I'm pleased it's done but I don't think the eye for an eye approach works. I'd have prefered to see them made "incommunicado" for a while.... I wonder did they get their 99 virgins or whatever, what a laugh. 
I just wonder also why we Aussies keep supporting a culture that condones these acts of senseless violence in the name of a religious belief.
My solution, draconian as always, would be to not allow Aussies to visit Indonesia.
Sad too as I know a couple of Muslim families who are really upset that the rest of the world thinks all Muslims are like those 4 (the Cleric got off)....
I'll never understand religious zealots.

wondering when this would come up, dont know the answer, but surely if it's religion they want isnt it religion they should get, 

if they blow up one of our religious sites ( a pub) then why shouldnt we find a fanatical altzheimer ridden christian, strap a great swag of crackers and sky rockets on him and send him into the mosque shouting "GREY NOMADS RULE O.K."  light the blue touch paper and set him off, that would surely put the bejabbers into their jehad 

99 virgins, great slobbering blue whales, I married one and at times thats one too many!!!!!! 

I know a couple of muslims and they are great people and damn fine aussies, proud to call them freind

-- Edited by dave06 at 19:53, 2008-11-09

Not all Muslims are terrorist but it appears that all terrorist are Muslims, why is it so ?

Thankfully only a small percentage of Muslims feel that the world has done them wrong or want to get even with everyone over a fight that started 1200 years back over who should lead the pack or who owned the camels ,goats and females , note the position of females in the Muslim pecking order .

Recently undertook a short course on Middle Eastern Religions , and after that I had a better understanding about the whole deal , both Christian and Muslim faiths . It's much like the conventional bible we westerners take as the only book of fact written in a lost language many years after the events supposedly took place. Given the time lapse you have to allow for some journalistic licenece and the so called experts who put it all together  . Most of the players in both books were illiterate and relied on others to scribe for them so even back then the age old philosophy stood true "Lets not let the truth get in the way of a good yarn" .

The story of religion from both sides contains horrific accounts of how man can and still does treat fellow humans so neither side has the right to throw stones, or bombs in this case. Believe it or not  Charlton Heston betrayalon the big screen. is not within a bulls roar of the books we rely on from the period   

They should have been put to death in obscurity not with all the media attention and should have been buried inside the goal fence without any fanfare not back on home turf .

I was a little put off by the aussie drunks in Bali last night and equally with the aussie media for even giving them the time to scream their anger through my tele, must be a slow day for news in Bali .

As for the Virgins well that's a big call finding 300 virgins, all we can hope is that all look like bush pigs

We need to remember our call for the death penalty in this case when our 9 go for the high jump and not cry foul. We must consider the circumstances of the crime is no different , their actions caused the death of others and it was in another country as well. not ours.

-- Edited by Wombat 280 at 20:14, 2008-11-09

Hi Wombat,

You are about the same age as me, so you don't have the excuse of being too young to remember the Baader-Meinhof gand, the Unabomber, the IRA or the Tamil Nadu.

Not all terrorists are Moslems, and to get into that sort of mind-set is simply taking the easy way out. I will admit that at the moment the majority of terrorist organisations seem to be based on Islamic fundamentalism, but considering that there are approximately 1.8 billion moslems in the world and that they are a demographic of predominantly under-developed nations it is hardly surprising.

The whole concept of describing people or groups as "terrorists" is a lazy way of looking at the world situation. These people are Mass Murderers nothing more nothing less and should suffer the same fate as murderers in any other situation. Why don't we describe Hitler or Stalin or Idi Amin as a terrorist?

As to the death penalty, I am not a proponent but when in Rome . . .

Regards

Mike

look I fully agree with mike on this one, there have been and will be in the future mass killers its just that these people seem to target high profile positions and young people and as far as I'm concerend that makes them stand out just a little, hitler rounded up all the jews and systamatically destroyed them, the una bomber centralised crime on to government buildings and law enforcement offices, the ira just wanted a free ireland away from british rule, and who wouldnt these people terrorise our young and it doesent matter what religion or creed or colour, they just kill because they believe all non muslims are "infidels" and are to be converted or destroyed, it is taught so in the koran I didnt believe in the death penalty but now I would have gladly pulled the trigger the bali nine are in the same boat and once tried, convicted and proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt by their peers then they too should die if that is the law over there I have no time for drug smugglers and no time for people who kill for religion be it christian or muslem religious wars have been and will be going on for thousands of years, crazed misfits (and thats what these things are) must be put down as you would a rabid dog I'm a great beleiver in reopening port arthur and heavy labour penal colonies for the worst offenders, also reintroducing the lash and the cat, society is becoming too forgiving, car jackings in major cities is becoming an everyday occurence, theft, muggings, assaults on innocent victims is rising all the time, home invasions. the time will come when we, as with america, will have to bear arms just to get a loaf of bread safely, I dont believe in carryng firearms but if it comes down to the protection of my family I will

dave06 wrote:

---

look I fully agree with mike on this one, there have been and will be in the future mass killers its just that these people seem to target high profile positions and young people and as far as I'm concerend that makes them stand out just a little,

hitler rounded up all the jews and systamatically destroyed them,

the una bomber centralised crime on to government buildings and law enforcement offices,

the ira just wanted a free ireland away from british rule, and who wouldnt

these people terrorise our young and it doesent matter what religion or creed or colour, they just kill because they believe all non muslims are "infidels" and are to be converted or destroyed, it is taught so in the koran

I didnt believe in the death penalty but now I would have gladly pulled the trigger

the bali nine are in the same boat and once tried, convicted and proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt by their peers then they too should die if that is the law over there

I have no time for drug smugglers and no time for people who kill for religion be it christian or muslem

religious wars have been and will be going on for thousands of years, crazed misfits (and thats what these things are) must be put down as you would a rabid dog

I'm a great beleiver in reopening port arthur and heavy labour penal colonies for the worst offenders, also reintroducing the lash and the cat, society is becoming too forgiving, car jackings in major cities is becoming an everyday occurence, theft, muggings, assaults on innocent victims is rising all the time, home invasions. the time will come when we, as with america, will have to bear arms just to get a loaf of bread safely, I dont believe in carryng firearms but if it comes down to the protection of my family I will

---

I tend to agree but I am not sure the death penalty, especially in situations where the criminals end up as martyrs, is a good thing. The 3 aussie drug smuggelrs on death row at the moment would probably agree with me. These people were nothing but criminals under any religious edict you want to cite, I'm no expert on Islam and simply can't comprehend how one section of it is determined to eliminate all of us who are not Muslim, like bloody Dalecs.... exterminate exterminate.... and another is happy to go with the flow.
I think the best punishment would have been to hold them incommunicado ( for the terms of their natural lives) so that this whole sordid busness could not get the oxygen it needs to perpetuate. Then if others could see that martydom was not going to happen they just may think twice about it.

I to agree that we as society are to lenient and too accepting of criminal behavior. Drug users really get up my nose, I think to myself that I should not have to pay for the actions of others, I don't force these people to shoot up and the money we spend on them could well be spent on other more deserving things. A friend of mine had her car taken by force, she was beaten badly, thrown to the road and left.... Ok the matter eventually got to court and the defece was that the imbecile who nearly killed her got off because he was under the influence of a prohibited substance at the time. I would haved gladly given him the Marcus Clarke treatment but he got a $500 fine and a 6 month good behavior bond and my friend is waiting 2 years later for her compensation for her wrecked car, hospital bills etc from the "victims of crime fund". This reminds me that a point to check up on with your vehicle insurance is to make sure you are covered if you are involved in an accident caused by a "felon avoiding lawful affest" ie drunken hoon being chased by police.

Not wanting to labour the  issue a couple of points I overlooked earlier .

Before I get going I must say I'm not of the Islamic faith or a defender of any faith, those would want to believe in a higher place can do so I am just someone who attempts to maintain a balanced view of world events.


The true Koran is written in Arabic and it is forbidden by the Islamic fanatics to be translated into any other language . In some Islamic areas of the world if found with a copy in another language it means death by some horrific means.

No where in the Koran does it say say kill all non believers , (French , Arabic, German Translations ) in fact the Koran expresses a totally opposite approach .

The problem as I see it is that in most  areas away from the major cities  in   Islamic dominated countries the literacy rate is extremely low with maybe only 1 - 1000 been able to read and write but not both in some village only one can read . All doctrine is passed by word of mouth hence, the cleric of the village or region can preach what ever takes his fancy, who has the knowledge or is about to challenge his words.

It's like the pomie WW1  message from the front to HQ   "Send More Troops We are Going to Advance" .  Upon reaching HQ by runners translated to   "Send 2/6 we are going to a dance".

When serving in the boarder areas of Pakistan / Afghanistan all local and international news, after bias translation , was pinned to the village square notice board and someone would could read yelled it out to the villagers standing around , see how they get a twisted view of the outside world .  Believe or not it can take 4 days to get a phone call through to Australia from the boarder regions while the Bin Ladden and followers  carry Sat phones  In places like that literacy is power and with power comes corruption. The average Muslim is happy to be left alone to tend his paddocks  and herd the one's we need to keep watch on are those who come through the religious schools where for 16 hours a day they hear nothing but the word as spoken by the village idiot.

The wankers who went to the firing squad couldn't link two words together unless learning is parrot fashion beforehand from the village cleric.


  Ask one's self, who in there right mind could be convinced to become a suicide bomber, that act alone tells me  that with continual brain washing how crazy the system can become , lateral thinking is neither practiced or allowed once graduated from the school , monkey see monkey do  is the only way  to the Virgins .

I seem to recall that the Bali bombing also took a lot of true  Islamic followers to their deaths ,well I supposed to some out there in fantasy land that's just collateral damage and doesn't count in the scheme of things, only count the white christian  ones .

AS for the IRA, it may have started out with a legitimate cause on  the  post office steps but ended up as just another arm of the Mafia killing off there own and using the poms as an excuse.   Extensively documented in the world press  at the time  is  how  the leaders of the organization got extremely wealthy out of the construction and protection industry not to mentions arms sales to the Islamic revolutionists. Really no different to our Union bosses, now they run the country and can do it with the public's blessing



-- Edited by Wombat 280 at 20:19, 2008-11-11

-- Edited by Wombat 280 at 20:32, 2008-11-11

well there you go, a lot more indepth knowledge than I would like to possess, I still say "KILL EM ALL. AND LET GOD SORT THEM OUT" whoever SHE may be!!!

Don't give up now you started this so stay in there I'm enjoying the engagement of like minds. God can't sort em out he is going to forgive all sinners in the end anyway so why get uptight about a few sins down here in the land of the mortals just go for it

well as i stated above, kill all genocidal maniacs is MY kneejerk reaction, but I'm a man of simple thoughts and actions, if somethings broke, we fix it, fencing wire, bolts or hand grenades, whatever it takes to keep the show on the road but Basil also has a case of place them in long term imprisoment under hard labor with no televised partys, but I am old fashioned, if someone hurts me or mine then I immediately go into mass murder mode, someone hurts my country, well roll out the tanks, I am not greatly religious, I was however raised in a christian family, the things that I have seen make ME beleive that there is no higher being or if there is then he/she is looking somewhere else, drug smugglers that are tried fairly and convicted fairly, IN MY EYES should die immediately and painfully, as they inflict upon the recipients of the drug they are smuggling I dont understand the mentality of a government that condones terrorism on any scale, we support indonesia and other countries with huge cash payments every year, we supply food and support through many humanitarian projects to many so called third world countries, and yet it is these very countries that support, openly or secretively the so called terrorist plots against the so called civilised world the surgeon who is going to perform the operation on my son is vollunteering in afganistan for a month, he must wear protective vests and carry weapons at all times, attacks on the very hospitals that he is working at is a common occurance, these hospitals are placed there to help the local population, not troops, and yet the taliban attacks these placements destroying the very thing put in place to help the weakest of their people meanwhile the kiddies are starving, it brings me to tears whenever they show these little fellers displayed as nothing but a hollow sack full of bones, the big staring eyes haunt me and yet heres my fridge and pantry overflowing with goodies the surgeon in question is a half practicing muslim, thats where I got the info from about the coran I have been asked on many occasions to vollunteer abroad, as this surgeon and I have become quite good freinds, it appears these hospitals operate with no running water and no basic plumbing, this is where I would come in, my handyman skills would be gold, but it is the local idiots who destroy these amenitys in the first place, after volunteers place them there we, as a free democratic country, charge in when our oil supplies are threatened, but let tens of thousands of innocent people die per year in abject poverty under dictatorship law the inequality of the world is such that we have millions of innocent people dying over lack of food, clean water and daily needs, cant afford the very basics of life itself, but we ponder whether or not to give aid, the world is overpopulated by undereducated, downtrodden, undernourished, brainwashed people, who when they grow up, will think exactly like their peers, bombing, terrorism, racist wars. the solution is almost impossible to arrive at, who is wrong, the west and all its destructive war like ways with a desire to capture the planets riches at all costs even the very population itself, or the east who are very warlike but tread carefully on the planet leaving at least a planet that we as a people can still walk upon if you believe that we are the only ones (we being the western civilisation) then the solution is simple. nuke the lot of them women, men, children and start a "NEW WORLD ORDER" without the total desruction of all things "eastern" and the rise of a western culture throughout the world, then we are doomed to eternal battle, I do not condone this, as I am a beleiver that all will right itself in good time mankind will simply not get along with each other, if we are left with two people on the planet, they would end up fighting the grain that I am harvesting today ( I am told by the uplink) is bound for, you guessed it, the middle east, they still havent paid for the last two shipments of wheat or live exports we hold our hand out in freindship and they just keep biting it just the thoughts of a man sitting in a harvester with nothing more to occupy his mind other than moisture levels and gate pressures and flow rates

As the point has been made about sending vast amonuts of ex gratia CASH to the countries who secretly support terrorism in all it's forms I can't understand why we do it....Ok simplistically we should try and pull the Indonesian Government into 'line' by simply not supporting them. Sure a lot of innocents are going to get hurt without our aide but if we as a nation are serious about stopping terrorism then we have to take serious steps....
Call in the Indo ambasadore, tell him the truth, read him the riot act and then send him home with a message that until such times as the Indo Govt gets it's act together Indonesia is Persona non grata with Australia, that would take a leader of courage and poor Kev747 is to interested to find out how Obama want our troops deployed at the moment to worry about such things...
The "Bali" scene reminds me very much of Vietnam, everyone is friendly to your face and happy to take your money and provide you with anything you desire but behind the scenes you have these illiterate morons planning to kill Aussies because they think Aussies are Americans.
It's easy for us because we have the ability to think for ourselves these brainwashed Muslims can't think for themselves, I mean would any true blue Aussie shiela give up her kids to become suicide bombers?

yeah but I still beleive in what big old satchmo once said, and to quote the big feller, "WHAT A WONDERFULL WORLD, OHHHHH!!! YEAHHHHHH!!!" and I honestly beleive in that very statement,

Jeez, guys. So many excellent points you make. But you cover so much territory and go off on a number of tangents. Not meant as a criticism just an observation 'cause I wanted to take part in the discussion but found there were so many strands I had to sit back and catch my breath. First, I want to say that you all make excellent points and express so much of the things I feel. I truly wish we were sitting round the campfire, yeah drink in hand, gazing into the flames with the whole night ahead to discuss, to exchange ideas, to correct misconceptions, to laugh and to cry together. On the points you've discussed I'd like to say: The death penalty. You're either for it or agin it. No pussy footing. Regardless of whether it's in another country or in ours. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. I used to be opposed to it. Now, I am for it. What's left to decide is on what grounds is it valid. I do think that some people forfeit their right to live once they commit certain atrocities that they are likely to commit again. I am for the death penalty in the case of people who can be shown to be unable or unwilling to change their behaviour which kills or injures people or animals particularly in cruel or bizarre ways. (I include animals because I care about them and feel for them but I also believe that people who are cruel and brutal to animals are only doing so because they have not yet had the opportunity to take out their rage or impotence on a fellow human.) This would include serial killers and continual sexual offenders involving the death of their victims. I reckon that's enough for one post. Catch you later fellers.

love to be sitting around a fire discussing this and a hundred other things, my mind flys off in to tangents that very often surprises me, but it all ends up being connected at the end, your input is of course highly resepcted and encouraged just as we encourage others, we all have different views and different means of explaining those views, all are welcome but in the end we are all absolutely disgusted with the way the world is being run, I suggest we immediately overthrow the various governments and quickly install a ruling system based on the grey nomads way of life, I wish to put myself forward as "grand master, holder of the liquor supply vault key"