I had mine checked out because it appeared that the car was not charging the battery when driving.
The autoelec found there was nothing wrong and all was as it should be.
His advice was that, when driving to charge a van battery, it takes twice as long for the car's alternator to restore the battery as it took to use it - eg use it for two hours last night, need to drive for at least four hours the next day to get it back to "full". I very rarely drive for four hours uninterrupted and rarely that long in a day.
Hence, I got solar panels, they charge ALL the time (as long as there is sun - or very little cloud) driving or not.
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 16th of July 2012 08:22:24 PM
That was incorrect advice; eg, you could put a heavy load on the van system & run it flat in an hour, but one hr driving will never recharge it.
If you were to consume 50 amp hrs from the van batt, then you need to supply 75 to 100 amp hrs to recharge it fully.
Even if you had a DC_DC fitted, you would need to drive for at least four hrs to recharge; A DC_DC will provide 20amps/hr , x 4 hrs is 80amps.
As the dc is a multi stage charger, boost, absorbtion & float this may take even longer.
JC.
jimricho said
04:01 PM Jul 21, 2012
This thread illustrates the difficulty in providing simple answers to complex issues.
(I'm out on the road at present and a little"late to the party" on this thread so I apologise if this has been previously mentioned)
Ash said
10:17 AM Jul 26, 2012
Hi Kerry and Bruce, I do have a solution you can run a separate charge line directly from your alternator via a 30 amp circuit breaker directly to the house batterys, I have done that with my campervan and have not had any problems, both of my deep cycle house batterys are always fully charged after a few hours driving,.....Hope that helps..... Ash
-- Edited by Ash on Thursday 26th of July 2012 10:22:07 AM
Mccanic said
10:42 PM Jul 27, 2012
The previous circuit is excellent though expensive, just a votage sensing isolator will set you back several hundreds of $ so I have fitted about 50 or more systems like this:
Hope it works.
Just a note, the battery feed to the van should either have a large Diode on the feed cable or at least fuse it at the house battery just incase the cable it gets damaged and dead shorts.
Remeber, always run cabling carefully where it has little chance of getting damaged and if you suspect it can get damaged then check it regularly, I know a few people who have lost vans and equipment by not checking.
The previous circuit is excellent though expensive, just a votage sensing isolator will set you back several hundreds of $ so I have fitted about 50 or more systems like this:
Hope it works.
Just a note, the battery feed to the van should either have a large Diode on the feed cable or at least fuse it at the house battery just incase the cable it gets damaged and dead shorts.
Remeber, always run cabling carefully where it has little chance of getting damaged and if you suspect it can get damaged then check it regularly, I know a few people who have lost vans and equipment by not checking.
Cheers,
Damo
Hi Damo, just a slight error in the pinout of your relay diagram which may cause a bit of confusion. The standard 5 pin auto relay has pin 30 as the common or input side of the switch, pins 87, 87 or 87, 87a or 87, 87b as the switched output side of the switch, and the coil between pins 85 and 86. Relays with two pins marked 87 have two output pins that are physically connected in the relay. The 87a type (aka a changover relay) has one normally open output contact (87) and one normally closed output contact (87a). The 87b type has two separate normally open output contacts which aren't connected to each other.
(I hope you don't mind me pinching part of your diagram)
Bob
The 87b type relay is usefull for fitting spotlights or similar higher current devices to reduce erosion of contacts by sharing the load between the two sets of contacts.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Saturday 28th of July 2012 05:11:49 PM
03_troopy said
05:33 PM Jul 28, 2012
Sorry about the large diagram earlier posted. I found a link to a PDF that shows the common types of auto relays to clarify my previous post.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Saturday 28th of July 2012 05:37:06 PM
jimricho said
02:59 PM Jul 30, 2012
Mccanic wrote:
The previous circuit is excellent though expensive, just a votage sensing isolator will set you back several hundreds of $ so I have fitted about 50 or more systems like this:
Hope it works.
Just a note, the battery feed to the van should either have a large Diode on the feed cable or at least fuse it at the house battery just incase the cable it gets damaged and dead shorts.
Remeber, always run cabling carefully where it has little chance of getting damaged and if you suspect it can get damaged then check it regularly, I know a few people who have lost vans and equipment by not checking.
Cheers,
Damo
I recently purchased avoltage sensing isolator in the form of a Redarc "Smart Relay" http://redarc.com.au/products-and-services/sbi-series-dual-battery-isolator for $125 "show price". I understand the RRP is about $175, hardly "hundreds of dollars". Baintech and other suppliers have these for a similar price. By using this type of isolator there is no need to tap into the existing vehicle wiring to provide a control circuit as the isolator itself will do all the controlling.
I would not advocate the use of a diode in a charging cuircuit as this will cause a voltage drop of approx 0.7 volts due to the forward voltage of the diode. This would seriously limit the circuit's ability to charge a battery. I do endorse the use of a fuse or circuit breaker to protect against any short circuits.
Jim
03_troopy said
07:23 PM Jul 30, 2012
jimricho wrote:
Mccanic wrote:
The previous circuit is excellent though expensive, just a votage sensing isolator will set you back several hundreds of $ so I have fitted about 50 or more systems like this:
Hope it works.
Just a note, the battery feed to the van should either have a large Diode on the feed cable or at least fuse it at the house battery just incase the cable it gets damaged and dead shorts.
Remeber, always run cabling carefully where it has little chance of getting damaged and if you suspect it can get damaged then check it regularly, I know a few people who have lost vans and equipment by not checking.
Cheers,
Damo
I recently purchased avoltage sensing isolator in the form of a Redarc "Smart Relay" http://redarc.com.au/products-and-services/sbi-series-dual-battery-isolator for $125 "show price". I understand the RRP is about $175, hardly "hundreds of dollars". Baintech and other suppliers have these for a similar price. By using this type of isolator there is no need to tap into the existing vehicle wiring to provide a control circuit as the isolator itself will do all the controlling.
I would not advocate the use of a diode in a charging cuircuit as this will cause a voltage drop of approx 0.7 volts due to the forward voltage of the diode. This would seriously limit the circuit's ability to charge a battery. I do endorse the use of a fuse or circuit breaker to protect against any short circuits.
Jim
We fit literally dozens of the Redarc ones to mine service vehicles every month and they seem to work very well. One advantace to them is that you can also fit a momentary switch which connects to the extra wire and, providing you have used heavy enough wire between the smart isolator and the batteries, you can use the auxilliary batteries to "boost" the start batteries when they are a bit low.
Edit: most of the vehicles we fit these too are 24V systems, that's why the plural batteries in my post. We also fit them to 12V systems as well.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Monday 30th of July 2012 07:25:04 PM
Mccanic said
10:11 PM Jul 30, 2012
$175 plus $80 to $160 for fitting for most people ends up at well into the hundreds of $ mark well at least a couple of hundred anyway I would say.
A $7 relay, some cable and terminals plus half a day to the absolute novice or about $80 for an autoelec would be well within the boundries of most people just to charge an inhouse battery.
There is no big deal about breaking into the loom, there are normally plenty of wires you can tap with just a plug in terminal at your main fuse box under the bonnet, that's the first place I normally look and I havn't been wrong yet, you don't need anything big as it's just to switch the relay, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with your body computer is the only thing to worry about so test it to see that it's 12v and not 5v or something silly like that.
As far as Diodes go, I'm not quite sure of what you mean as your red arc system runs at least 4 on it's board so you must have massive drop in charging voltage but if your talking an active current sensing circuit as your so called diode (i.e Red arc) then yes, your talking about an UP TO 0.7 amp drop in current but I may be mistaken on what you mean there so please don't take it personally but I would like to know what you mean.
I've fit at least 50 of these systems and I appologise about the diagrahm, it was right off the top of my head and I should have checked a diagrahm to get it right and specified a NO or NC (normally open/closed) relay and 40a at least which is about the best you can get in the standard automotive relays but you can go up to 100, 200, 250amp relays if you want but your only charging a battery and in most cases it won't try and draw more than 10 to 20amps to charge it anyway.
Red arc is a great system and I'm not saying that this is as good but it does the job a crap load cheaper than fitting a voltage sensing system.
03 Troopy, cheers mate for that, always better to have someone correct a stuff up than stuff up because of what I have told them to do.
And not a prob with using my diagrahm, that's why i posted it.
Cheers Damo
-- Edited by Mccanic on Monday 30th of July 2012 10:13:33 PM
Mccanic said
05:32 AM Jul 31, 2012
Ok just read up on what was referenced as Forward Voltage of a Diode on Wiki (handy at times if not accurate) and it brought back some memory of the old days of Electronics but this is what they say:
If an external voltage is placed across the diode with the same polarity as the built-in potential, the depletion zone continues to act as an insulator, preventing any significant electric current flow (unless electron/hole pairs are actively being created in the junction by, for instance, light. see photodiode). This is the reverse bias phenomenon. However, if the polarity of the external voltage opposes the built-in potential, recombination can once again proceed, resulting in substantial electric current through the pn junction (i.e. substantial numbers of electrons and holes recombine at the junction). For silicon diodes, the built-in potential is approximately 0.7 V (0.3 V for Germanium and 0.2 V for Schottky). Thus, if an external current is passed through the diode, about 0.7 V will be developed across the diode such that the P-doped region is positive with respect to the N-doped region and the diode is said to be "turned on" as it has a forward bias.
This is basically saying in layman's terms that if there is a reverse voltage (house battery) and then you add a forward voltage (car alternator charge) then the Diode will develop a 0.7v charge across the P N Junction (the one way valve for atoms inside the diode).
This is not a loss as such just what turns the diode on and is why Silicon Diodes need to have a 0.7v charge above their battery voltage to turn on so unless your system doesn't produce more than your depleted house battery then no I wouldn't consider fitting a Diode in the system but if your charging system is healthy and charges at 13.8v (most cars normal charging voltage) and your house battery is below 13.1v (which I would hope your stored voltage is) then there should not be a problem but again, my electronic theory is a bit rusty and I've been on the nuts and bolts for the last 20years so I could have something out of kilter and I would like to know if I have so not to steer anyone wrong.
The one thing that I remember that has stuck with me all these years though is that there should be no voltage loss from a diode as there is no resistance if within it's working range.
Cheers Damo
03_troopy said
08:43 PM Jul 31, 2012
Hi Mccanic, what Jimricho is saying is that if you had a a battery of exactly 12V potential difference between the terminals, and you connected a resistor (load) in series with a diode (forward biased) across the terminals, you would see 11.3V dropped across the resistor and O.7V dropped across the diode.
Edit: As for the redarc or similar voltage sensing relays, the circuit board is only for sensing the voltage of you starting battery, and setting the switching voltages for the solenoid. Once the solenoid is energised the charge path is only via the contacts in the solenoid, not the circuit board. Once the starting battery has reached a charge voltage of 13.2V the circuit board allows the solenoid to be energised, connecting the aux battery so that it can then be charged. If the starting battery voltage drops to 12.7V, the solenoid is deenergised, thus dissconnecting the aux battery from the charging circuit.
Cheers Bob.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Tuesday 31st of July 2012 08:55:49 PM
Mccanic said
06:32 AM Aug 1, 2012
Which would not be an issue with fitting a Diode in line due to there being no resister load unless you are using the battery but still your charging voltage should be around 13.8v so minimal loss of 0.7v your still in the vicinity of 13v which is plenty for a deep cycle house battery, your not going to cop much more from solar panels or even from your red arc or any other brand.
a. You only have a forward voltage problem when there is current flow, when there is no current, the forward voltage will be the supply voltage on the forward side of the Diode. b. The charge current is always a minimum of 1 to 1.3v higher than battery voltage so again that is more than the forward Voltage drop and so minimum charge voltage will be 12.5 to 12.8v which is fine, wont give you total charge but it will give you about 90% for a pretty good saving in $ c. The whole point of me posting this was not to say don't fit a Voltage sensing system, I have a piranha system in one of my Landies but just to give a cheaper, reliable option for the DIY'er to have a go at.
Sorry if I upset anyone, it was not my intension.
Cheers Damo
jimricho said
02:22 PM Aug 1, 2012
03_troopy wrote:
Hi Mccanic, what Jimricho is saying is that if you had a a battery of exactly 12V potential difference between the terminals, and you connected a resistor (load) in series with a diode (forward biased) across the terminals, you would see 11.3V dropped across the resistor and O.7V dropped across the diode.
Edit: As for the redarc or similar voltage sensing relays, the circuit board is only for sensing the voltage of you starting battery, and setting the switching voltages for the solenoid. Once the solenoid is energised the charge path is only via the contacts in the solenoid, not the circuit board. Once the starting battery has reached a charge voltage of 13.2V the circuit board allows the solenoid to be energised, connecting the aux battery so that it can then be charged. If the starting battery voltage drops to 12.7V, the solenoid is deenergised, thus dissconnecting the aux battery from the charging circuit.
Cheers Bob.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Tuesday 31st of July 2012 08:55:49 PM
Thanks, Bob, a good summary.
To ensure effective charging of a van/house/aux battery from the alternator it is necessary to limit any voltage drop in the circuit as much as possible and therefore the use of diodes should be avoided. If wishing to isolate the charging circuit from the 3way fridge supply from the vehicle (and this should be done) methods other than diodes should be adopted. A DC-DC charger is good option for this and other reasons.
As a "by the way" I have a fully solid state (no mechanical contacts as in a relay) dual battery isolator between my main battery and my vehicle's aux battery and it has very little forward voltage (most likely uses a mosfet). It's a "Rotronics" unit and has given over 12 years of reliable service.
Jim
LeighW said
07:48 PM Aug 1, 2012
Hi all,
It is possible to charge a van battery from a car providing suitable cable is used, it will just take longer to do so.
It should in most cases, be quicker to charge a battery to 95% SOC off an alternator than a DC DC charger.
The DC DC charger only being quicker for the last 5% and generally a lot slower to 95%.
As for modern vehicles, yes the charge voltage can be lower due to car manufacturers using excessive temperature compensation to meet engine emission requirements. In this instance there are other lower cost options than the use of DC DC charge and depending on the battery setup may provide much better results:
One could be to use Optima type batteries that will quickly charge at a lower voltage than a normal battery and much quicker off an alternator than a DC DC charger.
Another could be to use an Alternator Voltage booster diode, but as manufacture on of one type of these I have a vested interest in them so will leave the members to do their own research.
Cheers LeighW
powerstream said
09:28 PM Aug 2, 2012
LeighW wrote:
Hi all,
It is possible to charge a van battery from a car providing suitable cable is used, it will just take longer to do so.
Are you referring to a cranking battery or a auxilliary battery.
It should in most cases, be quicker to charge a battery to 95% SOC off an alternator than a DC DC charger.
All batteries and if so please explain in more detail.
The DC DC charger only being quicker for the last 5% and generally a lot slower to 95%.
More info needed.
As for modern vehicles, yes the charge voltage can be lower due to car manufacturers using excessive temperature compensation to meet engine emission requirements. In this instance there are other lower cost options than the use of DC DC charge and depending on the battery setup may provide much better results:
One could be to use Optima type batteries that will quickly charge at a lower voltage than a normal battery and much quicker off an alternator than a DC DC charger.
Please expalin why you preferenced the Optima as Im sure a lot of people would also like to know why.
Another could be to use an Alternator Voltage booster diode, but as manufacture on of one type of these I have a vested interest in them so will leave the members to do their own research.
If as you first stated you can do it off an alternator with the correct cabling why even use one of the booster diodes.
Cheers LeighW
powerstream said
11:36 AM Aug 3, 2012
Leigh Im a bit disappointed that you didnt respond to the request for better and further particulars but anyway Im sure someone else may respond so that the readers get a better understanding.
Peter D posted up some links for DC/DC chargers and there are some anomalies in those links and one in particular is that one brand claims an efficency of 90% but in another forum it was posted that under that posters circumstances the unit in question was using input amps far greater than the output amps that if would seem impossible for it to get anywhere near the claimed efficiency so I would think that where a unit uses a lower voltage to convert the amp draw is larger especially when the DOD (Depth of Discharge ) is high on the receiving batteries.
The other thing that appears wrong is in the Sterling DC/DC literature it is claimed the unit sizes are 60A and 100A and I'm sorry neither of these units exist and this can be checked by looking at the Sterling website in the UK where those sizes are not listed in the UK Euro shop which they should be if available.
There has been a !2V 100A on the drawing board but it has never materialised. The ones that might get there sooner are DC/DC tow chargers that are waterproof and may come in 60A and 90A followed up by the Wildside Series that will be DC/DC charging with MPPT Solar and should come in 16A, 30A, 60A and 90A. Regards Ian
-- Edited by powerstream on Friday 3rd of August 2012 11:39:46 AM
-- Edited by powerstream on Friday 3rd of August 2012 11:40:45 AM
powerstream said
03:55 PM Aug 4, 2012
I have listed some battery detail on the thread Deep Cycle Batteries on page 2. I hope this helps people get a better understanding of the battery type AGM.
The resistance of the battery combined with recombination technology controls what the battery will accept and is at its best when the charging system also has temperature compensation. Regards Ian
oldtrack123 said
07:51 PM Aug 4, 2012
HI Ian
I think Leigh may be suffering from info overload & by now a little confused
She probably does not realize /understand just how important the answers to YOUR questions are for a good factual answer to the OP questions
Peter
powerstream said
03:15 PM Aug 5, 2012
Peter Leigh is a male and I believe a technician and from the Melbourne area of Victoria.
There are two supposed makers of the smart fuse and Leigh would have the best product .
I bought a few hundred dollars of his product as I believed the voltage boost would enhanse the use of DC/DC chargers where some to me actively and possibly unknowingly promote underwiring and inneficiency of their own operation by using lowervoltage acceptance and forcing the use of more amps input to produce the stated amps capacity output and in one instance one unit in use pulled a massive increase in amps in to produce amps out that it made the stated 90% efficiency as claimed look rediculous.
I have reservations about the specific voltage produced in some instances by the smart fuse for underbonnet continuous charging use and without the installation of a DC/DC charger controlling the voltage there could be battery damage in underbonnet applications.
If Leigh genuinely has the knowledge reqired he would answer the questions and work to promote the use of his product that compliments it rather than claiming it as the end all to be all which it is definately not.
LeighW said
06:42 AM Aug 6, 2012
powerstream wrote:
Ian,
Sorry for slow reply as I have been travelling.
"I bought a few hundred dollars of his product as I believed the voltage boost would enhanse the use of DC/DC chargers where some to me actively and possibly unknowingly promote underwiring and inneficiency of their own operation by using lowervoltage acceptance and forcing the use of more amps input to produce the stated amps capacity output and in one instance one unit in use pulled a massive increase in amps in to produce amps out that it made the stated 90% efficiency as claimed look rediculous."
Ian, you purchased my product to try and get around problems with a poorly designed product you were trying to market, please don't imply my unit doesn't work effectively for what it was designed to do.
"I have reservations about the specific voltage produced in some instances by the smart fuse for underbonnet continuous charging use and without the installation of a DC/DC charger controlling the voltage there could be battery damage in underbonnet applications."
I have sold many hundreds of my units and they proven themselves over hundreds of thousands of kilometers in use with no signs of battery damage or shorten life being observed. I offer a no questions asked money back gaurantee, I have never received one complaint from an unhappy customer or been asked for a refund, can you say the same?
As for the other questions:
Hi all,
It is possible to charge a van battery from a car providing suitable cable is used, it will just take longer to do so.
Are you referring to a cranking battery or a auxilliary battery.
Cranking & aux.
It should in most cases, be quicker to charge a battery to 95% SOC off an alternator than a DC DC charger.
All batteries and if so please explain in more detail.
Lead acid, marine, auto deep cycle, optima etc.
The DC DC charger only being quicker for the last 5% and generally a lot slower to 95%.
More info needed.
Try charging a 200AH battery off a 20A DC DC charger and see if it is quicker than an Alternator.
As for modern vehicles, yes the charge voltage can be lower due to car manufacturers using excessive temperature
compensation to meet engine emission requirements. In this instance there are other lower cost options than the use of DC DC charge and depending on the battery setup may provide much better results:
One could be to use Optima type batteries that will quickly charge at a lower voltage than a normal battery and much quicker off an alternator than a DC DC charger.
Please expalin why you preferenced the Optima as Im sure a lot of people would also like to know why.
It was provided as an example. I have also received feeback from a lot of customers indicating they
work very well and information freely available on other forums confirms the same.
Another could be to use an Alternator Voltage booster diode, but as manufacture on of one type of these I have a vested interest in them so will leave the members to do their own research.
If as you first stated you can do it off an alternator with the correct cabling why even use one of the booster diodes.
The same reason one would install a dc dc charger in the majority of cases, to shorten recharge times.
Enough said, I don't wish to use this forum as a free medium to push my product my intention was just to let
members know there are alternatives to dc dc available at a much more cost effective price that will perform
just as well in most cases.
I urge all members to do there own research before shelling out big money and keep in mind that any seller is in
business to make money, that's the bottom line and is going to push the product that gives him the most markup,
installation hours cost return, or if his after volume sales with little effort on his part, the item that is easiest to install.
Cheers
LeighW
powerstream said
09:03 AM Aug 6, 2012
Its good to see you come on again Leigh and prove that you know nothing about DC/DC chargers and are prepared to deride a product to just push your own barrow.
Small DC/DC chargers do leave a lot to be desired in their capacity in time frame to better a cable only system and especialy one with a voltage booster that has the ability to recognise the potential for over voltage and temperature compensation but to date the voltage booster is a dumbwaiter and cannot perform the functions mentioned and required.
Well designed DC/DC chargers with full bulk absorption and float and with temperature compensation have the capability to work with alternators up to 300A and they come in three types (1) Alternator Smart Regulators, (2) Alternator to Battery Chargers and (3) Battery to Battery Chargers. All units come with the ability to temperature compensate alternators and batteries.
Due to the drop voltage issues of some alternators the start up threshold of some DC/DC chargers can be compromised and there is two ways to fix this and that is try a booster fuse and or modify the DC.charger to cater for the drop and the later is the better long term option.
I tried your Booster Fuse in a Diesel Landcruiser 100 Series and it took the voltage too high for a safe operation of the batteries under the bonnet so the owner would not use it and removed it . He rang you and you told him just use the fuse on its own dont use DC/DC char gers they are a waste of money.
Thank you for putting your desire to sell your product above the potential of cooperation and by lambasting a good product you showed your ignorance to what and how a system does truly get the best benefit.
All sealed batteries whether AGM,Sealed Lead Acid and Gel are voltage sensitive and with over voltage can suffer water loss that cannot be replaced and your unit has proven to have the potential to do just that especially under bonnet batteries that are prone to a high ambient environment anyway so high ambient voltage increase on top of voltage fuses may be a recipe for disaster with the only thing saving auxiliary batteries being underwiring giving voltage drop relief to the batteries.
If as you say your not pushing your own barrow why did you come on here in the first place . I'm on to push my barrow of information but not to the extent that I'm in need of sales as I am a Grey Nomad in reality and my desire is to let people know what can be done and it is up to them to decide what to do for the best by sorting the wheat from the chaff.
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 6th of August 2012 09:04:25 AM
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 6th of August 2012 09:06:03 AM
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 6th of August 2012 09:08:11 AM
LeighW said
10:16 AM Aug 6, 2012
powerstream wrote:
Due to the drop voltage issues of some alternators the start up threshold of some DC/DC chargers can be compromised and there is two ways to fix this and that is try a booster fuse and or modify the DC.charger to cater for the drop and the later is the better long term option.
Come on Ian, you knew the DC DC charger you were trying to market wouldn't work properly with the newer charging systems in the Toyotas so instead of doing the right thing and getting the manufacture to correct the issue you tried to use my device as a makes shift cure, doesn't sound like you have your customers best interests at heart to me.
I tried your Booster Fuse in a Diesel Landcruiser 100 Series and it took the voltage too high for a safe operation of the batteries under the bonnet so the owner would not use it and removed it . He rang you and you told him just use the fuse on its own dont use DC/DC char gers they are a waste of money.
My units have been installed in many 100 series and the output voltage has always remained in the range specified by Toyota as normal for a 100 series, if you have documented proof of overcharging please supply and I'll address the issue. I don't recall having said the above to any of your customers, I do recall a conversation though were one of your customers indicate he had complained to you of a problem with interference to his cars radio after your company installed a charger and one of my devices and you fobbed him of to me saying the booster was the problem. I told him the booster couldn't possibly cause the issue and to prove simply replace the booster with a fuse. We did get around to discussing the installation of my booster with one of your chargers, I said it does seem a waste of time to boost the alternator voltage then add a DC Dc charger, As I never heard from him again I assume the noise issue was with the charger you installed. By the way, if you were installing my booster in conjuction with your charger in an attemp to solve issues with your chargers why was your customer contacting me for support, surely you should have been doing this?
Thank you for putting your desire to sell your product above the potential of cooperation and by lambasting a good product you showed your ignorance to what and how a system does truly get the best benefit.
DC DC chargers have their place in the market but there not the be all end all you try to make them out to be, more cost effective systems are available that work just as well in the majority of cases as the many users will agree with and statements that it is impossible to properly charge a battery of a vehicles charging system is just plain rubbish.
All sealed batteries whether AGM,Sealed Lead Acid and Gel are voltage sensitive and with over voltage can suffer water loss that cannot be replaced and your unit has proven to have the potential to do just that especially under bonnet batteries that are prone to a high ambient environment anyway so high ambient voltage increase on top of voltage fuses may be a recipe for disaster with the only thing saving auxiliary batteries being underwiring giving voltage drop relief to the batteries.
Hmmm interesting statement as all DC DC will at times in the charge cycles supply a considerably higher output voltage than the alternator ever will and generally at the end of the charging cycle when the battery is its hottest.
If as you say your not pushing your own barrow why did you come on here in the first place . I'm on to push my barrow of information but not to the extent that I'm in need of sales as I am a Grey Nomad in reality and my desire is to let people know what can be done and it is up to them to decide what to do for the best by sorting the wheat from the chaff.
I simply was making users aware there are alternatives, your the one who appears has become upset that it may affect your bottom line if members have choices.
As your charges are so effective, how about putting up on your website a few graphs showing how much better your chargers will perform at charging say two 100AH
batteries compared to an alternator running at around 14.3V, and battery life? I've had a quick look at your site and haven't been able to find such, actually I had a look at most
of the DC DC chargers manufacturers/ sellers sites and never been able to find such a comparison. Funny thing that.
Cheers
Leigh
- Edited by powerstream on Monday 6th of August 2012 09:04:25 AM
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 6th of August 2012 09:06:03 AM
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 6th of August 2012 09:08:11 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:19:09 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:20:41 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:25:59 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:27:24 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:30:00 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 11:21:50 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 11:24:26 AM
powerstream said
04:01 PM Aug 6, 2012
LeighW wrote:
powerstream wrote:
Due to the drop voltage issues of some alternators the start up threshold of some DC/DC chargers can be compromised and there is two ways to fix this and that is try a booster fuse and or modify the DC.charger to cater for the drop and the later is the better long term option.
Come on Ian, you knew the DC DC charger you were trying to market wouldn't work properly with the newer charging systems in the Toyotas so instead of doing the right thing and getting the manufacture to correct the issue you tried to use my device as a makes shift cure, doesn't sound like you have your customers best interests at heart to me.
The product in question was designed and successfully used in the marine market for many years and still is and was too in the RV market before the drop volt alternator and has a start up threshold of 13.35V and ramps up to full power at 13.5V and the alternator was dropping to 13.2V.
New units now being built will cater for the new threshold but in the interim I wanted to help people get the benefit now so I got your units for them to try.
I tried your Booster Fuse in a Diesel Landcruiser 100 Series and it took the voltage too high for a safe operation of the batteries under the bonnet so the owner would not use it and removed it . He rang you and you told him just use the fuse on its own dont use DC/DC char gers they are a waste of money.
My units have been installed in many 100 series and the output voltage has always remained in the range specified by Toyota as normal for a 100 series, if you have documented proof of overcharging please supply and I'll address the issue. I don't recall having said the above to any of your customers, I do recall a conversation though were one of your customers indicate he had complained to you of a problem with interference to his cars radio after your company installed a charger and one of my devices and you fobbed him of to me saying the booster was the problem. I told him the booster couldn't possibly cause the issue and to prove simply replace the booster with a fuse. We did get around to discussing the installation of my booster with one of your chargers, I said it does seem a waste of time to boost the alternator voltage then add a DC Dc charger, As I never heard from him again I assume the noise issue was with the charger you installed. By the way, if you were installing my booster in conjuction with your charger in an attemp to solve issues with your chargers why was your customer contacting me for support, surely you should have been doing this?
I doubt that Toyota would condone the use of product where the installation interferes with the computor and warranty of the vehicle in Question your unit does the Ster ling does not as it is an external fitment Batter y to Battery .
We do not do installation work as such and did not install the vehicles you refer to and it is not our responsibility for the way a product is thus installed.
Thank you for putting your desire to sell your product above the potential of cooperation and by lambasting a good product you showed your ignorance to what and how a system does truly get the best benefit.
DC DC chargers have their place in the market but there not the be all end all you try to make them out to be, more cost effective systems are available that work just as well in the majority of cases as the many users will agree with and statements that it is impossible to properly charge a battery of a vehicles charging system is just plain rubbish.
If a mains battery charger is the best method of charging due to the algorithms used giving them bulk absorption and float and a DC/DC charger can emulate that same charge regime then you may find it hard to convice people that you have a better solution.
All sealed batteries whether AGM,Sealed Lead Acid and Gel are voltage sensitive and with over voltage can suffer water loss that cannot be replaced and your unit has proven to have the potential to do just that especially under bonnet batteries that are prone to a high ambient environment anyway so high ambient voltage increase on top of voltage fuses may be a recipe for disaster with the only thing saving auxiliary batteries being underwiring giving voltage drop relief to the batteries.
Hmmm interesting statement as all DC DC will at times in the charge cycles supply a considerably higher output voltage than the alternator ever will and generally at the end of the charging cycle when the battery is its hottest.
That is why good DC/DC chargers have temperature compensation to protect the batteries the same as mains chargers can and reduce the amps during absorption and then if float occurs reduces both volts and amps.
Alternators are shut down early as they are dumb waitors and do not do that so the early shut back is to protect the batteries and also limits the charging ability.
If as you say your not pushing your own barrow why did you come on here in the first place . I'm on to push my barrow of information but not to the extent that I'm in need of sales as I am a Grey Nomad in reality and my desire is to let people know what can be done and it is up to them to decide what to do for the best by sorting the wheat from the chaff.
I simply was making users aware there are alternatives, your the one who appears has become upset that it may affect your bottom line if members have choices.
As your charges are so effective, how about putting up on your website a few graphs showing how much better your chargers will perform at charging say two 100AH
batteries compared to an alternator running at around 14.3V, and battery life? I've had a quick look at your site and haven't been able to find such, actually I had a look at most
of the DC DC chargers manufacturers/ sellers sites and never been able to find such a comparison. Funny thing that.
I do what I do because I enjoy it not because I have to so if I do nothing it costs nothing as I am not dictated to by sales targets or necessity.
If you did find the charts and details you wouldnt post them as they would prove you are wrong.
Ive taken the initiative to fill the gap with the Sterling and we are working on a DC/DC charger now to lower the input voltage to 12.9V to cater for those that are likely to need it between now and when the new units are available. I do not intend to say how it is to be done but I'm sure a smart salesman could not do it.
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-- Edited by powerstream on Tuesday 7th of August 2012 07:58:54 AM
powerstream said
07:01 PM Aug 6, 2012
Leigh All you need to do is Google Sterling Power Products and you will find all you need to know to understand that you know very little.
Ian
powerstream said
07:15 PM Aug 6, 2012
BTW Leigh Please tell everyone how an alternator being a dumb waiter with an added dumb waiter can produce charging to algorithms for bulk absorption and float and control battery voltage and battery temperature with temperature compensation to protect the batteries to discount the benefits of a good DC /DC Charger. Ian
LeighW said
07:16 PM Aug 6, 2012
powerstream wrote:
Leigh All you need to do is Google Sterling Power Products and you will find all you need to know to understand that you know very little.
Ian
I have Ian,
As usual, I can't find anywhere on their site where it shows a direct comparison of the recharge times, lifecycles etc of their DC DC charger compared to an directly connected alternator, perhaps you can provide the link address?
Anyway, seems pointless to continue this discussion as your obviously a very talented salesman, anyone who can sell a device to someone that won't work in his vehicle unless he also purchases a third party device to overcome its design flaws absolutely amazes me.
Cheers
Leigh
KerryandBruce said
07:41 PM Aug 6, 2012
Thanks for all the advice folks.
oldtrack123 said
08:10 PM Aug 6, 2012
HI Well IF I wanted to boost my alternator voltage I would certainly NOT be spending $42 for a diode !!
I could do it for $3
Peter
powerstream said
08:34 AM Aug 7, 2012
Regarding the original question. I may have overlooked it but the vehicle type should be checked to see what the alternator is producing on start up and then again after nothing less than a half hours driving to determine if the vehicle has a drop volt alternator If the vehicle has a drop volt alternator then it may be that the alternator only produces anywhere from 13.6V to 13.2V and if it goes to those figures then a problem will exist with charging a van battery with cable only and even with a booster fuse of 0.5V added to 13.2V only produces 13.7V which is just a float charge for most batteries and will fall well short of fully charging most batteries. If the alternator is producing 13.6V and you add the booster fuse that would mean that you may get 14 .1V and at that voltage you can charge US Gel and US AGM that are set to accept that voltage charge but those batteries are the expensive batteries. The 14 .4V to 14.8V range of voltage required for a lot of auxiliary batteries is far short of what can be produced and those figures are based on no allowance for voltage drop due to cable length and cable size. Calcium if used as an auxiliary needs 15.1V to charge correctly. The minimum cable size you should use for efficiency in most tow vehicle to caravan application is 6B&S and if less then you are not really charging your batteries correctly if at all. This sized cable should be used even with DC/DC chargers as the minimum to give the best efficency of what you use. Ian
-- Edited by powerstream on Tuesday 7th of August 2012 08:35:13 AM
LeighW said
11:18 AM Aug 7, 2012
I would urge readers to also check out the following links and many more available on the internet for more info:
That was incorrect advice; eg, you could put a heavy load on the van system & run it flat in an hour, but one hr driving will never recharge it.
If you were to consume 50 amp hrs from the van batt, then you need to supply 75 to 100 amp hrs to recharge it fully.
Even if you had a DC_DC fitted, you would need to drive for at least four hrs to recharge; A DC_DC will provide 20amps/hr , x 4 hrs is 80amps.
As the dc is a multi stage charger, boost, absorbtion & float this may take even longer.
JC.
Excellent books on the topic are available from this site http://www.caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/links.htm
(I'm out on the road at present and a little"late to the party" on this thread so I apologise if this has been previously mentioned)
Hi Kerry and Bruce,
I do have a solution you can run a separate charge line directly from your alternator via a 30 amp circuit breaker directly to the house batterys, I have done that with my campervan and have not had any problems, both of my deep cycle house batterys are always fully charged after a few hours driving,.....Hope that helps.....
Ash
-- Edited by Ash on Thursday 26th of July 2012 10:22:07 AM
The previous circuit is excellent though expensive, just a votage sensing isolator will set you back several hundreds of $ so I have fitted about 50 or more systems like this:
Hope it works.
Just a note, the battery feed to the van should either have a large Diode on the feed cable or at least fuse it at the house battery just incase the cable it gets damaged and dead shorts.
Remeber, always run cabling carefully where it has little chance of getting damaged and if you suspect it can get damaged then check it regularly, I know a few people who have lost vans and equipment by not checking.
Cheers,
Damo
Hi Damo, just a slight error in the pinout of your relay diagram which may cause a bit of confusion. The standard 5 pin auto relay has pin 30 as the common or input side of the switch, pins 87, 87 or 87, 87a or 87, 87b as the switched output side of the switch, and the coil between pins 85 and 86. Relays with two pins marked 87 have two output pins that are physically connected in the relay. The 87a type (aka a changover relay) has one normally open output contact (87) and one normally closed output contact (87a). The 87b type has two separate normally open output contacts which aren't connected to each other.
(I hope you don't mind me pinching part of your diagram)
Bob
The 87b type relay is usefull for fitting spotlights or similar higher current devices to reduce erosion of contacts by sharing the load between the two sets of contacts.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Saturday 28th of July 2012 05:11:49 PM
Sorry about the large diagram earlier posted. I found a link to a PDF that shows the common types of auto relays to clarify my previous post.
Automotive Relays
or here
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Saturday 28th of July 2012 05:37:06 PM
I recently purchased avoltage sensing isolator in the form of a Redarc "Smart Relay" http://redarc.com.au/products-and-services/sbi-series-dual-battery-isolator for $125 "show price". I understand the RRP is about $175, hardly "hundreds of dollars". Baintech and other suppliers have these for a similar price. By using this type of isolator there is no need to tap into the existing vehicle wiring to provide a control circuit as the isolator itself will do all the controlling.
I would not advocate the use of a diode in a charging cuircuit as this will cause a voltage drop of approx 0.7 volts due to the forward voltage of the diode. This would seriously limit the circuit's ability to charge a battery. I do endorse the use of a fuse or circuit breaker to protect against any short circuits.
Jim
We fit literally dozens of the Redarc ones to mine service vehicles every month and they seem to work very well. One advantace to them is that you can also fit a momentary switch which connects to the extra wire and, providing you have used heavy enough wire between the smart isolator and the batteries, you can use the auxilliary batteries to "boost" the start batteries when they are a bit low.
Edit: most of the vehicles we fit these too are 24V systems, that's why the plural batteries in my post. We also fit them to 12V systems as well.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Monday 30th of July 2012 07:25:04 PM
$175 plus $80 to $160 for fitting for most people ends up at well into the hundreds of $ mark well at least a couple of hundred anyway I would say.
A $7 relay, some cable and terminals plus half a day to the absolute novice or about $80 for an autoelec would be well within the boundries of most people just to charge an inhouse battery.
There is no big deal about breaking into the loom, there are normally plenty of wires you can tap with just a plug in terminal at your main fuse box under the bonnet, that's the first place I normally look and I havn't been wrong yet, you don't need anything big as it's just to switch the relay, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with your body computer is the only thing to worry about so test it to see that it's 12v and not 5v or something silly like that.
As far as Diodes go, I'm not quite sure of what you mean as your red arc system runs at least 4 on it's board so you must have massive drop in charging voltage but if your talking an active current sensing circuit as your so called diode (i.e Red arc) then yes, your talking about an UP TO 0.7 amp drop in current but I may be mistaken on what you mean there so please don't take it personally but I would like to know what you mean.
I've fit at least 50 of these systems and I appologise about the diagrahm, it was right off the top of my head and I should have checked a diagrahm to get it right and specified a NO or NC (normally open/closed) relay and 40a at least which is about the best you can get in the standard automotive relays but you can go up to 100, 200, 250amp relays if you want but your only charging a battery and in most cases it won't try and draw more than 10 to 20amps to charge it anyway.
Red arc is a great system and I'm not saying that this is as good but it does the job a crap load cheaper than fitting a voltage sensing system.
03 Troopy, cheers mate for that, always better to have someone correct a stuff up than stuff up because of what I have told them to do.
And not a prob with using my diagrahm, that's why i posted it.
Cheers Damo
-- Edited by Mccanic on Monday 30th of July 2012 10:13:33 PM
Ok just read up on what was referenced as Forward Voltage of a Diode on Wiki (handy at times if not accurate) and it brought back some memory of the old days of Electronics but this is what they say:
If an external voltage is placed across the diode with the same polarity as the built-in potential, the depletion zone continues to act as an insulator, preventing any significant electric current flow (unless electron/hole pairs are actively being created in the junction by, for instance, light. see photodiode). This is the reverse bias phenomenon. However, if the polarity of the external voltage opposes the built-in potential, recombination can once again proceed, resulting in substantial electric current through the pn junction (i.e. substantial numbers of electrons and holes recombine at the junction). For silicon diodes, the built-in potential is approximately 0.7 V (0.3 V for Germanium and 0.2 V for Schottky). Thus, if an external current is passed through the diode, about 0.7 V will be developed across the diode such that the P-doped region is positive with respect to the N-doped region and the diode is said to be "turned on" as it has a forward bias.
This is basically saying in layman's terms that if there is a reverse voltage (house battery) and then you add a forward voltage (car alternator charge) then the Diode will develop a 0.7v charge across the P N Junction (the one way valve for atoms inside the diode).
This is not a loss as such just what turns the diode on and is why Silicon Diodes need to have a 0.7v charge above their battery voltage to turn on so unless your system doesn't produce more than your depleted house battery then no I wouldn't consider fitting a Diode in the system but if your charging system is healthy and charges at 13.8v (most cars normal charging voltage) and your house battery is below 13.1v (which I would hope your stored voltage is) then there should not be a problem but again, my electronic theory is a bit rusty and I've been on the nuts and bolts for the last 20years so I could have something out of kilter and I would like to know if I have so not to steer anyone wrong.
The one thing that I remember that has stuck with me all these years though is that there should be no voltage loss from a diode as there is no resistance if within it's working range.
Cheers Damo
Hi Mccanic, what Jimricho is saying is that if you had a a battery of exactly 12V potential difference between the terminals, and you connected a resistor (load) in series with a diode (forward biased) across the terminals, you would see 11.3V dropped across the resistor and O.7V dropped across the diode.
Edit: As for the redarc or similar voltage sensing relays, the circuit board is only for sensing the voltage of you starting battery, and setting the switching voltages for the solenoid. Once the solenoid is energised the charge path is only via the contacts in the solenoid, not the circuit board. Once the starting battery has reached a charge voltage of 13.2V the circuit board allows the solenoid to be energised, connecting the aux battery so that it can then be charged. If the starting battery voltage drops to 12.7V, the solenoid is deenergised, thus dissconnecting the aux battery from the charging circuit.
Cheers Bob.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Tuesday 31st of July 2012 08:55:49 PM
a. You only have a forward voltage problem when there is current flow, when there is no current, the forward voltage will be the supply voltage on the forward side of the Diode.
b. The charge current is always a minimum of 1 to 1.3v higher than battery voltage so again that is more than the forward Voltage drop and so minimum charge voltage will be 12.5 to 12.8v which is fine, wont give you total charge but it will give you about 90% for a pretty good saving in $
c. The whole point of me posting this was not to say don't fit a Voltage sensing system, I have a piranha system in one of my Landies but just to give a cheaper, reliable option for the DIY'er to have a go at.
Sorry if I upset anyone, it was not my intension.
Cheers Damo
Thanks, Bob, a good summary.
To ensure effective charging of a van/house/aux battery from the alternator it is necessary to limit any voltage drop in the circuit as much as possible and therefore the use of diodes should be avoided. If wishing to isolate the charging circuit from the 3way fridge supply from the vehicle (and this should be done) methods other than diodes should be adopted. A DC-DC charger is good option for this and other reasons.
As a "by the way" I have a fully solid state (no mechanical contacts as in a relay) dual battery isolator between my main battery and my vehicle's aux battery and it has very little forward voltage (most likely uses a mosfet). It's a "Rotronics" unit and has given over 12 years of reliable service.
Jim
It is possible to charge a van battery from a car providing suitable cable is used, it will just take longer to
do so.
It should in most cases, be quicker to charge a battery to 95% SOC off an alternator than a DC DC charger.
The DC DC charger only being quicker for the last 5% and generally a lot slower to 95%.
As for modern vehicles, yes the charge voltage can be lower due to car manufacturers using excessive temperature
compensation to meet engine emission requirements. In this instance there are other lower cost options than
the use of DC DC charge and depending on the battery setup may provide much better results:
One could be to use Optima type batteries that will quickly charge at a lower voltage than a normal battery
and much quicker off an alternator than a DC DC charger.
Another could be to use an Alternator Voltage booster diode, but as manufacture on of one type of these
I have a vested interest in them so will leave the members to do their own research.
Cheers
LeighW
Leigh Im a bit disappointed that you didnt respond to the request for better and further particulars but anyway Im sure someone else may respond so that the readers get a better understanding.
Peter D posted up some links for DC/DC chargers and there are some anomalies in those links and one in particular is that one brand claims an efficency of 90% but in another forum it was posted that under that posters circumstances the unit in question was using input amps far greater than the output amps that if would seem impossible for it to get anywhere near the claimed efficiency so I would think that where a unit uses a lower voltage to convert the amp draw is larger especially when the DOD (Depth of Discharge ) is high on the receiving batteries.
The other thing that appears wrong is in the Sterling DC/DC literature it is claimed the unit sizes are 60A and 100A and I'm sorry neither of these units exist and this can be checked by looking at the Sterling website in the UK where those sizes are not listed in the UK Euro shop which they should be if available.
There has been a !2V 100A on the drawing board but it has never materialised.
The ones that might get there sooner are DC/DC tow chargers that are waterproof and may come in 60A and 90A followed up by the Wildside Series that will be DC/DC charging with MPPT Solar and should come in 16A, 30A, 60A and 90A.
Regards
Ian
-- Edited by powerstream on Friday 3rd of August 2012 11:39:46 AM
-- Edited by powerstream on Friday 3rd of August 2012 11:40:45 AM
I hope this helps people get a better understanding of the battery type AGM.
The resistance of the battery combined with recombination technology controls what the battery will accept and is at its best when the charging system also has temperature compensation.
Regards
Ian
HI Ian
I think Leigh may be suffering from info overload & by now a little confused
She probably does not realize /understand just how important the answers to YOUR questions are for a good factual answer to the OP questions
Peter
Leigh is a male and I believe a technician and from the Melbourne area of Victoria.
There are two supposed makers of the smart fuse and Leigh would have the best product .
I bought a few hundred dollars of his product as I believed the voltage boost would enhanse the use of DC/DC chargers where some to me actively and possibly unknowingly promote underwiring and inneficiency of their own operation by using lowervoltage acceptance and forcing the use of more amps input to produce the stated amps capacity output and in one instance one unit in use pulled a massive increase in amps in to produce amps out that it made the stated 90% efficiency as claimed look rediculous.
I have reservations about the specific voltage produced in some instances by the smart fuse for underbonnet continuous charging use and without the installation of a DC/DC charger controlling the voltage there could be battery damage in underbonnet applications.
If Leigh genuinely has the knowledge reqired he would answer the questions and work to promote the use of his product that compliments it rather than claiming it as the end all to be all which it is definately not.
Its good to see you come on again Leigh and prove that you know nothing about DC/DC chargers and are prepared to deride a product to just push your own barrow.
Small DC/DC chargers do leave a lot to be desired in their capacity in time frame to better a cable only system and especialy one with a voltage booster that has the ability to recognise the potential for over voltage and temperature compensation but to date the voltage booster is a dumbwaiter and cannot perform the functions mentioned and required.
Well designed DC/DC chargers with full bulk absorption and float and with temperature compensation have the capability to work with alternators up to 300A and they come in three types (1) Alternator Smart Regulators, (2) Alternator to Battery Chargers and (3) Battery to Battery Chargers.
All units come with the ability to temperature compensate alternators and batteries.
Due to the drop voltage issues of some alternators the start up threshold of some DC/DC chargers can be compromised and there is two ways to fix this and that is try a booster fuse and or modify the DC.charger to cater for the drop and the later is the better long term option.
I tried your Booster Fuse in a Diesel Landcruiser 100 Series and it took the voltage too high for a safe operation of the batteries under the bonnet so the owner would not use it and removed it .
He rang you and you told him just use the fuse on its own dont use DC/DC char gers they are a waste of money.
Thank you for putting your desire to sell your product above the potential of cooperation and by lambasting a good product you showed your ignorance to what and how a system does truly get the best benefit.
All sealed batteries whether AGM,Sealed Lead Acid and Gel are voltage sensitive and with over voltage can suffer water loss that cannot be replaced and your unit has proven to have the potential to do just that especially under bonnet batteries that are prone to a high ambient environment anyway so high ambient voltage increase on top of voltage fuses may be a recipe for disaster with the only thing saving auxiliary batteries being underwiring giving voltage drop relief to the batteries.
If as you say your not pushing your own barrow why did you come on here in the first place .
I'm on to push my barrow of information but not to the extent that I'm in need of sales as I am a Grey Nomad in reality and my desire is to let people know what can be done and it is up to them to decide what to do for the best by sorting the wheat from the chaff.
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 6th of August 2012 09:04:25 AM
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 6th of August 2012 09:06:03 AM
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 6th of August 2012 09:08:11 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:19:09 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:20:41 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:25:59 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:27:24 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 10:30:00 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 11:21:50 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Monday 6th of August 2012 11:24:26 AM
-- Edited by powerstream on Tuesday 7th of August 2012 07:58:54 AM
All you need to do is Google Sterling Power Products and you will find all you need to know to understand that you know very little.
Ian
Please tell everyone how an alternator being a dumb waiter with an added dumb waiter can produce charging to algorithms for bulk absorption and float and control battery voltage and battery temperature with temperature compensation to protect the batteries to discount the benefits of a good DC /DC Charger.
Ian
I have Ian,
As usual, I can't find anywhere on their site where it shows a direct comparison of the recharge times, lifecycles etc of their DC DC charger compared to an directly connected alternator, perhaps you can provide the link address?
Anyway, seems pointless to continue this discussion as your obviously a very talented salesman, anyone who can sell a device to someone that won't work in his vehicle unless he also purchases a third party device to overcome its design flaws absolutely amazes me.
Cheers
Leigh
HI
Well IF I wanted to boost my alternator voltage I would certainly NOT be spending $42 for a diode !!
I could do it for $3
Peter
Regarding the original question.
I may have overlooked it but the vehicle type should be checked to see what the alternator is producing on start up and then again after nothing less than a half hours driving to determine if the vehicle has a drop volt alternator
If the vehicle has a drop volt alternator then it may be that the alternator only produces anywhere from 13.6V to 13.2V and if it goes to those figures then a problem will exist with charging a van battery with cable only and even with a booster fuse of 0.5V added to 13.2V only produces 13.7V which is just a float charge for most batteries and will fall well short of fully charging most batteries.
If the alternator is producing 13.6V and you add the booster fuse that would mean that you may get 14 .1V and at that voltage you can charge US Gel and US AGM that are set to accept that voltage charge but those batteries are the expensive batteries.
The 14 .4V to 14.8V range of voltage required for a lot of auxiliary batteries is far short of what can be produced and those figures are based on no allowance for voltage drop due to cable length and cable size.
Calcium if used as an auxiliary needs 15.1V to charge correctly.
The minimum cable size you should use for efficiency in most tow vehicle to caravan application is 6B&S and if less then you are not really charging your batteries correctly if at all.
This sized cable should be used even with DC/DC chargers as the minimum to give the best efficency of what you use.
Ian
-- Edited by powerstream on Tuesday 7th of August 2012 08:35:13 AM
I would urge readers to also check out the following links and many more available on the internet for more info:
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?16059-charging-rate
http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=23704.25
Again, do your research and find out what's best for your perticular requirements.
Cheers
LeighW
-- Edited by LeighW on Tuesday 7th of August 2012 11:36:55 AM
-- Edited by LeighW on Tuesday 7th of August 2012 09:27:36 PM