Looking at fitting sway control to our caravan -- can any one recommend or otherwise a product - EAZ lift screw on sway control
Cheers
Russ
PeterD said
05:19 PM Mar 10, 2021
Are those available through an Australian agent yet?
Mike196 said
07:29 PM Mar 10, 2021
Mechanical or Electronic?
Mike Harding said
07:36 PM Mar 10, 2021
Are such devices really necessary? That's a question not a challenge.
I've towed my 2.8T, 2 axle van over most of Victoria and southern NSW for the past two years of living on the road without any additions just the caravan hanging on the towball and I have never had a sway issue. I never tow above about 90kph. Maybe other vans tow differently but my Snowy River SR-19 seems pretty stable.
rgren2 said
07:36 PM Mar 10, 2021
I have the Al-ko fitted. Wouldnt be without it.
Eaglemax said
07:48 PM Mar 10, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
Are such devices really necessary? That's a question not a challenge.
I've towed my 2.8T, 2 axle van over most of Victoria and southern NSW for the past two years of living on the road without any additions just the caravan hanging on the towball and I have never had a sway issue. I never tow above about 90kph. Maybe other vans tow differently but my Snowy River SR-19 seems pretty stable.
I agree Mike but in fairness some rigs don't handle well.
With only 1000kg atm and 85kg on the ball I don't have sway.
Tony
yobarr said
08:08 PM Mar 10, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
Are such devices really necessary? That's a question not a challenge.
I've towed my 2.8T, 2 axle van over most of Victoria and southern NSW for the past two years of living on the road without any additions just the caravan hanging on the towball and I have never had a sway issue. I never tow above about 90kph. Maybe other vans tow differently but my Snowy River SR-19 seems pretty stable.
Mike,I certainly agree with you.With a well set-up vehicle that is HEAVIER than the van it is towing,(ESSENTIAL) a reasonably competent driver,half an understanding of physics,and a little bit of common sense,these so-called 'safety devices' would not be 'needed'.If you get your weights right,learn to drive,keep your speeds down to a safe level,and don't worry about "keeping up with the Jones'",there is about as much sense in fitting one of these as there is in using a WDH.Both are designed to make a vehicle do things for which it never was designed.If you can tell us about both your car and your van,perhaps experienced members,who have an understanding of weights,can give some useful advice to you? Cheers
RussandSandy said
08:13 PM Mar 10, 2021
Hi to All
we have a Pajero 2020/21 and will be towing a 2006 Supreme spirit 22.6ft caravan
all help is appreciated
Thanks
Russ
yobarr said
08:36 PM Mar 10, 2021
RussandSandy wrote:
Hi to All
we have a Pajero 2020/21 and will be towing a 2006 Supreme spirit 22.6ft caravan
all help is appreciated
Thanks.Russ
Hi Russell...To give any useful help,we need to know what is written on your van's compliance plate,usually found in the front boot of said van. 1)ATM 2) Tare weight 3) Axle load carrying capacity. Without such details it is difficult to offer any specific advice,but,put bluntly,the van seems to be beyond the abilities of your car,which cannot SAFELY tow more than 2500kg ATM.My (quick) research suggests that your van exceeds this weight, but,for your sake,I hope that I am wrong! There is NO WAY that your car can SAFELY tow the claimed 3000kg as a PIG trailer (van). Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 10th of March 2021 08:37:55 PM
KevinC said
09:35 PM Mar 10, 2021
Are such devices really necessary?
Well not if you can guarantee that your travels will never be interrupted by any misfortune like for example, a need to brake suddenly, a need to swerve, a blowout. Cemeteries are full of people who were very safe drivers but got caught out by some event over which they had no control. Any time you have to change direction quickly the van can sway. It's just physics. No amount of packing, weight distribution, or years of safe driving will prevent it. I don't use electronic sway control to enable me to drive harder or faster, but if something falls off a truck in front of me as I'm driving, maybe the sway control will help me stay in control. When we bought our last van I opted for the best ESC system I could find. To me it's more important than the breakaway brake system which is legislated. But that's only my thoughts.
landy said
09:47 PM Mar 10, 2021
rgren2 wrote:
I have the Al-ko fitted. Wouldnt be without it.
When we had our latest van built we had the Dexter system put on as part of the build for very little extra cash.
So far after towing it for nearly 30,000 Ks it has been great, even when being passed by large truck's and road trains you cant feel the van move what so ever.
I believe Dexter is now handled in Australia by Al-ko as well as selling there own system.
Possum3 said
11:20 PM Mar 10, 2021
Dexter for me as well - Previously Had ALKO ESC - experienced many problems (electrical and mechanical) that could not be rectified. It could be that the manufacturer was just incompetent regarding the unit - but after several disastrous incidents I changed vans and yes the dealer was advised of the problems.
I now have Dexter Anti-sway, so much more control and do not have to disconnect to reverse or travel on gravel road.
RussandSandy said
04:43 PM Mar 11, 2021
Peter
on ebay
oldbloke said
05:57 PM Mar 11, 2021
If experienced driver and van set up well, a good thing for the "un-expected. For example a roo jumps out in front of you. But not necessary.
However, for the inexperienced or poorly set up rig a great option. I Have an alko, came with the van.
yobarr said
07:17 PM Mar 11, 2021
oldbloke wrote:
If experienced driver and van set up well, a good thing for the "un-expected. For example a roo jumps out in front of you. But not necessary. However, for the inexperienced or poorly set up rig a great option. I Have an alko, came with the van.
"But not necessary" "...for the inexperienced or poorly set up...". At last,someone is talking sense.Cheers
landy said
10:18 PM Mar 11, 2021
yobarr wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
If experienced driver and van set up well, a good thing for the "un-expected. For example a roo jumps out in front of you. But not necessary. However, for the inexperienced or poorly set up rig a great option. I Have an alko, came with the van.
"But not necessary" "...for the inexperienced or poorly set up...". At last,someone is talking sense.Cheers
The way I look at it is, it is like a lot of the safety features that you have on new cars. You hope you never need them but if they save you once there worth every cent.
stevep1 said
11:07 PM Mar 11, 2021
Hi Russ, weight distribution and limits with your tow setup are as important as the sway control device.
As far as the electronic type go there is ALKO, Dexter, and maybe others. These were the only two around when I installed mine.
They have motion and sway sensors and are usually mounted under the van. When you have a sway situation they apply the caravan brakes.
Alko applies all van brakes simultaneously. Dexter applies all brakes, but in a sequence that works against the direction of sway.(also detects rough roads and turns itself off)
They both work well. I have Dexter and am happy with the extra features.
Cheers,Stevep
Mike Harding said
07:22 AM Mar 12, 2021
How can you tell if a sway control system is working?
I'm sure they do self tests and a little green LED lights or something but how can you confirm it actually *detects* sway and applies the brakes?
dorian said
07:54 AM Mar 12, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
How can you tell if a sway control system is working?
I'm sure they do self tests and a little green LED lights or something but how can you confirm it actually *detects* sway and applies the brakes?
That would make an interesting project.
Nevd said
09:00 AM Mar 12, 2021
For all of the naysayers and non-believers out there, here is an extract from an article about a caravan crash on a divided highway in Qld -
"They had bought the caravan new nearly 10 years ago and travelled all over Queensland with no issues. He was returning home to Brisbane when coming down the Cooroy Hill some bumps started to unsettle the van. " Result was a totally destroyed car & van. Not the first time I have read a similar comment.
No matter how good you think you are, and how good your setup is, there just may be a time when it comes in very handy.
Would you travel without insurance? I certainly hope not.
Would you buy a car without ABS or anti-sway? Not these days.
BTW the way, I also have the Dexter system, after doing copious research, I am convinced it's a better product than the ALKO system (or at least was at the time).
-- Edited by Nevd on Friday 12th of March 2021 09:02:14 AM
Aus-Kiwi said
12:24 PM Mar 12, 2021
Yes just be aware we are not using tech to overcome bad suspension, tyres balance, weight etc . Often its the driver going too fast, turning too sharp ! With no concern of the van on back . One big difference to motorhome. You know whats going on inside our home !! Btw Im a rev head . Love a good drive ! But this is NOT the time for racing ! Let the other vehicles pass ! Enjoy the journey !! Relax ! Ahhh !
Greg 1 said
12:56 PM Mar 12, 2021
I don't have ESC on the current van, but after having the opportunity to test drive a rig in controlled conditions with it on, I am seriously considering fitting it.
For all you naysayers, modern technology can get even the most experienced driver out of trouble in a given set of circumstances. Remember that all of us towing vans are actually doing something with our vehicles that they really were not intended to do. I don't care how well balanced your rig is or how good a driver you are, there can come a time when things turn pear shaped and every bit of assistance is needed to avoid a catastrophe.
Mike196 said
01:12 PM Mar 12, 2021
Got a new Van coming in May and it's booked in for an AL-KO unit day after delivery, along with a DO35 hitch and some wiring on the tow car. Rather have it and not need it, than "Gee I wish I'd had that yesterday"!!
Aus-Kiwi said
04:05 PM Mar 12, 2021
Im deff not against modern tech . Just dont fit it to overcome a bad set up . I fitted elect brakes to car carrying trailer it has stability control included .
oldbloke said
05:09 PM Mar 12, 2021
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Yes just be aware we are not using tech to overcome bad suspension, tyres balance, weight etc . Often its the driver going too fast, turning too sharp ! With no concern of the van on back . One big difference to motorhome. You know whats going on inside our home !! Btw Im a rev head . Love a good drive ! But this is NOT the time for racing ! Let the other vehicles pass ! Enjoy the journey !! Relax ! Ahhh !
Correct. I just arrived at Tweed Heads today. (No van this trip) Drove across country through the ranges near Inverell etc.
One van I followed kept pulling away from me like he had a death wish. (at least a 20'). After about 50km he was rather suddenly holding me up even though I was in no hurry. My bet is he had a bloody fright. Lol
bomurra said
07:57 PM Mar 12, 2021
Hi Russ,
The friction type device that you mentioned in your original post, will be of very little use in controlling dangerous sway with a 22 ft van, the forces involved are simply too great.
As mentioned by a number of other responders, a better solution would be one of the ESC Electronic Stability Control systems that applies the caravan brakes autonomously when it senses sway. There are a number of different manufacturers on the market now and they all offer an extra layer of safety to your towing experience.
They use electronic devices (accelerometers) to sense sway, which triggers the system to apply the caravan brakes autonomously, usually at a predetermined level of about 30% of full brake performance, so you will know if you ever trigger the system. Triggering the ESC usually takes 3 signals from the sensor of 0.3G in quick succession, or one signal of 0.5G.
Early systems like Alco- trigger the brakes on all braked wheels, later generation systems like Dexter- alternate the braking signal between left hand and right hand wheels to counter the sway, then you have others like Lippert- who use a combination of an accelerometer and a gyro sensor to alleviate false triggers when in rough terrain etc.
I currently have an Alco system, thankfully never triggered it, but if I was in your position now, I would go with the Lippert or Dexter for the more modern technology.
Do your research and choose the one that meets your needs the best, they will all work and could save your life one day.
Hope this helps
Bob
oldbloke said
08:57 PM Mar 12, 2021
Interesting. See "How they work". More to them than I thought.
Yes, good question, I would like to know that one myself .
How do you know the ESC is working correctly when needed in an emergency ?
I have a new caravan arriving in April with the Alco ESC being fitted by the dealer ( and not by the manufacturer ) and was wondering how to get it tested to see that it is functioning as is should under a sway situation.
After reading these posts I will make a few enquiries with Alco, hopefully they will be able to give me some answers?
One of the reasons for purchasing the ESC is that I will be loaning my Caravan to some of my children to take away so i wanted every safety device know to man fitted to the caravan for their safety and my grandchildren.
I have driven trailers , caravans before so I understand correct weight distribution, safe speed limits ETC ETC but for an inexperienced caravan user I think ESC is a must until they get some real caravan driving Ks under their belts.
Oldvanman
oldbloke said
03:16 PM Jan 29, 2022
Hi oldvanman,
Mid December last I was driving along a secondary Rd in Vic doing about 85kph. The road was not the greatest bit of bitumen I've been on.
A B double over took me at speed and I was forced to head for the dirt so to speak. (Arrogant impatient bastard).
At the time I felt a "tug". I'm guessing the ESC kick in.
Mamil said
04:54 PM Jan 29, 2022
Hi Russ,
Some modern vehicles with their whizzbang electronics use the capabilities already built into the ABS and DSC (dynamic stability control) systems to prevent trailer sway automatically.
I don't know if your Pajero has this function, but if it does it may be that it's not necessary to have an independent system on the trailer as well. In fact I've even wondered if having two independent systems trying to reduce trailer sway might somehow interfere with each other and make things worse?
Anyway, here's what my car manual says about that function...
Hi to All
Looking at fitting sway control to our caravan -- can any one recommend or otherwise a product - EAZ lift screw on sway control
Cheers
Russ
Mechanical or Electronic?
Are such devices really necessary? That's a question not a challenge.
I've towed my 2.8T, 2 axle van over most of Victoria and southern NSW for the past two years of living on the road without any additions just the caravan hanging on the towball and I have never had a sway issue. I never tow above about 90kph. Maybe other vans tow differently but my Snowy River SR-19 seems pretty stable.
I agree Mike but in fairness some rigs don't handle well.
With only 1000kg atm and 85kg on the ball I don't have sway.
Tony
Mike,I certainly agree with you.With a well set-up vehicle that is HEAVIER than the van it is towing,(ESSENTIAL) a reasonably competent driver,half an understanding of physics,and a little bit of common sense,these so-called 'safety devices' would not be 'needed'.If you get your weights right,learn to drive,keep your speeds down to a safe level,and don't worry about "keeping up with the Jones'",there is about as much sense in fitting one of these as there is in using a WDH.Both are designed to make a vehicle do things for which it never was designed.If you can tell us about both your car and your van,perhaps experienced members,who have an understanding of weights,can give some useful advice to you? Cheers
we have a Pajero 2020/21 and will be towing a 2006 Supreme spirit 22.6ft caravan
all help is appreciated
Thanks
Russ
Hi Russell...To give any useful help,we need to know what is written on your van's compliance plate,usually found in the front boot of said van. 1)ATM 2) Tare weight 3) Axle load carrying capacity. Without such details it is difficult to offer any specific advice,but,put bluntly,the van seems to be beyond the abilities of your car,which cannot SAFELY tow more than 2500kg ATM.My (quick) research suggests that your van exceeds this weight, but,for your sake,I hope that I am wrong! There is NO WAY that your car can SAFELY tow the claimed 3000kg as a PIG trailer (van). Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 10th of March 2021 08:37:55 PM
Well not if you can guarantee that your travels will never be interrupted by any misfortune like for example, a need to brake suddenly, a need to swerve, a blowout. Cemeteries are full of people who were very safe drivers but got caught out by some event over which they had no control. Any time you have to change direction quickly the van can sway. It's just physics. No amount of packing, weight distribution, or years of safe driving will prevent it. I don't use electronic sway control to enable me to drive harder or faster, but if something falls off a truck in front of me as I'm driving, maybe the sway control will help me stay in control. When we bought our last van I opted for the best ESC system I could find. To me it's more important than the breakaway brake system which is legislated. But that's only my thoughts.
When we had our latest van built we had the Dexter system put on as part of the build for very little extra cash.
So far after towing it for nearly 30,000 Ks it has been great, even when being passed by large truck's and road trains
you cant feel the van move what so ever.
I believe Dexter is now handled in Australia by Al-ko as well as selling there own system.
I now have Dexter Anti-sway, so much more control and do not have to disconnect to reverse or travel on gravel road.
Peter
on ebay
However, for the inexperienced or poorly set up rig a great option. I Have an alko, came with the van.
"But not necessary" "...for the inexperienced or poorly set up...". At last,someone is talking sense.Cheers
The way I look at it is, it is like a lot of the safety features that you have on new cars. You hope you never need them but if they save you once there worth every cent.
As far as the electronic type go there is ALKO, Dexter, and maybe others. These were the only two around when I installed mine.
They have motion and sway sensors and are usually mounted under the van. When you have a sway situation they apply the caravan brakes.
Alko applies all van brakes simultaneously. Dexter applies all brakes, but in a sequence that works against the direction of sway.(also detects rough roads and turns itself off)
They both work well. I have Dexter and am happy with the extra features.
Cheers,Stevep
How can you tell if a sway control system is working?
I'm sure they do self tests and a little green LED lights or something but how can you confirm it actually *detects* sway and applies the brakes?
That would make an interesting project.
For all of the naysayers and non-believers out there, here is an extract from an article about a caravan crash on a divided highway in Qld -
"They had bought the caravan new nearly 10 years ago and travelled all over Queensland with no issues. He was returning home to Brisbane when coming down the Cooroy Hill some bumps started to unsettle the van. " Result was a totally destroyed car & van. Not the first time I have read a similar comment.
No matter how good you think you are, and how good your setup is, there just may be a time when it comes in very handy.
Would you travel without insurance? I certainly hope not.
Would you buy a car without ABS or anti-sway? Not these days.
BTW the way, I also have the Dexter system, after doing copious research, I am convinced it's a better product than the ALKO system (or at least was at the time).
-- Edited by Nevd on Friday 12th of March 2021 09:02:14 AM
Got a new Van coming in May and it's booked in for an AL-KO unit day after delivery, along with a DO35 hitch and some wiring on the tow car. Rather have it and not need it, than "Gee I wish I'd had that yesterday"!!
Correct. I just arrived at Tweed Heads today. (No van this trip) Drove across country through the ranges near Inverell etc.
One van I followed kept pulling away from me like he had a death wish. (at least a 20'). After about 50km he was rather suddenly holding me up even though I was in no hurry. My bet is he had a bloody fright. Lol
Hi Russ,
The friction type device that you mentioned in your original post, will be of very little use in controlling dangerous sway with a 22 ft van, the forces involved are simply too great.
As mentioned by a number of other responders, a better solution would be one of the ESC Electronic Stability Control systems that applies the caravan brakes autonomously when it senses sway. There are a number of different manufacturers on the market now and they all offer an extra layer of safety to your towing experience.
They use electronic devices (accelerometers) to sense sway, which triggers the system to apply the caravan brakes autonomously, usually at a predetermined level of about 30% of full brake performance, so you will know if you ever trigger the system. Triggering the ESC usually takes 3 signals from the sensor of 0.3G in quick succession, or one signal of 0.5G.
Early systems like Alco- trigger the brakes on all braked wheels, later generation systems like Dexter- alternate the braking signal between left hand and right hand wheels to counter the sway, then you have others like Lippert- who use a combination of an accelerometer and a gyro sensor to alleviate false triggers when in rough terrain etc.
I currently have an Alco system, thankfully never triggered it, but if I was in your position now, I would go with the Lippert or Dexter for the more modern technology.
Do your research and choose the one that meets your needs the best, they will all work and could save your life one day.
Hope this helps
Bob
www.livescience.com/40102-accelerometers.html
Yes, good question, I would like to know that one myself .
How do you know the ESC is working correctly when needed in an emergency ?
I have a new caravan arriving in April with the Alco ESC being fitted by the dealer ( and not by the manufacturer ) and was wondering how to get it tested to see that it is functioning as is should under a sway situation.
After reading these posts I will make a few enquiries with Alco, hopefully they will be able to give me some answers?
One of the reasons for purchasing the ESC is that I will be loaning my Caravan to some of my children to take away so i wanted every safety device know to man fitted to the caravan for their safety and my grandchildren.
I have driven trailers , caravans before so I understand correct weight distribution, safe speed limits ETC ETC but for an inexperienced caravan user I think ESC is a must until they get some real caravan driving Ks under their belts.
Oldvanman
Hi oldvanman,
Mid December last I was driving along a secondary Rd in Vic doing about 85kph. The road was not the greatest bit of bitumen I've been on.
A B double over took me at speed and I was forced to head for the dirt so to speak. (Arrogant impatient bastard).
At the time I felt a "tug". I'm guessing the ESC kick in.
Hi Russ,
Some modern vehicles with their whizzbang electronics use the capabilities already built into the ABS and DSC (dynamic stability control) systems to prevent trailer sway automatically.
I don't know if your Pajero has this function, but if it does it may be that it's not necessary to have an independent system on the trailer as well. In fact I've even wondered if having two independent systems trying to reduce trailer sway might somehow interfere with each other and make things worse?
Anyway, here's what my car manual says about that function...