised to contact these guys.Several times I have simply dropped in for help when passing,and always they have promptly and efficiently helped me,at a very reasonable cost. They have a wide range of well-priced gear,and great knowledge to go with it.Other than being a very happy customer,I have no connection with Solar2Camp.Cheers
Monica wrote,
"Good it is your last word as unqualified and incorrect as all the other postings. People that are not qualified shouldn't be giving advice on electrical matters.
Prefer to soar with qualified Eagles rather than arque with the unqualified who have proven they don't know."
Peter and Margaret, totally agree with your comments. There was no need for those comments to be made that way, rude, arrogant put downs we don't need on the forum. The point could just have well been made in a more polite way, however we should not be surprised, this poster has previous form.
This Monica post got me to thinking could some past offender who was deleted, have returned in another guise???????????? It is not beyond the bounds of possiblity is it??? Just sayin.
-- Edited by Magnarc on Monday 21st of September 2020 01:23:55 PM
Hi Phil...interesting thought,as I sometimes have wondered about authenticity.Perhaps 'Monica' is not this person's real moniker? The profile shows gender as 'F',but at 9.26am on 20th September last,this member posted "My wife and son travel extensively in a Jayco poptop".Like you,"Just saying".Cheers..
Food for thought Chris, food for thought.
The OP has not returned to this thread, the key issues are:
'thinking of getting 3k inverter'
'have added extra solar panels'
'have gas BBQ, fridge and stove'
'to fall back on using 240v appliances'
At the end of the day none of us can really comment on this as there is no information on the capacity of the setup. Maybe the setup is so massive a 3.0kVA is a walk in the park & the OP has the capacity to double up on electrical appliances & has 4/0 awg wire installed!
The OP did,in fact,return today at 2.45pm,but appears to have not even acknowledged responses to his request. Cheers
What is the abreviation RCD and RVD stand for ???
Residual Current Devise and Residual Voltage Devise.
EDIT https://www.rvdsafe.com.au/
Developed in Australia, it provides significant safety benefits especially for RVs
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Monday 21st of September 2020 08:39:54 PM