I just out of interest did a "SEARCH" for how many times this Subject has been discussed on Grey Nomads over the years. Using, 10 amp,15 amp, Amphibian, keywords. I came up with 10 threads Some of them going to many pages, and two of them had been locked. I wonder if there are more.
The same old Debate and sometimes "very heated" debate.
I just made my own conversion plug all you need is a 10 amp male plug and a 15 amp female plug and wire them together on a short piece of cable. it is legal and quite safe as long as you do not try to interfere with your house cut out fuse. Unless you are using your air conditioning you will be using less than ten amps
That is illegal and dangerous!!
That's a SHOCKING thing to say.....
It's only illegal if you get caught by the POWER people.
Don't blow a FUSE over it Bush walker.....lol
Cheers Bob
TheHeaths said
05:04 PM Dec 12, 2019
I cannot believe that this conversation continues to come up.
I also cannot believe, whether illegal or not, that people who have Caravans/Motorhomes that cost from several thousand to many hundreds of thousands of dollars are willing to risk that with a home made cable, to in all likelihood save marginally over $100 when they buy all the bits to bodgy up something!
I hope they don't do the same when they service the brakes on their vehicles!
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 13th of December 2019 07:05:32 AM
bgt said
06:02 PM Dec 12, 2019
Something to keep in mind. Under the AS/NZ 3001:2010 (Transportable structures and vehicles) there are some variations to what some folk may think applies to RVs. It's years since I was involved so don't ask me for specific examples. But I wouldn't go betting the farm on anything without full knowledge of the relevant standards. (FWIW I've be through this debate before. Including a number of legal opinions). Just saying!!
I just made my own conversion plug all you need is a 10 amp male plug and a 15 amp female plug and wire them together on a short piece of cable. it is legal and quite safe as long as you do not try to interfere with your house cut out fuse. Unless you are using your air conditioning you will be using less than ten amps
Totally Illegal, & you have Illegally carried out electrical work..
Obviously have no idea of the electrical regulations / Standards
Not so smart!
oldtrack123 said
07:49 PM Dec 12, 2019
Bush walker wrote:
It is quite amazing the people than have no comprehension of what a fuse box actually does
If the power usage exceeds what the electrical line fused at the fuse will automatically cut the power in less than 100th of a second
which will prevent any damage or risk of fire
It is illegal to interfere with with the fuse rating by attempting to replace the fuse with a heavier one
[a]It is NOT illegal to use a conversion plug
Many people use power boards and they can plug many electrical appliances into these Should the power used exceed 10amps the fuse in the house fuse box will shut the power off safely preventing and fires or damage to the electrical system
[c]I hope that will clarify matters concerning the use of conversion plugs
What Electrical qualifications do you have??
You obviously have no idea of the Electrical reguations&/or Standards
Such an adaptor is definitely not approved for use anywhere in Australia, under any conditions!
[a]
It is totally illegal to have or use such a device under any circumstances
[bYour reference to 10A fuse on power circuits again indicates you are far from qualified to make up or suggest such anything on electrical matters
For many many years, a 15A OLCB has been the norm on powerpoint circuits in domestic situations as the minimum cable used is 15A rated
[c] I certainly hope my & other posts giving the same advice, clarifies the real facts & indicates people should never believe all they read on the internet.
Thebowdos said
09:42 PM Dec 12, 2019
2.5mm2 twin and earth cable, the standard for power point circuits in Australia has a current rating of 20amps (if installed appropriately)and is protected by a circuit breaker or HRC fuse. If protected by a rewireable fuse its 16amps
A 15amp GPO (the one everybody gets excited about) will also be wired using the same size cable (2.5mm2) and also most likely protected by a 20amp circuit breaker.
Back to the keyboard warriors
Whenarewethere said
09:57 PM Dec 12, 2019
I can't see how that has any bearing on the illegal 10amp bit between the outlet & the extention lead.
oldtrack123 said
10:17 PM Dec 12, 2019
Thebowdos wrote:
2.5mm2 twin and earth cable, the standard for power point circuits in Australia has a current rating of 20amps (if installed appropriately)and is protected by a circuit breaker or HRC fuse. If protected by a rewireable fuse its 16amps
A 15amp GPO (the one everybody gets excited about) will also be wired using the same size cable (2.5mm2) and also most likely protected by a 20amp circuit breaker.
Back to the keyboard warriors
What has that got to do with a van fitted with a 15A inlet socket [ 15A continuous rating] ?
Of course, the cable size allows 20A & it would be ridiculous to have a lower rated fuse with multiple10 outlets on the line as in houses [diversity factor]
Back to you,key board warrior, have a read of AS/NZS 3001 [Transportable structures & their power supplies]
I do hope you do not consider you are fully conversant with the difference between house wiring & "Transportable Structures"
oldtrack123 said
10:23 PM Dec 12, 2019
Whenarewethere wrote:
I can't see how that has any bearing on the illegal 10amp bit between the outlet & the extention lead.
I do not think that was his point
Obviously an electrician with limited experience
Sad that anyone with basic understanding of the Standards cannot see there is a difference between a house or other fixed installation & Transportable Structures
One reason why I always say "Ensure your electrician working on your van is fully conversant withAS/NZS 3001"
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Thursday 12th of December 2019 10:27:38 PM
Corndoggy said
10:58 PM Dec 12, 2019
I see leads like this all the time on building sites. 240v 10a plug to 15a socket, even 415v 20a plug to 32a socket. Even made from orange circular building wire. All made by a qualified sparky, tested and tagged ,all ready to go and all legal, even recorded in a log book. Well that's according to the owner of the leads, and who is the manufacturer of the leads. Even when told and shown the relavent clauses that cover these things some owners still insist they are all above board and I don't know what I'm talking about and just want to be a pain in his arse. And thing is some will take them away and still try to get away with using them. In saying that have still seen plugs wired wrong that have been done by qualified sparkles.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Thursday 12th of December 2019 11:01:06 PM
oldtrack123 said
01:32 AM Dec 13, 2019
Corndoggy wrote:
Bush Walker, can you tell us your qualifications in the electrical industry.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Thursday 12th of December 2019 12:05:19 AM
He obviously has none or has an exceptionally poor understanding of Electrical standards, Rules & Regulations! But I suspect he does not understand it is plug & socket combination that limits the load that can be put on the combination. IF they are the correct size for the purpose. based on either continuous current or diversity factor determined by the maker & the fitting of an appropriate plug.
Just an example.
A small 240v stick welding machine110A output can draw around 20A+ plus but that is at short intervals[low duty cycle] but is factory fitted with a 15A plug.The makers have satisfied the authorities that in normal use that is the equivalent max continuous current.. from the over heating point of view for both plug, socket, &wiring.
Armchair expert perhaps ???
There are many fully approved products on the market
Just be aware that any used with a Transportable Structure /van etc must comply with the Standards for weather proofing, prevention of accidental partial or full pull out of the lead from sockets[Requires an approved means of retention.]
That rules out the more common Clipsal portable multi-outlet power boxes & similar types.[outlet boxes complying to AS3105. Shall not be used as outlet boxes[ Cl4.4 Outlet boxes]
montie said
06:57 AM Dec 13, 2019
Peter,
Everything you say as always is absolutely correct.
We have had this discussion numerous times but some people just want to be told only what they want to hear!
Everything you say as always is absolutely correct.
We have had this discussion numerous times but some people just want to be told only what they want to hear!
Have a happy, healthy and safe Christmas.
Thanks, Montie & may you also have a merry xmas & happy prosperous new year
Same to all my keyboard friends & foes
oldtrack123 said
12:18 PM Dec 13, 2019
Whenarewethere wrote:
Untidy work!
Unbelievable !!!, tell us more about it, where you found it Etc
Not just untidy, but downright stupid!!
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 13th of December 2019 12:20:51 PM
Whenarewethere said
01:37 PM Dec 13, 2019
I probably saw it in the Jokes thread but have seen it on the internet.
As someone pointed it out in this thread one has $100k or more of assets & are you really going to risk safety & not getting an insurance payout over a few dollars!
KevinJ said
01:42 PM Dec 13, 2019
Corndoggy said
03:01 PM Dec 13, 2019
Oldtrack, just wanted Bush Walker to tells that he has got NO electrical qualifications, the we can all rip into him. Your right he has no idea at all. I'll bet that this is not the only electrical thing that he has done. Thinking is why get someone to do it if I can myself, and why spend money when I can do it myself. If that's not a big enough problem, he then goes and tell everyone it is all safe and conforms, must be cause I done it. This subject has been covered many times over forums and in every one you see some goose giving out very inaccurate information. The thinking is also, no one is going to know or notice it. You just can't educate some people and some people don't want to be educated.
yobarr said
03:57 PM Dec 13, 2019
oldtrack123 wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
Untidy work!
Unbelievable !!!, tell us more about it, where you found it Etc
Not just untidy, but downright stupid!!
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 13th of December 2019 12:20:51 PM
OK
I have had a 1 meter lead with 10 amp one end and 15 amp other end to connect to my motor home to the house for the last 5 years - no problem and I know it is illegal.
BUT today after reading this subject many times now and before,I went to the green shed and purchased a AMPFIBIAN RV Plus
Tested with fridge on 230 V and air con on hot and cold
Tested with fridge on and small 2200watt heater
Also battery charger on in both cases
No problem
Feel much happy now for $118.00 and legal
Guess you are more careful at my age!
Laurie
Corndoggy said
06:05 PM Dec 13, 2019
May have been the same fella that did this?
The words "adapt and overcome" spring to mind. But whoever did this was out of his mind.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Friday 13th of December 2019 06:07:26 PM
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Friday 13th of December 2019 06:08:40 PM
Whenarewethere said
06:09 PM Dec 13, 2019
Then this whole thread has been worthwhile.
Life is too short to be reduced even further by stupidity!
Whenarewethere said
06:14 PM Dec 13, 2019
Corndoggy wrote:
May have been the same fella that did this?
The words "adapt and overcome" spring to mind. But whoever did this was out of his mind.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Friday 13th of December 2019 06:07:26 PM
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Friday 13th of December 2019 06:08:40 PM
Probably standing on the top rung of an aluminium ladder with bare feet in a salt chlorinated pool to reach the plug!
WindyHill said
09:14 AM Dec 14, 2019
In USA you can buy them in the RV stores and in their equivalent to Bunnings. Need two to plug into a normal household outlet when parked in someone's driveway. 50amp down to 30 amp and then 30 down to 15 amp. Called dogbones. There is a a warning on the packaging about not exceeding the loading.
In USA you can buy them in the RV stores and in their equivalent to Bunnings. Need two to plug into a normal household outlet when parked in someone's driveway. 50amp down to 30 amp and then 30 down to 15 amp. Called dogbones. There is a a warning on the packaging about not exceeding the loading.
Totally irrelevant to what you can buy and what you can legally use in Australia . As been said, you can buy leads to connect 10a outlets to 15a socket for use that are legal in Australa. Knuckle heads want to make their own then tell others they're all good. All to save themselves money.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Saturday 14th of December 2019 11:18:03 AM
WindyHill said
11:26 AM Dec 14, 2019
Corndoggy wrote:
Totally irrelevant to what you can buy and what you can legally use in Australia . As been said, you can buy leads to connect 10a outlets to 15a socket for use that are legal in Australa. Knuckle heads want to make their own then tell others they're all good. All to save themselves money.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Saturday 14th of December 2019 11:18:03 AM
I didn't realise that electricity behaved differently in different parts of the world.
Rod Mac said
11:28 AM Dec 14, 2019
Hmm that looks like a 12v positive battery cable going to a starter solenoid, not 240v as the discussion is about.
Agree it is shoddy, but we do not know the circumstances, one can only speculate as to why.
I just out of interest did a "SEARCH" for how many times this Subject has been discussed on Grey Nomads over the years. Using, 10 amp,15 amp, Amphibian, keywords. I came up with 10 threads Some of them going to many pages, and two of them had been locked. I wonder if there are more.
The same old Debate and sometimes "very heated" debate.
Filing Earth Pins, Cheater Leads, Builders boxes, Amphibians. SAFETY.
But with new people on the road all the time and I suppose this discussion will go on forever.
Always interesting seeing how threads pan out.
My assets are too valuable risking it with an illegal cable.
While at it get a proper surge protector to protect your equipment against people doing stupid things on the same circuit.
That's a SHOCKING thing to say.....
It's only illegal if you get caught by the POWER people.
Don't blow a FUSE over it Bush walker.....lol
Cheers Bob
I cannot believe that this conversation continues to come up.
I also cannot believe, whether illegal or not, that people who have Caravans/Motorhomes that cost from several thousand to many hundreds of thousands of dollars are willing to risk that with a home made cable, to in all likelihood save marginally over $100 when they buy all the bits to bodgy up something!
I hope they don't do the same when they service the brakes on their vehicles!
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 13th of December 2019 07:05:32 AM
And the beat goes on.
Totally Illegal, & you have Illegally carried out electrical work.
.
Obviously have no idea of the electrical regulations / Standards
Not so smart!
What Electrical qualifications do you have??
You obviously have no idea of the Electrical reguations&/or Standards
Such an adaptor is definitely not approved for use anywhere in Australia, under any conditions!
[a]
It is totally illegal to have or use such a device under any circumstances
[bYour reference to 10A fuse on power circuits again indicates you are far from qualified to make up or suggest such anything on electrical matters
For many many years, a 15A OLCB has been the norm on powerpoint circuits in domestic situations as the minimum cable used is 15A rated
[c] I certainly hope my & other posts giving the same advice, clarifies the real facts & indicates people should never believe all they read on the internet.
2.5mm2 twin and earth cable, the standard for power point circuits in Australia has a current rating of 20amps (if installed appropriately)and is protected by a circuit breaker or HRC fuse. If protected by a rewireable fuse its 16amps
A 15amp GPO (the one everybody gets excited about) will also be wired using the same size cable (2.5mm2) and also most likely protected by a 20amp circuit breaker.
Back to the keyboard warriors
I can't see how that has any bearing on the illegal 10amp bit between the outlet & the extention lead.
What has that got to do with a van fitted with a 15A inlet socket [ 15A continuous rating] ?
Of course, the cable size allows 20A & it would be ridiculous to have a lower rated fuse with multiple10 outlets on the line as in houses [diversity factor]
Back to you,key board warrior, have a read of AS/NZS 3001 [Transportable structures & their power supplies]
I do hope you do not consider you are fully conversant with the difference between house wiring & "Transportable Structures"
I do not think that was his point
Obviously an electrician with limited experience
Sad that anyone with basic understanding of the Standards cannot see there is a difference between a house or other fixed installation & Transportable Structures
One reason why I always say "Ensure your electrician working on your van is fully conversant withAS/NZS 3001"
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Thursday 12th of December 2019 10:27:38 PM
I see leads like this all the time on building sites. 240v 10a plug to 15a socket, even 415v 20a plug to 32a socket. Even made from orange circular building wire. All made by a qualified sparky, tested and tagged ,all ready to go and all legal, even recorded in a log book. Well that's according to the owner of the leads, and who is the manufacturer of the leads. Even when told and shown the relavent clauses that cover these things some owners still insist they are all above board and I don't know what I'm talking about and just want to be a pain in his arse. And thing is some will take them away and still try to get away with using them. In saying that have still seen plugs wired wrong that have been done by qualified sparkles.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Thursday 12th of December 2019 11:01:06 PM
He obviously has none or has an exceptionally poor understanding of Electrical standards, Rules & Regulations! But I suspect he does not understand it is plug & socket combination that limits the load that can be put on the combination. IF they are the correct size for the purpose. based on either continuous current or diversity factor determined by the maker & the fitting of an appropriate plug.
Just an example.
A small 240v stick welding machine110A output can draw around 20A+ plus but that is at short intervals[low duty cycle] but is factory fitted with a 15A plug.The makers have satisfied the authorities that in normal use that is the equivalent max continuous current.. from the over heating point of view for both plug, socket, &wiring.
Armchair expert perhaps ???
There are many fully approved products on the market
Just be aware that any used with a Transportable Structure /van etc must comply with the Standards for weather proofing, prevention of accidental partial or full pull out of the lead from sockets[Requires an approved means of retention.]
That rules out the more common Clipsal portable multi-outlet power boxes & similar types.[outlet boxes complying to AS3105. Shall not be used as outlet boxes[ Cl4.4 Outlet boxes]
Peter,
Everything you say as always is absolutely correct.
We have had this discussion numerous times but some people just want to be told only what they want to hear!
Have a happy, healthy and safe Christmas.
Untidy work!
Thanks, Montie & may you also have a merry xmas & happy prosperous new year
Same to all my keyboard friends & foes
Unbelievable !!!, tell us more about it, where you found it Etc
Not just untidy, but downright stupid!!
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 13th of December 2019 12:20:51 PM
I probably saw it in the Jokes thread but have seen it on the internet.
As someone pointed it out in this thread one has $100k or more of assets & are you really going to risk safety & not getting an insurance payout over a few dollars!
May have been the same fella that did this?
I have had a 1 meter lead with 10 amp one end and 15 amp other end to connect to my motor home to the house for the last 5 years - no problem and I know it is illegal.
BUT today after reading this subject many times now and before,I went to the green shed and purchased a AMPFIBIAN RV Plus
Tested with fridge on 230 V and air con on hot and cold
Tested with fridge on and small 2200watt heater
Also battery charger on in both cases
No problem
Feel much happy now for $118.00 and legal
Guess you are more careful at my age!
Laurie
The words "adapt and overcome" spring to mind. But whoever did this was out of his mind.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Friday 13th of December 2019 06:07:26 PM
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Friday 13th of December 2019 06:08:40 PM
Then this whole thread has been worthwhile.
Life is too short to be reduced even further by stupidity!
Probably standing on the top rung of an aluminium ladder with bare feet in a salt chlorinated pool to reach the plug!
In USA you can buy them in the RV stores and in their equivalent to Bunnings. Need two to plug into a normal household outlet when parked in someone's driveway. 50amp down to 30 amp and then 30 down to 15 amp. Called dogbones.
There is a a warning on the packaging about not exceeding the loading.
Totally irrelevant to what you can buy and what you can legally use in Australia . As been said, you can buy leads to connect 10a outlets to 15a socket for use that are legal in Australa. Knuckle heads want to make their own then tell others they're all good. All to save themselves money.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Saturday 14th of December 2019 11:18:03 AM
I didn't realise that electricity behaved differently in different parts of the world.
Hmm that looks like a 12v positive battery cable going to a starter solenoid, not 240v as the discussion is about.
Agree it is shoddy, but we do not know the circumstances, one can only speculate as to why.
Rod Mac