I thought this thread was about a suggestion made by a grey nomad who, and I repeat, who manages a caravan park, that we should be forced into staying at a caravan park to allow us to free camp. I still see this as money grubbing and totally unethical. So I would suggest that instead of attacking the words used in this debate, attack the idea behind the debate. Seriously, the idea is tantamount to having a printing press for an individual and not for the benefit of the communities visited. I also take affront at the fact that a generalisation was made about wanting something back. As a soon to be totally self funded retiree, I will still be able to afford health insurance, I will never be able to get a pension from the government I will still pay tax for the next 10 years, I will still have to pay all my bills at premium rates for another 10 years and I would suggest that I have worked for the past 37 years to achieve this.
So as far as vitriolic comments goes, given the content of some of the replies, money grubbing in this instance is far from vitriol, rather a fact. And childish behaviour often stems from a lack of comprehension and a realistion of the intent of the written word in the context of the argument.
Oh dear,
I must have missed something. I didn't notice the vitriol spewing forth. But then again it's late at night and i do like a drink.
Isn't debate fantastic, however ill informed and self righteous(and I include myself)
Take the things that matter seriously but not ourselves.
cheers,
Jack
GaryKelly said
07:56 AM Feb 21, 2013
Grey Nomads are big business, and when you get big business you get crooks cashing in on the action to make a fast buck. That's the way it goes, I'm afraid.
Jack Mac said
08:28 AM Feb 21, 2013
GaryKelly wrote:
Grey Nomads are big business, and when you get big business you get crooks cashing in on the action to make a fast buck. That's the way it goes, I'm afraid.
That's very true Gary. But for the first time in our lives, within certain limits, we can control it. We choose who gets the business, which towns/businesses get the fruits and which are left lamenting. I know this is a generalisation but word of mouth is a powerful tool and the power only comes with action.
GN's and the like are a powerful group and i don't mean as a political force, more as a consumer group. I'm the last one to want to get into committees etc we're tring to get away from all that.
It doesn't take long for communities to get the message, if, at the occassional happy hour a group sitting around a fire they decide that they have all had a bad experience in a particular place to send off an email/communicationl to the said Council/Chamber of Commerce. I don't mean a narky letter but a considered view and a considered opinion as well as a possible solution to the grievances.
Councils etc will pay little credence to rants and raves but if you send cogent arguments and points of view stressing the advantages to their community as well as to the travelling public they just may take notice.
I live in Gin Gin Qld. and I would say that we are one of the most RV friendly towns on the Bruce hwy. A recent upgrade of the centre of town has provided caravan and large rig parking basically outside the supermarket newsagent etc. This was at the insistence of the local businesses as they know the revenue from travellers.
Just as a plug, we have an IGA that has some of the best meat specials (not always top grade but good nonetheless) and some of the most friendly staff you will ever meet.
We also have a Caravan park (unfortunately devastated in the recent floods) powered camping in the showgrounds and a lovely free 24 hr park about Ikm out of town on the highway, but a lovely spot.
This is not meant as an advert for Gin Gin but to my way of thinking the positives of a community knowing the value of the travelling public and how to foster them rather than ignore them.
I am speaking as a local and maybe through rose coloured glasses.
I would be interested to hear the thoughts of others who have been this way.
Cheers,
Jack
herbie said
09:02 AM Feb 21, 2013
Hello Jack Mac, could not agree moor with what you wrote , We have stayed in your beautiful friendly town ,on many occasions.We have always been greated with a warm ...Good Day Mate.kind of greating from people in the shops and walking past on the foot path.We have stayed in the c/ park and at the free over night stop out the road. Also the market held in the park we found to be very good also.So from a travelers point of view a big congratulations to you and the rest of the community in Gin Gin.Ican see why it was awarded the most friendliest town.
Regards Herbie and wife Herbie. just a question is the c/ park going to be re opened in the near future ?
gordon_adl said
04:19 PM Feb 21, 2013
Oh lovely, let's resort to personal attacks and name calling now.
beiffe said
04:52 PM Feb 21, 2013
Jack MAc you might be happy to know that help is on the way for the cleanup after the floods.
You should see some news in the local press in the next week with a bit of luck.
This is an example where a friendly town is going to get support whilst some other not friendly towns look like they are to miss out.
When you see the flouro jackets all you need to do is give them a wave and say hello. It is simple really. While the volunteers feel welcome they will stay. If they get the wrong vibes they move on.
Regards Brian
Jack Mac said
07:09 PM Feb 21, 2013
herbie wrote:
Hello Jack Mac, could not agree moor with what you wrote , We have stayed in your beautiful friendly town ,on many occasions.We have always been greated with a warm ...Good Day Mate.kind of greating from people in the shops and walking past on the foot path.We have stayed in the c/ park and at the free over night stop out the road. Also the market held in the park we found to be very good also.So from a travelers point of view a big congratulations to you and the rest of the community in Gin Gin.Ican see why it was awarded the most friendliest town.
Regards Herbie and wife Herbie. just a question is the c/ park going to be re opened in the near future ?
Hi Herbie
Not sure what's happening with the C/p but I'll ask around and see if anyone knows.
Cheers
Jack.
the rocket said
07:22 PM Feb 21, 2013
Jack Mac wrote:
GaryKelly wrote:
Grey Nomads are big business, and when you get big business you get crooks cashing in on the action to make a fast buck. That's the way it goes, I'm afraid.
That's very true Gary. But for the first time in our lives, within certain limits, we can control it. We choose who gets the business, which towns/businesses get the fruits and which are left lamenting. I know this is a generalisation but word of mouth is a powerful tool and the power only comes with action.
GN's and the like are a powerful group and i don't mean as a political force, more as a consumer group. I'm the last one to want to get into committees etc we're tring to get away from all that.
It doesn't take long for communities to get the message, if, at the occassional happy hour a group sitting around a fire they decide that they have all had a bad experience in a particular place to send off an email/communicationl to the said Council/Chamber of Commerce. I don't mean a narky letter but a considered view and a considered opinion as well as a possible solution to the grievances.
Councils etc will pay little credence to rants and raves but if you send cogent arguments and points of view stressing the advantages to their community as well as to the travelling public they just may take notice.
I live in Gin Gin Qld. and I would say that we are one of the most RV friendly towns on the Bruce hwy. A recent upgrade of the centre of town has provided caravan and large rig parking basically outside the supermarket newsagent etc. This was at the insistence of the local businesses as they know the revenue from travellers.
Just as a plug, we have an IGA that has some of the best meat specials (not always top grade but good nonetheless) and some of the most friendly staff you will ever meet.
We also have a Caravan park (unfortunately devastated in the recent floods) powered camping in the showgrounds and a lovely free 24 hr park about Ikm out of town on the highway, but a lovely spot.
This is not meant as an advert for Gin Gin but to my way of thinking the positives of a community knowing the value of the travelling public and how to foster them rather than ignore them.
I am speaking as a local and maybe through rose coloured glasses.
I would be interested to hear the thoughts of others who have been this way.
Cheers,
Jack
Hello Jack, Totally agree with you. We always stop at Gin Gin. Great hot bread shops, asian restaurant, coffee shops (all of them), great stop at showgrounds. Great facilities. Well done Gin gin.
valnrob said
09:43 PM Feb 21, 2013
Time for a chill pill......Don't be so harsh on each other, we are all living in this fantastic country that allows us the freedom of staying home or travelling to one of it's many caravan parks or "freeparks" of our choice.
Be kind to each other.
herbie said
10:00 PM Feb 21, 2013
I think you have your head in the sand over with what is going on re free camping.For how long will we have this freedon for is what we are talking about here, we know we have some free camping left at the moment, but over time there won,t be many to use and i do not think we all will fit into the few that are left.And will it end when the free camps are closed , but your sweet nally it won.t they will move on to National Parks , only day use will be allowed , then State Parks.It won't be done over night it will happen slow, but, give it time. Our grand kids wont get to ever travel as we have been able to enjoy.
Boothie said
06:07 AM Feb 22, 2013
I give up! Fair is fair but when the post gets taken to another thread where the same discussion is carried forward because this one became to personal, I really feel that it is time for people to realise that they need to realise that this is a debate. Any words used to counter the opposite need to be taken in context and not used as retaliatory weapons! They can be used as logical defence against slurs. So I would suggest that all those who made comments against the idea that people be required to spend time in caravan parks so that they can spend time free camping take a look at all the posts. Conversely, all those free campers, the same, read the posts and get this thread back on line!
All the same, the original post was money grubbing and unethical, I stand by that. Otherwise, moderator, please close both posts down, because this was generated by a person who is actually involved in the business of caravan parks and should not have even been allowed to post on this forum in the first place!
Robbiebago said
04:13 PM Feb 22, 2013
It is such a touchy topic for many. Personally I would hate to shift camp, thus I would move on. As a previous business owner, I can accept that the caravan park would be upset at having even one free camp so close. However he does offer services such as amenities block that free camping do not have in general. I think it would be fair for the councils to enforce a no free camping within a certain distance of a CP. However has been proven many, many times, free campers have to buy food and fuel frequently. On a recent trip to Melbourne, we found the majority of CP were full or exorbitantly expensive (ie numerous Big 4s). The nearest free camp we could ascertain coming in from the north was Toolangi (which is terrific see my post http://robbiebago.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/toolangi-recreational-reserve-camping.html) which was still some 80Km from the CBD with a few CP in between. When we needed to be in the city, we were willing to pay. The hard part is finding vacancies at a reasonable price without al the hoo-ha since we don't want playground equipment or even a pool, etc. many van parks advertise a certain number of sites but you quickly find out that a great percentage of the sites are permanent sites!
Michelle http://robbiebago.blogspot.com.au/
Robbiebago said
04:27 PM Feb 22, 2013
Along similar lines, I have to say that my observation of free camping experiences of my self and many others at Ravenshoe, where you can free camp right in town. ttp://robbiebago.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/ravenshoe-on-southern-end-of-beautiful.html. It is a very popular place on the southern end of the Atherton Tablelands. It is just off the main street, almost right opposite a small grocery supermarket with an IGA just up the street. There are hot water showers for a donation. There's a laundromat across the road as well as the many little shops that a town has including an art gallery. Even a branded hardware shop within walking distance. For various reasons we kept on coming back to Ravenshoe over a 6 week period. I observed that the businesses there thrived on the free camp trade. The pub, newsagent, chemist, local fish and chip shop and bakery were extremely popular. Of course we all needed groceries. I think a lot of towns that don't have a CP park nearby would benefit from free campers nearby. Another thing, the closer into town, the greater the police security is which is a boon for some people. Of course there are many people, who really just want to get away from civilization too and that is fine too! We will pay for services at CP and stay when appropriate but we would like a choice in the matter. I don't thing we have the 'right' to dictate where, nor should free campers get the best locations such as beach side spots either, though these are appreciated when available! Just a few more thoughts I put out there!
Michelle http://robbiebago.blogspot.com.au/
rockylizard said
04:28 PM Feb 22, 2013
Boothie wrote:
I give up! Fair is fair but when the post gets taken to another thread where the same discussion is carried forward because this one became to personal, I really feel that it is time for people to realise that they need to realise that this is a debate. Any words used to counter the opposite need to be taken in context and not used as retaliatory weapons! They can be used as logical defence against slurs. So I would suggest that all those who made comments against the idea that people be required to spend time in caravan parks so that they can spend time free camping take a look at all the posts. Conversely, all those free campers, the same, read the posts and get this thread back on line!
All the same, the original post was money grubbing and unethical, I stand by that. Otherwise, moderator, please close both posts down, because this was generated by a person who is actually involved in the business of caravan parks and should not have even been allowed to post on this forum in the first place!
Gday...
Free-camping vs van parks is, and always will be, emotive and will bring out the 'passion' of folk. As constantly stated throughout this forum, there is no place for personal digs on threads and, thankfully, it does not raise its ugly head very often.
That said, the OP on this thread is not currently involved in the business but a full-time traveller who used to manage van parks. They have been members for some time and, like you and me, are free to express their opinions.
As many do to my opinions, folk can ignore them.
Unfortunately, free-camping/van parks and who is the 'strongest lobby group' and who has the 'moral high ground' will continue to be debated . I doubt if there will ever be a mutually acceptable outcome. This is agravated by large numbers of travellers crowded into 'rest areas' near towns - with a percentage of them creating unfavourable images ... no matter how much money these travellers think they bring to the local community.
Cheers - John
NeilandRaine said
02:24 AM Feb 23, 2013
Well it was just a thought. I would of liked to hear a few "this has merit but would have to be worked on". One thing that did make me think was " I wont be told where to spend my money" well welcome to the real world and every time you pay your registration you are being told where to spend your money. My idea was not an intention for people to think it was just a ploy to money grub, just a plan to maybe offer something else. A caravan Park is a local business and does spend money in the local community. My thought was for the betterment of the travelling community not to rip them off. When I stay in c/p I chose small mum and dad parks and have rarely found a bad one. People seem to think that all parks are like a Big 4 It is my observation that most who free camp in an area will when they move on, maybe a 100 k's or so, stop at a caravan park for a night to replenish water, do washing etc. Why not support the business where you have just spent a few days for free. I also read with interest how people say they only shop locally when free camping, well let me mention that on more than a few times I have seen people free camping, pooling, and one person driving about 50 k to a shopping centre and buying up at Coles, when the local area had a small family supermarket. I am so glad those type of people arn't in this forum. It is so good to see that no one is full of self interest. And Gordon I agree with what you had to say and say it so well. Thank you.
You have to admit it was a robust discussion
Happywanderer said
02:54 AM Feb 23, 2013
I wonder if some caravan parks in small towns could have a separate section for a cheaper version of C/Parking as in a powered site for 10 - 15 dollars a night, like they do at Ariah Park. At Ariah Park if you don't want to use any of their facilities but park there and use only your own, you are not charged.
gordon_adl said
02:47 PM Feb 23, 2013
Thanks, and thanks to those of you whom PM'd me with support too.
NeilandRaine wrote:
And Gordon I agree with what you had to say and say it so well. Thank you.
Boothie said
02:23 AM Feb 24, 2013
I have worked in the public sector for many years and I must say, that, after re-reading this thread, I have not encountered any politicians, military officers or economic advisors that carried on a stroke me campaign as I have seen on this thread. So adios amigos, if this the grey nomad scene, I don't want any part of of it.
Happywanderer said
03:15 AM Feb 24, 2013
Boothie wrote:
I have worked in the public sector for many years and I must say, that, after re-reading this thread, I have not encountered any politicians, military officers or economic advisors that carried on a stroke me campaign as I have seen on this thread. So adios amigos, if this the grey nomad scene, I don't want any part of of it.
Really!! Well he didn't last long did he? Has deleted himself.
brickies said
03:28 PM Feb 24, 2013
Not before we all say goodbye I hope , I have read all the post I can't see what it all about , we all do thing our own way but it always good to hear other points of view . But Vita bricks are better than Rice bubbles if you don't agree you can all jump in the lake
gordon_adl said
04:30 PM Feb 24, 2013
So because he couldn't be the grand poobah of all things freecamping he left? Oh well, such is life. Apparently this is what happens when one has a close minded thought process?
Boothie wrote:
I have worked in the public sector for many years and I must say, that, after re-reading this thread, I have not encountered any politicians, military officers or economic advisors that carried on a stroke me campaign as I have seen on this thread. So adios amigos, if this the grey nomad scene, I don't want any part of of it.
herbie said
08:03 PM Feb 24, 2013
One must remember we do still live in this free beautiful country,and we all do not think the same,how boring would that be. And there would not be this gr8t site.
jetj said
09:35 PM Feb 24, 2013
Sadly the subject seems to evoke arguments each time raised.
-- Edited by jetj on Sunday 24th of February 2013 09:36:25 PM
Oh dear,
I must have missed something. I didn't notice the vitriol spewing forth. But then again it's late at night and i do like a drink.
Isn't debate fantastic, however ill informed and self righteous(and I include myself)
Take the things that matter seriously but not ourselves.
cheers,
Jack
That's very true Gary. But for the first time in our lives, within certain limits, we can control it. We choose who gets the business, which towns/businesses get the fruits and which are left lamenting. I know this is a generalisation but word of mouth is a powerful tool and the power only comes with action.
GN's and the like are a powerful group and i don't mean as a political force, more as a consumer group. I'm the last one to want to get into committees etc we're tring to get away from all that.
It doesn't take long for communities to get the message, if, at the occassional happy hour a group sitting around a fire they decide that they have all had a bad experience in a particular place to send off an email/communicationl to the said Council/Chamber of Commerce. I don't mean a narky letter but a considered view and a considered opinion as well as a possible solution to the grievances.
Councils etc will pay little credence to rants and raves but if you send cogent arguments and points of view stressing the advantages to their community as well as to the travelling public they just may take notice.
I live in Gin Gin Qld. and I would say that we are one of the most RV friendly towns on the Bruce hwy. A recent upgrade of the centre of town has provided caravan and large rig parking basically outside the supermarket newsagent etc. This was at the insistence of the local businesses as they know the revenue from travellers.
Just as a plug, we have an IGA that has some of the best meat specials (not always top grade but good nonetheless) and some of the most friendly staff you will ever meet.
We also have a Caravan park (unfortunately devastated in the recent floods) powered camping in the showgrounds and a lovely free 24 hr park about Ikm out of town on the highway, but a lovely spot.
This is not meant as an advert for Gin Gin but to my way of thinking the positives of a community knowing the value of the travelling public and how to foster them rather than ignore them.
I am speaking as a local and maybe through rose coloured glasses.
I would be interested to hear the thoughts of others who have been this way.
Cheers,
Jack
Hello Jack Mac, could not agree moor with what you wrote , We have stayed in your beautiful friendly town ,on many occasions.We have always been greated with a warm ...Good Day Mate.kind of greating from people in the shops and walking past on the foot path.We have stayed in the c/ park and at the free over night stop out the road. Also the market held in the park we found to be very good also.So from a travelers point of view a big congratulations to you and the rest of the community in Gin Gin.Ican see why it was awarded the most friendliest town.
Regards Herbie and wife Herbie. just a question is the c/ park going to be re opened in the near future ?
You should see some news in the local press in the next week with a bit of luck.
This is an example where a friendly town is going to get support whilst some other not friendly towns look like they are to miss out.
When you see the flouro jackets all you need to do is give them a wave and say hello. It is simple really. While the volunteers feel welcome they will stay. If they get the wrong vibes they move on.
Regards
Brian
Hi Herbie
Not sure what's happening with the C/p but I'll ask around and see if anyone knows.
Cheers
Jack.
Be kind to each other.
I think you have your head in the sand over with what is going on re free camping.For how long will we have this freedon for is what we are talking about here, we know we have some free camping left at the moment, but over time there won,t be many to use and i do not think we all will fit into the few that are left.And will it end when the free camps are closed , but your sweet nally it won.t they will move on to National Parks , only day use will be allowed , then State Parks.It won't be done over night it will happen slow, but, give it time. Our grand kids wont get to ever travel as we have been able to enjoy.
I give up! Fair is fair but when the post gets taken to another thread where the same discussion is carried forward because this one became to personal, I really feel that it is time for people to realise that they need to realise that this is a debate. Any words used to counter the opposite need to be taken in context and not used as retaliatory weapons! They can be used as logical defence against slurs. So I would suggest that all those who made comments against the idea that people be required to spend time in caravan parks so that they can spend time free camping take a look at all the posts. Conversely, all those free campers, the same, read the posts and get this thread back on line!
All the same, the original post was money grubbing and unethical, I stand by that. Otherwise, moderator, please close both posts down, because this was generated by a person who is actually involved in the business of caravan parks and should not have even been allowed to post on this forum in the first place!
Personally I would hate to shift camp, thus I would move on. As a previous business owner, I can accept that the caravan park would be upset at having even one free camp so close. However he does offer services such as amenities block that free camping do not have in general. I think it would be fair for the councils to enforce a no free camping within a certain distance of a CP. However has been proven many, many times, free campers have to buy food and fuel frequently.
On a recent trip to Melbourne, we found the majority of CP were full or exorbitantly expensive (ie numerous Big 4s). The nearest free camp we could ascertain coming in from the north was Toolangi (which is terrific see my post http://robbiebago.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/toolangi-recreational-reserve-camping.html) which was still some 80Km from the CBD with a few CP in between. When we needed to be in the city, we were willing to pay. The hard part is finding vacancies at a reasonable price without al the hoo-ha since we don't want playground equipment or even a pool, etc. many van parks advertise a certain number of sites but you quickly find out that a great percentage of the sites are permanent sites!
Michelle
http://robbiebago.blogspot.com.au/
For various reasons we kept on coming back to Ravenshoe over a 6 week period. I observed that the businesses there thrived on the free camp trade. The pub, newsagent, chemist, local fish and chip shop and bakery were extremely popular. Of course we all needed groceries. I think a lot of towns that don't have a CP park nearby would benefit from free campers nearby. Another thing, the closer into town, the greater the police security is which is a boon for some people. Of course there are many people, who really just want to get away from civilization too and that is fine too!
We will pay for services at CP and stay when appropriate but we would like a choice in the matter. I don't thing we have the 'right' to dictate where, nor should free campers get the best locations such as beach side spots either, though these are appreciated when available!
Just a few more thoughts I put out there!
Michelle
http://robbiebago.blogspot.com.au/
Gday...
Free-camping vs van parks is, and always will be, emotive and will bring out the 'passion' of folk. As constantly stated throughout this forum, there is no place for personal digs on threads and, thankfully, it does not raise its ugly head very often.
That said, the OP on this thread is not currently involved in the business but a full-time traveller who used to manage van parks. They have been members for some time and, like you and me, are free to express their opinions.
As many do to my opinions, folk can ignore them.
Unfortunately, free-camping/van parks and who is the 'strongest lobby group' and who has the 'moral high ground' will continue to be debated . I doubt if there will ever be a mutually acceptable outcome. This is agravated by large numbers of travellers crowded into 'rest areas' near towns - with a percentage of them creating unfavourable images ... no matter how much money these travellers think they bring to the local community.
Cheers - John
My idea was not an intention for people to think it was just a ploy to money grub, just a plan to maybe offer something else. A caravan Park is a local business and does spend money in the local community.
My thought was for the betterment of the travelling community not to rip them off. When I stay in c/p I chose small mum and dad parks and have rarely found a bad one. People seem to think that all parks are like a Big 4 It is my observation that most who free camp in an area will when they move on, maybe a 100 k's or so, stop at a caravan park for a night to replenish water, do washing etc. Why not support the business where you have just spent a few days for free.
I also read with interest how people say they only shop locally when free camping, well let me mention that on more than a few times I have seen people free camping, pooling, and one person driving about 50 k to a shopping centre and buying up at Coles, when the local area had a small family supermarket.
I am so glad those type of people arn't in this forum. It is so good to see that no one is full of self interest.
And Gordon I agree with what you had to say and say it so well. Thank you.
You have to admit it was a robust discussion
I have worked in the public sector for many years and I must say, that, after re-reading this thread, I have not encountered any politicians, military officers or economic advisors that carried on a stroke me campaign as I have seen on this thread. So adios amigos, if this the grey nomad scene, I don't want any part of of it.
Really!! Well he didn't last long did he? Has deleted himself.
One must remember we do still live in this free beautiful country,and we all do not think the same,how boring would that be. And there would not be this gr8t site.
Sadly the subject seems to evoke arguments each time raised.
-- Edited by jetj on Sunday 24th of February 2013 09:36:25 PM