California to ban the sale of RV generators fron 2024.
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:09 PM Dec 19, 2021
Aussie1 wrote:
And by the way, what knowledge do you assert that I have never been there. You know full well what they say about assumptions.
If you had been there I would have expected yo to be better informed about what is happening there?????
Cheers,
Peter
Aussie1 said
06:32 PM Dec 19, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
And by the way, what knowledge do you assert that I have never been there. You know full well what they say about assumptions.
If you had been there I would have expected yo to be better informed about what is happening there?????
Cheers,
Peter
Well as it turns out your expectations are completely wrong.
Cheers Cobber
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:35 PM Dec 19, 2021
Yep. Wrong about being better informed....
Cheers,
Peter
Warren-Pat_01 said
09:14 PM Dec 19, 2021
And will outboard motors go the same way?
Yes there are electric ones available now but not good for continual running, towing skiers, etc.
I suppose on a calm day one could always float out a large solar blanket to charge the battery to run the electric outboard. Not so good on a choppy day, though.
I guess a former workmate who has decided to live another 26 years to get his fair share of his super ("I'm going to live to 100 to get my share") will see a lot of changes!
DeBe said
11:33 PM Dec 19, 2021
Forget electric outboards, had one once & next to useless in any sort of sea. But still have my trusty Seagull outboard that has a fuel-oil mix of 10-1. Very reliable but does leave an oil slick & smoke screen.
Jaahn said
07:05 AM Dec 20, 2021
DeBe wrote:
Forget electric outboards, had one once & next to useless in any sort of sea. But still have my trusty Seagull outboard that has a fuel-oil mix of 10-1. Very reliable but does leave an oil slick & smoke screen.
Gees I thought they had all gone to be used as boat anchors years ago. A classic example of 1940s pommy technology. NBG from new !
Aussie1 said
09:44 AM Dec 20, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Yep. Wrong about being better informed.... Cheers, Peter
I will see your ego and raise you by 1. Anyhow you have a great Xmas and New Year Cobber.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:52 AM Dec 20, 2021
Theyll just fit Diesel generators . Or design them with the same epa requirements to RV motor . Keep in mind a lot of RVs in US have petrol engines and do they use some fuel ! A little Explorer 6.5 ton has an petrol 454 big block option . 6 miles per gallon ! ULP was cheaper there !!
oxleigh said
10:24 PM Jan 8, 2022
The quotes about whatever china is doing in any subject is only what china wants you to know no matter where you do your research, they lie all the time, just this week they say they have locked down 13 million people in one city because of 150 covid cases. What a load of BULL.
This is the most recent unbelievable rubbish to come out of china since they released the finance destroying viral weapon on the world in readiness for their world domination.
They rely on coal more than any other country in the world to run their battery economy and products. Lets stop sending coal to china and see them come begging.
elliemike said
10:45 AM Jan 9, 2022
oxleigh wrote:
The quotes about whatever china is doing in any subject is only what china wants you to know no matter where you do your research, they lie all the time, just this week they say they have locked down 13 million people in one city because of 150 covid cases. What a load of BULL.
This is the most recent unbelievable rubbish to come out of china since they released the finance destroying viral weapon on the world in readiness for their world domination.
They rely on coal more than any other country in the world to run their battery economy and products. Lets stop sending coal to china and see them come begging.
I think you might find China is a bigger Coal "Producer" than Australia
China dominates global coal production, and accounted for almost 47% of the worlds entire output in 2019. It extracted almost 3.7 billion tonnes during the year, reflecting an annual growth rate of 4%.
Australia (5th in the World) produced 550 million tonnes of coal in 2019,
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:00 AM Jan 9, 2022
oxleigh wrote:
The quotes about whatever china is doing in any subject is only what china wants you to know no matter where you do your research, they lie all the time, just this week they say they have locked down 13 million people in one city because of 150 covid cases. What a load of BULL.
This is the most recent unbelievable rubbish to come out of china since they released the finance destroying viral weapon on the world in readiness for their world domination.
They rely on coal more than any other country in the world to run their battery economy and products. Lets stop sending coal to china and see them come begging.
Do you get these ideas from QAnon?
Aus-Kiwi said
02:41 PM Jan 13, 2022
Who said they are doing a great job of containing Covid ! Hmm
? Ok . Havent convinced me !
gdayjr said
07:59 AM Jan 14, 2022
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
oxleigh wrote:
The quotes about whatever china is doing in any subject is only what china wants you to know no matter where you do your research, they lie all the time, just this week they say they have locked down 13 million people in one city because of 150 covid cases. What a load of BULL.
This is the most recent unbelievable rubbish to come out of china since they released the finance destroying viral weapon on the world in readiness for their world domination.
They rely on coal more than any other country in the world to run their battery economy and products. Lets stop sending coal to china and see them come begging.
The chinese wuill not run out of coal anytime soon.
When it was cheap they were buying it and filling shipping ports with it. It was not only a way to stockpile it without using any land mass, it was also cleaning up the polution in the water.
Pretty sure if they need coal during any shortage, they will simply dredge it back up and use it.
Rob Driver said
10:19 AM Jan 14, 2022
oxleigh wrote:
The quotes about whatever china is doing in any subject is only what china wants you to know no matter where you do your research, they lie all the time, just this week they say they have locked down 13 million people in one city because of 150 covid cases. What a load of BULL.
This is the most recent unbelievable rubbish to come out of china since they released the finance destroying viral weapon on the world in readiness for their world domination.
They rely on coal more than any other country in the world to run their battery economy and products. Lets stop sending coal to china and see them come begging.
I just cannot agree with you more.
It is so refreshing to have someone say it as it is and not to proceed with a thousand reasons why we should bow and scrape to these criminals.
Long Weekend said
12:21 PM Jan 14, 2022
Boy, did this get off topic!
To get back on track, Washington DC has now banned petrol engine powered leaf blowers. Only electric ones can be used from now on.
So, how long before different localities in Australia also ban petrol powered leaf blowers?
However, a lot of people find the high pitch whine of electric motors just as annoying as the lower pitch petrol engines. Witness the resentment against the drone deliveries in suburbs - particularly here in Canberra.
Also, there has been (still ongoing ?) legal action in Victoria against the noise from wind farm turbines.
Murray
Cassie63 said
03:56 PM Jan 14, 2022
So which land fill site do we bury the millions of solar panels in 10 yrs time when there time is up?
Peter_n_Margaret said
04:09 PM Jan 14, 2022
Cassie63 wrote:
So which land fill site do we bury the millions of solar panels in 10 yrs time when there time is up?
From personal experience solar panels will keep producing for 20 to 25 years. That is panels from 40 years ago. No doubt they are better now.
There are certain components within a solar panel that can be recycled much easier than other parts. Up to 95 per cent of a solar panel can be recycled, with the most valuable parts being the glass, aluminium frames, polymers, silicon, copper and silver paste. The silver paste and aluminium frames are particularly valuable to obtain through this process. About 80 per cent of crystalline silicon can also be recovered through a refined recycling process.
Rob Driver said
04:28 PM Jan 14, 2022
Cassie63 wrote:
So which land fill site do we bury the millions of solar panels in 10 yrs time when there time is up?
Very true.
Currently, almost all broken or expired solar panels go into landfill and experts have been warning for some time that more than 100,000 tonnes of modules will end up there by 2035.
Does anyone notice that for every solution there is almost always another problem.
We all might ask that when these panels reach their expiry date who pays for and who performs all this detailed dismantling of solar panels so some of the bits dont end up in landfill.
We cant get people to pick fruit and veggies in this country. Who is going to want to dismantle solar panels. Then apparently, there is a refined recycling process to retrieve 80% of another component.
We might all say, hang on a minute this dismantling and salvation of some components could be done in countries like China. Who pays the freight?
By purchasing a panel we have already paid the freight one way so what will these new recycled come new and improved panels cost?
If we apply all these so called solutions then who will afford these new panels from recycled out of service panels?
-- Edited by Rob Driver on Friday 14th of January 2022 04:47:18 PM
Are We Lost said
05:56 PM Jan 14, 2022
From the link posted by Peter, there is only one solar recycling plant in Australia, opened just 4 months ago. It looks like a pretty small business. So while the text pasted by Peter points out what CAN be recycled, it is certainly not what IS being recycled.
I also can't agree that newer panels are "better" if that refers to the time they will keep producing. Just about zero consumer goods nowadays are designed for long life. If $1 can be saved at the expense of long life you can bet it will be saved. If a panel only lasts 10 years, what percentage of consumers will be able to claim on warranty? How many people or even business could lay their hands on the documentation to claim, and how many suppliers will still be in existence? The Chinese know and exploit this. They won't be the ones with the warranty claims, but will likely be the manufacturer. Win win.
Then there is the fact that older panels were less inefficient than today's panels. Add the degradation factor, and that 10 year old panel falls well short in performance in comparison to the real estate taken by a replacement. With increasing energy demands, how many 10 year old installations will be tossed out and replaced with more efficient and cheaper ones?
And in another 10 years? Rinse and repeat.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 14th of January 2022 05:58:03 PM
DeBe said
07:35 PM Jan 14, 2022
We seem to have drifted off baned generators. But when people upgrade a solar system, the entire older system is chucked out. I was given a 5 yr old 2kw system for free which was working perfectly. They had upgraded to a 5kw system.
Mike Harding said
03:01 AM Jan 15, 2022
I think you'll find vociferous greenies often ignore the *real* environmental cost of their pet "save the planet" flavour of the month solution.
Ivan 01 said
08:56 PM Jan 15, 2022
I have expanded my old Makita tool kit now to include a battery mower, leaf blower, circular saw, whipper snipper, a drill driver, a 1/2 inch drill, a sander, a torch and a small stick type vacuum cleaner.
I am amazed how good these battery tools are now.
I have a double charger and a single charger with 3 x 5 amp hour batteries and 2 x 3 amp hour batteries.
It is so easy to keep these charged and ready to go and I am wrapped not having any tins of petrol around the place.
I would be totally green in my little workshop if I had a solar system to charge it all.
On thinking about it though, if I did have a petrol blower or mower I would not like to be told I could not use them.
elliemike said
01:48 AM Jan 16, 2022
Ivan 01 wrote:
I have expanded my old Makita tool kit now to include a battery mower, leaf blower, circular saw, whipper snipper, a drill driver, a 1/2 inch drill, a sander, a torch and a small stick type vacuum cleaner. I am amazed how good these battery tools are now. I have a double charger and a single charger with 3 x 5 amp hour batteries and 2 x 3 amp hour batteries. It is so easy to keep these charged and ready to go and I am wrapped not having any tins of petrol around the place. I would be totally green in my little workshop if I had a solar system to charge it all. On thinking about it though, if I did have a petrol blower or mower I would not like to be told I could not use them.
California is not stopping the use of them.
But by 2024 they want to eliminate the SALE of internal combustion powered Mowers, Blowers , etc.
And the SALE of internal combustion engine powered cars in 2034 I think
Machinery that is already in the State will still be used.
Well that's the way I read it!
Cowboy7307 said
07:21 AM Jan 16, 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Q7nAYjAJY
Ivan 01 said
09:54 AM Jan 16, 2022
elliemike wrote:
Ivan 01 wrote:
I have expanded my old Makita tool kit now to include a battery mower, leaf blower, circular saw, whipper snipper, a drill driver, a 1/2 inch drill, a sander, a torch and a small stick type vacuum cleaner. I am amazed how good these battery tools are now. I have a double charger and a single charger with 3 x 5 amp hour batteries and 2 x 3 amp hour batteries. It is so easy to keep these charged and ready to go and I am wrapped not having any tins of petrol around the place. I would be totally green in my little workshop if I had a solar system to charge it all. On thinking about it though, if I did have a petrol blower or mower I would not like to be told I could not use them.
California is not stopping the use of them.
But by 2024 they want to eliminate the SALE of internal combustion powered Mowers, Blowers , etc.
And the SALE of internal combustion engine powered cars in 2034 I think
Machinery that is already in the State will still be used.
Well that's the way I read it!
Thanks elliemike I was not aware of the facts
I based my post on what was said a few posts above.
To get back on track, Washington DC has now banned petrol engine powered leaf blowers. Only electric ones can be used from now on.
I should have read the entire two pages on the topic but as the first link and posts became quite tedious in how those with generators are considered as second class people I didnt actually read most of the other argument posts. My bad.
Buzz Lightbulb said
12:02 PM Jan 17, 2022
Cowboy7307 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Q7nAYjAJY
That was a fascinating video. Thank you for sharing thatCowboy737. It certainly addresses many of the alleged issues that some of the subscribers to this list propose. It only goes to show that we need to keep on testing and improving different technologies or we'd still be 'bashing those rocks together' (Douglas Adams)
If you had been there I would have expected yo to be better informed about what is happening there?????
Cheers,
Peter
Cheers,
Peter
Yes there are electric ones available now but not good for continual running, towing skiers, etc.
I suppose on a calm day one could always float out a large solar blanket to charge the battery to run the electric outboard. Not so good on a choppy day, though.
I guess a former workmate who has decided to live another 26 years to get his fair share of his super ("I'm going to live to 100 to get my share") will see a lot of changes!
Gees I thought they had all gone to be used as boat anchors years ago.
A classic example of 1940s pommy technology. NBG from new !
I will see your ego and raise you by 1. Anyhow you have a great Xmas and New Year Cobber.
The quotes about whatever china is doing in any subject is only what china wants you to know no matter where you do your research, they lie all the time, just this week they say they have locked down 13 million people in one city because of 150 covid cases. What a load of BULL.
This is the most recent unbelievable rubbish to come out of china since they released the finance destroying viral weapon on the world in readiness for their world domination.
They rely on coal more than any other country in the world to run their battery economy and products. Lets stop sending coal to china and see them come begging.
I think you might find China is a bigger Coal "Producer" than Australia
China dominates global coal production, and accounted for almost 47% of the worlds entire output in 2019. It extracted almost 3.7 billion tonnes during the year, reflecting an annual growth rate of 4%.
Australia (5th in the World) produced 550 million tonnes of coal in 2019,
Do you get these ideas from QAnon?
? Ok . Havent convinced me !
I just cannot agree with you more.
It is so refreshing to have someone say it as it is and not to proceed with a thousand reasons why we should bow and scrape to these criminals.
To get back on track, Washington DC has now banned petrol engine powered leaf blowers. Only electric ones can be used from now on.
So, how long before different localities in Australia also ban petrol powered leaf blowers?
However, a lot of people find the high pitch whine of electric motors just as annoying as the lower pitch petrol engines. Witness the resentment against the drone deliveries in suburbs - particularly here in Canberra.
Also, there has been (still ongoing ?) legal action in Victoria against the noise from wind farm turbines.
Murray
From personal experience solar panels will keep producing for 20 to 25 years. That is panels from 40 years ago. No doubt they are better now.
Fighting Solar Panel Waste: Reclaiming and Recycling Australian Panels (energymatters.com.au)
What parts of a solar panel can be recycled?
There are certain components within a solar panel that can be recycled much easier than other parts. Up to 95 per cent of a solar panel can be recycled, with the most valuable parts being the glass, aluminium frames, polymers, silicon, copper and silver paste. The silver paste and aluminium frames are particularly valuable to obtain through this process. About 80 per cent of crystalline silicon can also be recovered through a refined recycling process.
Very true.
Currently, almost all broken or expired solar panels go into landfill and experts have been warning for some time that more than 100,000 tonnes of modules will end up there by 2035.
Does anyone notice that for every solution there is almost always another problem.
We all might ask that when these panels reach their expiry date who pays for and who performs all this detailed dismantling of solar panels so some of the bits dont end up in landfill.
We cant get people to pick fruit and veggies in this country.
Who is going to want to dismantle solar panels.
Then apparently, there is a refined recycling process to retrieve 80% of another component.
We might all say, hang on a minute this dismantling and salvation of some components could be done in countries like China. Who pays the freight?
By purchasing a panel we have already paid the freight one way so what will these new recycled come new and improved panels cost?
If we apply all these so called solutions then who will afford these new panels from recycled out of service panels?
-- Edited by Rob Driver on Friday 14th of January 2022 04:47:18 PM
From the link posted by Peter, there is only one solar recycling plant in Australia, opened just 4 months ago. It looks like a pretty small business. So while the text pasted by Peter points out what CAN be recycled, it is certainly not what IS being recycled.
I also can't agree that newer panels are "better" if that refers to the time they will keep producing. Just about zero consumer goods nowadays are designed for long life. If $1 can be saved at the expense of long life you can bet it will be saved. If a panel only lasts 10 years, what percentage of consumers will be able to claim on warranty? How many people or even business could lay their hands on the documentation to claim, and how many suppliers will still be in existence? The Chinese know and exploit this. They won't be the ones with the warranty claims, but will likely be the manufacturer. Win win.
Then there is the fact that older panels were less inefficient than today's panels. Add the degradation factor, and that 10 year old panel falls well short in performance in comparison to the real estate taken by a replacement. With increasing energy demands, how many 10 year old installations will be tossed out and replaced with more efficient and cheaper ones?
And in another 10 years? Rinse and repeat.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 14th of January 2022 05:58:03 PM
I think you'll find vociferous greenies often ignore the *real* environmental cost of their pet "save the planet" flavour of the month solution.
I am amazed how good these battery tools are now.
I have a double charger and a single charger with 3 x 5 amp hour batteries and 2 x 3 amp hour batteries.
It is so easy to keep these charged and ready to go and I am wrapped not having any tins of petrol around the place.
I would be totally green in my little workshop if I had a solar system to charge it all.
On thinking about it though, if I did have a petrol blower or mower I would not like to be told I could not use them.
California is not stopping the use of them.
But by 2024 they want to eliminate the SALE of internal combustion powered Mowers, Blowers , etc.
And the SALE of internal combustion engine powered cars in 2034 I think
Machinery that is already in the State will still be used.
Well that's the way I read it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Q7nAYjAJY
Thanks elliemike I was not aware of the facts
I based my post on what was said a few posts above.
To get back on track, Washington DC has now banned petrol engine powered leaf blowers. Only electric ones can be used from now on.
I should have read the entire two pages on the topic but as the first link and posts became quite tedious in how those with generators are considered as second class people I didnt actually read most of the other argument posts. My bad.
That was a fascinating video. Thank you for sharing that Cowboy737. It certainly addresses many of the alleged issues that some of the subscribers to this list propose. It only goes to show that we need to keep on testing and improving different technologies or we'd still be 'bashing those rocks together' (Douglas Adams)