that system you have must be fantastic Yobarr, and yes plenty going in from your solar ,to compensate for the daily use, good thing with lithium is you are not so restricted on how many amps you can charge at ,
not sure but you could prob charge that system at around 120-150 amps or more ,and they charge very quickly also .
Wish I had the room for all that solar you have .:)
thanks for the info .
Regards Orid
yobarr said
09:47 PM Jan 27, 2021
orid wrote:
that system you have must be fantastic Yobarr, and yes plenty going in from your solar ,to compensate for the daily use, good thing with lithium is you are not so restricted on how many amps you can charge at , not sure but you could prob charge that system at around 120-150 amps or more ,and they charge very quickly also . Wish I had the room for all that solar you have .:) thanks for the info . Regards Orid
Hi Peter...my van is only 19'6" and I have room to spare on roof,with 3 rows of 3 panels,the 4 seasons hatch,another hatch above the shower,and room for the automatic Sat TV aerial.Panels keep the van cooler by preventing sun from beating down directly onto van roof.Keeping panels clean,however,can be a bit of a PITA on dirt roads,but I carry plenty of water,as well as a couple of pumps! Cheers
orid said
12:42 AM Jan 28, 2021
any chance of a pic of those panels . Like to see how its done .
I have three panels on mine and no more room well not much .
the roof air con spoils it .
yobarr said
01:55 AM Jan 28, 2021
orid wrote:
any chance of a pic of those panels . Like to see how its done . I have three panels on mine and no more room well not much . the roof air con spoils it .
Another advantage of having the AC unit on the drawbar is that more space is created on the roof! Terrible picture,but gives an idea of what's been done.When my hand works again,I will find a way to get a better photo.You may notice on the rear of the van there is a large box,which was a failed experiment with a permanently mounted generator.......too heavy,too much yaw,and illegal because,as well as the rear overhang being more than the load area in front of the rear axis,the distance from the rear axis to rear extremity of the van exceeded 3.7 metres.Bad boy! Generator has never even had petrol in it,and now lives under a cover at the back of my shed,along with the aluminium box that it was in! Cheers
P.S It is important to make sure that panels are properly supported,or they will flex on rough roads.Initially,I had 250 watt panels,but they didn't like being supported in only 4 places.(Two aluminium bars across van body) and were visibly moving.The 190s are much better,and I now can fit 3 across the roof,as shown.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 28th of January 2021 02:48:37 AM
It appears 190W panels weigh around 16kg each so 9 x 16 = 144kg - I wonder how the van roof will find that weight over time?
9 x 190 = 1710W at 12V = a theoretical maximum charging current of about 140A - converting theory into practice probably means a real maximum of around 110A which is still considerable and I wonder how you ensure no single battery maximum charge threshold is exceeded? (I appreciate you're not elec tech)
I wonder how much lithium storage you have? I have a very vague memory of you once mentioning 500Ah?
A nice setup but very expensive.
yobarr said
07:28 AM Jan 28, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
Very interesting Yobarr:
It appears 190W panels weigh around 16kg each so 9 x 16 = 144kg - I wonder how the van roof will find that weight over time?
9 x 190 = 1710W at 12V = a theoretical maximum charging current of about 140A - converting theory into practice probably means a real maximum of around 110A which is still considerable and I wonder how you ensure no single battery maximum charge threshold is exceeded? (I appreciate you're not elec tech)
I wonder how much lithium storage you have? I have a very vague memory of you once mentioning 500Ah?
A nice setup but very expensive.
Hi Mike...the actual panels were fitted by a mate of mine,a retired caravan builder,and the aluminium bars that carry the panels run right across the roof,supported by the actual framework that supports the roof.He also used Sikaflex to secure those bars to the roof,anchored by some flash rivets that are supposed to prevent water ingress? So far,so good! After his many years in the trade,he assures me that there will be no problems,so I hope he's right? The old AC unit weighed more than 30kg and was supported only by 2 aluminium bars across roof between wall frames,so new setup should be OK, as load now is more evenly spread? There are all sorts of controllers and stuff under the bed to prevent overcharging of the 540ah Lithium....I have 6X90ah Victron batteries and a wall mounted Victron Blue Power Colour Control unit,whatever that is.At moment (7.16am) it is overcast and cloudy here,and already batteries are up to 93% although last night I turned the AC off early.To be honest with you,I only really installed the setup that I have after several "experts" told me that what I had proposed couldn't be done,but since it has proved so successful,I have discarded all gas bottles,stove top and gas H/W,so whole van is electric.BUT,just in case it dies,I have a camp oven,a small butane hot plate,and the usual billies,grills etc to go on a camp fire.Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 28th of January 2021 07:58:09 AM
orid said
12:21 PM Jan 28, 2021
Fantastic setup Yobarr , I want one .
Pic are great thanks
Pity my van wouldnt take the extra weight ,its built lightweight anyhow .
I have my generator on the drawbar where your aircon is, puts the ball weight up nicely to 230 - 240kg:) I can fit it in the front boot but with my crook back its difficult getting it in and out.
As Mike says would be pretty expensive ,by the looks ,but great independence for you.
Didn't think it feasable .
( I knew I was wrong soon as I said it ).
Now I'm a believer
Regards Orid
-- Edited by orid on Thursday 28th of January 2021 12:22:01 PM
Grandad5 said
10:46 AM Jan 29, 2021
yobarr wrote:
...... the aluminium bars that carry the panels run right across the roof,supported by the actual framework that supports the roof.He also used Sikaflex to secure those bars to the roof,anchored by some flash rivets that are supposed to prevent water ingress? So far,so good!
Yobarr, would you mind going into just a bit more detail on the setup quoted please? I'm at the planning stage for similar on my van and had come to the conclusion that lengths of aluminium across the roof, attached to the top of the walls would be a good start. Just as you are describing. They would also provide an air gap underneath the panels and in my case, help navigate the curve in the roof.
But.....what size alumnium? RHS, "U" shape or angle maybe? What thickness? Should they also be fixed to the roof sheeting or would that cause an issue when the sheets expand and contract during the day and the crossbeams do not? Just a bit more detail on your apparently successful install would help greatly. I can note the differences betsween our two setups and modify accordingly. I hope.
Jim
yobarr said
11:24 AM Jan 29, 2021
Grandad5 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
...... the aluminium bars that carry the panels run right across the roof,supported by the actual framework that supports the roof.He also used Sikaflex to secure those bars to the roof,anchored by some flash rivets that are supposed to prevent water ingress? So far,so good!
Yobarr, would you mind going into just a bit more detail on the setup quoted please? I'm at the planning stage for similar on my van and had come to the conclusion that lengths of aluminium across the roof, attached to the top of the walls would be a good start. Just as you are describing. They would also provide an air gap underneath the panels and in my case, help navigate the curve in the roof.
But.....what size alumnium? RHS, "U" shape or angle maybe? What thickness? Should they also be fixed to the roof sheeting or would that cause an issue when the sheets expand and contract during the day and the crossbeams do not? Just a bit more detail on your apparently successful install would help greatly. I can note the differences betsween our two setups and modify accordingly. I hope.
Jim
Hi Jim..."'tis raining heavily here today,so I cannot climb ladder,but as soon as I am able I will get a few photos.The gap beneath the panels is critical,and you will be able to see what has been done.Cheers
yobarr said
04:57 PM Feb 3, 2021
Grandad5 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
...... the aluminium bars that carry the panels run right across the roof,supported by the actual framework that supports the roof.He also used Sikaflex to secure those bars to the roof,anchored by some flash rivets that are supposed to prevent water ingress? So far,so good!
Yobarr, would you mind going into just a bit more detail on the setup quoted please? I'm at the planning stage for similar on my van and had come to the conclusion that lengths of aluminium across the roof, attached to the top of the walls would be a good start. Just as you are describing. They would also provide an air gap underneath the panels and in my case, help navigate the curve in the roof.
But.....what size alumnium? RHS, "U" shape or angle maybe? What thickness? Should they also be fixed to the roof sheeting or would that cause an issue when the sheets expand and contract during the day and the crossbeams do not? Just a bit more detail on your apparently successful install would help greatly. I can note the differences betsween our two setups and modify accordingly. I hope. Jim.
Hi Jim...I hope that these pictures help you? Whole frame is aluminium,so I suppose that cross beams and frame expand at similar rates? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 3rd of February 2021 05:48:37 PM
Whole frame is aluminium,so I suppose that cross beams and frame expand at similar rates?
Thank you yobarr. Those pics help a lot. And, same to Whenarewethere for estimates of size.
Re expansion. Yes, I believe you would be correct regarding the crossbeams and roof frame being more or less equal in expansion. The flat aluminium sheet, however, I believe to be a different kettle of fish. Also, on my van, the roof has zero framing. Actually, the walls have effectively zero framing as well this being Australia's first locally made sandwich panel constructed van back in 1969. The roof is a layer of thin ply and the aluminium sheet on top. Ply is not glued or fastened to the aluminium. Both attached to aluminium "U" channel on top of the walls.
If you or anyone else have any thoughts on this subject of expansion of roof sheets, I'm all ears.
A rather liked your flat aluminium idea you used to attach the panels. I'm thinking however of reversing that idea to attach the crossbeam to the body. That would enable me to have small bolts in the shear position.
Thanks again Jim
Whenarewethere said
12:08 PM Feb 4, 2021
I was in the aluminium industry for 2 decades. You won't have expansion issues here. If anything is painted black facing the sun, maybe an issue. Anything white or natural aluminium or clear anodised, not an issue.
Anything in shadow is ok. If the ambient air temperature is high everything will heat up more or less the same.
It's more important that you use 316 stainless steel bolts (James Glen) & not the cheap rubbish from big hardware stores. Whitworths Marine for imperial & stainless steel stores sell metric & sections of 316 for brackets are not that expensive, & won't rust.
yobarr said
12:10 PM Feb 4, 2021
Grandad5 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Whole frame is aluminium,so I suppose that cross beams and frame expand at similar rates?
Thank you yobarr. Those pics help a lot. And, same to Whenarewethere for estimates of size.
Re expansion. Yes, I believe you would be correct regarding the crossbeams and roof frame being more or less equal in expansion. The flat aluminium sheet, however, I believe to be a different kettle of fish. Also, on my van, the roof has zero framing. Actually, the walls have effectively zero framing as well this being Australia's first locally made sandwich panel constructed van back in 1969. The roof is a layer of thin ply and the aluminium sheet on top. Ply is not glued or fastened to the aluminium. Both attached to aluminium "U" channel on top of the walls. If you or anyone else have any thoughts on this subject of expansion of roof sheets, I'm all ears. A rather liked your flat aluminium idea you used to attach the panels. I'm thinking however of reversing that idea to attach the crossbeam to the body. That would enable me to have small bolts in the shear position.
Thanks again Jim
Hi Jim...rather than reversing the flat aluminium plates to attach the cross beams to the body,do you think that perhaps you could simply extend them,thus killing two birds with one stone? Cheers
Personally I would have one bracket to fasten to the van & a separate bracket for the solar panel which is also removable so you can service & or replace the solar panel easily.
You just need to be creative to think of solutions for each situation!
M4 316 stainless bolts with Nyloc nuts and also every hole tapped for the highest quality joint. Extra sectiins of aluminium to spread load on joints.
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 5th of February 2021 09:11:59 AM
Personally I would have one bracket to fasten to the van & a separate bracket for the solar panel which is also removable so you can service & or replace the solar panel easily.
You just need to be creative to think of solutions for each situation!
M4 316 stainless bolts with Nyloc nuts and also every hole tapped for the highest quality joint. Extra sectiins of aluminium to spread load on joints.
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 5th of February 2021 09:11:59 AM
Hi Jonathan....because I cannot get up to the roof while I have only one hand,I could not attach a photo of the mounting system.The cross members each support 3 panels,with gaps between them.These panels are held firmly in place by small aluminium plates,with bolts that are about 3" long,passing through the plates and then through the cross beams.Nyloc nuts.I can easily remove each and every panel if there ever is need to check underneath them,or there ever is a faulty one.Drawings are not flash,but should show what's been done?
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 5th of February 2021 11:32:33 AM
not sure but you could prob charge that system at around 120-150 amps or more ,and they charge very quickly also .
Wish I had the room for all that solar you have .:)
thanks for the info .
Regards Orid
Hi Peter...my van is only 19'6" and I have room to spare on roof,with 3 rows of 3 panels,the 4 seasons hatch,another hatch above the shower,and room for the automatic Sat TV aerial.Panels keep the van cooler by preventing sun from beating down directly onto van roof.Keeping panels clean,however,can be a bit of a PITA on dirt roads,but I carry plenty of water,as well as a couple of pumps! Cheers
I have three panels on mine and no more room well not much .
the roof air con spoils it .
Another advantage of having the AC unit on the drawbar is that more space is created on the roof! Terrible picture,but gives an idea of what's been done.When my hand works again,I will find a way to get a better photo.You may notice on the rear of the van there is a large box,which was a failed experiment with a permanently mounted generator.......too heavy,too much yaw,and illegal because,as well as the rear overhang being more than the load area in front of the rear axis,the distance from the rear axis to rear extremity of the van exceeded 3.7 metres.Bad boy! Generator has never even had petrol in it,and now lives under a cover at the back of my shed,along with the aluminium box that it was in! Cheers
P.S It is important to make sure that panels are properly supported,or they will flex on rough roads.Initially,I had 250 watt panels,but they didn't like being supported in only 4 places.(Two aluminium bars across van body) and were visibly moving.The 190s are much better,and I now can fit 3 across the roof,as shown.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 28th of January 2021 02:48:37 AM
Very interesting Yobarr:
It appears 190W panels weigh around 16kg each so 9 x 16 = 144kg - I wonder how the van roof will find that weight over time?
9 x 190 = 1710W at 12V = a theoretical maximum charging current of about 140A - converting theory into practice probably means a real maximum of around 110A which is still considerable and I wonder how you ensure no single battery maximum charge threshold is exceeded? (I appreciate you're not elec tech)
I wonder how much lithium storage you have? I have a very vague memory of you once mentioning 500Ah?
A nice setup but very expensive.
Hi Mike...the actual panels were fitted by a mate of mine,a retired caravan builder,and the aluminium bars that carry the panels run right across the roof,supported by the actual framework that supports the roof.He also used Sikaflex to secure those bars to the roof,anchored by some flash rivets that are supposed to prevent water ingress? So far,so good! After his many years in the trade,he assures me that there will be no problems,so I hope he's right? The old AC unit weighed more than 30kg and was supported only by 2 aluminium bars across roof between wall frames,so new setup should be OK, as load now is more evenly spread? There are all sorts of controllers and stuff under the bed to prevent overcharging of the 540ah Lithium....I have 6X90ah Victron batteries and a wall mounted Victron Blue Power Colour Control unit,whatever that is.At moment (7.16am) it is overcast and cloudy here,and already batteries are up to 93% although last night I turned the AC off early.To be honest with you,I only really installed the setup that I have after several "experts" told me that what I had proposed couldn't be done,but since it has proved so successful,I have discarded all gas bottles,stove top and gas H/W,so whole van is electric.BUT,just in case it dies,I have a camp oven,a small butane hot plate,and the usual billies,grills etc to go on a camp fire.Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 28th of January 2021 07:58:09 AM
Fantastic setup Yobarr , I want one .
Pic are great thanks
Pity my van wouldnt take the extra weight ,its built lightweight anyhow .
I have my generator on the drawbar where your aircon is, puts the ball weight up nicely to 230 - 240kg:) I can fit it in the front boot but with my crook back its difficult getting it in and out.
As Mike says would be pretty expensive ,by the looks ,but great independence for you.
Didn't think it feasable .
( I knew I was wrong soon as I said it ).
Now I'm a believer
Regards Orid
-- Edited by orid on Thursday 28th of January 2021 12:22:01 PM
Hi Jim..."'tis raining heavily here today,so I cannot climb ladder,but as soon as I am able I will get a few photos.The gap beneath the panels is critical,and you will be able to see what has been done.Cheers
Hi Jim...I hope that these pictures help you? Whole frame is aluminium,so I suppose that cross beams and frame expand at similar rates? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 3rd of February 2021 05:48:37 PM
Looks like 40 x 1.6mm square hollow. You get that in 6.5m lengths & 40 x 3 flat bar on the ends (not quite how I would manufacturer the end)
https://www.aluminiumwarehouse.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=1003_105&product_id=1081
Thank you yobarr. Those pics help a lot. And, same to Whenarewethere for estimates of size.
Re expansion. Yes, I believe you would be correct regarding the crossbeams and roof frame being more or less equal in expansion. The flat aluminium sheet, however, I believe to be a different kettle of fish.
Also, on my van, the roof has zero framing. Actually, the walls have effectively zero framing as well this being Australia's first locally made sandwich panel constructed van back in 1969.
The roof is a layer of thin ply and the aluminium sheet on top. Ply is not glued or fastened to the aluminium. Both attached to aluminium "U" channel on top of the walls.
If you or anyone else have any thoughts on this subject of expansion of roof sheets, I'm all ears.
A rather liked your flat aluminium idea you used to attach the panels. I'm thinking however of reversing that idea to attach the crossbeam to the body. That would enable me to have small bolts in the shear position.
Thanks again
Jim
I was in the aluminium industry for 2 decades. You won't have expansion issues here. If anything is painted black facing the sun, maybe an issue. Anything white or natural aluminium or clear anodised, not an issue.
Anything in shadow is ok. If the ambient air temperature is high everything will heat up more or less the same.
It's more important that you use 316 stainless steel bolts (James Glen) & not the cheap rubbish from big hardware stores. Whitworths Marine for imperial & stainless steel stores sell metric & sections of 316 for brackets are not that expensive, & won't rust.
Hi Jim...rather than reversing the flat aluminium plates to attach the cross beams to the body,do you think that perhaps you could simply extend them,thus killing two birds with one stone? Cheers
Personally I would have one bracket to fasten to the van & a separate bracket for the solar panel which is also removable so you can service & or replace the solar panel easily.
You just need to be creative to think of solutions for each situation!
M4 316 stainless bolts with Nyloc nuts and also every hole tapped for the highest quality joint. Extra sectiins of aluminium to spread load on joints.
-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Friday 5th of February 2021 09:11:59 AM
Hi Jonathan....because I cannot get up to the roof while I have only one hand,I could not attach a photo of the mounting system.The cross members each support 3 panels,with gaps between them.These panels are held firmly in place by small aluminium plates,with bolts that are about 3" long,passing through the plates and then through the cross beams.Nyloc nuts.I can easily remove each and every panel if there ever is need to check underneath them,or there ever is a faulty one.Drawings are not flash,but should show what's been done?
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 5th of February 2021 11:32:33 AM