Myrtle not sick - My mechanic states normal for her age.
Vic said
10:04 PM Jun 1, 2011
Happywanderer wrote:
Blaze wrote "there is no additive you can put in your engine to help with oil burn" So doesn't that negate the nulon oil treatment Bill mentions??
I am thoroughly reading all info given trying to make sense of it all and decide what to do.
HW, I am no mechanic, but a couple of oil burners which blew smoke in old vehicles I had in the past responded to an oil additive which I assume is similar to Nulon, it was called STP and it DID work. It stopped blowing oil and the excessive oil consumption stopped. It was in a fly spray sized can and the oil had a sticky honey like feel to it. I think it said on the can that it coated the bore and rings and made a good seal for worn rings. You had to add it when the motor was hot, and then drive it around the block, you could literally see the smoke stop blowing as you drove.
This lasted for about 3 months and when the motor started blowing oil again you had to add another can. I was in NSW at the time, that is where I bought the STP. I am basing my comments on use of the product which worked for me. The can also advised not to change your engine oil, only add to it when you had to. Please note this was for old engines.
-- Edited by Vic on Wednesday 1st of June 2011 10:16:10 PM
D-evil-ace said
10:18 PM Jun 1, 2011
Happywanderer wrote:
"I'm worried about going back to the mechanic as he really didn't seem to worried about any of it at all. When I suggested maybe just getting rid of the van, he made the suggestion to at least try to sell it privately rather than trade in as I would get more for it and the buyer wouldn't have any comeback on me if things weren't to their liking."
Hi Marj,
I've been following this saga with interest.
I'm not a mechanic so can't comment on that side.
What I would like to make comment on is what was said by your "mechanic" about selling myrtle privately.
To my mind I feel that his wording of that comment says heaps about his real thoughts on your sad oil problem & his ability as a dependable mechanic.
He is trying to get you to sell myrtle privately, not so that you will get a better price, but rather that it would get him off the hook for not doing his work properly in the first place when/if further problems arise for any new owner.
Don't go back to him. Find another mechanic that is honest.
Good luck & keep us all informed of progress.
Alan
blaze said
11:17 PM Jun 1, 2011
A little story I once had a car nut come to me to seek advice on a miss in his car about 5000 rpm, he went on to tell me the saga he had trying to get it fixed, 4 different mechanics (all good men), each mechanic had performed the same basic checks and replacement of simular parts at a fair expense for the customer. He abused and cursed every mechanic he had the car to, they were no good, bloody rip offs etc. Now I wasnt going to be the 5th mechanic to have his name dragged into the mud so I convinced him to take it back to the last mechanic to further explore the problem. The problem ended up being a slightly bent conrod and a quite expensive fix. The funny thing is that any one of the other three mechanics would have, given the chance, found the problem. So if this guy had stuck with the first mechanic his cost would have been only about 60% of the total cost. Stick with the guy you know HW, not ever mechanic is out to ripp you off. (I have know bloody idea who your mechanic is either) You are also correct that I dont have any faith in ANY ADDITIVE, you cant fix a mechanicl problem by pouring micky mouse juice in it, at best it may mask the problem but still wont fix it. It also cost a bloody forture for the little bottle of magic, just spend the same money on oil and you will be in front cheers blaze
Vic said
11:48 PM Jun 1, 2011
Blaze,
Assuming the vehicle is old and not worth repairing (new rings, worn cylinders etc) even if you use oil instead of an additive, that still doesn't stop the smoke blowing does it (an offence in some states), or do you use a heavier oil ? I am not suggesting HW doesn't get her motor fixed, just stating my experience with STP which could be a temporary fix (if still available) whether masking or not until she can get it attended to.
By the way, when I put my vehicl in for service, they always have a couple of Fortron additives on the bill (not requested by me) are they a waste of time and money? I have been thinking of asking them not to use them, but was unsure of whether they are worthwhile or not.
Regards mechanics, I have been taking my vehicles to the same ones (two in business together, also train apprentices) for about 20 years, have had a couple of hiccups during that time (oil cap left off by a servicing assistant doing the service and oil all over the engine...owner bought his car out to my place and loaned me his car while he took mine and cleaned it up....cap was sitting inside the engine bay where it had been put). Another time wheel nuts not tightened properly....done by me but mentioned next time I went in. I have always found we could resolve any differences although they have been few and far between, and they have given me a few "freebies" over the years which they could have charged for, so all in all have been very happy with their service and they know my vehicle/s inside out. Fair priced and always get good advice from them.
blaze said
12:13 AM Jun 2, 2011
I have seen additives come and go, some make huge claims and others not so great, some of them are sponcered by vehicle or parts manufacturers. If you look at the claims they make and then pull them apart, like it dont matter how thick the coating on the bore is the combustion temp will burn it off, the same as thinner oil burns off. Lets now fix a leaking seal, they leak because they have a physical problem ( tear in the sealing lip, worn lip, got hard, now the additive may well soften the rubber of the seal but it cant repair the damage so it will still leak. I could go on Back to HW problems, it seems we have no or very little visable smoke. So if we burn 4 litres of oil per 1000km (not know the price of woolies oil but lets say $8 per litre), So now we have a figure of $32 per 1000km, I know thats a huge amount but when travelling maybe its only 1000km a month you travel. I dont think your consumtion was quite that high HW ? I wish you was a bit closer so I could have a look. cheers blaze
bill12 said
07:52 AM Jun 2, 2011
Nulon oil treatment will help with the oil consuption, but not for ever. It fills the gaps in the bearings and bring up the oil presure, but is only a short time stop gap to a full motor rebuild, all be it a lot cheaper. I have used it in old motors and it lasts up to 6 months before excessive oil usage returns.I would take your bus to a different RACV dealer as it looks that the other one can,t be trusted.You seem to be getting good assistance from the forum members.
blaze said
07:59 AM Jun 2, 2011
sorry Bill but the bearings have nothing to do with oil consumption, oil consumption is caused by worn rings, pistons and bores or maybe glazed bores. cheers blaze
bill12 said
10:08 AM Jun 2, 2011
As a ticketed marine engineer, I can tell you from first hand experience that some oil additives work, but not for ever.It will bring down oil consuption for a while, but a full rebuild , eg. rings and bearings done by a reasonable mechanic is the way to go. I do my own engine bebuilds, and the present motor has 174000 klms, and uses very little oil.Toyota engines are fairly simple, and done well, a rebuild will last a long time.Nulon, or The STP version is only a stop gap.Get a good mechanic!
Strewth!I,m a Guru.Didnt notice.
-- Edited by bill12 on Thursday 2nd of June 2011 10:10:02 AM
Vic said
10:33 AM Jun 2, 2011
Thanks Blaze and Bill for the feedback, I hope we are not confusing Marg too much. I found the same with the STP Bill, worked for a little while then had to add again a bit later. Got me from Sydney to Melbourne and return in an old bomb that wasn't worth fixing but did the job.
A word of caution here, some unsavoury types "doctor" their engines using STP or similar additives on their vehicles for sale and of course after awhile the prolem shows up after the vehicle has been sold. I hope this is not the case in Marg's purchase and changing the oil has brought the problem to the surface.
Other things can be used to doctor the engine temporarily too as some know.
-- Edited by Vic on Thursday 2nd of June 2011 10:36:33 AM
_wombat_ said
10:37 AM Jun 2, 2011
bill12 wrote:
As a ticketed marine engineer, I can tell you from first hand experience that some oil additives work, but not for ever.It will bring down oil consuption for a while, but a full rebuild , eg. rings and bearings done by a reasonable mechanic is the way to go. I do my own engine bebuilds, and the present motor has 174000 klms, and uses very little oil.Toyota engines are fairly simple, and done well, a rebuild will last a long time.Nulon, or The STP version is only a stop gap.Get a good mechanic!
Strewth!I,m a Guru.Didnt notice.
-- Edited by bill12 on Thursday 2nd of June 2011 10:10:02 AM
Congratulations Guru bill12
bill12 said
11:56 AM Jun 2, 2011
You can address me as your giruness, though I live on Magnetic island , not Giru. Cotowing and bootlicking are optional. Just kidding, folks.
DeBe said
12:14 PM Jun 2, 2011
Heres a pic of a rear crankshaft seal from my wifes car an XF ford 4.1L motor on gas & done 180,000Kms, It was using 500Ml of engine oil in 200Kms. Replaced the seal to fix it, it did coat the underside of the vehicle a bit (rust preventative).
bill12 said
01:01 PM Jun 2, 2011
Did the oil end up on your clutch plate or as a leak under the car? Odviously, you have to remove the motor the fix a rear seal.I suppose Marj can have look under her vehicle.You wouldn,t get a lot ofrust under the car loosing that much oil.
ChiChi1 said
05:42 PM Jun 2, 2011
This is what I had fixed on my van. Only leaking a little but mechanic said it could go anytime. This would probably do the clutch in as well. KEA reimbursed me for it. One thing I found rather silly mechanically was they had to smash and replace the mass fly wheel (lots of money) to replace the $94.00 seal. Sometimes I wonder about vehicle designers.
-- Edited by Vic on Wednesday 1st of June 2011 10:16:10 PM
I once had a car nut come to me to seek advice on a miss in his car about 5000 rpm, he went on to tell me the saga he had trying to get it fixed, 4 different mechanics (all good men), each mechanic had performed the same basic checks and replacement of simular parts at a fair expense for the customer. He abused and cursed every mechanic he had the car to, they were no good, bloody rip offs etc. Now I wasnt going to be the 5th mechanic to have his name dragged into the mud so I convinced him to take it back to the last mechanic to further explore the problem. The problem ended up being a slightly bent conrod and a quite expensive fix. The funny thing is that any one of the other three mechanics would have, given the chance, found the problem. So if this guy had stuck with the first mechanic his cost would have been only about 60% of the total cost. Stick with the guy you know HW, not ever mechanic is out to ripp you off. (I have know bloody idea who your mechanic is either)
You are also correct that I dont have any faith in ANY ADDITIVE, you cant fix a mechanicl problem by pouring micky mouse juice in it, at best it may mask the problem but still wont fix it. It also cost a bloody forture for the little bottle of magic, just spend the same money on oil and you will be in front
cheers
blaze
Assuming the vehicle is old and not worth repairing (new rings, worn cylinders etc) even if you use oil instead of an additive, that still doesn't stop the smoke blowing does it (an offence in some states), or do you use a heavier oil ? I am not suggesting HW doesn't get her motor fixed, just stating my experience with STP which could be a temporary fix (if still available) whether masking or not until she can get it attended to.
By the way, when I put my vehicl in for service, they always have a couple of Fortron additives on the bill (not requested by me) are they a waste of time and money? I have been thinking of asking them not to use them, but was unsure of whether they are worthwhile or not.
Regards mechanics, I have been taking my vehicles to the same ones (two in business together, also train apprentices) for about 20 years, have had a couple of hiccups during that time (oil cap left off by a servicing assistant doing the service and oil all over the engine...owner bought his car out to my place and loaned me his car while he took mine and cleaned it up....cap was sitting inside the engine bay where it had been put). Another time wheel nuts not tightened properly....done by me but mentioned next time I went in. I have always found we could resolve any differences although they have been few and far between, and they have given me a few "freebies" over the years which they could have charged for, so all in all have been very happy with their service and they know my vehicle/s inside out. Fair priced and always get good advice from them.
Back to HW problems, it seems we have no or very little visable smoke. So if we burn 4 litres of oil per 1000km (not know the price of woolies oil but lets say $8 per litre), So now we have a figure of $32 per 1000km, I know thats a huge amount but when travelling maybe its only 1000km a month you travel. I dont think your consumtion was quite that high HW ? I wish you was a bit closer so I could have a look.
cheers
blaze
Nulon oil treatment will help with the oil consuption, but not for ever. It fills the gaps in the bearings and bring up the oil presure, but is only a short time stop gap to a full motor rebuild, all be it a lot cheaper. I have used it in old motors and it lasts up to 6 months before excessive oil usage returns.I would take your bus to a different RACV dealer as it looks that the other one can,t be trusted.You seem to be getting good assistance from the forum members.
but the bearings have nothing to do with oil consumption, oil consumption is caused by worn rings, pistons and bores or maybe glazed bores.
cheers
blaze
As a ticketed marine engineer, I can tell you from first hand experience that some oil additives work, but not for ever.It will bring down oil consuption for a while, but a full rebuild , eg. rings and bearings done by a reasonable mechanic is the way to go. I do my own engine bebuilds, and the present motor has 174000 klms, and uses very little oil.Toyota engines are fairly simple, and done well, a rebuild will last a long time.Nulon, or The STP version is only a stop gap.Get a good mechanic!
Strewth!I,m a Guru.Didnt notice.
-- Edited by bill12 on Thursday 2nd of June 2011 10:10:02 AM
Thanks Blaze and Bill for the feedback, I hope we are not confusing Marg too much. I found the same with the STP Bill, worked for a little while then had to add again a bit later. Got me from Sydney to Melbourne and return in an old bomb that wasn't worth fixing but did the job.
A word of caution here, some unsavoury types "doctor" their engines using STP or similar additives on their vehicles for sale and of course after awhile the prolem shows up after the vehicle has been sold. I hope this is not the case in Marg's purchase and changing the oil has brought the problem to the surface.
Other things can be used to doctor the engine temporarily too as some know.
-- Edited by Vic on Thursday 2nd of June 2011 10:36:33 AM
Congratulations Guru bill12