I would like the assistance of fellow Grey Nomads about the right way to operate our three way fridge prior to travelling.Do Irun it on 240 to cool down,12 volt while on the road,then either 240 or gas when camped.I realise that this a commonsense thing but I have had a few suggestion that did not ring true.Obviously if we have a powered site we will use 240.Arent you folks glad I dont work on Aircraft anymore.lolCheers Ibbo.
brickies said
01:53 PM Nov 29, 2008
Hi Martin i do the same thing ,but when i pull up for a break i turn the 12 volt off while i am stoped in case it flating the battery Brickie
Gary and Kerry said
02:06 PM Nov 29, 2008
I normally turn the fridge on 240 a couple of days before heading off, that way it is nice and cool. 12V will only maintain the temperature (depending on the ambient temp)not cool down. When we stop for longer than an hour or so I turn the gas on .
Basil Faulty said
05:15 PM Nov 29, 2008
Yeah.... you are correct.... I had a feeling you may be head of maintenance for Quantas recently Ibbo!
ibbo said
07:37 PM Nov 29, 2008
to Brickies and kenny,thanks for your info.cheers Ibbo.
ibbo said
08:26 PM Nov 29, 2008
Thanks for your info.cheers Ibbo.
Xtrail51 said
08:32 AM Nov 30, 2008
ibbo wrote:
I would like the assistance of fellow Grey Nomads about the right way to operate our three way fridge prior to travelling.Do Irun it on 240 to cool down,12 volt while on the road,then either 240 or gas when camped.I realise that this a commonsense thing but I have had a few suggestion that did not ring true.Obviously if we have a powered site we will use 240.Arent you folks glad I dont work on Aircraft anymore.lolCheers Ibbo.
You are right, but an isolation switch on vehicle is good, so when you switch off motor, fridge is not draining car battery. Easy to forget to turn fridge off on short stops. cheers
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:23 AM Nov 30, 2008
Just notethat it is illegal (and dangerous) to refuel a vehicle with a fridge running on gas,or with a gas pilot light running.
At home - 240V
On the road - 12V
Parked up without power - Gas
Met a guy recently who had a ****roach problem in his caravan. Set off an insect killing 'bomb' to wipe them out. Because the van was pretty big, set off a second one.
The resulting explosion blew all the windows out of the van and left him with extensive burns (luckily not too serious).
He had forgotten to turn the gas fridge off.
Cheers,
Peter
Cupie said
09:49 PM Nov 30, 2008
G'day ibbo ...
I run my fridge on 240V for at least 3 days B4 heading off. In that time I check that it works on both gas & 240v.
I stock the fridge with pre cooled/frozen stuff at least overnight before leaving.
Any spare space in both the fridge & freezer sections is filled with small plastic bottles of frozen water. On long trips I re-freeze them in the camp kitchen fridge at Caravan Parks (good sources of cold water on hot days too). A friend says that he uses rolls of bubble wrap to take up unused space. The idea here is that when you open the fridge the cold air doesn't tumble out, which reduces the recovery time of the relatively inefficient absorption type fridges commonly used.
240v when possible. 12v when travelling - via accessory switch/relay or motion switch. Gas when stationary - even for morning tea.
(I have been known to use gas when traveling in the far north .. risky & illegal)
Of course all of the important stuff is in the engel!
I have installed an indoor outdoor thermometer with a sender in the fridge that gives me an invaluable indicator of the fridge temperature.
Hope that this is of interest.
twobob said
10:11 PM Nov 30, 2008
may be a little side issue here, but I believe it is relevant
In general, cold goods need to be kept below 5 degree's. They may stray from this for a max of 4 hours (total time), before eaten or thrown out
Frozen goods, need to be hard, or the above applies and not re frozen.
A fridge should meet its temp, frozen or cold, within a couple of hours
A fully stocked fridge, is better than a half stocked one for efficiency. The risk with that is only if the fridge is Dodgey. Soo, if you have space, pack it with water bags, making cold water or ice.
Gas should ONLY be used, when camped, and you know it is in operation. Dangerous stuff, if mis understood.
My twobobs worth
ibbo said
06:17 AM Dec 1, 2008
Thank you for your reply.I will follow your suggestions.They are very helpful.Cheers Ibbo.
brickies said
07:30 AM Dec 1, 2008
T rated fridge is important when buying a caravan .i was told about this when buying my van and pleased i took notice i have had no problem keeps icecream prefect when on 12 volt while traveling most people have trouble northern australia with fridges ,when buying a caravan remember to do your homework do a google search on T RATED FRIDGES
Cupie said
08:29 AM Dec 1, 2008
G'day all ..
I agree with all of the preceeding comments about use of gas, filling empty space, Tropical rated absorption fridges, food temperature, etc.
Given the poor performance of my T rated fridge on a touring trip thru the top end, I researched the subject of van fridges extensively. On that trip I was travelling almost every second day (too much on the road some would rightly say - our new traveling 'rules' has fixed that).
I found that a major contributor was the poor installation in many vans .. eg -
- Not insulated round the sides/top of the fridges. This allows pockets of hot air to form
-Top air vent too low (should be above the top of the fridge)
- No guide to assist a smooth air flow to exit via the top vent
- Air gap between the fridge & van wall too wide. The air flowed along the van wall & not over the fridge coils etc. This is a key issue. A couple of baffles coming within 10mm of the top & bottom of the rear of the fridge fixes this.
- Computer fans placed at the bottom blowing air. Work best if placed at the top gently sucking air through.
Of course the way you position the van on site has a major effect with afternoon sun on the fridge side effecting performance. Use of shade cloth assists.
The size of wire from the vehicle to the fridge & poor connectors is a common problem for 12v operation
We could go on & on about Van fridges. There are some good reference web sites about, with most offering sound info.
brickies said
10:21 AM Dec 1, 2008
Thanks Cupie for your update you are spot on i also have an anderson plug /switch which i was told is a big help when useing 12 volt you may more about that than me
Cupie said
11:44 AM Dec 1, 2008
Hi brickies ..
I think this is how it works ...
The Andersen plug lead is usually used charge the van battery when driving.
The fridge when driving & switched to DC is powered via terminal 2 of the round or flat trailer socket/plug. It is this wire size that is critical .. I think that it should usually be ISO 6 gauge.
(I think that I should have a close look at the issue of the output of the charging van battery to see if it is in parallel with the terminal 2 lead - I think not .. maybe others more expert than I might like to comment)
-- Edited by Cupie at 10:45, 2008-12-01
Basil Faulty said
07:54 PM Dec 1, 2008
I reckon your observations with fridges are spot on Cupie. In my new Gin Palace there is a 12 pin plug with 5 large pins to carry the amps for battery charging and the fridge. I used wire from DSE very heavy, multi strand stuff Cat No. W2302
Rating: 50V DC, 50A maximum Conductors: 630 x 0.12mm Conductor material: OFC (oxygen free copper) Conductor area: 7.1mm² Sheath: 6.5mm Outside Diameter, high flexible PVC Colour: Red Other available colour: Black
I can't see any reason to use a higher rated wire than this, 50 amps is a lot of current if you consider most alternators can put out around 75 max.... Also I use a solar powered fridge fan that sucks air out of the space behind the fridge at the top, I think I posted some pics somewhere of it and that makes a hell of a difference.
Cupie said
10:10 AM Dec 2, 2008
Cupie wrote:
(I think that I should have a close look at the issue of the output of the charging van battery to see if it is in parallel with the terminal 2 lead - I think not .. maybe others more expert than I might like to comment)
This worried me so I got out my trusty meter & checked ....
With the fridge on DC & no connection to the vehicle there is no 12V at the fridge DC element. So as I suspected the van battery is not switched to the fridge (at least on my 99 Jayco).
However, if U look at the circuit, -
. When the fridge is switched to DC, and
. with both the trailer plug & Anderson plug connected and
. with the vehicle ignition on (or switched to 'Accesories')
Then the both batteries are in parallel. This is largely academic with respect to the fridge as its operating current is supplied only via terminal 2 of the trailer plug. So that wire size is critical for efficient fridge operation.
Wire Size ..
My fridge documents confirm that the wiring from the vehicle battery via terminal 2, minimum size is -
. 4(square)mm for up to 5m length &
. 6(square)mm to 8m
(this is cross sectional area of wire)
Basil Faulty said
11:06 AM Dec 2, 2008
You will find that there is an isolating diode in the van somewhere to stop the van battery trying to provide current to start the vehicle. Usually there is a system of voltage regulation to make sure the van battery is not overcharged by unlimited current. So while it is strictly speaking being charged in parrallel it is not connected in parrallel... Check the charging voltage; check the voltage on the van battery connected to the car, engine not running. then start the engine and measure the voltage again and it should be at around 14-15 volts, also check the dc at the fridge if you can get to it and it should also be at around 12 when connected but rise to the same voltage as the batteries when the vehicle is charging them. In the Coromal I have a charger with switches that allow me to set parameters for charging the Van battery.
Cupie said
02:18 PM Dec 2, 2008
Basil Faulty wrote:
You will find that there is an isolating diode in the van somewhere to stop the van battery trying to provide current to start the vehicle. Usually there is a system of voltage regulation to make sure the van battery is not overcharged by unlimited current. So while it is strictly speaking being charged in parrallel it is not connected in parrallel...
Thanks Basil ... what U say sounds logical ... so I went & had a look and there is a whopping great diode & heat sink in what looks like the battery leg from the anderson plug. I have a mysterious Mexican made Centurion 'Switching Power Converter' which of course comes with no real information. I suspect that it also has some sort of smart charge functionality. At home, it keeps my van battery on float charge 24/7.
In my case it is all rather academic as I don't use the anderson plug facility. I almost never bush camp & the van battery is charged at the van park .. if I happen to use it to operate the waterpump when stopped for lunch etc. If I become a bush camper than I'll probably wire in the anderson plug to charge a replacement van battery when traveling. I'm about to use the van battery (in its first real use) on a trial of an electric motor on my latest toy, a Viking Tempo Fisherman kayak .. given that the battery is around 9 years old, I don't expect too much from it but it went OK in a wheely bin of water.
ps. Wouldn't it be nice if the van came with a wiring diagram.
mike and Judy said
06:19 PM Dec 2, 2008
Was in the bush at Fullarton river with the temp around 38 for 3 days, I have 2x 95 amp hours batterey and didnt flatten them as I had the help of a 80 watt solar panel, putting in an average of 5 amps per hour, running on gas the frig struggeled with the temp so have fitted 2x small 4inch fans in the back, to move the air across the cooling pipes in the back, in the alice was in the Harts range under similar conditions for a week, with very good coldies at the end of the day, running on gas plus the fans did the trick, only use 12volt on the move, and 240volt in a c/park,
Mike and Judy
enjoy your sunrises
clazandaza said
09:32 PM Dec 2, 2008
I have an old Electrolux three way fridge in our van. Could do with a new seal on the door. Almost had a cry when told that I could not buy a new seal, I had to purchase the entire door skin which has the seal built in. All to a cost of $350 ex Brisbane and $380 ex Cairns.
On second examination the old seal is working just fine and dandy.
Ian and Pauline
dave06 said
10:48 AM Dec 6, 2008
what you must watch with the old electrolux fridges is the twisted door effect, they tend to "warp" thus letting the cold air escape, run it for a couple of days before the trip on 240, fill it when it is cold enough, swich to 12 when traveling, gas when camped, place a note on the dash on a pre startup check list and add, switch fridge to 12 volt before taking off, we all should have a pre trip check list
I run my fridge on 240V for at least 3 days B4 heading off. In that time I check that it works on both gas & 240v.
I stock the fridge with pre cooled/frozen stuff at least overnight before leaving.
Any spare space in both the fridge & freezer sections is filled with small plastic bottles of frozen water. On long trips I re-freeze them in the camp kitchen fridge at Caravan Parks (good sources of cold water on hot days too). A friend says that he uses rolls of bubble wrap to take up unused space. The idea here is that when you open the fridge the cold air doesn't tumble out, which reduces the recovery time of the relatively inefficient absorption type fridges commonly used.
240v when possible.
12v when travelling - via accessory switch/relay or motion switch.
Gas when stationary - even for morning tea.
(I have been known to use gas when traveling in the far north .. risky & illegal)
Of course all of the important stuff is in the engel!
I have installed an indoor outdoor thermometer with a sender in the fridge that gives me an invaluable indicator of the fridge temperature.
Hope that this is of interest.
In general, cold goods need to be kept below 5 degree's. They may stray from this for a max of 4 hours (total time), before eaten or thrown out
Frozen goods, need to be hard, or the above applies and not re frozen.
A fridge should meet its temp, frozen or cold, within a couple of hours
A fully stocked fridge, is better than a half stocked one for efficiency. The risk with that is only if the fridge is Dodgey. Soo, if you have space, pack it with water bags, making cold water or ice.
Gas should ONLY be used, when camped, and you know it is in operation. Dangerous stuff, if mis understood.
My twobobs worth
I agree with all of the preceeding comments about use of gas, filling empty space, Tropical rated absorption fridges, food temperature, etc.
Given the poor performance of my T rated fridge on a touring trip thru the top end, I researched the subject of van fridges extensively. On that trip I was travelling almost every second day (too much on the road some would rightly say - our new traveling 'rules' has fixed that).
I found that a major contributor was the poor installation in many vans .. eg -
- Not insulated round the sides/top of the fridges. This allows pockets of hot air to form
-Top air vent too low (should be above the top of the fridge)
- No guide to assist a smooth air flow to exit via the top vent
- Air gap between the fridge & van wall too wide. The air flowed along the van wall & not over the fridge coils etc. This is a key issue. A couple of baffles coming within 10mm of the top & bottom of the rear of the fridge fixes this.
- Computer fans placed at the bottom blowing air. Work best if placed at the top gently sucking air through.
Of course the way you position the van on site has a major effect with afternoon sun on the fridge side effecting performance. Use of shade cloth assists.
The size of wire from the vehicle to the fridge & poor connectors is a common problem for 12v operation
We could go on & on about Van fridges. There are some good reference web sites about, with most offering sound info.
Hi brickies ..
I think this is how it works ...
The Andersen plug lead is usually used charge the van battery when driving.
The fridge when driving & switched to DC is powered via terminal 2 of the round or flat trailer socket/plug. It is this wire size that is critical .. I think that it should usually be ISO 6 gauge.
(I think that I should have a close look at the issue of the output of the charging van battery to see if it is in parallel with the terminal 2 lead - I think not .. maybe others more expert than I might like to comment)
-- Edited by Cupie at 10:45, 2008-12-01
Rating: 50V DC, 50A maximum Conductors: 630 x 0.12mm Conductor material: OFC (oxygen free copper) Conductor area: 7.1mm² Sheath: 6.5mm Outside Diameter, high flexible PVC Colour: Red Other available colour: Black
I can't see any reason to use a higher rated wire than this, 50 amps is a lot of current if you consider most alternators can put out around 75 max....
Also I use a solar powered fridge fan that sucks air out of the space behind the fridge at the top, I think I posted some pics somewhere of it and that makes a hell of a difference.
With the fridge on DC & no connection to the vehicle there is no 12V at the fridge DC element. So as I suspected the van battery is not switched to the fridge (at least on my 99 Jayco).
However, if U look at the circuit, -
. When the fridge is switched to DC, and
. with both the trailer plug & Anderson plug connected and
. with the vehicle ignition on (or switched to 'Accesories')
Then the both batteries are in parallel. This is largely academic with respect to the fridge as its operating current is supplied only via terminal 2 of the trailer plug. So that wire size is critical for efficient fridge operation.
Wire Size ..
My fridge documents confirm that the wiring from the vehicle battery via terminal 2, minimum size is -
. 4(square)mm for up to 5m length &
. 6(square)mm to 8m
(this is cross sectional area of wire)
Check the charging voltage; check the voltage on the van battery connected to the car, engine not running. then start the engine and measure the voltage again and it should be at around 14-15 volts, also check the dc at the fridge if you can get to it and it should also be at around 12 when connected but rise to the same voltage as the batteries when the vehicle is charging them.
In the Coromal I have a charger with switches that allow me to set parameters for charging the Van battery.
In my case it is all rather academic as I don't use the anderson plug facility. I almost never bush camp & the van battery is charged at the van park .. if I happen to use it to operate the waterpump when stopped for lunch etc. If I become a bush camper than I'll probably wire in the anderson plug to charge a replacement van battery when traveling.
I'm about to use the van battery (in its first real use) on a trial of an electric motor on my latest toy, a Viking Tempo Fisherman kayak .. given that the battery is around 9 years old, I don't expect too much from it but it went OK in a wheely bin of water.
ps. Wouldn't it be nice if the van came with a wiring diagram.
On second examination the old seal is working just fine and dandy.
Ian and Pauline