Thank you. Will have a look and perhaps post a question or two. Margaret
Daydreamer said
10:41 PM Jan 10, 2012
Hello all
An update:
The hitch is EZIift 800 series.
The viewfinder finally got weighed. Its total weight - unhitched - all four wheels on weight platform = 2720 kg
The weight with van hitched to the car and only the van wheels on the weight platform was 2440 so the tow ball weight would be 280. There are two batteries under the nose of the van at the front. We are going to move one of them, possible both to the area under the dinette which is over the axles. Each one weighs about 28 kg so one would take 15kg off the tow ball I guess - so perhaps we will move both - we will see what the tow ball weight is once we have moved one battery.
Also, we are going to replace the rear springs and shock absorbers from the car so that should raise the back end of the car. Then, it is the opinion of the suspension guys (Peddders) that the hitch might need to be lowered so that the van does not have to be raised in order to get it onto the tow ball. This apparently should then meam that he weight distribution bars will be able to do their job. Do you have any recommendation as to the brand of springs and shock absorbers?
What do you think of all this?
Thank you for your advice.
Margaret
-- Edited by Daydreamer on Tuesday 10th of January 2012 10:43:16 PM
Boroma577 said
10:49 PM Jan 10, 2012
I'd definitely be moving both batteries to under the dinette over the axels Margaret.
I'd also be looking at putting air bags in the rear of your vehicle as well.....they can be adjusted as needed.
Is that 2720 fully loaded, water in your tanks and all??
Margaret, do we know where you are located??
Daydreamer said
06:47 AM Jan 11, 2012
Hi Boroma577
The weight is van loaded - minus content of fridge and a few clothes which came out to be laundered after last (and first) trip. This includes about water tank one third full - we don't really need any more as at the moment we are only using CPs.
We live in a township called Wandong which is about 60km north of Melbourne on Hume Fway, near Kilmore.
Margaret
Gerty Dancer said
09:30 AM Jan 11, 2012
Bilsteen shock absorbers are what Mr D put in the Prado after having put them on a previous vehicle. Very pleased with them.
Daydreamer said
09:49 AM Jan 11, 2012
Thanks Gertie
That is one on the list - Koni are there as well - apparently both of these are quite good but do run expensive.Any comments from Mr D?
Gerty Dancer said
10:10 AM Jan 11, 2012
Sorry he cant help with info on Koni. He originally put the Billsteens on the first vehicle after recommendation from a 4WD driving instructor. Worth the money he said. What a pest to have this happen with a new van! Hope you get it all sorted and can travel confidently Margaret.
Daydreamer said
10:22 AM Jan 11, 2012
Thank you Gerty
It is a nuisance but better to go through all of this at the beginning and get it sorted out while we are in Melbourne rather than have something happen on the road. The frustration is a cheap price to pay for avoiding future issues. There will be others I know, but hopefully not as serious as a swaying caravan.
We have to have it mostly OK for Jan 23 when we take number one grandson away for a week prior to school going back. He is only 9 years old and still thinks that adventures with the oldies is great.
Margaret
Rip and Rosie said
11:56 AM Jan 11, 2012
I don't know about other states, but in NSW its illegal for a trader to sell you a van that can not be safely towed by your vehicle.
I hope you have it all sorted Margaret, and sorry your intro to caravanning wasn't smoother. Don't let it put you off.
Rosie
Boroma577 said
03:20 PM Jan 11, 2012
We have Old Man Emu suspension, Nitro Charger Sport shockies and Airbag Man air bags.
Margaret, I'd also consider talking to the guys at your local ARB store before making the final decision.
Can I also say......I have more faith in the guys at ARB than I do in Pedders and I am talking from personal experience here.
Hello again Did speak to ARB and did not really get the insight I needed. We lowered the tow ball and that took things in the right direction but we do need to strengthen the back of the Pathy. So we are getting springs and shocks altered in the back and this will enable us to lower the tow ball again and I feel quite confident that this will give us some answers. More after next Tuesday. Margaret
simwilso said
04:06 PM Jan 27, 2022
Hi Daydreamer. Unrelated question. I wonder if you still have your Viewfinder would you have a copy (or know any info on where to get one) of the owner's manual? I just picked up a Viewfinder ''The Ossa" myself but it did not come with a manual and I'm trying to track one down.
If you have one and are prepared to scan it I'd be happy to pay you for a copy as well if that were an option.
Thanks. Sim
TheHeaths said
04:10 PM Jan 27, 2022
Sim,
May not get response from Daydreamer. Thread is over 10 years old, and they havent logged into forum for 2.5 years.
Some one else may help, but you may be unlucky.
oldbloke said
06:48 PM Jan 27, 2022
TheHeaths wrote:
Sim,
May not get response from Daydreamer. Thread is over 10 years old, and they havent logged into forum for 2.5 years.
Some one else may help, but you may be unlucky.
Lol. Agree. It is an easy trap to fall for though.
Bill B said
07:12 PM Jan 27, 2022
simwilso wrote:
Hi Daydreamer. Unrelated question. I wonder if you still have your Viewfinder would you have a copy (or know any info on where to get one) of the owner's manual? I just picked up a Viewfinder ''The Ossa" myself but it did not come with a manual and I'm trying to track one down. If you have one and are prepared to scan it I'd be happy to pay you for a copy as well if that were an option. Thanks. Sim
Not many brands of caravans come with an owner's manual.
Usually you will only receive manuals for individual items (eg. A/C, fridge, stove etc) within the van.
Bicyclecamper said
01:41 AM Jan 28, 2022
Simwilso, do you have the same problem that the original poster of this comment had with the Ossa swaying?, or if not, it must have been his Pathy. I had the same model pathy up until Oct 2020, and it's back end was soft, although my van was only 1670kg loaded plus it had independent suspension and never did the van sway.
dieseltojo said
09:06 AM Jan 28, 2022
Colyn Rivers has a great insight, and has some books on the subject from tyres pressures and load balance,
all within the weight and speed of the chosen vehicles etc. all factors that need to be considered.
I suggest that any thing written here might be a help bet not based on vital info and all matters related to a particular set up.
You did well to go slower to get around safely. My first advice is to lower the front tyres on the vehicle and trailer in pressure by a few pound even if just for the short term for better handling.
Then ignore any given weight of said rig, and go to a weigh bridge for a current weight as well as a ball weight. I will mean you have to undo the van from the truck to do this.
It is a starting point....
woolman said
05:34 PM Jan 28, 2022
In my experience towing trailers if the load was incorrectly distributed the trailer would get a sway up at a certian speed. Usually it too light ball weight but can also be trailer with weight up front and at rear (instead of close to axles) will cause the same syndrome. The aim is to get most of weight as close to axles as possible/practical .
Really quite difficult to provide a direct answer at the other end of a forum, but I would be getting access to scales and playing with the loading as a first step. The sales outlet should help you with that
Good luck
Neil
skins said
08:57 PM Jan 28, 2022
Hi, Margaret & Graham, sorry if I'm a bit late to this post re putting my 2 bobs worth in. First off I like your van having just looked it up. Looks real nice! 2nd is, sorry but I'm not a big fan of your choice of towing vehicle pulling a van of that weight. I think your vehicle is underdone & not up to the task. Water, should not make any difference at all, if it did you've got issues. If you do improve the rear end of your tug, be careful not to go too hard with heavy duty coils and shocks otherwise you will regret it when you drive the vehicle normally without the van. Consider a progressive rated coil & matching shocks. Some people also raise the height of their tow vehicle by 50mm - This is also claimed to be very beneficial for towing, but mainly by people who have raised their vehicles by 2 inches. The 3rd issue is your WDH - throw it out. I know I have just upset nearly everyone reading my post, but hear me out. Their is a new WDH on the market - well it's been new for the last 5-6 odd years and it's called the 'Anderson Weight Distribution Hitch' - by it's inherent design it also prevents sway - that's what your after, to stop the sway. I know I own one and in my opinion it works and works a treat. Only issue is it's about a thousand bucks. Do some research & look into it. Next issue is your tow ball download. All the experts recon it should be approx 10% of the weight of your van, but you should know that. In my case when I picked up my new van the tow ball weight was exactly 100kg - the tare weight of the empty van was 2280kg - towed it from Melbourne to Canberra - nil problems whatsoever. On my first shakedown trip the weight of the van was 2700kg & tow ball weight was 170kg's and that with all of the gear in the van either on top of or forward of the axles. So you see I'm still grossly under the so called 10% rule - I put it down to the Anderson Hitch. Next bit of advice - get the Dexter or Alco sway control system fitted to your van - if you sway again at least the sway control system will assist immensely. Also play around a bit with the pressure in your vehicle & vans tyres. Well that's my 2 bobs for what it's worth. Hope it helps you to consider some other options not already mentioned.
Phlipper said
11:05 PM Jan 28, 2022
oops, wrong post
-- Edited by Phlipper on Friday 28th of January 2022 11:07:26 PM
Hylife said
09:57 PM Feb 4, 2022
In short, most sways are caused by under-inflated tyres because folks mistakenly go asking other folks what the tyre pressure should be, and that is totally pointless and irrelevant to your van.
For over 40 years international standards have required the tyre manufacturer to stamp the tyre pressures unique to that model tyre, into the sidewalls of the tyre, expressed as "XX PSI at XX kg".
Every tyre is completely different, so unless your ole mate has the exact same van with the exact same brand and model tyres with the exact same weights, then his tyre pressures bear no comparison to what yours should be.
Also, ignore the compliance plate specs. Like the plate on your car, this is there solely because of an ancient and dangerous regulation that should be repealed. The plated specs only relates to the OEM fitted tyres on the vehicle as it rolled off the production line.
You have to read the tyre sidewall and do some very simple math.
If your tyres sidewall says (for example) 80PSI at 1550kg and you have only two wheels carrying the load (eg, equiv to a single axel), you need to know the loaded weight of your van to get the correct pressures.
Lets assume the van loaded was 2,800kg
so, 2800 less the weight carried by the towbar (approx. 10% (280kg) = 2520kg on the two wheels, = 1260kg per wheel.
1260 divided by the tyres maximum weight carrying capacity of 1550kg = 0.813 (the tyre is carrying 81.3 % of its maximum weight)
So you inflate your tyres to 81.3% of the manufacturer's specified maximum weight pressure,
80PSI x 0.813, = 65PSI
More weight = more pressure, less weight = less pressure.
Simples.
Don't be frightened by pressures that seem extraordinarily high compared to your car. Many light truck tyres can go to 100PSI or more.
Oh, and you may find that the local service station air hose only goes up to around 55PSI regardless of what you try to dial in on the buttons, so you either have to invest in a small compressor or regularly visit retail tyre outlets.
Hello all
An update:
The hitch is EZIift 800 series.
The viewfinder finally got weighed. Its total weight - unhitched - all four wheels on weight platform = 2720 kg
The weight with van hitched to the car and only the van wheels on the weight platform was 2440 so the tow ball weight would be 280. There are two batteries under the nose of the van at the front. We are going to move one of them, possible both to the area under the dinette which is over the axles. Each one weighs about 28 kg so one would take 15kg off the tow ball I guess - so perhaps we will move both - we will see what the tow ball weight is once we have moved one battery.
Also, we are going to replace the rear springs and shock absorbers from the car so that should raise the back end of the car. Then, it is the opinion of the suspension guys (Peddders) that the hitch might need to be lowered so that the van does not have to be raised in order to get it onto the tow ball. This apparently should then meam that he weight distribution bars will be able to do their job. Do you have any recommendation as to the brand of springs and shock absorbers?
What do you think of all this?
Thank you for your advice.
Margaret
-- Edited by Daydreamer on Tuesday 10th of January 2012 10:43:16 PM
I'd definitely be moving both batteries to under the dinette over the axels Margaret.
I'd also be looking at putting air bags in the rear of your vehicle as well.....they can be adjusted as needed.
Is that 2720 fully loaded, water in your tanks and all??
Margaret, do we know where you are located??
Hi Boroma577
The weight is van loaded - minus content of fridge and a few clothes which came out to be laundered after last (and first) trip. This includes about water tank one third full - we don't really need any more as at the moment we are only using CPs.
We live in a township called Wandong which is about 60km north of Melbourne on Hume Fway, near Kilmore.
Margaret
Thanks Gertie
That is one on the list - Koni are there as well - apparently both of these are quite good but do run expensive.Any comments from Mr D?
What a pest to have this happen with a new van! Hope you get it all sorted and can travel confidently Margaret.
Thank you Gerty
It is a nuisance but better to go through all of this at the beginning and get it sorted out while we are in Melbourne rather than have something happen on the road. The frustration is a cheap price to pay for avoiding future issues. There will be others I know, but hopefully not as serious as a swaying caravan.
We have to have it mostly OK for Jan 23 when we take number one grandson away for a week prior to school going back. He is only 9 years old and still thinks that adventures with the oldies is great.
Margaret
I hope you have it all sorted Margaret, and sorry your intro to caravanning wasn't smoother. Don't let it put you off.
Rosie
We have Old Man Emu suspension, Nitro Charger Sport shockies and Airbag Man air bags.
Margaret, I'd also consider talking to the guys at your local ARB store before making the final decision.
Can I also say......I have more faith in the guys at ARB than I do in Pedders and I am talking from personal experience here.
http://www.arb.com.au/products/old-man-emu-suspension/
http://www.arb.com.au/products/old-man-emu-suspension/nitrocharger-sport-shocks/
http://www.airbagman.com/
Did speak to ARB and did not really get the insight I needed. We lowered the tow ball and that took things in the right direction but we do need to strengthen the back of the Pathy. So we are getting springs and shocks altered in the back and this will enable us to lower the tow ball again and I feel quite confident that this will give us some answers. More after next Tuesday. Margaret
May not get response from Daydreamer. Thread is over 10 years old, and they havent logged into forum for 2.5 years.
Some one else may help, but you may be unlucky.
Lol. Agree. It is an easy trap to fall for though.
Not many brands of caravans come with an owner's manual.
Usually you will only receive manuals for individual items (eg. A/C, fridge, stove etc) within the van.
Colyn Rivers has a great insight, and has some books on the subject from tyres pressures and load balance,
all within the weight and speed of the chosen vehicles etc. all factors that need to be considered.
I suggest that any thing written here might be a help bet not based on vital info and all matters related to a particular set up.
You did well to go slower to get around safely. My first advice is to lower the front tyres on the vehicle and trailer in pressure by a few pound even if just for the short term for better handling.
Then ignore any given weight of said rig, and go to a weigh bridge for a current weight as well as a ball weight. I will mean you have to undo the van from the truck to do this.
It is a starting point....
In my experience towing trailers if the load was incorrectly distributed the trailer would get a sway up at a certian speed. Usually it too light ball weight but can also be trailer with weight up front and at rear (instead of close to axles) will cause the same syndrome. The aim is to get most of weight as close to axles as possible/practical .
Really quite difficult to provide a direct answer at the other end of a forum, but I would be getting access to scales and playing with the loading as a first step. The sales outlet should help you with that
Good luck
Neil
Hi, Margaret & Graham, sorry if I'm a bit late to this post re putting my 2 bobs worth in. First off I like your van having just looked it up. Looks real nice! 2nd is, sorry but I'm not a big fan of your choice of towing vehicle pulling a van of that weight. I think your vehicle is underdone & not up to the task. Water, should not make any difference at all, if it did you've got issues. If you do improve the rear end of your tug, be careful not to go too hard with heavy duty coils and shocks otherwise you will regret it when you drive the vehicle normally without the van. Consider a progressive rated coil & matching shocks. Some people also raise the height of their tow vehicle by 50mm - This is also claimed to be very beneficial for towing, but mainly by people who have raised their vehicles by 2 inches. The 3rd issue is your WDH - throw it out. I know I have just upset nearly everyone reading my post, but hear me out. Their is a new WDH on the market - well it's been new for the last 5-6 odd years and it's called the 'Anderson Weight Distribution Hitch' - by it's inherent design it also prevents sway - that's what your after, to stop the sway. I know I own one and in my opinion it works and works a treat. Only issue is it's about a thousand bucks. Do some research & look into it. Next issue is your tow ball download. All the experts recon it should be approx 10% of the weight of your van, but you should know that. In my case when I picked up my new van the tow ball weight was exactly 100kg - the tare weight of the empty van was 2280kg - towed it from Melbourne to Canberra - nil problems whatsoever. On my first shakedown trip the weight of the van was 2700kg & tow ball weight was 170kg's and that with all of the gear in the van either on top of or forward of the axles. So you see I'm still grossly under the so called 10% rule - I put it down to the Anderson Hitch. Next bit of advice - get the Dexter or Alco sway control system fitted to your van - if you sway again at least the sway control system will assist immensely. Also play around a bit with the pressure in your vehicle & vans tyres. Well that's my 2 bobs for what it's worth. Hope it helps you to consider some other options not already mentioned.
oops, wrong post
-- Edited by Phlipper on Friday 28th of January 2022 11:07:26 PM
In short, most sways are caused by under-inflated tyres because folks mistakenly go asking other folks what the tyre pressure should be, and that is totally pointless and irrelevant to your van.
For over 40 years international standards have required the tyre manufacturer to stamp the tyre pressures unique to that model tyre, into the sidewalls of the tyre, expressed as "XX PSI at XX kg".
Every tyre is completely different, so unless your ole mate has the exact same van with the exact same brand and model tyres with the exact same weights, then his tyre pressures bear no comparison to what yours should be.
Also, ignore the compliance plate specs. Like the plate on your car, this is there solely because of an ancient and dangerous regulation that should be repealed. The plated specs only relates to the OEM fitted tyres on the vehicle as it rolled off the production line.
You have to read the tyre sidewall and do some very simple math.
If your tyres sidewall says (for example) 80PSI at 1550kg and you have only two wheels carrying the load (eg, equiv to a single axel), you need to know the loaded weight of your van to get the correct pressures.
Lets assume the van loaded was 2,800kg
so, 2800 less the weight carried by the towbar (approx. 10% (280kg) = 2520kg on the two wheels, = 1260kg per wheel.
1260 divided by the tyres maximum weight carrying capacity of 1550kg = 0.813 (the tyre is carrying 81.3 % of its maximum weight)
So you inflate your tyres to 81.3% of the manufacturer's specified maximum weight pressure,
80PSI x 0.813, = 65PSI
More weight = more pressure, less weight = less pressure.
Simples.
Don't be frightened by pressures that seem extraordinarily high compared to your car. Many light truck tyres can go to 100PSI or more.
Oh, and you may find that the local service station air hose only goes up to around 55PSI regardless of what you try to dial in on the buttons, so you either have to invest in a small compressor or regularly visit retail tyre outlets.