I will be heading out in the next few weeks or so - to sketch and paint - with one car (1994 Magna) and one very old tent for sleeping only. I would like to able to power an electric frypan and a jug when camp fires are not allowed. I will also need to charge a laptop and mobile. I already have lights that connect directly to the car battery and a solar shower for warm/hot water. If there is no shelter shed at my camp site I will improvise an awning of some sort. Every thing is very basic camping - like the billy over the camp fire. What type of solar equipment would I need? Any ideas??
If you are an artist and would like to tag along or are already in the region I will heading out from Toowoomba on the Darling Downs - no planned direction or duration as yet. Also open to ideas about suitable locations. Petrol is limited one tank full (65 litres) so probably won't venture to far from home base.
Cheers Jo
dave06 said
12:48 PM Sep 11, 2008
Hi joan and welcome to the forum, you have chosen what are probably the two most nasty things (power wise) to take with you, the only reasonable cost item to suit your requirements would be a uuuughhh!!!!! generator, to power the jug and the frypan would be astronomical in batterys and solar panels, from memory the frypan is about 1500 watt and the jug is similar, an inverter alone would cost in the region of between $600 and $1200 dollars, plus a larger battery $300 upwards, neverlone the solar panels to recharge the things, grab yourself a cobb or something similar to cook on when the fires are not allowed as they give sufficient heat to cook and boil, they run on heat beads and are very cheap to run and easy to use, then again what is wrong with the gas stove and a gas bottle, probably the cheapest and best? way to go, easy to use easy to setup and quick to clean, thats the way I would go
jokirt said
02:53 PM Sep 11, 2008
Thanks Dave
I agree with uuughh!!! when mentioning the generator. However I'm scared ****less with the thought of a gas cylinder bouncing around in my boot.
I cling to my frypan like a comfort blanket because I cannot eat bread and the frypan bakes lovely gluten free scones as well as cooking rice, pasta and anything else I desires. A complete stove and oven rolled into one and there is no need for extra pots. Because it is stainless steel it is very easy to clean. Sadly the days of a doz bread rolls or an .89 cent loaf of bread on camping trips are over for me. A small loaf of bread for me now costs between $5 and $7.
I do have a Coleman camp oven though perhaps the cobb will work just as well for baking. I've never used cobbs before so if anyone has used them for baking can you let me know how you found them.
Still need to charge my laptop, mobile and lights without using up my car battery. I've heard of trickle charges that sit on the dash board - has anyone tried them?
Jo
dave06 said
03:12 PM Sep 11, 2008
ah hah!!! I just happen to own a cobb and at the very real risk of being belittled and ridiculed, I use mine to bake scones, cakes and bread and pastries, as well as the most delicious roast including vegies this side of the pecos, as well as smoke fish, but if you go the gas bottle and stove way I wouldnt worry about the gas bottle rolling around in the boot, if you place it to one side and secure it somehow with a bungy cord to one of the cutouts in the boot it will be fine. you will have blankets and pillows and the tent that you can pack around it and thus securing it reasonably well, however if you want a cobb, then paste this in to your browser and have a nose www.cobb.com.au I dont think you will be dissapointed with it, honestly we have a couple of extras with our cobb and I am willing to bet that whatever you cook with your frypan you will be able to cook better with a cobb. and it only uses about 9 or 10 barbecue beads, I checked with the local fire department, c.f.s. and they seem to find that in south australia the cobb is fine to be used on fire ban days,except on TOTAL fireban days when you may not even use a gas fire, as far as charging the phone and laptop, I see K-Mart have the projecta solar panels from memory I think they are 20 or 30 watt, they cost about $150- $200, this would be more than adequate to recharge these things, they would plug straight in
-- Edited by dave06 at 16:45, 2008-09-11
Peter_n_Margaret said
03:36 PM Sep 11, 2008
.........when camp fires are not allowed.Jo, you need to do few checks here.... If campfires are not allowed, you will find that nor is a Cobb, and in some cases a gas cooker may be banned too...... and putting them in your tent or car may not help either.
Cheers, Peter
jokirt said
05:48 PM Sep 11, 2008
Thanks Guys
Cobb sounds great - but I may be back to the fry pan after all with total bans. I'll do some more research and get back to you all.
Happy cooking
Jo
Basil Faulty said
11:42 AM Sep 12, 2008
jokirt wrote:
.....I've heard of trickle charges that sit on the dash board - has anyone tried them?
Jo
Yes sure have.... cost about $30 at most car places but only do put out a trickle @ 13-14Vdc. In fact just enough to stop a car battery going flat by natural attrition, around 250Ma so I don't know if you could charge a laptop from them, the charger for my laptop ouputs 19Vdc @ 3.4 amps....Maybe ok if you have a decent day, full sun and don't use the lappy while charging it...You would have to read the details on your charger to see what is needed. Look I'm a great fan of Solar & wind power but for sheer convneience you can't beat a Generator.
Inverters are not really practical, yes they do the job you can run your plasma out bush to watch the cricket off a 12 volt battery but the costs and losses due to the "inversion" process and bateries etc make it really only stopgap. Generators are more practical and abborhed by the purists but hey they don't have to camp near you.... I saw a 2200 watter in ALDI yesterdqay rated at 60DbA which is quieter than a normal conversation between 2 enthused greynomads for $349...
-- Edited by Basil Faulty at 12:50, 2008-09-12
twobob said
09:08 PM Sep 12, 2008
As with Basil, alternative energies are great, but you need to be dedicated to use them. I have setup a solar system for a science project. The return was not there, and the problems were. But they were enviromentalist, and had the money.
A very small geny, cost little to run, and if purchased new, will do the job for some time, at little cost. I have also seen them at rediculus prices <$200.00 for 500watts -
You will need approx 1000watts as a small kettle will consume 750w, and your "pan" - not sure - but it should cover it (check the label - multiply the amps by the volts ie 4a @ 240v = 960watts BUT allow that at 75% (roughly) so you wold be looking for 1200w gen)
Dont get me wrong - alternative energy works - you just need to have a good budget, but more so, know what you can do with them.
jokirt said
09:18 AM Sep 13, 2008
Yes! ! " to know what you can do with them " ( generators and solar) is exactly what I'm after. Once I get a handle on this I will be able to do a cost /benefits analysis.
I've sent for info on what appliances I can use on solar power to the providers, but I'm not getting anything back. Research on 12v jugs shows them to be a waste of time and money.
I had thought of using the stand alone solar panels and an inverter for my shed (art studio) and perhaps for fans in the house during the daylight hours to reduce the power bill thus getting a return on my investment. Because I would only be using solar energy during the day I am hoping it won't use up the batteries. Still waiting on specifications for this.
My bill goes up $30 -$40 per month during winter. Using solar in summer could offset this cost to a degree and the solar kit would always be there ready anytime I wanted to hit the road.
I also checked out the Cobb Cooker Dave mentioned. I looks really great so I'll keep that one in mind as well. We have the Cobb bricks at our local BCF so I'm going to try one in my Coleman oven and see how that goes.
Thanks folks for the great ideas
Jo
dave06 said
10:43 AM Sep 13, 2008
the first rule in power be it solar or battery or 240v is CONSERVATION, dont use it unless you really have to, then if you do, then keep it small and current draw low, according to energy australias website, the kettle consumes typically between 2000 and 2200watt and a typical frypan consumes the same (2200 watt) you are going to need a generator obviously larger than 2400 watt, not knowing the sizes they come in, and also allowing for the typical 75% of "actual " running, I would assume you would need a 3kva or 3000 watt unit, I dont know much about them (dont want to either) but this thing would have to weigh in at 30 kilos plus, even a modern inverter type costing heaps, never lone lifting it in and out of the boot, and you have a fuel can to carry as well, I looked at a couple of generic cheapies costing very little but they are built like a tank, have to weigh 40 kilos plus, I still think you would be better of with a gas stove and light and bottle, costing less than $200, with a cheap K-mart type 30 watt solar panel, $150 just to recharge your phone and laptop, if you really, really dont want the gas setup then probably the cobb or similar is the next step, with a battery powered light, complete solar with batteries and inverter would have to cost in excess of ( and I will be corrected on this) $2,500 -$3,000 or more, when one considers the load you require, the other way is that you stay at powered sites and just suck off their power. to use the solar panels at home as well is a good idea but it will cost you unless you cut back on the need for power, solar panels are great but expensive (per kwh)
-- Edited by dave06 at 12:12, 2008-09-13
twobob said
11:15 PM Sep 13, 2008
Jo
"to know what to do with them" - the biggest trouble I have found with alternative energy's is, the people that want them - wish to use them as they do normally - ie turn on a light, turn on the kettle, WHENEVER
I assume why you are not getting the answers to your question, is because you are not being definitive, about what you wish to achieve. Do not get this wrong, most people do the same, simply because, they think they know what the will do/want, and then go about using it like on mains power. They fail and get a bad report ( especially the supplier of same)
An example, a good solar cell, will produce 1000watts (there may have better), but this is rated at FULL sun and no losses. You are having breakfast, so on with the kettle, 750w (very small kettle) on with the pan say 1000w, turn the radio on 150w , turn on the lights in the toilet 60w. Check your emails 250W SO you have a 1000w in and 2210w going out. BUT it is morning, low sun, and you have parked you van in the shade (of course!) - and I hear you say, but the rest of the time if ALL in (but you have parked in the shade!) and you have a cuppa 5-6 times a day. This is why they fail and this is why the suppliers have trouble giving you a quote - they fail because the maths do not add up for too many reasons. If you have a look at alternative system, almost all, have a gen backup.
So I stop here - they are good "if you know what they are capable of and what they can do"
Dave has made his suggestions from years of experience, and i provide an insight to alternatives.
My suggestion, based on what I think you wish to do is this
Use LPG for cooking - preferably the cob if fires are allowed (then you can have a pot for a cuppa bubbling all day)
Use hurricane lamps - I put Diesel in mine - keeps the insects at bay
Have a spare battery, that is charged off the car, for all else
Invest in a cheap, 500w to 1000w gen - for those occasions when all else will not do.
Alternatives (solar) I use them for backup - ie they will charge my battery over a day or so, if I am stuck.
Basil Faulty said
11:19 AM Sep 14, 2008
I found that one of those single burner gas stoves that come in a black plastic attache case is the bees knees for Camping. The gas costs around $2 a cartridge and lasts around 90 mins. You can buy them everywhere. For camp lighting you cannot go past the new LED lights, I have an elcheapo LED torch and a LED Torch that goes on your head which is great for reading at night, fishing or whenever you need your hands free. I saw in Dick Smiths a Solar phone charger yesterday for $49.95 that does everything.... http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/48cc62f20a1a0e68273fc0a87e0106a5/Product/View/A1477
The problem with solar is that at best you can get about 850 watts/ sq metre in full sunlight but you have to store it.... I've seen the solar brigade camping and it takes them 2 hours to pack up then another hour to get their tent stowed. I'd be going with the gas fridge & lights and cooking, the solar charger for your lappy (just be aware that it will take all day in full sun to charge, not 2 hours) and a $99 bunnings b generator for emergency charging and power. Yep most of the 12 volt appliances are not worth the money, except perhaps the 12 volt inflators for air beds....
Valderi said
07:19 PM Sep 14, 2008
Hi Jo
Within the next 4 months I am heading out on the road full time and will also be taking my art with me.
Firstly I would like to thank all the guys on this forum for steering me in the right direction regarding energy systems and where to get more information. At the end of the day it does come down to what you want to run to work out what energy system will be best for you.
In my case I am going solar only and initially wanted to run a fridge, water pump, electric lighting, radio as well as a laptop computer. Knowing me on a computer with art software I would be on it eight hours a day easy and I soon realised that the solar power system I have in mind won't keep up. Instead I have dropped off the computer and will go for an LCD TV so I can play DVD's if the weather gets nasty (hope my batteries are big enough). I know that I will need to be conservative and mindful of my power usage.
Most of my work will be pen and ink, coloured pencils, watercolour, oil on canvas. I mostly use my computer for creating designs for transfers for T-shirts and have arranged with a friend to touch base one month a year where I can access my old computer and get my next 12 month designs ready. I can then put the info on disk and then can get the designs printed on the road as needed. This is how I have gotten around needing the computer on the road.
I am still learning about solar power systems and hope this has been some form of help to you.
Best regards Valderi
PS. keep your pencil sharp!
-- Edited by Valderi at 20:22, 2008-09-14
dave06 said
07:28 PM Sep 14, 2008
good on you frank, all the best for your future
twobob said
10:15 PM Sep 16, 2008
Just found this site - thanks to Gary
May be of use to check what solar power is needed
http://www.rpc.com.au/products/services/faq-info/calc/calculator.html
jimbo said
06:49 PM Sep 17, 2008
What a fantastic site this is......That solar web site you gave out is terrific.(Twobob).I have just come back from the Murray river at Moama NSW camped out for 5 nights (very windy i can tell you all) I used 6+ 12volt- 12 amp batteries joined together with invertor 300 watt and used my TV VHS and DVD all lights in my van (5 in all)Still plenty of charge left in my battery pack.......I still can't find an answer to my question Re- what wattage would be required from solar would it take to send a trickle through to my battery pack during the day
-- Edited by welcome at 19:50, 2008-09-17
jokirt said
07:56 PM Sep 17, 2008
You might like to check out these as well
http://www.exploroz.com/vehicle/electrics/solar.aspx
Has articles with details on the Watts for various appliances
http://www.caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/ Books by Collyn Rivers on solar
http://www.campertrailers.org/collyns_page.htm Articles on 12 volts by Collyn
Rainbow Power did have a forum by it had a tech problem and had to be closed down - it had some good posts.
Exploroz also has an open forum with some interesting Q and A on solar. I've ear marked them for futher research.
Sidewinder .com.au sells solar kits, generators and battery chargers suitable for travellers and writes articles on batteries, solar etc for Exploreoz.
I haven't had time to put all this data together yet. But I think I should find something just right for my needs with the kind of data they provide. Hope you do too.
Jo
jimbo said
08:11 PM Sep 17, 2008
Thanks Jo...Will have a Bopeep....
erehwon said
02:19 PM May 17, 2010
Ever thought of the coleman duel fuel stove use 1 with a single pot and fry pan does everything I want. Boil water fry bread and one pot dinners
I will be heading out in the next few weeks or so - to sketch and paint - with one car (1994 Magna) and one very old tent for sleeping only. I would like to able to power an electric frypan and a jug when camp fires are not allowed. I will also need to charge a laptop and mobile. I already have lights that connect directly to the car battery and a solar shower for warm/hot water. If there is no shelter shed at my camp site I will improvise an awning of some sort. Every thing is very basic camping - like the billy over the camp fire.
What type of solar equipment would I need? Any ideas??
If you are an artist and would like to tag along or are already in the region I will heading out from Toowoomba on the Darling Downs - no planned direction or duration as yet. Also open to ideas about suitable locations. Petrol is limited one tank full (65 litres) so probably won't venture to far from home base.
Cheers Jo
-- Edited by dave06 at 16:45, 2008-09-11
If campfires are not allowed, you will find that nor is a Cobb, and in some cases a gas cooker may be banned too...... and putting them in your tent or car may not help either.
Cheers,
Peter
Yes sure have.... cost about $30 at most car places but only do put out a trickle @ 13-14Vdc. In fact just enough to stop a car battery going flat by natural attrition, around 250Ma so I don't know if you could charge a laptop from them, the charger for my laptop ouputs 19Vdc @ 3.4 amps....Maybe ok if you have a decent day, full sun and don't use the lappy while charging it...You would have to read the details on your charger to see what is needed.
Look I'm a great fan of Solar & wind power but for sheer convneience you can't beat a Generator.
Inverters are not really practical, yes they do the job you can run your plasma out bush to watch the cricket off a 12 volt battery but the costs and losses due to the "inversion" process and bateries etc make it really only stopgap. Generators are more practical and abborhed by the purists but hey they don't have to camp near you.... I saw a 2200 watter in ALDI yesterdqay rated at 60DbA which is quieter than a normal conversation between 2 enthused greynomads for $349...
-- Edited by Basil Faulty at 12:50, 2008-09-12
A very small geny, cost little to run, and if purchased new, will do the job for some time, at little cost. I have also seen them at rediculus prices <$200.00 for 500watts -
You will need approx 1000watts as a small kettle will consume 750w, and your "pan" - not sure - but it should cover it (check the label - multiply the amps by the volts ie 4a @ 240v = 960watts BUT allow that at 75% (roughly) so you wold be looking for 1200w gen)
Dont get me wrong - alternative energy works - you just need to have a good budget, but more so, know what you can do with them.
-- Edited by dave06 at 12:12, 2008-09-13
I saw in Dick Smiths a Solar phone charger yesterday for $49.95 that does everything.... http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/48cc62f20a1a0e68273fc0a87e0106a5/Product/View/A1477
The problem with solar is that at best you can get about 850 watts/ sq metre in full sunlight but you have to store it.... I've seen the solar brigade camping and it takes them 2 hours to pack up then another hour to get their tent stowed.
I'd be going with the gas fridge & lights and cooking, the solar charger for your lappy (just be aware that it will take all day in full sun to charge, not 2 hours) and a $99 bunnings b generator for emergency charging and power.
Yep most of the 12 volt appliances are not worth the money, except perhaps the 12 volt inflators for air beds....
Hi Jo
Within the next 4 months I am heading out on the road full time and will also be taking my art with me.
Firstly I would like to thank all the guys on this forum for steering me in the right direction regarding energy systems and where to get more information. At the end of the day it does come down to what you want to run to work out what energy system will be best for you.
In my case I am going solar only and initially wanted to run a fridge, water pump, electric lighting, radio as well as a laptop computer. Knowing me on a computer with art software I would be on it eight hours a day easy and I soon realised that the solar power system I have in mind won't keep up. Instead I have dropped off the computer and will go for an LCD TV so I can play DVD's if the weather gets nasty (hope my batteries are big enough). I know that I will need to be conservative and mindful of my power usage.
Most of my work will be pen and ink, coloured pencils, watercolour, oil on canvas. I mostly use my computer for creating designs for transfers for T-shirts and have arranged with a friend to touch base one month a year where I can access my old computer and get my next 12 month designs ready. I can then put the info on disk and then can get the designs printed on the road as needed. This is how I have gotten around needing the computer on the road.
I am still learning about solar power systems and hope this has been some form of help to you.
Best regards
Valderi
PS. keep your pencil sharp!
-- Edited by Valderi at 20:22, 2008-09-14
-- Edited by welcome at 19:50, 2008-09-17