Thats a neat unit you have there Westy,I like it, in fact I wouldn't mind one to put my gennie in.
Ashley
herbie said
02:09 PM Aug 25, 2013
Was talking to my son who is in the insurance industry ( must admit here that we do not speak about insurance all that often as in most cases it can get pretty heated as to me insurance is a necessary evil )
Asked him about boxes added to caravan/ motor home after build.
His answer was that unless it has been certified by an engineer, insurance companies can and have the right to null and void a claim.
He said one such claim just recently had been knocked back due to this very reason.
-- Edited by herbie on Sunday 25th of August 2013 05:18:43 PM
Jaffa said
09:17 PM Aug 25, 2013
Thanks Herb,
You have made my decision easy I will not be putting a box on.
Thanking you
moamajohn said
02:09 AM Aug 26, 2013
I guess the Ins co,s differ cause when I had the smash in my van I was in attendance when the assessor came out he made mention of how neat the box looked.
hako said
04:16 AM Aug 26, 2013
I had a mate on Queensland Transport who used to help operate what is called in Queensland "the shaker"...it's a drive-on platform that shakes any vehicle and quickly shows any worn suspension components - also does a 4 wheel brake test amongst other things. Anyway, he said that no matter what the car and even if it just rolled off the production line that they could find a fault that would make the vehicle "unroadworthy" if they so wished.
I queried him on this regarding how insurance companies could use such tests in the case of claims and he said that 'generally speaking', the fault must be proven to have contributed to the incident for it to affect a claim.
herbie said
05:36 AM Aug 26, 2013
I agree in what you are saying but I also go on what my son explained to me re the weight/and other factors that come into it.
He explained it is no different today adding gear to the back of caravans/ motor homes than adding extra gear to any vehicle .
Even adding ball bar/ and such things require letting your insurer know as they class this as extra/ modifications.
He went onto say things have really changed in the last few years regarding modifications/ (as they call it in insurance terms) Add ONs ...due to increase in claims.
If for some reason you had an accident and someone was killed,when the police do all their investigation any add on that was not approved could make it very difficult for you to have a claim accepted....He was also telling me that caravan claims have gone through the roof in the past two years.
wasn_me said
05:35 PM Aug 27, 2013
ozjohn wrote:
Depending on the rear overhang, the weight of the box on the rear can increase 10 fold as the van moves up and down and/or sideways. So 60Kg can easily become up to 600Kg. OJ
The problem with yaw or "sway" particularly induced by the addition of weight to the rear of van, is, it might tow perfectly ok at 90 klm/hr then be a complete nightmare to tow at 95 klm/hr.
wasn_me said
05:43 PM Aug 27, 2013
Nomadicman wrote:
I am about to get my first van and am interested about such questions of weight, balance, legality. But on weight and balance, surely if you put an equivalent weight atthe other end (or equivalent according to the principle of moments) it won't affect the handling. And isn't it covered by the rules regarding down weight on the tow ball? Comply with that and you should be ok? Or am I missing sth?
Counter balancing "might" help up & down movement, but will have no effect on yaw or "sway". If severe enough it could make it worse, by assisting to force the tug rear wheels sideways on the road.
JayDee said
06:02 PM Sep 16, 2013
moamajohn wrote:
Here it is
I have had two checker plate containers placed on the rear bumper either side of the spare wheel. This was to ensure that the weight was balanced. Also made sure that I reinforced the bumper bar to the main bearers of van.
No issues towing on our 3000 klms trip thus far.
Jay&Dee
hako said
07:12 PM Sep 16, 2013
Re modifications affecting insurance claims - in states which require an annual safety/roadworthy inspection, surely passing this test would warrant that the caravan met all relevant safety requirements, or an I being naive. Also when insurance companies (in the past) asked for all modifications, it was said to be so that the modification would be covered by the insurance in the event of a claim.....things like annexes, airconditioners jerry can holders.
Gerty Dancer said
07:22 PM Sep 16, 2013
We found that roadworthy's only apply to caravans when first registered Hako.
hako said
08:31 PM Sep 16, 2013
Gerty Dancer wrote:
We found that roadworthy's only apply to caravans when first registered Hako.
Gerty - apparently at least in NSW you must get a 'pink slip' RWC annually for vans over 5 years old. In Qld you must get a RWC when you sell a van. I'd hate to live in a state where you must get annual inspections done. My BIL just got one to transfer from NSW to QLD - cost $55 and the inspector didn't even inspect it except for a quick walk around, but I suppose it make the van 'legal'.
Regards
Gerty Dancer said
08:36 PM Sep 16, 2013
Geez, have only been in NSW 10 months so didn't know that. Thanks Hako. We are currently trying to work out how to re-register the Prado as we'll be in Rockhampton when its due, cant get a RWC in Qld, they expect you to drive back to NSW.
barina said
08:42 PM Sep 16, 2013
The MH I bought has boxes at the rear the previous owners stored generators in them.
-- Edited by barina on Monday 16th of September 2013 08:43:30 PM
-- Edited by barina on Monday 16th of September 2013 08:44:39 PM
-- Edited by barina on Monday 16th of September 2013 08:48:51 PM
You can get a roadworthy certificate in any state to comply with NSW requirements you will need your rego papers, which you then post back to the RTA with your pink slip and your payment The pink slip is only required after the van or car is over 5 years old
In the other states it is just harder to find a checking station they are there, as if you get a defect notice you must then get a roadworthy after the defect is fixed.
Cheers
David
Oxley said
09:06 PM Sep 16, 2013
In NSW the pink slip is a safety check, not a design check, unless its a truck and then those are done by the RTA themselves and they do a design check, I know of one bus operator that needs to show engineers reports every rego check.
For example I had someone bring in a old short wheel base land cruiser all hopped up with mods that made it into a monster truck, technically and by the book, it was safe, but that didn't stop the highway patrol defecting the vehicle 2 days later due to lack of engineers report on all of the modifications, the little punk got all legaled up (Daddy's money) and and made a formally complaint to the RTA, who after a 18 month investigation found we had done the right thing.
Baz421 said
10:45 PM Sep 16, 2013
I think the yaw video is irrelevant in this debate as is the research and I believe it DOESN'T APPLY to this threads original post.
The reasons:
the yaw study video moved 50% of the weight to the rear of the model and induced greater instability,,, as expected.
This thread is about a box NO WHERE NEAR 50% OF THE WEIGHT OF THE CARAVAN,,, where say a 100Kg in box on a 3 ton ATM van is ONLY APPROX 3% OF THE WEIGHT. Further more the weight of the ORIGINAL VAN IS NOT MOVED only added to.
The engineers I've worked for previously would rip this arguement to bits. I'm not qualified to do the maths here for you but if we are going to compare apples with apples we need to take more care, IMHO.
sandsmere said
02:56 AM Sep 17, 2013
Jaffa , not putting the box on the back is the right decision .
Mark said
03:42 AM Sep 17, 2013
Jaffa wrote:
Can any body tell me if it would be legal yo have a chequer plate 2mm box welded to the back bar of my caravan it would be 1250x600Dx680H.
Jaffa
I know that WAY back on the 25th August you took the decision to NOT install a box on the back of the van, which I too think was a wise choice, but.....................
As a matter of interest, do you still follow this thread??
Ashley
Was talking to my son who is in the insurance industry ( must admit here that we do not speak about insurance all that often as in most cases it can get pretty heated as to me insurance is a necessary evil )
Asked him about boxes added to caravan/ motor home after build.
His answer was that unless it has been certified by an engineer, insurance companies can and have the right to null and void a claim.
He said one such claim just recently had been knocked back due to this very reason.
-- Edited by herbie on Sunday 25th of August 2013 05:18:43 PM
You have made my decision easy I will not be putting a box on.
Thanking you
I queried him on this regarding how insurance companies could use such tests in the case of claims and he said that 'generally speaking', the fault must be proven to have contributed to the incident for it to affect a claim.
I agree in what you are saying but I also go on what my son explained to me re the weight/and other factors that come into it.
He explained it is no different today adding gear to the back of caravans/ motor homes than adding extra gear to any vehicle .
Even adding ball bar/ and such things require letting your insurer know as they class this as extra/ modifications.
He went onto say things have really changed in the last few years regarding modifications/ (as they call it in insurance terms) Add ONs ...due to increase in claims.
If for some reason you had an accident and someone was killed,when the police do all their investigation any add on that was not approved could make it very difficult for you to have a claim accepted....He was also telling me that caravan claims have gone through the roof in the past two years.
The problem with yaw or "sway" particularly induced by the addition of weight to the rear of van, is, it might tow perfectly ok at 90 klm/hr then be a complete nightmare to tow at 95 klm/hr.
Counter balancing "might" help up & down movement, but will have no effect on yaw or "sway". If severe enough it could make it worse, by assisting to force the tug rear wheels sideways on the road.
I have had two checker plate containers placed on the rear bumper either side of the spare wheel. This was to ensure that the weight was balanced. Also made sure that I reinforced the bumper bar to the main bearers of van.
No issues towing on our 3000 klms trip thus far.
Jay&Dee
Gerty - apparently at least in NSW you must get a 'pink slip' RWC annually for vans over 5 years old. In Qld you must get a RWC when you sell a van. I'd hate to live in a state where you must get annual inspections done. My BIL just got one to transfer from NSW to QLD - cost $55 and the inspector didn't even inspect it except for a quick walk around, but I suppose it make the van 'legal'.
Regards
The MH I bought has boxes at the rear the previous owners stored generators in them.
-- Edited by barina on Monday 16th of September 2013 08:43:30 PM
-- Edited by barina on Monday 16th of September 2013 08:44:39 PM
-- Edited by barina on Monday 16th of September 2013 08:48:51 PM
You can get a roadworthy certificate in any state to comply with NSW requirements you will need your rego papers, which you then post back to the RTA with your pink slip and your payment The pink slip is only required after the van or car is over 5 years old
In the other states it is just harder to find a checking station they are there, as if you get a defect notice you must then get a roadworthy after the defect is fixed.
Cheers
David
In NSW the pink slip is a safety check, not a design check, unless its a truck and then those are done by the RTA themselves and they do a design check, I know of one bus operator that needs to show engineers reports every rego check.
For example I had someone bring in a old short wheel base land cruiser all hopped up with mods that made it into a monster truck, technically and by the book, it was safe, but that didn't stop the highway patrol defecting the vehicle 2 days later due to lack of engineers report on all of the modifications, the little punk got all legaled up (Daddy's money) and and made a formally complaint to the RTA, who after a 18 month investigation found we had done the right thing.
I think the yaw video is irrelevant in this debate as is the research and I believe it DOESN'T APPLY to this threads original post.
The reasons:
the yaw study video moved 50% of the weight to the rear of the model and induced greater instability,,, as expected.
This thread is about a box NO WHERE NEAR 50% OF THE WEIGHT OF THE CARAVAN,,, where say a 100Kg in box on a 3 ton ATM van is ONLY APPROX 3% OF THE WEIGHT. Further more the weight of the ORIGINAL VAN IS NOT MOVED only added to.
The engineers I've worked for previously would rip this arguement to bits. I'm not qualified to do the maths here for you but if we are going to compare apples with apples we need to take more care, IMHO.
Jaffa , not putting the box on the back is the right decision .
I know that WAY back on the 25th August you took the decision to NOT install a box on the back of the van, which I too think was a wise choice, but.....................
As a matter of interest, do you still follow this thread??