4 hours burning and they were still able to download data. I just cant fathom why we need driverless cars.. Also seems strange that Tesla got the info and not a state investigative authority...
rgren2 said
08:43 PM Apr 20, 2021
The Tesla cars constantly upload data back to the company.
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:22 PM Apr 20, 2021
Driver-less is one issue, the other is eVs. Is this the type of experience that people will have in electric vehicles with the special higher voltage, lithium batteries when they are involved with crashes?
Clarky 1 said
10:47 PM Apr 20, 2021
When I heard that news report I could not believe that anyone was silly or maybe trusting enough to travel in a car without having the opportunity to have the final control.
My following thoughts were that this technology which at this time has had many failures is being inflicted on innocent members of the community both as people in the cars, people in other cars and nearby pedestrians.
Not for me I am afraid..
Mike Harding said
04:01 AM Apr 21, 2021
I think it will be a very long time before anyone who has written complex software allows a machine to make driving decisions for them.
dorian said
06:04 AM Apr 21, 2021
I can see a use for a technology that assists the driver. For example, how many times have we failed to see a cyclist or motorcyclist or pedestrian? In such cases the car's computer could override the driver and avoid a fatal accident.
Mike Harding said
06:42 AM Apr 21, 2021
dorian wrote:
I can see a use for a technology that assists the driver. For example, how many times have we failed to see a cyclist or motorcyclist or pedestrian? In such cases the car's computer could override the driver and avoid a fatal accident.
You mean something like the software in the Boeing 737 Max 8?
dorian said
06:54 AM Apr 21, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
dorian wrote:
I can see a use for a technology that assists the driver. For example, how many times have we failed to see a cyclist or motorcyclist or pedestrian? In such cases the car's computer could override the driver and avoid a fatal accident.
You mean something like the software in the Boeing 737 Max 8?
If the computer applies the brakes, then it's unlikely to cause a problem. If it swerves to avoid the other party, then you're in the hands of the programmer.
In any case, I recall a couple of air disasters, or near disasters, that occurred when the pilots ignored the computer or switched off the autopilot.
BTW, modern airplanes are able to land on their own, even with a dead pilot in the ****pit.
AISI, it's a case of balancing risks and benefits. I personally wouldn't want my car doing the driving, but my younger, more reckless self may have benefited from it.
Edit:
What if we were to reach a point where we become so frail that we no longer qualify for a driving licence? Could driverless cars be the solution for us?
-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 21st of April 2021 07:21:45 AM
peter67 said
09:54 AM Apr 21, 2021
Anyway back to the battery fire. A lot of energy hidden inside a vehicle and almost impossible to extinguish...very unsafe for anyone trapped in the car, or near the accident, and after hours (lots of smoke and pollution, major traffic jams)and it apparently burns itself out, what if it reignites on the tow truck? or in the insurance companies write off strorage building?
Greg 1 said
10:49 AM Apr 21, 2021
This has become an issue in the US with Tesla's to the point where the towies don't like them as they have been known to ignite on the back of a tilt tray taking out the truck with them.
This not the first Tesla to ignite following a crash.
Motorsport is having to develop a whole new approach to dealing with EV's due to this problem with batteries igniting following a prang.
It's a brave new world out there.
As far as technology goes, there is no way known that I want a computer taking over any aspect of the driving for me. Many pilots do not like the Airbus for the reason that the computer flies the plane. The pilot makes requests of the computer. This means that in the event of an emergency, if the pilot requests a manoeuvre that the computer doesn't like it won't do it. There have been a couple of crashes of Airbus's that have been assessed as might have been avoided if the pilot had complete control.
Boeing are obviously going that way too with the Max 8. We can see how successful that was.
People think that computers are marvellous and in many ways they are, but they are very much an imperfect science that are a very handy tool but should never be placed in a position of making life or death decisions.
Craig1 said
11:15 AM Apr 21, 2021
Is it only a Tesla that burns that bad?
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:25 AM Apr 21, 2021
peter67 wrote:
Anyway back to the battery fire. A lot of energy hidden inside a vehicle and almost impossible to extinguish...very unsafe for anyone trapped in the car, or near the accident, and after hours (lots of smoke and pollution, major traffic jams)and it apparently burns itself out, what if it reignites on the tow truck? or in the insurance companies write off strorage building?
Same energy in the fuel tank of every car and the result is similar if it catches fire (which they often do), but that does not make the headlines like something new.
Cheers,
Peter
Whenarewethere said
12:01 PM Apr 21, 2021
Some 737 have crashed due to poor software, but others like QF32 stayed in the air even after almost catastrophic damage with multiple systems destroyed. I read Richard De Crespigny's book QF32.
The amount of redundancy that large aeroplanes have is amazing. Even as basic as fuel falling from the wing fuel tanks into the engines with gravity for about 2 hours.
Hopefully enough time to workout how to get the aeroplane on the ground one way or another reasonably safely.
The issue with cars seems to be not enough redundancy in systems to avoid crashing. Currently cars still need a backup system called a human. Some humuns may not be brilliant but probably better than no human!
Buzz Lightbulb said
02:55 PM Apr 21, 2021
I saw that crash on the news. The coppers said that it was illegal for the car to be used without a human being the responsible driver. I think it's the same in Australia. I certainly wouldn't trust an autonomous car to drive me unsupervised.
I guess that those two who died were breaking the law. Another couple of idiots off the road to make it safer for the rest of us.
Aus-Kiwi said
05:13 PM Apr 21, 2021
Darwin working here !!
peter67 said
06:58 PM Apr 21, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
peter67 wrote:
Anyway back to the battery fire. A lot of energy hidden inside a vehicle and almost impossible to extinguish...very unsafe for anyone trapped in the car, or near the accident, and after hours (lots of smoke and pollution, major traffic jams)and it apparently burns itself out, what if it reignites on the tow truck? or in the insurance companies write off strorage building?
Same energy in the fuel tank of every car and the result is similar if it catches fire (which they often do), but that does not make the headlines like something new.
Cheers,
Peter
You may be right Pete, but the petrol is now outside the vehicle where it is easily dealt with by emergency people, perhaps even other drivers with fire extinguishers.
ps I wonder what happens during the initial period of melt down and circuits start shorting giving the vehicle all sorts of commands eg "time to floor it" or lock the doors maybe, who knows? and if it burns for hours that area will be up for some serious road repairs.
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:22 PM Apr 21, 2021
You don't "deal with" 50 or 100L of burning petrol or diesel with a few 'toy' fire extinguishers.
Cheers,
Peter
Dicko1 said
07:51 AM Apr 22, 2021
peter67 wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
peter67 wrote:
Anyway back to the battery fire. A lot of energy hidden inside a vehicle and almost impossible to extinguish...very unsafe for anyone trapped in the car, or near the accident, and after hours (lots of smoke and pollution, major traffic jams)and it apparently burns itself out, what if it reignites on the tow truck? or in the insurance companies write off strorage building?
Same energy in the fuel tank of every car and the result is similar if it catches fire (which they often do), but that does not make the headlines like something new.
Cheers,
Peter
You may be right Pete, but the petrol is now outside the vehicle where it is easily dealt with by emergency people, perhaps even other drivers with fire extinguishers.
ps I wonder what happens during the initial period of melt down and circuits start shorting giving the vehicle all sorts of commands eg "time to floor it" or lock the doors maybe, who knows? and if it burns for hours that area will be up for some serious road repairs.
Possibly the command.....'show driver error" is imprinted in the ecu and all other info wiped....absolving the car of any malfunction!!!....or am I just cynical?
Derek Barnes said
08:20 AM Apr 22, 2021
At present I would never trust a computer in the car to drive it for me. We have turned off the automatic driver assist technology in our car which moves you back on the road if the car thinks that you are moving out of your lane, because the car gets it wrong all the time. We have noticed that if the sun is directly in front of us, the car often warns us that we are moving out of our lane even if we are directly in the centre of the lane. Sensors and car computers will have to get a whole lot more reliable before I will trust them. Also the shoddy navigation systems we have to put up with in Australia would make automatic car navigation a nightmare. There is one motel in Hobart where the car navigator consistently tells us to drive up to the cliff behind the motel and drive off it rather than enter the motel at the front.
Rob Driver said
08:50 AM Apr 22, 2021
Electric cars are one thing and we all may argue for and against if we want, but to try to build a car that will drive itself without the final decision of human input is, at least for the present moment, just downright stupidity.
As stated above, our GPS systems alone would have to improved somewhat to even have the car drive out of our driveways.
I am currently thinking of buying a new car (not a 79) and will be making serious enquiries about the installed systems of lane departure, bicycle detection, and some others as well.
Fire in any vehicle can be intense but by the reports, this one was very severe. Maybe there were other factors.
Regards
Rob
Mike196 said
09:30 AM Apr 22, 2021
Latest report on this is a statement from Tesla claiming the car can't be driven without someone in the drivers seat, the rescue people attending said that components in the lithium battery kept reigniting for quite a long while.
Greg 1 said
11:32 AM Apr 22, 2021
Lithium batteries are well known for their combustible nature and that is why there are heavy restrictions on the carriage of them on aircraft. Even relatively safe versions such as power tool batteries. Two maximum per person and the terminals taped. Must be carried as cabin luggage not in the hold.
There are good reasons for that as Tesla's demonstrate quite regularly.
dorian said
12:57 PM Apr 22, 2021
I read one of the comments in that Washington Post story.
"The fire was put out in 2 or 3 minutes. Unfortunately the Washington post like many others use sensationalist reporting. "
"TX fire chief slams inaccurate Tesla crash coverage with firsthand details on Model S fire as quoted below:"
"With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew way out of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants. After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage."
Dicko1 said
02:45 PM Apr 22, 2021
dorian wrote:
I read one of the comments in that Washington Post story.
"The fire was put out in 2 or 3 minutes. Unfortunately the Washington post like many others use sensationalist reporting. "
"TX fire chief slams inaccurate Tesla crash coverage with firsthand details on Model S fire as quoted below:"
"With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew way out of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants. After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage."
Bloody facts!!!! Just ruined a good thread....lol.
2 people dead as well
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/19/tesla-texas-driverless-crash/
4 hours burning and they were still able to download data. I just cant fathom why we need driverless cars.. Also seems strange that Tesla got the info and not a state investigative authority...
The Tesla cars constantly upload data back to the company.
My following thoughts were that this technology which at this time has had many failures is being inflicted on innocent members of the community both as people in the cars, people in other cars and nearby pedestrians.
Not for me I am afraid..
I think it will be a very long time before anyone who has written complex software allows a machine to make driving decisions for them.
You mean something like the software in the Boeing 737 Max 8?
If the computer applies the brakes, then it's unlikely to cause a problem. If it swerves to avoid the other party, then you're in the hands of the programmer.
In any case, I recall a couple of air disasters, or near disasters, that occurred when the pilots ignored the computer or switched off the autopilot.
BTW, modern airplanes are able to land on their own, even with a dead pilot in the ****pit.
AISI, it's a case of balancing risks and benefits. I personally wouldn't want my car doing the driving, but my younger, more reckless self may have benefited from it.
Edit:
What if we were to reach a point where we become so frail that we no longer qualify for a driving licence? Could driverless cars be the solution for us?
-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 21st of April 2021 07:21:45 AM
Same energy in the fuel tank of every car and the result is similar if it catches fire (which they often do), but that does not make the headlines like something new.
Cheers,
Peter
Some 737 have crashed due to poor software, but others like QF32 stayed in the air even after almost catastrophic damage with multiple systems destroyed. I read Richard De Crespigny's book QF32.
The amount of redundancy that large aeroplanes have is amazing. Even as basic as fuel falling from the wing fuel tanks into the engines with gravity for about 2 hours.
Hopefully enough time to workout how to get the aeroplane on the ground one way or another reasonably safely.
The issue with cars seems to be not enough redundancy in systems to avoid crashing. Currently cars still need a backup system called a human. Some humuns may not be brilliant but probably better than no human!
I saw that crash on the news. The coppers said that it was illegal for the car to be used without a human being the responsible driver. I think it's the same in Australia. I certainly wouldn't trust an autonomous car to drive me unsupervised.
I guess that those two who died were breaking the law. Another couple of idiots off the road to make it safer for the rest of us.
You may be right Pete, but the petrol is now outside the vehicle where it is easily dealt with by emergency people, perhaps even other drivers with fire extinguishers.
ps I wonder what happens during the initial period of melt down and circuits start shorting giving the vehicle all sorts of commands eg "time to floor it" or lock the doors maybe, who knows? and if it burns for hours that area will be up for some serious road repairs.
Cheers,
Peter
Possibly the command.....'show driver error" is imprinted in the ecu and all other info wiped....absolving the car of any malfunction!!!....or am I just cynical?
At present I would never trust a computer in the car to drive it for me. We have turned off the automatic driver assist technology in our car which moves you back on the road if the car thinks that you are moving out of your lane, because the car gets it wrong all the time. We have noticed that if the sun is directly in front of us, the car often warns us that we are moving out of our lane even if we are directly in the centre of the lane. Sensors and car computers will have to get a whole lot more reliable before I will trust them. Also the shoddy navigation systems we have to put up with in Australia would make automatic car navigation a nightmare. There is one motel in Hobart where the car navigator consistently tells us to drive up to the cliff behind the motel and drive off it rather than enter the motel at the front.
As stated above, our GPS systems alone would have to improved somewhat to even have the car drive out of our driveways.
I am currently thinking of buying a new car (not a 79) and will be making serious enquiries about the installed systems of lane departure, bicycle detection, and some others as well.
Fire in any vehicle can be intense but by the reports, this one was very severe. Maybe there were other factors.
Regards
Rob
Latest report on this is a statement from Tesla claiming the car can't be driven without someone in the drivers seat, the rescue people attending said that components in the lithium battery kept reigniting for quite a long while.
I read one of the comments in that Washington Post story.
"The fire was put out in 2 or 3 minutes. Unfortunately the Washington post like many others use sensationalist reporting. "
"TX fire chief slams inaccurate Tesla crash coverage with firsthand details on Model S fire as quoted below:"
"With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew way out of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants. After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage."
Bloody facts!!!! Just ruined a good thread....lol.
The full story:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/woodlands/article/Woodlands-fire-chief-says-Tesla-fire-example-of-16113029.php
Neither do I.
Major fire was out fairly quickly, but continually flare ups took lots of water over a long period.