I have a Carefree awning on my Windsor van, the van being just under 18 feet long. When I put the awning out I set it at an angle of about 75 to 80 degrees, (as in 90 degrees would be straight out parallel to the ground).
I use two double guy ropes, one on each end of the roller, at an angle of about 45 degrees out from the van. In addition, I use a single guy rope on each side at about 45 degrees.
My questions are these. With wet weather approaching do I still need to drop one side or would what I have done allow water to run off and not settle. Secondly, what wind speeds would others be taking there awning in. I have fitted a few tarp tie downs to stop most of the flap. I have had winds of about 30 kph gusts that give the van a bit of a shake, but all is well so far. I don't want to be getting up at 2am to bring the awning in but I also don't want to take it in and put it out everytime there is a breeze or a bit of rain. Speaking of rain, does it matter if I leave it out when it is pouring if the water is not welling in pools on the top of the awning.
I do not have an annex fitted.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 12:34:01 PM
Rob Driver said
01:27 PM Dec 9, 2020
Hi DMaxer,
You have actually two issues here.
1 Rain.
2 Wind
Sometimes as we all know you may get both conditions at once.
With rain, the roll out vinyl should be extended on the roll so the top surface is absolutely level with the top of the roller. In other words do not over extend the roller as it will form a small dip or channel at the point where the water should be free to run smoothly off the vinyl. The tighter the vinyl the less chance of water pooling. Those curved spreader bars are a good asset as they help to tighten the vinyl so as to remove any stretched areas of fabric from previous rain and wind. Anti flaps are a must to keep the vinyl as tight as is necessary to stop pooling of water. Dropping one end an inch or so does not hurt either.
With wind all of the above applies but tie down security is of upmost importance. Use large secure pegs or even better use star droppers or star pickets as some call them. Drive them well into the ground at a sharp angle to vertical to provide reasonable security. Use quality rope that doesnt stretch or fray. Most rope in Hardware stores and camping shops is cheap chinese rubbish that has a very short life when exposed to the elements. I dont like those springs but much rather a good hitch tied into the rope for security. The end arms are generally more secure if left fixed onto the caravan rather than in the vertical position onto the ground. Having said that, I almost always put mine to the ground rather than to the van to enable easy access as I am reasonably tall. I secure the legs vertically with screw pegs fitted through each hole in the bottom of the leg brackets at an opposing angle to each other. To facilitate this I have drilled the existing holes out to accomodate the larger screw pegs from Screw Pegs Australia. Once again those type of screws available in the likes of Aldi really are not big enough for anything but the kids tent walls or maybe annexe walls. I have also observed that a shade cloth fitted to the awning to provide some protection from the wind and fitted on the side or end where the prevailing wind blows from will help at times to direct the wind over the awning and not under it which will cause the awning to want to lift. Any movement up and down will eventually cause the tie down pegs to become insecure or ropes to loosen and may let go in a strong wind so it pays to check all securing points very regularly.
After all this I dont think anyone can quote an exact wind speed or rain event where caution should be adopted and the awning be pulled in but as you secure your awning you may record wind and rain events and then get a good idea as to when to pull it in. For example any predicted storm would be a good time to roll it up and then re erect it when the weather has passed.
I hope this helps, take care.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 01:31:15 PM
Whenarewethere said
01:34 PM Dec 9, 2020
A single carport is designed for a 1 tonne wind load. The problem is updraft. An awning has a lot of surface area!
Rob Driver said
01:42 PM Dec 9, 2020
Whenarewethere wrote:
A single carport is designed for a 1 tonne wind load. The problem is updraft. An awning has a lot of surface area!
Probably a mute point when we arent talking carports. How does anyone provide a wind load to a roll out awning when there are so many variables.
Regards
Rob
Whenarewethere said
02:18 PM Dec 9, 2020
I know they are different products. Carports are built in all various locations & are designed for the worse case scenario.
Many years ago I repaired foldout awning joints. A suburb near my, the owners would leave home for the day. A westerly wind would hit in the afternoon & snap off awnings.
Fold or wind them in or it's going to be costly.
Derek Barnes said
03:45 PM Dec 9, 2020
At the merest breath of wind I put my awnings in. I have a side awning, and an end awning over the rear entry door of the caravan. I never use hold down ropes and simply use the brackets in the sides of the caravan to hold the awnings, so I have to put the awnings in if the breeze increases to only about 20km/h.
Bobdown said
04:35 PM Dec 9, 2020
DMaxer wrote:
I have a Carefree awning on my Windsor van, the van being just under 18 feet long. When I put the awning out I set it at an angle of about 75 to 80 degrees, (as in 90 degrees would be straight out parallel to the ground).
I use two double guy ropes, one on each end of the roller, at an angle of about 45 degrees out from the van. In addition, I use a single guy rope on each side at about 45 degrees.
My questions are these. With wet weather approaching do I still need to drop one side or would what I have done allow water to run off and not settle. Secondly, what wind speeds would others be taking there awning in. I have fitted a few tarp tie downs to stop most of the flap. I have had winds of about 30 kph gusts that give the van a bit of a shake, but all is well so far. I don't want to be getting up at 2am to bring the awning in but I also don't want to take it in and put it out everytime there is a breeze or a bit of rain. Speaking of rain, does it matter if I leave it out when it is pouring if the water is not welling in pools on the top of the awning.
I do not have an annex fitted.
Hi DMaxer,
I have dropped one side of the awning to collect rainwater and run it off away from the table and chairs etc, just drop the side most downhill so it doesn't run back into the mat area so to speak.
I also use double guy ropes and most times you can leave the awning out in a moderate breeze, but I can remember getting up at 1 am to roll the awning up after an almighty wind blew in and I heard the awning lifting up and down, and the van shaking as well, the screw-in pegs were coming out of the beach sand. The forecast said mild winds and but it was about 40 knots, fun watching the missus trying to help.
Cheers Bob
Dougwe said
04:45 PM Dec 9, 2020
G'day BigD,
I tie down both ends like this with the funnel on the sloped end to keep water hitting my head if I walk under it and also when freedom camping to harvest water. I also have another tie down in the middle of the roller using a 2' split pin hinge separated, in the track of the roller. I also have the full anti flap kit that strengthens things as well.
I have only every rolled it up in bad weather on two occasions so far.
Possum3 said
05:36 PM Dec 9, 2020
I never put awning down/out without using guy ropes and substantial pegs even for a lunch stop. I have awning clips & caribinas permanently attached to guy ropes with spring ends at hand with a mallet takes less than a couple of minutes.
I have done this since 2013 when we were in the New England area in summer on a perfectly still and clear day - One massive gust of wind took the awning over the top of van, bent awning arms ripping one off, awning roller took out TV aerial. The main hassle was the wait to have van fixed - 6 months.
DMaxer said
08:26 PM Dec 9, 2020
Thanks for the great advice everyone.
Craig1 said
08:51 PM Dec 9, 2020
Has any one actually had the awning track ripped off the side of the van in a wind event? Is that a weak point if the extended awning is really secure?
bgt said
09:53 PM Dec 9, 2020
I've seen a well tied down awning get torn away from the roller itself. Several times.
I've also seen/experienced an awning being sucked out of the roller while going up the highway. Yes it was put away correctly. Yes I was driving on a very windy day. And yes it was extreme weather.
But I don't trust awnings. The most common insurance claim must be awning damage.
Mike Harding said
04:15 AM Dec 10, 2020
Nice to see such a great set of replies.
Dmaxer; my awning setup is similar to yours except I don't use side guys. I use *serious* steel pegs driven in at about 45d and then a strong tent peg at 90d across and in front of the main peg to prevent (hopefully) it being pulled forward.
I set one end of the awning two notches below the other which equates to one end being about 50mm lower than the other, anything less and I find the water pools.
When the BOM forecast winds of more than 30kph I take the awning down - a very rough rule of thumb is that gusts may be up to twice the constant wind speed. If I were in a very exposed place (beach maybe?) I'd probably drop that number to 20/25kph but I usually camp in forests and the trees offer some protection.
DMaxer said
07:29 AM Dec 10, 2020
Great answers. Thanks everyone for well thought out and knowledgeable replies.
There is plenty of wind and rain forecast for next few days so time to batten down the hatches I think.
villatranquilla said
11:52 AM Dec 10, 2020
by leaving the awning arms attached to the van but also with guy ropes for added security it is easy to roll the awning up quickly if needed. Experience taught us how difficult it can be to get the arms back onto the van when its windy. Rain is not such a problem but its not good lying in bed at night wondering if the wind will die down then deciding you need to roll up the awning to stop worrying and get to sleep. Have seen some funny and not so funny sites with people struggling in wind and rain in the middle of the night in their night attire - easier to do it before bedtime and in daylight
-- Edited by villatranquilla on Thursday 10th of December 2020 11:53:05 AM
Tony Bev said
02:45 PM Dec 10, 2020
I have a carefree awning
I previously had a fiamma awning, the bookwork on the fiamma awning said It was only a sunshade, and not to be used in wind or rain (or words to that effect) The fiamma awning was destroyed at Greens Lake (Victoria near Rochester), in the wind, that did not destroy any other type of awnings
I use steel coach bolts 10mm dia X 250mm length, with a spring to take up any slack, (as my stakes) Instead of guy ropes I use ratchet tie down straps I also have rafters, to ensure that rain does not accumulate on top of the awning, plus shade cloth sides, to stop morning and afternoon sun
If a storm is forecast, then I will take the carefree awning in, otherwise it stays out, as it appears to be fairly robust
Bicyclecamper said
04:24 PM Dec 10, 2020
I don't use my awning at all, after a couple of instances, whereby a rogue gust of wind, blew it over the van, and once went to sleep unintentionally, early and woke up to a gale force winds and nearly lost it again. So it is not used. Was going to remove it and just use a sail track awning, which we had on out last van and never blew away, but am selling the van soon and going back to an hardfloor camper. I think the awnings are a waste of money. You have to be on the ball with them all the time, and all I want to do when c.vanning is relax.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 10th of December 2020 04:30:09 PM
Farmhat said
12:20 AM Dec 11, 2020
Another point perhaps worth noting, is that double the windspeed = four times the force.
Joe.
Mike Harding said
06:29 AM Dec 11, 2020
Tony Bev wrote:
I have a carefree awning
Mine's pretty relaxed too :)
Dougwe said
07:41 AM Dec 11, 2020
I care for my awning but it's not free
littledick said
10:41 AM Dec 11, 2020
I also use 2 guy ropes each end. I also put one in the middle of the awning roller, just take the pin out of a hinge as this section fits in the channel, drill hole in the hinge section to accommodate an S hook, the rope fits to that.
I think you will know when to wind the awning in, my wife tells me as she also refuses to get out of bed in the early, or late hours!!
Dick.
I mentioned on another post to make sure you check the awning rail brackets top and bottom attached to the van. My awning wasn't rolling up evenly.
I noticed the top bracket hex head screws with slot head was loose allowing the rail to move in and out. Would have been nice coming off at 90ks.
Now I check regularly!!
-- Edited by littledick on Friday 11th of December 2020 10:48:14 AM
Whenarewethere said
10:57 AM Dec 11, 2020
Edit, sorry, posted in wrong thread.
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 11th of December 2020 11:01:27 AM
DMaxer said
01:35 PM Dec 11, 2020
Just had the heavy rain and wind start up this morning in north eastern NSW.
The awning has held firm, the water has run off the far end that was lowered slightly, all the great advice working well.
Makes one feel like standing outside under the awning belting out a few verses of "You'll Never Walk Alone"!
Thanks again.
Dougwe said
03:44 PM Dec 11, 2020
Nah! Just stand out in the rain BigD then you could sing 'sing'n in the rain'.
DMaxer said
02:37 PM Dec 12, 2020
You should see the rain that is coming down today Doug. The end of the awning which has been slanted down looks like Niagara Falls.
Funnily enough, in the middle of the heavy shower a couple pulled up further down, unhitched the van in the rain and before retiring inside to dry off, you guessed it, they put their awning out.
My awning must be an inspiration, or anyway, that is what I think.
Dougwe said
05:26 PM Dec 12, 2020
Think of all that lovely fresh water you would be harvesting if free camping mate.
Mike Harding said
07:08 AM Dec 13, 2020
Another tip Dmaxer (might be too late?):
Under the waterfall at the low end place a bucket even if you don't wish to catch the water, it stops the waterfall digging a hole and splattering mud everywhere.
DMaxer said
08:00 AM Dec 13, 2020
I thought of that Mike so put a bucket down. It fills in minutes but the overflow doesn't cause too many probs as there is a run off into hedges and good grass cover.
It is supposed to ramp up today so the awning may be wound in after all this great engineering.
Cupie said
12:13 AM Dec 14, 2020
I too use two spring loaded guy ropes at each end of the awning. Springs are critical on all guys. One guy (at each end) is attached to the roller/rafter with a clip & the other to a fixed saddle on the diagonal arm.
The guy ropes attached to the rafter go out at 45 degrees to the van wall and the ones on the diagonal arms are run back towards each other parallel with the rafter. I haven't seen anyone else use this configuration but it reduces the load on the join between the rafter & the arm. One less rope to trip over too. Which reminds me .. I slide a piece of white conduit over the ground end of the guys to reduce the risk of tripping.
For pegs I use extra long coach bolts set at 45 degrees too. I leave the bottom end of the diagonal arms attached to the side of the van unless installing the annex walls. Angles are all important.
I always have the awning end furthest from the entrance door two notches lower than the other to facilitate water run off. It's a good idea to tension the top arm from the van to the rafter so that it has no end play & wont go thump thump during the night. It also ensures that the vinyl fabric is tight to avoid pooling.
I don't use the extra rafters, but would if the awning material was stretched. The anti flappers that I have used were useless but a rafter running along the ends of the awning would be good I think.
Whenever there is the slightest hint or forecast of wind, I wind it in .. particularly in the evening of if leaving the van unattended.
ps. That's a good idea to use a deconstructed hinge to position a guy in the centre of the rafter when not using a privacy screen.
Mike Harding said
01:17 PM Dec 14, 2020
Cupie wrote:ps. That's a good idea to use a deconstructed hinge to position a guy in the centre of the rafter when not using a privacy screen.
I'm not so keen.
The channel along the roller is not intended to be a load bearing area and a guy rope so positioned may end up taking a *lot* of strain and possibly rupture the channel.
I have a Carefree awning on my Windsor van, the van being just under 18 feet long. When I put the awning out I set it at an angle of about 75 to 80 degrees, (as in 90 degrees would be straight out parallel to the ground).
I use two double guy ropes, one on each end of the roller, at an angle of about 45 degrees out from the van. In addition, I use a single guy rope on each side at about 45 degrees.
My questions are these. With wet weather approaching do I still need to drop one side or would what I have done allow water to run off and not settle. Secondly, what wind speeds would others be taking there awning in. I have fitted a few tarp tie downs to stop most of the flap. I have had winds of about 30 kph gusts that give the van a bit of a shake, but all is well so far. I don't want to be getting up at 2am to bring the awning in but I also don't want to take it in and put it out everytime there is a breeze or a bit of rain. Speaking of rain, does it matter if I leave it out when it is pouring if the water is not welling in pools on the top of the awning.
I do not have an annex fitted.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 12:34:01 PM
Hi DMaxer,
You have actually two issues here.
1 Rain.
2 Wind
Sometimes as we all know you may get both conditions at once.
With rain, the roll out vinyl should be extended on the roll so the top surface is absolutely level with the top of the roller. In other words do not over extend the roller as it will form a small dip or channel at the point where the water should be free to run smoothly off the vinyl.
The tighter the vinyl the less chance of water pooling.
Those curved spreader bars are a good asset as they help to tighten the vinyl so as to remove any stretched areas of fabric from previous rain and wind.
Anti flaps are a must to keep the vinyl as tight as is necessary to stop pooling of water. Dropping one end an inch or so does not hurt either.
With wind all of the above applies but tie down security is of upmost importance.
Use large secure pegs or even better use star droppers or star pickets as some call them.
Drive them well into the ground at a sharp angle to vertical to provide reasonable security.
Use quality rope that doesnt stretch or fray. Most rope in Hardware stores and camping shops is cheap chinese rubbish that has a very short life when exposed to the elements. I dont like those springs but much rather a good hitch tied into the rope for security.
The end arms are generally more secure if left fixed onto the caravan rather than in the vertical position onto the ground.
Having said that, I almost always put mine to the ground rather than to the van to enable easy access as I am reasonably tall.
I secure the legs vertically with screw pegs fitted through each hole in the bottom of the leg brackets at an opposing angle to each other.
To facilitate this I have drilled the existing holes out to accomodate the larger screw pegs from Screw Pegs Australia.
Once again those type of screws available in the likes of Aldi really are not big enough for anything but the kids tent walls or maybe annexe walls.
I have also observed that a shade cloth fitted to the awning to provide some protection from the wind and fitted on the side or end where the prevailing wind blows from will help at times to direct the wind over the awning and not under it which will cause the awning to want to lift.
Any movement up and down will eventually cause the tie down pegs to become insecure or ropes to loosen and may let go in a strong wind so it pays to check all securing points very regularly.
After all this I dont think anyone can quote an exact wind speed or rain event where caution should be adopted and the awning be pulled in but as you secure your awning you may record wind and rain events and then get a good idea as to when to pull it in.
For example any predicted storm would be a good time to roll it up and then re erect it when the weather has passed.
I hope this helps, take care.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 01:31:15 PM
A single carport is designed for a 1 tonne wind load. The problem is updraft. An awning has a lot of surface area!
Probably a mute point when we arent talking carports. How does anyone provide a wind load to a roll out awning when there are so many variables.
Regards
Rob
I know they are different products. Carports are built in all various locations & are designed for the worse case scenario.
Many years ago I repaired foldout awning joints. A suburb near my, the owners would leave home for the day. A westerly wind would hit in the afternoon & snap off awnings.
Fold or wind them in or it's going to be costly.
At the merest breath of wind I put my awnings in. I have a side awning, and an end awning over the rear entry door of the caravan. I never use hold down ropes and simply use the brackets in the sides of the caravan to hold the awnings, so I have to put the awnings in if the breeze increases to only about 20km/h.
Hi DMaxer,
I have dropped one side of the awning to collect rainwater and run it off away from the table and chairs etc, just drop the side most downhill so it doesn't run back into the mat area so to speak.
I also use double guy ropes and most times you can leave the awning out in a moderate breeze, but I can remember getting up at 1 am to roll the awning up after an almighty wind blew in and I heard the awning lifting up and down, and the van shaking as well, the screw-in pegs were coming out of the beach sand. The forecast said mild winds and but it was about 40 knots, fun watching the missus trying to help.
Cheers Bob
G'day BigD,
I tie down both ends like this with the funnel on the sloped end to keep water hitting my head if I walk under it and also when freedom camping to harvest water. I also have another tie down in the middle of the roller using a 2' split pin hinge separated, in the track of the roller. I also have the full anti flap kit that strengthens things as well.
I have only every rolled it up in bad weather on two occasions so far.
I have done this since 2013 when we were in the New England area in summer on a perfectly still and clear day - One massive gust of wind took the awning over the top of van, bent awning arms ripping one off, awning roller took out TV aerial. The main hassle was the wait to have van fixed - 6 months.
Nice to see such a great set of replies.
Dmaxer; my awning setup is similar to yours except I don't use side guys. I use *serious* steel pegs driven in at about 45d and then a strong tent peg at 90d across and in front of the main peg to prevent (hopefully) it being pulled forward.
I set one end of the awning two notches below the other which equates to one end being about 50mm lower than the other, anything less and I find the water pools.
When the BOM forecast winds of more than 30kph I take the awning down - a very rough rule of thumb is that gusts may be up to twice the constant wind speed. If I were in a very exposed place (beach maybe?) I'd probably drop that number to 20/25kph but I usually camp in forests and the trees offer some protection.
by leaving the awning arms attached to the van but also with guy ropes for added security it is easy to roll the awning up quickly if needed. Experience taught us how difficult it can be to get the arms back onto the van when its windy. Rain is not such a problem but its not good lying in bed at night wondering if the wind will die down then deciding you need to roll up the awning to stop worrying and get to sleep.
Have seen some funny and not so funny sites with people struggling in wind and rain in the middle of the night in their night attire - easier to do it before bedtime and in daylight
-- Edited by villatranquilla on Thursday 10th of December 2020 11:53:05 AM
I have a carefree awning
I previously had a fiamma awning, the bookwork on the fiamma awning said
It was only a sunshade, and not to be used in wind or rain (or words to that effect)
The fiamma awning was destroyed at Greens Lake (Victoria near Rochester), in the wind, that did not destroy any other type of awnings
I use steel coach bolts 10mm dia X 250mm length, with a spring to take up any slack, (as my stakes)
Instead of guy ropes I use ratchet tie down straps
I also have rafters, to ensure that rain does not accumulate on top of the awning, plus shade cloth sides, to stop morning and afternoon sun
If a storm is forecast, then I will take the carefree awning in, otherwise it stays out, as it appears to be fairly robust
I don't use my awning at all, after a couple of instances, whereby a rogue gust of wind, blew it over the van, and once went to sleep unintentionally, early and woke up to a gale force winds and nearly lost it again. So it is not used. Was going to remove it and just use a sail track awning, which we had on out last van and never blew away, but am selling the van soon and going back to an hardfloor camper. I think the awnings are a waste of money. You have to be on the ball with them all the time, and all I want to do when c.vanning is relax.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 10th of December 2020 04:30:09 PM
Another point perhaps worth noting, is that double the windspeed = four times the force.
Joe.
Mine's pretty relaxed too :)
I care for my awning but it's not free
I also use 2 guy ropes each end. I also put one in the middle of the awning roller, just take the pin out of a hinge as this section fits in the channel, drill hole in the hinge section to accommodate an S hook, the rope fits to that.
I think you will know when to wind the awning in, my wife tells me as she also refuses to get out of bed in the early, or late hours!!
Dick.
I mentioned on another post to make sure you check the awning rail brackets top and bottom attached to the van. My awning wasn't rolling up evenly.
I noticed the top bracket hex head screws with slot head was loose allowing the rail to move in and out. Would have been nice coming off at 90ks.
Now I check regularly!!
-- Edited by littledick on Friday 11th of December 2020 10:48:14 AM
Edit, sorry, posted in wrong thread.
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 11th of December 2020 11:01:27 AM
You should see the rain that is coming down today Doug. The end of the awning which has been slanted down looks like Niagara Falls.
Funnily enough, in the middle of the heavy shower a couple pulled up further down, unhitched the van in the rain and before retiring inside to dry off, you guessed it, they put their awning out.
My awning must be an inspiration, or anyway, that is what I think.
Another tip Dmaxer (might be too late?):
Under the waterfall at the low end place a bucket even if you don't wish to catch the water, it stops the waterfall digging a hole and splattering mud everywhere.
I too use two spring loaded guy ropes at each end of the awning. Springs are critical on all guys. One guy (at each end) is attached to the roller/rafter with a clip & the other to a fixed saddle on the diagonal arm.
The guy ropes attached to the rafter go out at 45 degrees to the van wall and the ones on the diagonal arms are run back towards each other parallel with the rafter. I haven't seen anyone else use this configuration but it reduces the load on the join between the rafter & the arm. One less rope to trip over too. Which reminds me .. I slide a piece of white conduit over the ground end of the guys to reduce the risk of tripping.
For pegs I use extra long coach bolts set at 45 degrees too. I leave the bottom end of the diagonal arms attached to the side of the van unless installing the annex walls. Angles are all important.
I always have the awning end furthest from the entrance door two notches lower than the other to facilitate water run off. It's a good idea to tension the top arm from the van to the rafter so that it has no end play & wont go thump thump during the night. It also ensures that the vinyl fabric is tight to avoid pooling.
I don't use the extra rafters, but would if the awning material was stretched. The anti flappers that I have used were useless but a rafter running along the ends of the awning would be good I think.
Whenever there is the slightest hint or forecast of wind, I wind it in .. particularly in the evening of if leaving the van unattended.
ps. That's a good idea to use a deconstructed hinge to position a guy in the centre of the rafter when not using a privacy screen.
I'm not so keen.
The channel along the roller is not intended to be a load bearing area and a guy rope so positioned may end up taking a *lot* of strain and possibly rupture the channel.