Hi I'am also looking at buying a 15 amp power lead I've gone through the techie stuff about what's required. I've just got a basic trailer no power. Never been camping on powered sites. What I need to know is, what length of cable would be good to get? I have read 15 to 20M's in length but that seems way too long. A simple silly question but I have to ask it.
Thanks
madaboutled said
07:47 PM Feb 2, 2017
12roam wrote:
Hi I'am also looking at buying a 15 amp power lead I've gone through the techie stuff about what's required. I've just got a basic trailer no power. Never been camping on powered sites. What I need to know is, what length of cable would be good to get? I have read 15 to 20M's in length but that seems way too long. A simple silly question but I have to ask it.
Thanks
Most power poles are shared by many sites, whilst most time this is central to the sites it supplies, there are times where it's not so central and you need the extra length. So, while 20mts is too long sometimes, you'll kick yourself when your a few meters short. Showground camping for instance is notorious for needing longer leads and I've been in a caravan park where even my 20mt leed was too short because the power box for initally allocated my site was "out of order" (Marble Bar W.A.)
12roam said
08:08 PM Feb 2, 2017
thanks madaboutled Then it's a 20mtr lead for me, then so be it.
Appreciated
John
PeterD said
11:41 PM Feb 2, 2017
I carry a 30 metre lead, it gets used occasionally in show grounds. ((I had it made up back in the days when 30m was the maximum length for 2.5 mm2 cable.)
12roam said
12:43 PM Feb 3, 2017
So what I will probably do is buy a 20m and 10m extension leads and join them with an extension Lead Safety Box when required. The 10m would be easier to use when that's all I require, If you can buy the safety boxes they must be legal.
Thanks guy's appreciated.
John
PeterD said
02:05 PM Feb 3, 2017
12roam wrote:
If you can buy the safety boxes they must be legal.
Just because something is approved that does not mean it is approved for everything it can be used for. Australian standard AS/NZS3001 specifically states that you must not join leads to supply mains power to mobile o portable homes (ie caravans.) That is why I carry a 30 m lead (and also an Amphibian.)
12roam said
03:23 PM Feb 3, 2017
If that's the law that's the law so be it I'm no safety expert a 30m it is. Must admit I fail to see why, I've read so many differing views in the last 24 hours it makes a guy's head spin.
30m cable to a 10 amp RCD power board. I'm presuming that's ok?
Regards
John
PeterD said
04:22 PM Feb 3, 2017
Well one reason is excessive voltage drop. The maximum length of leads is based on keeping voltage drops below 5%. The maximum length for 1.5 mm2 cable is 25 m. Your 10 m and 20 m cables will be manufactured with 1.5 mm2 cable thus making a 30 m cable of 1,5 mm2 cable where as a properly manufactured 30 m cable will be constructed with 2.5 mm2 cable.
12roam said
04:54 PM Feb 3, 2017
Yes Thank you Peter that does make sense. Thank you very much for your patience in explaining it too me.
Regards
John
oldtrack123 said
01:16 PM Feb 4, 2017
oldbloke wrote:
Plugs and extension sockets may be replaced by a non-electrically qualified person, provided the person has been trained, assessed and found to be competent to fit plugs and sockets according to the manufacturers instructions.
Yep, used to apply to appliances too. But not sure if that's still the case.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Thursday 2nd of February 2017 11:01:22 PM
All that means is that they have obtained a "limited license "to do that sort of work.[such as test & tag people ,plumbers to change hot water systems etc
And you should ask those people to SHOW the license BEFORE they do any such work!!!
It does not mean Joe blow can have a 5 Minute tutorial ,or a few lines on the iternet , & be let loose
oldtrack123 said
01:17 PM Feb 4, 2017
12roam wrote:
If that's the law that's the law so be it I'm no safety expert a 30m it is. Must admit I fail to see why, I've read so many differing views in the last 24 hours it makes a guy's head spin. 30m cable to a 10 amp RCD power board. I'm presuming that's ok?
Regards John
IF you have to ask, you are not qualified to work on it!!!
Correctly made extension leads SHALL meet the requirements of the STANDARDs AS/NZS 3191 ,3122 , 3199.
You should not have an extension lead feeding a power board If you are using ANY extension leads from the outlet sockets
That has the same effect as joining leads & means the total lead length could be too long for the cable sizes
[as per Peter D's post]
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 4th of February 2017 01:29:17 PM
madaboutled said
09:21 PM Feb 4, 2017
oldtrack123 wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Plugs and extension sockets may be replaced by a non-electrically qualified person, provided the person has been trained, assessed and found to be competent to fit plugs and sockets according to the manufacturers instructions.
Yep, used to apply to appliances too. But not sure if that's still the case.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Thursday 2nd of February 2017 11:01:22 PM
All that means is that they have obtained a "limited license "to do that sort of work.[such as test & tag people ,plumbers to change hot water systems etc
And you should ask those people to SHOW the license BEFORE they do any such work!!!
It does not mean Joe blow can have a 5 Minute tutorial ,or a few lines on the iternet , & be let loose
Replacing plugs and sockets by "test & tag" people requires the person to have successfully completed the separate plug-top course, there is no license, its a certificate. The applicable lead must then be tested and tagged after the replacement. The Tag must show that persons name and the number from their T&T certificate along with date tested and re-test date. I would say that most test and taggers would have a copy of their appropriate certificates on them when performing any work to avoid any conflicts with people who are not familiar with the regulations.
Because I'm not a quailfied electrician IF I perform any of this work I do it slowly and tripple check everything and then check it again whilst doing the Test & Tag component. Not trying to pick a fight here, but, an interesting point is that not all electricians are quailfied to "Test & Tag". BTW the Test and Tag and Plug Top Courses are far from a "5 minute tutorial", added to that our PAT Testing equipment has to be sent away to be calibrated every year.
Phil C said
10:22 AM Feb 5, 2017
Cant help myself, must chime in here..
When I was teaching test and tag in 2012, the only thing that was on the curriculum concerning plugs and sockets was recognition of correct and incorrect terminations (colour codes etc).
There may very well be a "course" and certificate for extension lead assembly (and about time), BUT how many drongos will rock up to Bunnings, buy a length of cheap, nasty, stiff cable, a plugtop and socket and sit at home read the instructions on the packages and do it safe and correct? Looking at the prices of these courses I would doubt most would bother to attend. My last test and tag the RTO charged students nearly $300 each for the day!
I recall having a discussion with a Bunnings manager as to why they sold TPS to anyone (as opposed to say L and H who ask for a licence) his reply was its there, they buy it, what happens after it leaves the shop is non of Bunnings concern.
My point is that while ever these items remain easy for anyone to purchase we will have electrical safety issues. I have a mate who works for the OTR (office of the technical regulator) in SA, he claims they and the govt are powerless to stop these sales as the legislation needs to change. I guess folks who think electrical is easy will fall on their bums one day, lets hope with only minor injury, enough to wake them up.
Cheers
12roam said
04:14 PM Feb 5, 2017
Well if what oldtrack123 say's is correct and I cannot plug in an RCD power board into a 15 amp lead, with the correct plugs, Not re-wiring anything, that leaves me just about with few options left.
Ok last shot before I bail altogether on this. I have no electrical sockets of any description on my trailer. It's just a basic model.
15amp power lead 30m no joins correct plugs, to an amphibian stepping down to 10 amp, going to an RCD power board. I want to be safe and correct, If anything has to be re-wired I'ts not me that will be doing it.
Regards
John
12roam said
06:38 PM Feb 5, 2017
Nope That will not work forget I said that. Thanks guy's I'll go see somebody, to get it set up so all I have to do is just plug in, my life will be a lot easier, though my pocket lighter.
Thanks guys
madaboutled said
07:16 PM Feb 5, 2017
12roam wrote:
Nope That will not work forget I said that. Thanks guy's I'll go see somebody, to get it set up so all I have to do is just plug in, my life will be a lot easier, though my pocket lighter.
Thanks guys
Don't be discouraged, just think of it from a safety prospective. Being a trailer/camper you probably don't need a 15 amp connection, you can plug a 10amp plug/lead into a 15 amp socket, just not the other way around and that's why the need for an Ampfibian.
You can get 10 amp socket fitted to your trailer along with the appropriate circuit breakers, RCD and a few outdoor type plug points etc... for that you'll need to see an electrician. A caravan repair place might be the best to talk to, they'll have an experienced sparky on their books that's used to dealing with caravans etc... Then get a heavy duty outdoor 10 amp lead.
The 15 amp connection is mainly to cater for devices like airconditioners. With your set-up I doubt you'd need anything longer than 20 meters. In 8 years of traveling I've probably only needed longer than 20mt on maybe 2 occassions and on those times it just meant moving sites... no biggy just a pain if you've already set up. So just test you've got power before you set up.
-- Edited by madaboutled on Sunday 5th of February 2017 07:19:50 PM
12roam said
07:29 PM Feb 5, 2017
Would be easier doing it that way, I just wanted something nice and simple, when I started looking last week.
Thanks I'll keep you posted on what I end up with.
John
oldbloke said
08:15 AM Feb 6, 2017
madaboutled wrote:
oldtrack123 wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Plugs and extension sockets may be replaced by a non-electrically qualified person, provided the person has been trained, assessed and found to be competent to fit plugs and sockets according to the manufacturers instructions.
Yep, used to apply to appliances too. But not sure if that's still the case.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Thursday 2nd of February 2017 11:01:22 PM
All that means is that they have obtained a "limited license "to do that sort of work.[such as test & tag people ,plumbers to change hot water systems etc
And you should ask those people to SHOW the license BEFORE they do any such work!!!
It does not mean Joe blow can have a 5 Minute tutorial ,or a few lines on the iternet , & be let loose
Replacing plugs and sockets by "test & tag" people requires the person to have successfully completed the separate plug-top course, there is no license, its a certificate. The applicable lead must then be tested and tagged after the replacement. The Tag must show that persons name and the number from their T&T certificate along with date tested and re-test date. I would say that most test and taggers would have a copy of their appropriate certificates on them when performing any work to avoid any conflicts with people who are not familiar with the regulations.
Because I'm not a quailfied electrician IF I perform any of this work I do it slowly and tripple check everything and then check it again whilst doing the Test & Tag component. Not trying to pick a fight here, but, an interesting point is that not all electricians are quailfied to "Test & Tag". BTW the Test and Tag and Plug Top Courses are far from a "5 minute tutorial", added to that our PAT Testing equipment has to be sent away to be calibrated every year.
Well said. Repairing a plug is not rocket science. That is why a tradesman is not mandatory. And I might add in all trades there are those that take short cuts.
I recently watched an electrician doing test and tag. I pulled him up when I saw he was not conducting an inspection not carrying out the electrical test. He was simply tagging only. I asked him to get his testing equipment but he said he didn't have it. When I suggested he use the mega in his tool box he was a bit pissed. You see some think you will let it slide and that they can con you.
If you have been trained appropriatly you can do the work, if you want that is.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Monday 6th of February 2017 08:18:49 AM
Jaahn said
09:14 AM Feb 6, 2017
Hi
My two cents worth !
The suggestion to get a long lead with 1.5mm sq wire and use a RCD unit with a 10 A current rating is sensible IMHO and covers the bases well. Use it with common sense. That is what I do. Actually I have a long and a shorter lead so I can use one or the other as necessary without joining.
I think the intention of some posters here may be good but the application of most regulations is dependent on a rational approach by rational people. If you do not fit this profile then do nothing yourself.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 7th of February 2017 08:54:53 AM
Hylife said
11:58 PM Feb 11, 2017
A) No it is NOT illegal to wire up your own extension leads. You do not need to be an electrician or licensed. They are not fixed/permanent wiring.
B) No it is NOT illegal to wire up a 10 amp plug to a 15 amp lead. 10 amp plugs fit into 15 amp sockets.
C) The reason for the slight colour changes are to cater to the surprisingly large amount of electricians who have no idea that they are colour blind. Colour blind people see red as brown and some shades of greens and blues and blacks can be difficult to distinguish from each other. So, make the active red as brown, make neutral black as blue and make the earth green with a yellow stripe.
iana said
09:17 AM Feb 12, 2017
Hylife, I used to go through this debate when I was working on fitness equipment, never had a license then. the answer to your (A) was you can do it yourself for your self, but not commercially.
I went back to the ware house where expensive pricing is only just the beginning, and found that all of their 15A leads which included 30A were 1.5mm2 ($24). But I also found some plugs and sockets that may fit my cable.
Looking on the net I see made up 15A with 2.5mm2 are available, but are between $100 and $200 each!
Considering my old cable is defiantly 2.5mm2, and still very flexible in all temperatures, I will check with our sparkie to see what he has to say about putting shrink tubing over the cut in the outer insulation, fitting new plug and socket (doing it myself) and getting it tested.
PeterD said
08:23 PM Feb 12, 2017
Hylife wrote:
B) No it is NOT illegal to wire up a 10 amp plug to a 15 amp lead. 10 amp plugs fit into 15 amp sockets.
That little gem is a little confusing. A 15 A lead is one with a 15 A socket on it. You are not permitted to wire a lead up with different connector on each end.
-- Edited by PeterD on Sunday 12th of February 2017 09:36:45 PM
oldtrack123 said
08:30 PM Feb 18, 2017
Hylife wrote:
A) No it is NOT illegal to wire up your own extension leads. You do not need to be an electrician or licensed. They are not fixed/permanent wiring.
B) No it is NOT illegal to wire up a 10 amp plug to a 15 amp lead. 10 amp plugs fit into 15 amp sockets.
C) The reason for the slight colour changes are to cater to the surprisingly large amount of electricians who have no idea that they are colour blind. Colour blind people see red as brown and some shades of greens and blues and blacks can be difficult to distinguish from each other. So, make the active red as brown, make neutral black as blue and make the earth green with a yellow stripe.
[A] What are your qualifications for making such a statement
If it is not a joint by plug & socket, iIT is "ELECTRICAL work or put another way, IF TOOLS are required to make or break the CONNECTION , IT IS ELECTRICAL work & WILL require some form of licence
Easily checked by anyone by contacting their State electrical regulators
[a]In most states IT IS illegal for a non approved or non certified person, to make any fixed wiring connection for low voltage use& that INCLUDES EXTENSION LEADS!!!
Perhaps read your STATES Electrical regulations carefully before making ill informed comments!!
That is very confusing ,simply because it is an incomplete statement!!!
A competent person will /should know what is approved for use
[1] A 10 Amp PLUG & socket can be fitted to any lead with a 10A or higher rating [provided it can be fitted to the plug with no problems.by a an approved person,. but it SHALL have the same current rated plug as socket
[2]As Peter D has stated the LEAD SHALL have the SAME RATED PLUG AS SOCKET
The cable size SHALL meet the requirements of the Standards for the plug rating & cable length
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 18th of February 2017 09:43:05 PM
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 18th of February 2017 09:47:34 PM
Cruising Cruze said
09:03 PM Feb 18, 2017
I can't understand that you can get any thing you want in the green shed or any other hardware shop
why don't they stop that so you only can get things done by an electrician
or is that to much to ask
Cheers John
oldtrack123 said
09:31 PM Feb 18, 2017
Cruising Cruze wrote:
I can't understand that you can get any thing you want in the green shed or any other hardware shop why don't they stop that so you only can get things done by an electrician
or is that to much to ask
Cheers John
Hi John
Has your Bunnings got a sign high up freeing them of any responsibility by saying such should be used by licensed people
ALL Qld ones do
Stores can sell anything as long as the items are approved.
Who & how they are used is not their responsability
Thanks
Most power poles are shared by many sites, whilst most time this is central to the sites it supplies, there are times where it's not so central and you need the extra length. So, while 20mts is too long sometimes, you'll kick yourself when your a few meters short. Showground camping for instance is notorious for needing longer leads and I've been in a caravan park where even my 20mt leed was too short because the power box for initally allocated my site was "out of order" (Marble Bar W.A.)
Appreciated
John
Thanks guy's appreciated.
John
Just because something is approved that does not mean it is approved for everything it can be used for. Australian standard AS/NZS3001 specifically states that you must not join leads to supply mains power to mobile o portable homes (ie caravans.) That is why I carry a 30 m lead (and also an Amphibian.)
30m cable to a 10 amp RCD power board. I'm presuming that's ok?
Regards
John
Regards
John
All that means is that they have obtained a "limited license "to do that sort of work.[such as test & tag people ,plumbers to change hot water systems etc
And you should ask those people to SHOW the license BEFORE they do any such work!!!
It does not mean Joe blow can have a 5 Minute tutorial ,or a few lines on the iternet , & be let loose
IF you have to ask, you are not qualified to work on it!!!
Correctly made extension leads SHALL meet the requirements of the STANDARDs AS/NZS 3191 ,3122 , 3199.
You should not have an extension lead feeding a power board If you are using ANY extension leads from the outlet sockets
That has the same effect as joining leads & means the total lead length could be too long for the cable sizes
[as per Peter D's post]
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 4th of February 2017 01:29:17 PM
Replacing plugs and sockets by "test & tag" people requires the person to have successfully completed the separate plug-top course, there is no license, its a certificate. The applicable lead must then be tested and tagged after the replacement. The Tag must show that persons name and the number from their T&T certificate along with date tested and re-test date. I would say that most test and taggers would have a copy of their appropriate certificates on them when performing any work to avoid any conflicts with people who are not familiar with the regulations.
Because I'm not a quailfied electrician IF I perform any of this work I do it slowly and tripple check everything and then check it again whilst doing the Test & Tag component. Not trying to pick a fight here, but, an interesting point is that not all electricians are quailfied to "Test & Tag". BTW the Test and Tag and Plug Top Courses are far from a "5 minute tutorial", added to that our PAT Testing equipment has to be sent away to be calibrated every year.
When I was teaching test and tag in 2012, the only thing that was on the curriculum concerning plugs and sockets was recognition of correct and incorrect terminations (colour codes etc).
There may very well be a "course" and certificate for extension lead assembly (and about time), BUT how many drongos will rock up to Bunnings, buy a length of cheap, nasty, stiff cable, a plugtop and socket and sit at home read the instructions on the packages and do it safe and correct? Looking at the prices of these courses I would doubt most would bother to attend. My last test and tag the RTO charged students nearly $300 each for the day!
I recall having a discussion with a Bunnings manager as to why they sold TPS to anyone (as opposed to say L and H who ask for a licence) his reply was its there, they buy it, what happens after it leaves the shop is non of Bunnings concern.
My point is that while ever these items remain easy for anyone to purchase we will have electrical safety issues. I have a mate who works for the OTR (office of the technical regulator) in SA, he claims they and the govt are powerless to stop these sales as the legislation needs to change. I guess folks who think electrical is easy will fall on their bums one day, lets hope with only minor injury, enough to wake them up.
Cheers
Ok last shot before I bail altogether on this. I have no electrical sockets of any description on my trailer. It's just a basic model.
15amp power lead 30m no joins correct plugs, to an amphibian stepping down to 10 amp, going to an RCD power board. I want to be safe and correct, If anything has to be re-wired I'ts not me that will be doing it.
Regards
John
Thanks guys
Don't be discouraged, just think of it from a safety prospective. Being a trailer/camper you probably don't need a 15 amp connection, you can plug a 10amp plug/lead into a 15 amp socket, just not the other way around and that's why the need for an Ampfibian.
You can get 10 amp socket fitted to your trailer along with the appropriate circuit breakers, RCD and a few outdoor type plug points etc... for that you'll need to see an electrician. A caravan repair place might be the best to talk to, they'll have an experienced sparky on their books that's used to dealing with caravans etc... Then get a heavy duty outdoor 10 amp lead.
The 15 amp connection is mainly to cater for devices like airconditioners. With your set-up I doubt you'd need anything longer than 20 meters. In 8 years of traveling I've probably only needed longer than 20mt on maybe 2 occassions and on those times it just meant moving sites... no biggy just a pain if you've already set up. So just test you've got power before you set up.
-- Edited by madaboutled on Sunday 5th of February 2017 07:19:50 PM
Thanks I'll keep you posted on what I end up with.
John
Well said. Repairing a plug is not rocket science. That is why a tradesman is not mandatory. And I might add in all trades there are those that take short cuts.
I recently watched an electrician doing test and tag. I pulled him up when I saw he was not conducting an inspection not carrying out the electrical test. He was simply tagging only. I asked him to get his testing equipment but he said he didn't have it. When I suggested he use the mega in his tool box he was a bit pissed. You see some think you will let it slide and that they can con you.
If you have been trained appropriatly you can do the work, if you want that is.
-- Edited by oldbloke on Monday 6th of February 2017 08:18:49 AM
Hi
My two cents worth !
The suggestion to get a long lead with 1.5mm sq wire and use a RCD unit with a 10 A current rating is sensible IMHO and covers the bases well. Use it with common sense.
That is what I do. Actually I have a long and a shorter lead so I can use one or the other as necessary without joining.
I think the intention of some posters here may be good but the application of most regulations is dependent on a rational approach by rational people. If you do not fit this profile then do nothing yourself.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 7th of February 2017 08:54:53 AM
A) No it is NOT illegal to wire up your own extension leads. You do not need to be an electrician or licensed. They are not fixed/permanent wiring.
B) No it is NOT illegal to wire up a 10 amp plug to a 15 amp lead. 10 amp plugs fit into 15 amp sockets.
C) The reason for the slight colour changes are to cater to the surprisingly large amount of electricians who have no idea that they are colour blind.
Colour blind people see red as brown and some shades of greens and blues and blacks can be difficult to distinguish from each other.
So, make the active red as brown, make neutral black as blue and make the earth green with a yellow stripe.
I went back to the ware house where expensive pricing is only just the beginning, and found that all of their 15A leads which included 30A were 1.5mm2 ($24). But I also found some plugs and sockets that may fit my cable.
Looking on the net I see made up 15A with 2.5mm2 are available, but are between $100 and $200 each!
Considering my old cable is defiantly 2.5mm2, and still very flexible in all temperatures, I will check with our sparkie to see what he has to say about putting shrink tubing over the cut in the outer insulation, fitting new plug and socket (doing it myself) and getting it tested.
That little gem is a little confusing. A 15 A lead is one with a 15 A socket on it. You are not permitted to wire a lead up with different connector on each end.
-- Edited by PeterD on Sunday 12th of February 2017 09:36:45 PM
[A] What are your qualifications for making such a statement
If it is not a joint by plug & socket, iIT is "ELECTRICAL work or put another way, IF TOOLS are required to make or break the CONNECTION , IT IS ELECTRICAL work & WILL require some form of licence
Easily checked by anyone by contacting their State electrical regulators
[a]In most states IT IS illegal for a non approved or non certified person, to make any fixed wiring connection for low voltage use& that INCLUDES EXTENSION LEADS!!!
Perhaps read your STATES Electrical regulations carefully before making ill informed comments!!
That is very confusing ,simply because it is an incomplete statement!!!
A competent person will /should know what is approved for use
[1] A 10 Amp PLUG & socket can be fitted to any lead with a 10A or higher rating [provided it can be fitted to the plug with no problems.by a an approved person,. but it SHALL have the same current rated plug as socket
[2]As Peter D has stated the LEAD SHALL have the SAME RATED PLUG AS SOCKET
The cable size SHALL meet the requirements of the Standards for the plug rating & cable length
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 18th of February 2017 09:43:05 PM
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 18th of February 2017 09:47:34 PM
why don't they stop that so you only can get things done by an electrician
or is that to much to ask
Cheers John
Hi John
Has your Bunnings got a sign high up freeing them of any responsibility by saying such should be used by licensed people
ALL Qld ones do
Stores can sell anything as long as the items are approved.
Who & how they are used is not their responsability