Golddetectornomad wrote: When some enterprising entrepreneur recognises what potential there is in providing even basic security to travelling Nomads round this great Country by marshalling the forces of farmers on the outskirts of Towns and City's to provide secure fenced land with reasonable all weather access,then you will see a quantum shift in the thinking of all the above demographic groups of Caravan Parks..in short competition is what they all need...it will happen and I hope sooner rather than later...Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 1st of February 2013 12:47:45 AM
I agree Golddetectornomad, and a lot of farmers have gone over to tourism to add to their very small cash flow... however local councils and insurance companies make things VERY difficult and expensive for them to do this. We need a shift in the definition of a "caravan park" for insurance purposes.
lyn-n-ken said
04:27 PM Feb 1, 2013
HI, We wont pay for what we dont need being: play gorunds etc so usually stay at parks without and they tend to be a bit cheaper. A toilet block is cleaned every day and no mater what time of year it is or how many people are staying in a park it takes the same amount of time and cost to do so. Yes there is a bit more paper work in the office during peak seasons but people stay longer so its not a daily thing. A large Majority of parks have permanents and thats a parks bread and butter and us travellers are the cream and jam, I can't see that its warrented to double, triple quadruple prices just because its Christmas, Easter or any other holiday or because there some big event in a town. After all they will get more customers during those times. We are on the road permanently and only travel short distances between towns, that way we see more in those areas, and staying at least 2 weeks, stayed 3 months at a park once and loved it. We always stay in parks. We are on a pension. We research the parks befor we go to them and make sure of the costs. Even do a day trip sometimes to see what there like. So thats my 2bobs worth for what its worth. Staying at Casino at the moment at the Glen Villa CP and guess what they dont put their prices up, its $20 a night $120 a week all year round, the park and toilets are clean and manegment are friendly, were on a double cement site. Been here 6 weeks. One has to live according to ones means and wants. Regards Lyn
johnnz said
05:58 PM Feb 1, 2013
Yes Roving I have to agree with your comments, I think we are better off than the average American. It's I have just returned (19/01/2013) from the US, there is always that shock on the price differance.
BTW Roving I just lurv your pic. (Holy Cow).
Johnnz
dazren said
06:35 PM Feb 1, 2013
gordonadl wrote [ in part ]
Like many businesses, you run some months in the red and other months in the black, but to make a profit you need to charge more during the season. It's very typical of all businesses, not just caravan parks.
No business i know would operate under those procedures ? a business would always set a budget every month, and that budget would be set to meet all overheads and outgoings, and also allow for a profit margin, any BA [ business analist ] will tell you that you cannot run a successful business by running in the red in the quiter months, hoping for and good return [ which may not come ? ] in the busy months,
there is also the situation of cash flow, Heaven help any business, that would operate 3 months in a row, with the books in the Red, All business that i have Owned, Managed, or been involved with all budget to make ends meet, and yes they have the quite months where turnover is slow,? but they make a profit margin, albeit on lower turnover figures, and when they have the good or busy months the turnover figures are much higher, Yielding more profit, but that is because of the higher turnover, Not inflating prices.
So in my humble opinion all businesess, including caravan parks, should have a business plan, and budget, that covers the running of the business ALL YEAR. and the pricing should be consistent over that whole year, and prices should be set at rates that are consistent, competative, and Most importantly Viable and profitable over every month of the year. If that means ''off season'' rates need to go up a little, Do It ! But don't expect your customer to come off season, and pay $30, then come back in the high season, and pay $70, for the same services [ only more crowded ], Balance out the price over the full year at a consistent say ?? $40 ,
brickies said
06:46 PM Feb 1, 2013
Would like to hear from someone who has been in the bussiness , Where are you OZJohn
rockylizard said
06:59 PM Feb 1, 2013
dazren wrote:
gordonadl wrote [ in part ]
Like many businesses, you run some months in the red and other months in the black, but to make a profit you need to charge more during the season. It's very typical of all businesses, not just caravan parks.
No business i know would operate under those procedures ? a business would always set a budget every month, and that budget would be set to meet all overheads and outgoings, and also allow for a profit margin, any BA [ business analist ] will tell you that you cannot run a successful business by running in the red in the quiter months, hoping for and good return [ which may not come ? ] in the busy months,
there is also the situation of cash flow, Heaven help any business, that would operate 3 months in a row, with the books in the Red, All business that i have Owned, Managed, or been involved with all budget to make ends meet, and yes they have the quite months where turnover is slow,? but they make a profit margin, albeit on lower turnover figures, and when they have the good or busy months the turnover figures are much higher, Yielding more profit, but that is because of the higher turnover, Not inflating prices.
So in my humble opinion all businesess, including caravan parks, should have a business plan, and budget, that covers the running of the business ALL YEAR. and the pricing should be consistent over that whole year, and prices should be set at rates that are consistent, competative, and Most importantly Viable and profitable over every month of the year. If that means ''off season'' rates need to go up a little, Do It ! But don't expect your customer to come off season, and pay $30, then come back in the high season, and pay $70, for the same services [ only more crowded ], Balance out the price over the full year at a consistent say ?? $40 ,
Gday...
I understand your comments dazren ... but when I commenced my own business in the 1990s and I was developing my business plan, budget and cashflow requirements, my accountant and financial adviser both stressed that if you were a small business you needed to have 'uncommitted capital' to allow you to live your normal lifestyle for 3 months. This was because there could be many times during the year when there may be little or no cashflow to cover the 'recurring expenses'.
The budget and cashflow budget should be developed on an annual basis rather than a monthly basis - cashflow rarely complies with your recurring expenses.
As the business prospers (hopefully) the need for the "3 month buffer" may reduce, but prudence suggests it was wise to maintain that management.
It should be noted that the vast majority of business providing "services" have a 'peak' tariff and an 'off-peak' tariff - train travel is an example - the reason for the 'off-peak' tariff is to attract clientele during the 'slow' times. It goes without saying, and you are quite correct, if people get a service at $30 'off-peak' and return in the 'peak' and are asked to pay $70 the long term prosperity of that business will be reducedd
Cheers - John
brickies said
07:51 PM Feb 1, 2013
Well put john also if there was not a peak tariff we would find the normal off peak would be higher I do beleive the high tariff helps to kept the off peak down , And if you are on the road full time don't go to these places that charge peak tariff go the other times of the year
Golddetectornomad said
09:24 PM Feb 1, 2013
It would only take several farmers to set up 'Security RV Parks' and once a model was up and running....many would follow....Insurance Company's would soon be interested when they see that we represent very small Liability to the Landowner.....Town business's would support after all the initial rhetoric has died down, drummed up by that protected species called the Towns' Caravan Parks.. and they may be forced to truely compete for business for a change...Councils would also tend to fall into line with the idea of 'Security RV Parks'.. when the positives are seen for what they really are...Most Councils in Country Towns have farmer representation in either case to support the idea...Independant Living RV's with self contained facilites are currently seen as a threat by vested interests to contain what and where they can go....but this cant last forever as the tidal wave of new Nomads will force changes..its already happening....Councils provide a Dump Point...Security RV parks provide the users....Business's in Towns that embrace the idea will be winners....I really dont care if XYZ Caravan Park with overcapitalised facilities is 110% full for only three months of the year as they see their market driving by for the other 9 months.....it can all happen...and it will happen....hopefully in our productive life times...believe me having been involved in selling Caravan Parks they certainly are not all created the same...some owners should be paid in pesos for the lack of true service and management skills they display in "running their business's because many have been protected in the past.....many Caravan Parks for true Caravan stays have disappeared under the guise of Cottage accomodation which then are sold individually and before you know it they are no longer interested in providing any overnight sites whatsoever and Councils go along with these ideas driven usually by force with the owners doing it by stealth developing more of their parks to permanents every year....Security RV Parks are a new idea for now but wont stay like that much longer IMO.......Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 1st of February 2013 09:27:34 PM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 1st of February 2013 09:31:22 PM
dazren said
10:07 PM Feb 1, 2013
rockylizard wrote
Gday...
I understand your comments dazren ... but when I commenced my own business in the 1990s and I was developing my business plan, budget and cashflow requirements, my accountant and financial adviser both stressed that if you were a small business you needed to have 'uncommitted capital' to allow you to live your normal lifestyle for 3 months. This was because there could be many times during the year when there may be little or no cashflow to cover the 'recurring expenses'.
The budget and cashflow budget should be developed on an annual basis rather than a monthly basis - cashflow rarely complies with your recurring expenses.
As the business prospers (hopefully) the need for the "3 month buffer" may reduce, but prudence suggests it was wise to maintain that management.
It should be noted that the vast majority of business providing "services" have a 'peak' tariff and an 'off-peak' tariff - train travel is an example - the reason for the 'off-peak' tariff is to attract clientele during the 'slow' times. It goes without saying, and you are quite correct, if people get a service at $30 'off-peak' and return in the 'peak' and are asked to pay $70 the long term prosperity of that business will be reducedd
Gidday John, what you have written also makes sense to me, and was ''well put'' I suppose it just goes to show that there are many different types of business out there, and there is not 1 formula to suit all, ? I have never owned or managed a caravan park, but my parents owned one in Queenscliffe back in the late 90s [ 80 sites ] they had a yearly business plan and budget, and done very well ! and never put up the prices in peak periods
In my business i was suppyling Pipe, valves, fittings, Engineering supplies, and safety equipment, to a wide and varied range of businesses, I bought a business trading in the red, within 8 months we had it in the black, we had a reputation of being service orientated, knowledgable, competitively priced, and a friendly can do and will do attitude, We gave the customer what he wanted ?? and this kept him coming back, Which in any retail business, that is the success ? ''Repeat Business'' when i bought the business it came with 4 existing staff, [ with the wrong ''attitude'' ] but with the new managment thier attitude changed, and they worked for the company, not just a pay packet, and hence they also shared in the company profits, By the time i sold that business, we had a staff level of 12 including myself and my partner, So every month that turnover had to meet all outgoings, as well as 12 pay packets, ?? I used to judge how we were performing over three month periods, If we made budget over thee consecutive months, the Co was doing fantastic, if made budget over two of those months, we were doing all right, If we did not make budget, in three consecutive months, [ which never happend ] But if it did then some serious re-constructions would have to be Implemented.
Better close this now John, as i see a couple of the un-offical forum police could be on line, and i have just realised i am not in '' I digress''
In short i suppose i am saying, we are both right, and also the people that are running those caravan parks are also right, as they are doing what they see is right for thier situation ?? It's not our Bed ? so we should'nt make it Eh ?
Cruising Granny said
06:53 AM Feb 2, 2013
I live in a van park full time @ $180 per week, including power. I get clean amenities, rubbish disposal, a nicely managed park in a convenient location, with security. I know my van will be there when I get home from a long trip. On that long trip I free camp with the convoy of truck drivers and other pilots. On the way home I may camp in van park cabins where I can eat what I cook, enjoy a bit of telly, and catch up with my emails etc. It's the best of both worlds. I don't have real estate and furniture. It's all about personal preference and available funds. I've lived full time in van parks since 1998, in Broome, Cairns and now Adelaide. Unfortunately the "profiteering" during the peak season is the time to catch up with the bills and to cover the mainentance which follows in the quiet season. I wish they'd balance it out throughout the year, but we all know someone has to pay the bills. And "Golddetectornomad", I like it. Farmers could always do with extra cash, and maybe a bit of help around the house and the paddock. There are a few doing it as homestays with camping areas, some powered. I stayed in one on the Daly River. There are several farms or mango gardens there which take campers with river frontage, complete with snappy handbags. The fishing is good and local knowledge is a wonderful thing.
I agree Golddetectornomad, and a lot of farmers have gone over to tourism to add to their very small cash flow... however local councils and insurance companies make things VERY difficult and expensive for them to do this. We need a shift in the definition of a "caravan park" for insurance purposes.
We wont pay for what we dont need being: play gorunds etc so usually stay at parks without and they tend to be a bit cheaper. A toilet block is cleaned every day and no mater what time of year it is or how many people are staying in a park it takes the same amount of time and cost to do so. Yes there is a bit more paper work in the office during peak seasons but people stay longer so its not a daily thing. A large Majority of parks have permanents and thats a parks bread and butter and us travellers are the cream and jam, I can't see that its warrented to double, triple quadruple prices just because its Christmas, Easter or any other holiday or because there some big event in a town. After all they will get more customers during those times.
We are on the road permanently and only travel short distances between towns, that way we see more in those areas, and staying at least 2 weeks, stayed 3 months at a park once and loved it.
We always stay in parks.
We are on a pension.
We research the parks befor we go to them and make sure of the costs. Even do a day trip sometimes to see what there like.
So thats my 2bobs worth for what its worth.
Staying at Casino at the moment at the Glen Villa CP and guess what they dont put their prices up, its $20 a night $120 a week all year round, the park and toilets are clean and manegment are friendly, were on a double cement site. Been here 6 weeks.
One has to live according to ones means and wants.
Regards
Lyn
Yes Roving I have to agree with your comments, I think we are better off than the average American. It's I have just returned (19/01/2013) from the US, there is always that shock on the price differance.
BTW Roving I just lurv your pic. (Holy Cow).
Johnnz
gordonadl wrote [ in part ]
Like many businesses, you run some months in the red and other months in the black, but to make a profit you need to charge more during the season. It's very typical of all businesses, not just caravan parks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is also the situation of cash flow, Heaven help any business, that would operate 3 months in a row, with the books in the Red, All business that i have Owned, Managed, or been involved with all budget to make ends meet, and yes they have the quite months where turnover is slow,? but they make a profit margin, albeit on lower turnover figures, and when they have the good or busy months the turnover figures are much higher, Yielding more profit, but that is because of the higher turnover, Not inflating prices.
So in my humble opinion all businesess, including caravan parks, should have a business plan, and budget, that covers the running of the business ALL YEAR. and the pricing should be consistent over that whole year, and prices should be set at rates that are consistent, competative, and Most importantly Viable and profitable over every month of the year. If that means ''off season'' rates need to go up a little, Do It ! But don't expect your customer to come off season, and pay $30, then come back in the high season, and pay $70, for the same services [ only more crowded ], Balance out the price over the full year at a consistent say ?? $40 ,
Gday...
I understand your comments dazren ... but when I commenced my own business in the 1990s and I was developing my business plan, budget and cashflow requirements, my accountant and financial adviser both stressed that if you were a small business you needed to have 'uncommitted capital' to allow you to live your normal lifestyle for 3 months. This was because there could be many times during the year when there may be little or no cashflow to cover the 'recurring expenses'.
The budget and cashflow budget should be developed on an annual basis rather than a monthly basis - cashflow rarely complies with your recurring expenses.
As the business prospers (hopefully) the need for the "3 month buffer" may reduce, but prudence suggests it was wise to maintain that management.
It should be noted that the vast majority of business providing "services" have a 'peak' tariff and an 'off-peak' tariff - train travel is an example - the reason for the 'off-peak' tariff is to attract clientele during the 'slow' times. It goes without saying, and you are quite correct, if people get a service at $30 'off-peak' and return in the 'peak' and are asked to pay $70 the long term prosperity of that business will be reducedd
Cheers - John
It would only take several farmers to set up 'Security RV Parks' and once a model was up and running....many would follow....Insurance Company's would soon be interested when they see that we represent very small Liability to the Landowner.....Town business's would support after all the initial rhetoric has died down, drummed up by that protected species called the Towns' Caravan Parks.. and they may be forced to truely compete for business for a change...Councils would also tend to fall into line with the idea of 'Security RV Parks'.. when the positives are seen for what they really are...Most Councils in Country Towns have farmer representation in either case to support the idea...Independant Living RV's with self contained facilites are currently seen as a threat by vested interests to contain what and where they can go....but this cant last forever as the tidal wave of new Nomads will force changes..its already happening....Councils provide a Dump Point...Security RV parks provide the users....Business's in Towns that embrace the idea will be winners....I really dont care if XYZ Caravan Park with overcapitalised facilities is 110% full for only three months of the year as they see their market driving by for the other 9 months.....it can all happen...and it will happen....hopefully in our productive life times...believe me having been involved in selling Caravan Parks they certainly are not all created the same...some owners should be paid in pesos for the lack of true service and management skills they display in "running their business's because many have been protected in the past.....many Caravan Parks for true Caravan stays have disappeared under the guise of Cottage accomodation which then are sold individually and before you know it they are no longer interested in providing any overnight sites whatsoever and Councils go along with these ideas driven usually by force with the owners doing it by stealth developing more of their parks to permanents every year....Security RV Parks are a new idea for now but wont stay like that much longer IMO.......Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 1st of February 2013 09:27:34 PM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 1st of February 2013 09:31:22 PM
Gday...
I understand your comments dazren ... but when I commenced my own business in the 1990s and I was developing my business plan, budget and cashflow requirements, my accountant and financial adviser both stressed that if you were a small business you needed to have 'uncommitted capital' to allow you to live your normal lifestyle for 3 months. This was because there could be many times during the year when there may be little or no cashflow to cover the 'recurring expenses'.
The budget and cashflow budget should be developed on an annual basis rather than a monthly basis - cashflow rarely complies with your recurring expenses.
As the business prospers (hopefully) the need for the "3 month buffer" may reduce, but prudence suggests it was wise to maintain that management.
It should be noted that the vast majority of business providing "services" have a 'peak' tariff and an 'off-peak' tariff - train travel is an example - the reason for the 'off-peak' tariff is to attract clientele during the 'slow' times. It goes without saying, and you are quite correct, if people get a service at $30 'off-peak' and return in the 'peak' and are asked to pay $70 the long term prosperity of that business will be reducedd
Cheers - John
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gidday John, what you have written also makes sense to me, and was ''well put'' I suppose it just goes to show that there are many different types of business out there, and there is not 1 formula to suit all, ? I have never owned or managed a caravan park, but my parents owned one in Queenscliffe back in the late 90s [ 80 sites ] they had a yearly business plan and budget, and done very well ! and never put up the prices in peak periods
In my business i was suppyling Pipe, valves, fittings, Engineering supplies, and safety equipment, to a wide and varied range of businesses, I bought a business trading in the red, within 8 months we had it in the black, we had a reputation of being service orientated, knowledgable, competitively priced, and a friendly can do and will do attitude, We gave the customer what he wanted ?? and this kept him coming back, Which in any retail business, that is the success ? ''Repeat Business'' when i bought the business it came with 4 existing staff, [ with the wrong ''attitude'' ] but with the new managment thier attitude changed, and they worked for the company, not just a pay packet, and hence they also shared in the company profits, By the time i sold that business, we had a staff level of 12 including myself and my partner, So every month that turnover had to meet all outgoings, as well as 12 pay packets, ?? I used to judge how we were performing over three month periods, If we made budget over thee consecutive months, the Co was doing fantastic, if made budget over two of those months, we were doing all right, If we did not make budget, in three consecutive months, [ which never happend ] But if it did then some serious re-constructions would have to be Implemented.
Better close this now John, as i see a couple of the un-offical forum police could be on line, and i have just realised i am not in '' I digress''
In short i suppose i am saying, we are both right, and also the people that are running those caravan parks are also right, as they are doing what they see is right for thier situation ?? It's not our Bed ? so we should'nt make it Eh ?
On that long trip I free camp with the convoy of truck drivers and other pilots. On the way home I may camp in van park cabins where I can eat what I cook, enjoy a bit of telly, and catch up with my emails etc.
It's the best of both worlds. I don't have real estate and furniture.
It's all about personal preference and available funds. I've lived full time in van parks since 1998, in Broome, Cairns and now Adelaide.
Unfortunately the "profiteering" during the peak season is the time to catch up with the bills and to cover the mainentance which follows in the quiet season.
I wish they'd balance it out throughout the year, but we all know someone has to pay the bills.
And "Golddetectornomad", I like it. Farmers could always do with extra cash, and maybe a bit of help around the house and the paddock. There are a few doing it as homestays with camping areas, some powered. I stayed in one on the Daly River. There are several farms or mango gardens there which take campers with river frontage, complete with snappy handbags. The fishing is good and local knowledge is a wonderful thing.