bentaxlebabe wrote:

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Unfortunately Yobbarr your contributions to the subject of weights need to be seriously considered before anyone on here even takes your comments as from someone who has authority or dare I say it...Qualifications to back up your outrageous comments.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to point out which of my "outrageous comments" are anything but indesputable fact?

Really why dont you let your comments go and allow other people to contribute with constructive comments and once you have made your point then ....really mate...for the sake of the members on here... just let it go...

Surely it would be remiss of me to leave unchallenged the misinformation that sometimes is posted by no doubt well-meaning members?Or do you think that it is fair and reasonable to allow others to be mislead by these mistruths,possibly putting themselves,and others,in danger?   7100kg DMax weight on wheels? Yeah,right.

You have highlited in red all your attacks but let us see your Qualifications and / or the approval from your vehicle modification approvals.

Nothing I have ever posted is anything but common sense and simple physics.One does not need to be a meteorologist to know that it is raining? I iterate....basic physics,and common sense,but unfortunately common sense is perhaps not common?     (And NO red!)  

I challenge this... show us all where you are coming from...or just maybe let the forum talk without your one sided input..
And lets not do this in red..

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 21st of September 2019 07:18:10 PM

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bentaxlebabe wrote:

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It is slowly but surely becoming obvious to many that genuine informative facts are just out of control bombastic comments that have no real backing. So we all may assume that the gun caravanner has no legal approval...

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 21st of September 2019 08:20:47 PM

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The colour is not really the issue but to say the least, it is annoying

Wow .... many others on here and other forums can actually produce accurate and honest documentation...

Maybe the mods on your ute are not actually approved .....well what shock and horror from such an authority on the subject..

Shoulda gone to ......Lovells or at the very least....Specsavers     

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 21st of September 2019 08:31:04 PM

bentaxlebabe wrote:

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bentaxlebabe wrote:

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It is slowly but surely becoming obvious to many that genuine informative facts are just out of control bombastic comments that have no real backing. So we all may assume that the gun caravanner has no legal approval...

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 21st of September 2019 08:20:47 PM

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 The colour is not really the issue but to say the least, it is annoying

Wow .... many others on here and other forums can actually produce accurate and honest documentation...

Maybe the mods on your ute are not actually approved .....well what shock and horror from such an authority on the subject..

Shoulda gone to ......Lovells or at the very least....Specsavers     

Regards.Rob

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Having dealt with Lovells,I can tell you fir free that they rely solely on their name.Carroll Springs are streets ahead,and significantly cheaper.    

 But then again,there are people who seem to think that Mick Donalds is  food? Cheers                              .       

yobarr wrote:

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bentaxlebabe wrote:

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bentaxlebabe wrote:

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It is slowly but surely becoming obvious to many that genuine informative facts are just out of control bombastic comments that have no real backing. So we all may assume that the gun caravanner has no legal approval...

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 21st of September 2019 08:20:47 PM

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 The colour is not really the issue but to say the least, it is annoying

Wow .... many others on here and other forums can actually produce accurate and honest documentation...

Maybe the mods on your ute are not actually approved .....well what shock and horror from such an authority on the subject..

Shoulda gone to ......Lovells or at the very least....Specsavers     

Regards.Rob

---

Having dealt with Lovells,I can tell you fir free that they rely solely on their name.Carroll Springs are streets ahead,and significantly cheaper.    

 But then again,there are people who seem to think that Mick Donalds is  food? Cheers                              .       

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 I think yobaar that in another world you may be entertaining but for the sake of the exercise on this topic, which you have been, once again, so very vocal, then produce the approval for the mods to GVM etc on your vehicle or forever hold your peace or your piece as the case may be.  

Just show us all your documentation on your vehicle or at the very least your qualifications on engineering which will show all the APPROVED SECONDARY MANUFACTURERS (2) wrong in their work

Regards

Rob

blaze wrote:

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the strange thing is yobarr, I mostly agree with you but strongly disagree with the method you use to try and convey the message. There is no need to continually state that something is a fact, often in bold, italic or some other method, like red print. Nothing gets up my goat more. 

cheers
blaze

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 Two words come to mind, condescending & belittling.  

A statement is merely an opinion unless it is backed up by some reference to legislation or law, then one can say it's a fact.

I can't recall Yobar providing any reference to back up his opinions.

Cheers Pete

travelyounger wrote:

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In previous posts I had Carrolls suspension fitted to my Dmax they are as good as Lovells but half the price of Lovells and a bit more but no upgrade unless you go to an indeppant engineer in nsw vic or Qld and that would only be on your gvm.If you want a full gvm on your vehicle or gcm do not go to Carrolls as they are not certified to give an upgrade pre 2018 but may have changed since .Only Ironman pedders Lovells and maybe some other companys have kits available as second manufacture on gvm. That is why they charge up to )6000 or more to get compliance.Only Lovells have gvm and gcm on certain vehicles in nsw vic and now sa .Dont waste your hard earned on cheaper brands of suspension unless you dont want the gvm upgrade to carry that extra weight and legal with all the extras you add when you purchase your vehicle

Where on earth did you get that "information"? You are right about prices though,as Carrolls did a full GVM upgrade for me,complete with compliance plate,for literally half the price that Lovells quoted.Cheers

I would like to know how you acheived that with carrolls

travelyounger wrote:

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I would like to know how you acheived that with carrolls

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 Very simple...after I had been to Lovells,I wandered in to Carrolls and showed what I wanted done.A few days later they did the work,including a 2" lift,and I am now run an actual....not imaginary.....6800kg GCM,legal on all axles.Front axle is 1350kg,rear axle is 2300kg and vans axle group carries 3150kg.And no WDH either! All legal,all safe.Cheers

Okay that's good that you got that with Carroll's but I had no chance in getting a gcm with them which Carroll's and how long ago did you get your unimaginary upgrade

So lets get this in perspective.

You have a vehicle that has been modified by an unauthorised Secondary Manufacturer with regard to a GVM increase.

You are towing your van and you are directed to a weighbridge by the authorities and when you are over the weight specified by your vehicle manufacturer you inform the officer that although the modifications were done by an unauthorised Secondary Manufacturer a mate in a backyard said that you would be fine.

The person in authority states that you are over the allowable weight as specified from the original manufacturer and therefore breaking the law. 

Where do you go from there?

I will add that with an APPROVED SECONDARY REPAIRER you will have been given necessary documentation, your vehicle would have been inspected by a qualified engineer and the new work approved and you would have a compliance plate fitted stating the new allowable weights and I do believe that it is a requirement that you carry in the vehicle all the documentation relating to the upgrade including revised registration papers.

I, for one are a just a little confused particularly as you have stated this...

Regards Rob

bentaxlebabe wrote:

  .......and you would have a compliance plate fitted stating the new allowable weights and I do believe that it is a requirement that you carry in the vehicle all the documentation relating to the upgrade including revised registration papers.....

 Once again,you have confirmed that you do not actually read posts,but merely glance at them and cherry-pick something to dispute.I ask you you refer to the post that I made at 6.14am today.

Actually I did note what you stated at 6.14 am today and I certainly do not cherry pick as you put it.

The reason for my post immediately above stating from you yesterday that you in fact, could not supply a picture of the compliance plate or registration up grade.

Now, in previous topics I noted YOU belittled other members on here even after some had, in fact, photographed their compliance details and posted it into the topic for all of us to see.

Anyway I will leave the pictures to you, the members will judge for themselves, but in the case of cherry picking, YOU really need to have a close look on how you conduct yourself each and every time a subject comes up on vehicles and weights.

As I have tried to explain above, the reason for my topic was not to say that one Manufacturer is better than another but more to offer the opportunity for any interested members to be able to communicate with an APPROVED Second Manufacturer with questions relating to upgrades.

Not all people are loaded to maximum, not all people need a weight upgrade, so, in defence of you wanting to include your preferred Secondary Manufacturer all you really needed to say was something along these lines

I used XYZ company and found them to be blah blah blah etc, etc. 

This would be enough to give people the opportunity to make a decision for themselves. Your constant attack on anyone who has a differing view or a differing vehicle requirement, or even just someone offering accurate information is nothing more than disrespect on your part.

Regards

Rob

bentaxlebabe wrote:

Actually I did note what you stated at 6.14 am today and I certainly do not cherry pick as you put it.

The reason for my post immediately above stating from you yesterday that you in fact, could not supply a picture of the compliance plate or registration up grade.

Now, in previous topics I noted YOU belittled other members on here even after some had, in fact, photographed their compliance details and posted it into the topic for all of us to see.

Anyway I will leave the pictures to you, the members will judge for themselves, but in the case of cherry picking, YOU really need to have a close look on how you conduct yourself each and every time a subject comes up on vehicles and weights.

As I have tried to explain above, the reason for my topic was not to say that one Manufacturer is better than another but more to offer the opportunity for any interested members to be able to communicate with an APPROVED Second Manufacturer with questions relating to upgrades.

Not all people are loaded to maximum, not all people need a weight upgrade, so, in defence of you wanting to include your preferred Secondary Manufacturer all you really needed to say was something along these lines

I used XYZ company and found them to be blah blah blah etc, etc. 

This would be enough to give people the opportunity to make a decision for themselves. Your constant attack on anyone who has a differing view or a differing vehicle requirement, or even just someone offering accurate information is nothing more than disrespect on your part.

Regards.Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Monday 23rd of September 2019 10:43:05 AM

Hi Babe....you just don't get it,do you? Again I will ask you to show where I have attacked anybody who  "....even  just someone offering different accurate information...." as all I ever do is correct misinformation posted,and offer solutions.There is little doubt that members honestly believe to be true what they have written,which doesn't bother me too much,as often these members have received bad advice from people with a vested interest.What does concern me is that other unsuspecting readers are likely to act on these mistruths,and unwittingly find themselves overloaded,unsafe and uninsured.Always my intentions are good,and if,in presenting the truth,I upset a few sensitive souls,so be it.You cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs,but always I have a clear conscience that my information is indeed accurate.Can that be a bad thing? Cheers.      

 P.S You will perhaps note that,to minimise pain and suffering,I have not included the word "fact" anywhere in this post?)

travelyounger wrote:

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To Yobar If you have not got your revised gvm on your rego papers or a compliance plate on your vehicle stating your new gcm and seperate papers to carry in vehicle for gcm upgrade you are just making a mockery of the whole topic.If you do not have these in place you are the one who is not insured and as far as Carrolls springs giving a gcm upgrade I would like to see some proof and then maybe I could believe in some of your previous posts cheers

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 Did you not read the post that I made today at 6.14am?

travelyounger wrote:

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To Yobar Yes I did read your message I am just curious how you got a gvm and gcm through Carrolls . When I enquired in nsw and Qld where I put there suspension on my new car they would not give an upgrade on gvm let alone gcm Cheers

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 Hi travelyounger,

It is a shame that the person who is pushing this barrow will not post any documentation or ID plate at all with direct relation to the upgraded specifications on his own vehicle. As it has been stated it is law that you must carry this information in the vehicle.

I am afraid that this topic will go the way of the last one he contributed in.

Anyway, thanks to Rob Driver bentaxlebabe for posting the original link, it prompted me to contact Lovells to have a query answered.

I do think that most people reading this will see the continuous attempt at deception, as without proof of legal documentation, there is really no backbone in much of his comments.

travelyounger wrote:

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To Yobar Yes I did read your message I am just curious how you got a gvm and gcm through Carrolls . When I enquired in nsw and Qld where I put there suspension on my new car they would not give an upgrade on gvm let alone gcm Cheers

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 OK,I'll explain.Because cars such as mine are very strongly built ex-factory,with lots of tolerance in their ratings,both weight and power wise,getting a GVM upgrade is a relatively straight forward process.Rear axle capacity is 2300kg ex-factory,and GCM is 6800kg anyway,so no change there,but the increased GVM of the car makes it possible to actually reach that GCM figure, something which cannot be done on cars such as yours,and most similar models.Because of these high ratings,I do not lose the towball weight,and can legally and safely run at 6800kg GCM,with 1350kg front,2300kg rear and 3150kg GTM.The car is thus around 16% heavier than the van,well beyond the 10% figure considered acceptable by those with any real understanding of weights.You can't get within a country mile of your own GCM rating,with 6590kg about the end of the story.Perhaps Carrolls understand the limitations of other models,and choose to upgrade only cars such as mine? Who knows? But you can rest assured that I have all the necessary documentation,and a pretty blue compliance plate,allowing me 6800kg GCM.I also have over 200kw,with maximum torque from 1200rpm to 3200km,so seldom have to change gears on the open road.Rides a bit rough,and I couldnt care less,but it will take me anywhere I choose to venture.If I choose to drop the van,I still have 190 watts Solar and 190 litres of water with me,for the areas where a van cannot be towed.Cheers

Iva Biggen wrote:

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travelyounger wrote:

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To Yobar Yes I did read your message I am just curious how you got a gvm and gcm through Carrolls . When I enquired in nsw and Qld where I put there suspension on my new car they would not give an upgrade on gvm let alone gcm Cheers

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 Hi travelyounger,                                                                                                                                            It is a shame that the person who is pushing this barrow will not post any documentation or ID plate at all with direct relation to the upgraded specifications on his own vehicle. As it has been stated it is law that you must carry this information in the vehicle.I am afraid that this topic will go the way of the last one he contributed in.Anyway, thanks to Rob Driver bentaxlebabe for posting the original link, it prompted me to contact Lovells to have a query answered.I do think that most people reading this will see the continuous attempt at deception, as without proof of legal documentation, there is really no backbone in much of his comments.

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 Welcome back Ivan! You have been conspicuous by your absence after all your outrageous assertions regarding a 7100kg GCM DMax upgrade by Lovells were shown by Boab (?) to be nothing but hot air.Because I know what I'm talking about,your insults were suitably ignored.As far as my compliance paperwork and compliance plate are concerned,I am not at all computer-literate, and I do not know how to post a photo? You are,however,most welcome to inspect my car whenever you are in the Brisbane area. I might even find a beer for you,since I don't hold grudges! Cheers

Yes Ivan
I asked that earlier on
We are all waiting with baited breath...pardon the pun

Regards

Rob

Iva Biggen wrote:

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Yobarr
I know this was asked by another member but what do you show a weights and measures officer when if you are weighed for legal compliance and you are exceeding the manufacturers specifications.

There is an old saying with fishermen is that if there is no pics then you didnt catch it.

Pics please....

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Ivan,you may well have been composing this post while I was posting mine,so you may not have seen what I wrote in explanation.However,the person who posted after you had adequate time to study that post,but,as usual,seems to have missed the content in his eagerness to again make a 'nothing' comment.And I wonder,how does one bait' ones breath?Cheers

Hopefully this will clear things up a bit;

In the case of the 79 series double cab Workmate the manufactures ratings are;

front axle - 1480

rear axle - 2300

GVM - 3300

GCM - 6800

Max towing - 3500

The most common GVM upgrade involves upgrading to the sum of the two axle ratings, in the case of this vehicle 3780, and it would not be hard to get an engineer to sign off on it (a reputable company such as Carrolls would most certainly have engaged the services of an engineer to certify). 

So in yobarr's case I would assume that his GVM is now 3780, nothing else has changed from factory and the sums add up, i.e. he is under GVM and right on GCM 

The engineering issue becomes more of a problem for anyone undertaking an upgrade where the manufacturers axle ratings are exceeded as the level of engineering justification required increases almost exponentially and to that end Lovells have undertaken significant engineering analysis and component testing

In the case of the utes (such as my Ranger and the DMax) the following are extracts from documentation provided to me by Lovells last week

- Ford Ranger PX1 & PX2 4x4 to 3500kg. (Original GVM is 3200kg).- GCM=7000kg (minus ball weight of towed apparatus)

- Isuzu D Max 4x4 06/12 on to 3600kg (Original GVM of 2950kg)- GCM=7000kg (minus ball weight of towed apparatus)

So it can be seen that there is no way a loaded combination using either of the above vehicles could weigh 7000kg, and in fact that is exacerbated by the the inability to achieve GVM while towing due to inability to get sufficient load on the front axle.  This is a problem for me with my 5th wheeler, even worse with a pig trailer such as a conventional caravan

River Rat wrote:

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Hopefully this will clear things up a bit;

In the case of the 79 series double cab Workmate the manufactures ratings are;                                              front axle - 1480.                                                                                                                                        rear axle - 2300.                                                                                                                                         GVM - 3300.                                                                                                                                              GCM - 3800.  ............actually 6800kg,but obviously a typo by you.                                                                           .                                                    Max towing - 3500

 The most common GVM upgrade involves upgrading to the sum of the two axle ratings, in the case of this vehicle 3780, and it would not be hard to get an engineer to sign off on it (a reputable company such as Carrolls would most certainly have engaged the services of an engineer to certify).                                                                   So in yobarr's case I would assume that his GVM is now 3780, nothing else has changed from factory and the sums add up, i.e. he is under GVM and right on GCM                                                                                      The engineering issue becomes more of a problem for anyone undertaking an upgrade where the manufacturers axle ratings are exceeded as the level of engineering justification required increases almost exponentially and to that end Lovells have undertaken significant engineering analysis and component testing

In the case of the utes (such as my Ranger and the DMax) the following are extracts from documentation provided to me by Lovells last week

- Ford Ranger PX1 & PX2 4x4 to 3500kg. (Original GVM is 3200kg).- GCM=7000kg (minus ball weight of towed apparatus)

- Isuzu D Max 4x4 06/12 on to 3600kg (Original GVM of 2950kg)- GCM=7000kg (minus ball weight of towed apparatus).                                                                                                                                                  So it can be seen that there is no way a loaded combination using either of the above vehicles could weigh 7000kg, and in fact that is exacerbated by the the inability to achieve GVM while towing due to inability to get sufficient load on the front axle.  This is a problem for me with my 5th wheeler, even worse with a pig trailer such as a conventional caravan

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 Hallelujah!...... River Rat,welcome to the small group of people on the forum who actually understand weights! Well done,and thankyou for your contribution. With a little bit of luck,this may bring a bit of understanding to those who continually argue about things they don't understand,and flatly refuse to learn.Not knowing stuff is acceptable....we all have to learn.....but to consistently and persistently argue with those of us who do know, is a little frustrating.Your figures are all right on the money (except GCM,which I know was a typo) and I sincerely hope that this helps others.Maximum front axle load on Ranger and DMax,with 350kg towball weight,is 1290kg,so maximum weight on wheels is 6590kg.....end of story.Mind you,if you start off with  the right car,it is very easy to raise your GVM.Thanks again for this invaluable post.Cheers

travelyounger wrote:

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To Yobar I will send you the pretty blue plate and docs of upgrade of The imaginary upgrade by pm only next week as I am not with the vehicle at presant and from mid October will have access to private calibrated weighbridge so then we will find out were we stand on our axle and weights with the new van Cheers

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 Not again! Do you not recall the post by Boab (?) who spoke to Lovells,on your behalf,about your car? He was told,by the NSW state manager, that Lovells DO NOT do a 7100kg GCM upgrade on a DMax,and Lovells asked that you contact them with a view to amending your plate,if indeed it does read 7100kg.Please understand that simply adding your 3600kg GVM and your 3500kg towing capacity together does NOT give you your GCM.If I did that,I would be legal,on paper,at 7280kg! The Lovells  state manager also confirmed that maximum weight on wheels is 6650kg,assuming 10% towball weight.In reality,that figure is not achievable either,because 350kg towball weight takes around 160kg off your front axle,giving figures of 1290kg front,2150kg rear and 3150kg GTM for all-up weight of 6590kg. A WDH will NOT fix this. I never have said the upgrade capacity is imaginary,only that reaching it (with a PIG trailer) is imaginary.....please refer to the sentence above for clarification.Again I will say that I am happy to help you with your weights when you tow your new van,if you wish.Cheers

LOL :), yep GCM should be 6800, fumble fingers ............now corrected

"travelyounger wrote:

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In reality who uses a 350 kg towball weight anyway even if your van weighs 3500 tonne you would have to have rocks in your head to put that on any 3500 tonne tow vehicle even the great 79 series as I have seen a few of them with the towbar dragging the ground last van had a 250 towball weight 2800 gvm that was heavy enough even with a travelmate.I wonder how many people out there actually know there tb weight compared to there gvm of van if anyone wants to put it out there on discussion as it would be interesting to know Cheers

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"Seen a few of them with the towbar dragging the ground" Hard to believe,given the heavy duty springs on the 2300kg axle,with a payload of over 1200kg.Strange,as with a 350kg towball weight,my car is level,and the  tray is 890mm off the ground.Van has 690mm clearance at the front,and 690mm at the rear. My DO35 shank is 620mm above the deck.Another thing that confuses me is that,in a previous life,you said that you had a van with a GTM....yes,GTM....of 3500kg behind your 3600kg GVM DMax,thus reaching your 7100kg GCM! (Heaven forbid!)What happened to that van? Cheers