We're about to purchase a 2005 Ford Territory Automatic V6 to tow a Jayco 21ft solid van. The towing capacity is 2300kg and the van is around 2000kg tare weight. We've been assured it will be adequate for towing the van but some on-line automotive reviews claim that Ford Territories aren't the most economical medium SUVs and a Toyota dealer claimed their fuel consumption almost doubles when towing caravans. Of course he was trying to convince us to buy a 2003 turbo-charged diesel Toyota Prado rather than a Territory!!
If anyone out their is using a Territory for towing or has used one, we would appreciate some honest, reliable feedback.
Cheers - Brian & Sue
rocan said
09:28 AM Jan 3, 2009
we have a 07 territory rwd and tow a 16ft pop top with no problems.the van weighs about 1500kg loaded.we have done about 16000k towing the van and have no complaints.petrol consumption is no different than towing with a petrol 4wd.on the highway you forget the van is behind you. the only drawback is the small fuel tank . not towing we average about 700k to the tank,towing about 380k,depending on the wind.would probably be less with a heavier van.in nth qld you don't see many territorys towing but when we travelled to the southern states they were quiet common.we are now looking for a larger and bit heavier van but would not be changing the territory.
all depends on personal preference and if you're going off road,or if you want the extra expense of buying a 4wd.
hope this helps
rocan
rocan said
09:31 AM Jan 3, 2009
didn't think ford put out a v6 territory rocan
dave06 said
10:15 AM Jan 3, 2009
ford will be releasing a v6 this year, as yet they do not produce a v6 only an old fashioned in line, if it is a v6 then the motor is not a ford engine, it will be a rebadged something else which is very common, ford and nissan often swap
your tow weight and the van weight are far too close for my liking, once you fill up the water tank (100 lites = 100 kilograms) you are down to 200 kilos difference, chuck in some clothes and bedding plus a few trinkets and I think you are pushing it to the limit
if you are halving your economy then the vehicle is working too hard, if it was me, and it is not, I would look at something else, maybe a toyota or nissan, a good average difference in towing and not towing fuel economy would be an expected 25% - 30% unless it is constant winds or very hilly or speed higher than 90 kms, any greater average than that and the vehicle is working too hard
if you buy the ford auto, check to see it has a transmission oil cooler and the fluid is not run through the radiator, check the rear suspension is up to it, fords are reknown bum draggers, install a haymen reese tow pack, the ford drawbars would not pull a wet sack across a sand dune
if it was me, and it is not, I would buy the prado, not because of what the dealer said but from what I know, which is more than I will let on in the forum
buy once, buy properly, no regrets!!!
therefore ATM = ball weight+weight on tyres+payload is 2334Kg
(GTM=payload & weight on wheels is 2111Kg & Tare Mass = weight on wheels + ball weight is 1934Kg)
This puts it close to your Territory's 2300 capacity ... Your 21' van is probably a bit lighter than mine ... might be worthwile putting it on a weighbridge.
The 400kg payload is easily exceeded if you are not careful, especially when you have full water tanks & gas bottles.
Also my van (standard layout with front kitchen) has a heavy ball weight of 271kg against the rated 223kg. What can the territory support?
I pull mine easily with an an ageing '95 4.2EFI Patrol (the numbers above are well within its rated capacities) and get overall trip consumption of 19L/100k. This includes both towing & non towing. As you no doubt know, towing consumption varies widely according to factors such as wind, road conditions (up, down, bumpy, freeway etc) and of course speed. My towing at 85 to 95km/hr usage varies roughly between 20L/100km & the worst 25L/100km. For interest, the patrol no load fuel use is 15L/100k highway & 17L/100k city.
Sorry that I can't tell you anything about the Territory & certainly wouldn't advise purchasing an ageing Patrol! but maybe you could check on the actual weights of you rig if you haven't already done so.
PS .. I think Dave said the same as me but posted his reply a few minitues earlier.
-- Edited by Cupie at 09:41, 2009-01-03
Smokeydk said
12:01 PM Jan 3, 2009
We been looking at the Ford Territory too.....a Nissan dealer suggested a X-Trail 2.5lt petrol in preference to the diesal..I cant get my head around the idea of a 2.5lt engine verses a 4.0ltr one...I know my Ford AU struggles at times towing my CT up hills....how can a engine half size do better?
the main thing I'm look'n for is extra ground clearence...the AU crunched nastly over the spead humps the CP had.
Dave
Basil Faulty said
12:40 PM Jan 3, 2009
Would it be pointless advocating you get a KIA Sorento CRDi, 5 year warranty cheaper to run than the Territory and has more power than a speeding locomotive....
dave06 said
02:14 PM Jan 3, 2009
its all in the gearing Dave, 2 - 300 rpm does not sound much, but it is the difference between getting up that hill in overdrive and getting up there in fourth, the split gears on the bosses kenworth are roughly 250 - 300 rpm apart and thats all it takes
your au would cruise effortlessly at 110 sitting on about 2250 rpm or thereabouts, the same speed with a four cyl would be possibly 2300 - 2400 rpm the extra revs get the job done, the bore stroke also comes into it, the longer the stroke and greater the bore then the greater the torque but lower the revs, and also the shorter the stroke the faster she will "recover"
little blue weighs in at roughly 2000 kilos or two tonne (shes a fatty) and yet she is dragged along with little more than a lawn mower engine, 1.8 litre petrol, with the five speed she cruises easily on 100 kph, but if a butterfly crosses our path then I'm looking for fourth, and with sqeeky behind then I'm dragged back more, it doesnt bother me, I set a schedule and if it means getting up an hour earlier so be it
Bridgee said
02:27 PM Jan 3, 2009
Thank you everybody for your most thoughtful, constructive advice and input. We'll check out all the relevant facts and figures (thanks Cupie)before making a decision. I guess the biggest thing that will sway us is the price - for vehicles under 5 years old the Territory seems to be the cheapest price of suitable towing vehicles in our price range. As far as fuel consumption goes I guess the cost of any extra fuel will be cancelled out by the drop in fuel prices.
We don't really want to buy a new vehicle, our current vehicle (Ford Escape) cost us $32,000 in 2006, and we've been offered $12000 - $15000 trade in - less than half the purchase price and it's still under new car warranty!!
Basil, we'd love to a Kia Sorrento, but then the standard and size of the caravan, and the length of our trip would be reduced because it all comes down to a financial balancing act. After purchasing a capable towing vehicle and a fairly modern van we need to be left with a reasonable ammount of dollars in the bank to fund the trip....... there's only so much baked beans on toast you can eat!!
And Davo and Rocan you're right, they don't have a V6, it's an inline 6, sorry -got confused after a long week of car hunting.
Yes, Dave (Smokeydk), I have also wondered about the X-Trail - the motor does seem a bit light on although I belieive their are members of this site towing quite a reasonable sized van with X-Trails. We had a Patrol for 7 years and the X-Trails seem just as versatile and reliable.
Brian & Sue
Wombat 280 said
03:30 PM Jan 3, 2009
You can tow anything with anything the question is for how long can you tow it. Go 6 cyl and diesel , get the biggest tow weight you can just in case you load it up with crap along the way. Those Toyota's take some beating for pure grunt and work off the black top even if it's only on your drive way . Found the Fords 4wd more suited to estate work, like the Landrover Discovery looks good But! not a patch on the Defender.
Sorry davo, must have to disagree with the Prado choice, have a friend who has HAD one anfd experienced the horror or its towin capibilities pulling a 2 tonne van,the best of the toyoto 4wd was the 80s series, the 100s were too heavy for the same power output, may I suggest that you look at the power to weight shift before you make any discision, the towing unit must be at least 1/4 the weight again, of the trailer I use an old GQ nissan (2 tonnes)for the last nine years, towing a van of 1250 k, had not a spot of hassle in some very heavy going
dave06 said
04:24 PM Jan 4, 2009
no worries Mike if its got the toyota badge then to me it's already in the correct paddock,
we towed with an old nissan for a few years and while it was heavy on fuel the pulling power was never in question reliability was a1 as well
the presented choice was a ford (boo!! hisss!!!) or toyota (yay!!!) I simply chose the toyota not the model, now you may mistakenly think that I am a little biased toward toyota well you'd be wrong, I am very biased toward the toyota
we have taken little blue all over and around australia for in excess of 200,000 kilometres after a full rebuild at 50,000 kms and not once has she let us down not even a fanbelt, now I know that comes back to maintenence but hell thats reliability in there as well, you talk of hard yakka well little blue weighs in at 2,000 kilos (little fatty) and she's pulled by a 1.8 ltr motor, she gets a little bit puffed by the top of some hills but by hell she will still tackle them
the 80 series was a very good truck if a little agricultural, but once the owner dropped in the farey overdrive it made a huge difference simply by dropping the revs it made for better economy and a much quieter ride
Bridgee said
05:53 PM Jan 4, 2009
Thanks everyone for your feedback.
Basil, I must admit the Kia Sorento has quite impressive features and seems to tick all the boxes when it comes to it's towing capacity. However I spent 25 years in the automotive industry where I constantly bagged Korean vehicles (mainly thanks to the early Hyundais - used to call them "Speed Humps for Nissan Patrols"!) so how can I live with my friends and conscience if we end up buying a Korean car???? ha ha .......... Made in China to make matters worse!!
But then again when I bought a Mazda in 1972 I was ridiculed for driving Jap crap but it had much more "fruit" than Aussie cars, lasted 10 years without breaking down and by the late 70's Japanese cars had a reputation for building excellent, reliable vehicles with standard features that Aussie cars hadn't even thought of at the time.
So maybe it's time I look at Korean cars with an open mind and considered a Kia on it's merit.
Mike - our previous vehicle was a GQ Patrol - petrol with gas conversion, had it for 10 years, reliable, gutsy for towing but I've got to consider Sue, driving it around town when our caravaning trip is over. She reckoned the Patrol was like driving a truck, hard to park, poor turning circle, she is only 5'4" and just about needed a step ladder to climb in it, even though it has side steps. She also says her arms muscles started bulging after driving it even though it had power steering. Thankfully the only thing it didn't do to her was to put hairs on her chest!!!
Bridgee said
07:38 PM Jan 4, 2009
dave06 wrote:
the presented choice was a ford (boo!! hisss!!!) or toyota (yay!!!) I simply chose the toyota not the model, now you may mistakenly think that I am a little biased toward toyota well you'd be wrong, I am very biased toward the toyota
Can't blame you for being biased towards Toyota Dave. I'd have to say after 25 years in the auto game Toyota was probably number one over all for reliability, durability, availability of parts etc, Nissan second then Holdens & Fords equal third.
-- Edited by Bridgee at 18:39, 2009-01-04
Bridgee said
07:55 PM Jan 4, 2009
Basil, I'm not sure how highly you regard Jeremy Clarkson of UK's Top Gear TV show, but to say he was less than impressed with Kia Sorento's is an understatement!
If you click on the link below he starts talking about Monty Python's "Dead Parrot" sketch then scroll down the page.........
Doesnt matter what I get....the problem is I dont fit into many cars..etc.....I'm 6'5" tall and most 4x4s are short on leg space for me..including all toyota's...mitsubishi..holden...I had a look at the kia tuscan.yesterday and couldnt get my legs in the door while sitting in drivers seat....the seat was fully back.. tilted and steering wheel raised..the X-Trail had room.but as Bazil said it was front wheel drive unless it was put in Auto mode.then rears kicked in.
I like the Nissan Pathfinder.....but why cant you get a 5 seater instead of a 7.....
The Prado I saw was a 3lt ..4 cylinder..
I guess I just have to keep looking
Dave
dave06 said
11:40 AM Jan 5, 2009
the bottom line is that all the above vehicles are good in their own right, I dont agree with the not towing with front wheel drive there is no documented proof to say they are worse than rear wheel drive as long as you stay within towing constraints the same as any vehicle, we will be taking our Mitsubishi magna v6 front wheel drive up to Uluru and the Alice towing a camper trailer and I envisage no problems, haven't had any yet hauling two tonne trailer loads of broken concrete out to the landfill site
however if I was about to trek off into the wilds for a non specific time then the choice would have to be the big four, holden, ford, Toyota or Nissan simply because of parts availability up north, out of these the next question that MUST be answered TRUTHFULLY is where do you intend to travel
given the size of van stated above and you may wish to "explore a little" then it could possibly be broken down to two, Toyota or Nissan 4wd, given the previous references by other posters and my experience with both the jackaroo and the territory type holden and ford 4wd I would steer away from these two as well as the kia, not sure of parts availability
my next problem would be "can I fix it" if it does a fan belt/radiator hose can you get to it, can you service it yourself, given that most workshops are now in excess of $100 per hour and a lot more up north it very quickly becomes an expensive affair for a minor problem and a death sentence in isolation, the modern vehicle is DESIGNED to not have the backyard mechanic touch it, so an older model is what I would choose
out of the two (Nissan and Toyota) I lean towards the Toyota simply because I have one and am fully aware of their reliability and parts availability and to be able to work on it myself also just a quick drive north of port Augusta off the blacktop will show Toyota's ten to one, from this deductive reasoning the next choice is model, tow capability's coupled with monetary availability will tell you this answer,
all answers must be attacked TRUTHFULLY, dont go in with stars in your eyes or you will quickly fail
Basil Faulty said
02:47 PM Jan 5, 2009
Bridgee wrote:
Basil, I'm not sure how highly you regard Jeremy Clarkson of UK's Top Gear TV show, but to say he was less than impressed with Kia Sorento's is an understatement!
If you click on the link below he starts talking about Monty Python's "Dead Parrot" sketch then scroll down the page.........
The thing with Clarkson is it is a case of the man who cried wolf....
Yes you're probably right Basil, sometimes Clarkson seems to compare the performance of vehicles with Formula 1 racing cars - he seems to focus too much on how quickly they take to get from 0 to 100mph.
As for the video on caravanning it appears to have been removed due to unauthorised use...... I bet it was fairly humourous.
The thing with Clarkson is it is a case of the man who cried wolf....
Yes you're probably right Basil, sometimes Clarkson seems to compare the performance of vehicles with Formula 1 racing cars - he seems to focus too much on how quickly they take to get from 0 to 100mph.
As for the video on caravanning it appears to have been removed due to unauthorised use...... I bet it was fairly humourous.
OH DEAR unauthorised use..... Yes though as it goes on it does become apparent that is is staged, but a good laugh.... I have noticed that on Top Gear, the poms for whatever reason seem to have to accelerate to 100MPH so that they can be involved in a 472 car rear ender on the M1 in thick fog..... I have pondered that for years, why buy a car that has a top speed of 200km/h plus if you cant drive that fast anyway? Especially in the British Isles where most of the exciting roads are sealed single lane roads....
If anyone out their is using a Territory for towing or has used one, we would appreciate some honest, reliable feedback.
Cheers - Brian & Sue
rocan
My 21'6" Jayco weights are
- Rated ball weight 223
- Weight on wheels 1711
- Rated payload 400
therefore ATM = ball weight+weight on tyres+payload is 2334Kg
(GTM=payload & weight on wheels is 2111Kg &
Tare Mass = weight on wheels + ball weight is 1934Kg)
This puts it close to your Territory's 2300 capacity ... Your 21' van is probably a bit lighter than mine ... might be worthwile putting it on a weighbridge.
The 400kg payload is easily exceeded if you are not careful, especially when you have full water tanks & gas bottles.
Also my van (standard layout with front kitchen) has a heavy ball weight of 271kg against the rated 223kg. What can the territory support?
I pull mine easily with an an ageing '95 4.2EFI Patrol (the numbers above are well within its rated capacities) and get overall trip consumption of 19L/100k. This includes both towing & non towing. As you no doubt know, towing consumption varies widely according to factors such as wind, road conditions (up, down, bumpy, freeway etc) and of course speed. My towing at 85 to 95km/hr usage varies roughly between 20L/100km & the worst 25L/100km.
For interest, the patrol no load fuel use is 15L/100k highway & 17L/100k city.
Sorry that I can't tell you anything about the Territory & certainly wouldn't advise purchasing an ageing Patrol! but maybe you could check on the actual weights of you rig if you haven't already done so.
PS .. I think Dave said the same as me but posted his reply a few minitues earlier.
-- Edited by Cupie at 09:41, 2009-01-03
We don't really want to buy a new vehicle, our current vehicle (Ford Escape) cost us $32,000 in 2006, and we've been offered $12000 - $15000 trade in - less than half the purchase price and it's still under new car warranty!!
Basil, we'd love to a Kia Sorrento, but then the standard and size of the caravan, and the length of our trip would be reduced because it all comes down to a financial balancing act. After purchasing a capable towing vehicle and a fairly modern van we need to be left with a reasonable ammount of dollars in the bank to fund the trip....... there's only so much baked beans on toast you can eat!!
And Davo and Rocan you're right, they don't have a V6, it's an inline 6, sorry -got confused after a long week of car hunting.
Yes, Dave (Smokeydk), I have also wondered about the X-Trail - the motor does seem a bit light on although I belieive their are members of this site towing quite a reasonable sized van with X-Trails. We had a Patrol for 7 years and the X-Trails seem just as versatile and reliable.
Brian & Sue
I just had a look at 2nd hand Kia's
http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/KIA/SORENTO/private-results.aspx?N=4294964895+0+1216+834+285+257+4294964836&Make=KIA&state_id=0&Model=SORENTO&distance=25&State=All%20States
Don't they hold their value, but only till I trade mine in though......
may I suggest that you look at the power to weight shift before you make any discision, the towing unit must be at least 1/4 the weight again, of the trailer
I use an old GQ nissan (2 tonnes)for the last nine years, towing a van of 1250 k, had not a spot of hassle in some very heavy going
Basil, I must admit the Kia Sorento has quite impressive features and seems to tick all the boxes when it comes to it's towing capacity. However I spent 25 years in the automotive industry where I constantly bagged Korean vehicles (mainly thanks to the early Hyundais - used to call them "Speed Humps for Nissan Patrols"!) so how can I live with my friends and conscience if we end up buying a Korean car???? ha ha .......... Made in China to make matters worse!!
But then again when I bought a Mazda in 1972 I was ridiculed for driving Jap crap but it had much more "fruit" than Aussie cars, lasted 10 years without breaking down and by the late 70's Japanese cars had a reputation for building excellent, reliable vehicles with standard features that Aussie cars hadn't even thought of at the time.
So maybe it's time I look at Korean cars with an open mind and considered a Kia on it's merit.
Mike - our previous vehicle was a GQ Patrol - petrol with gas conversion, had it for 10 years, reliable, gutsy for towing but I've got to consider Sue, driving it around town when our caravaning trip is over. She reckoned the Patrol was like driving a truck, hard to park, poor turning circle, she is only 5'4" and just about needed a step ladder to climb in it, even though it has side steps. She also says her arms muscles started bulging after driving it even though it had power steering. Thankfully the only thing it didn't do to her was to put hairs on her chest!!!
-- Edited by Bridgee at 18:39, 2009-01-04
If you click on the link below he starts talking about Monty Python's "Dead Parrot" sketch then scroll down the page.........
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article1116712.ece
The thing with Clarkson is it is a case of the man who cried wolf....
As for the video on caravanning it appears to have been removed due to
unauthorised use...... I bet it was fairly humourous.
I have noticed that on Top Gear, the poms for whatever reason seem to have to accelerate to 100MPH so that they can be involved in a 472 car rear ender on the M1 in thick fog.....
I have pondered that for years, why buy a car that has a top speed of 200km/h plus if you cant drive that fast anyway? Especially in the British Isles where most of the exciting roads are sealed single lane roads....