Lets hear your thoughts. I think Milat and the arsonists have the pollies talking about it......

As a firey...I thought many times of how to deal with arsonists..like tie them to a tree and burn the paddock..I guess..thinking that.. only brings Me down to their level...

requarding those who kill/murder....they gave up their rights to live when they planned and took another life ....I dont believe they should take up jail space for years..like they do in USA..on death row....they should be deleted.soon after sentencing....ofcourse....the arguement will be....what happens if after death..they were found to been innocent.sure....thats an other story.....

I agree with dave.....gotta be a better world with-out the scum

Dave

I'm staying out of this one for fear of the forum thought police grabbing ya if only for  daring to profess laterally thinking.



-- Edited by Wombat 280 at 20:17, 2009-02-25

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Saves on Tax payers money to keep them in their luxurious life style in prison.

Time things changed.   WAKE up Australia.   Fire Bugs cannot be rehabilitated nor can Paedophiles.   If they are castrated they will use implements instead.   Clinical FACT. 

I think its a Fantastic move, but lets face it, it will never happen whilst the do gooders have their say.  The minority will always win.

Oh well Basil, good topic for a discussion point of view and thats about it.

Take care and stay well.

There should be no age limit also, the paents of children should also be examined, fancy giving an 11 year old boy a shotgun for his birthday, and all the shootings in the schools by juvenials, there is definatly something wrong with this world and I think the do-gooders have a lot to answer for

    G,DAY

Well what a subject  i can see the do gooders nuff nuffin over this one, jeez just like  Davo i had a bad childhood   bloody hand mower after school  blisters blisters, no mower no billycart, forever damaged.   mum chased me up the oak tree for just setting fire to the cats tail. so u can see i am damaged .  im all for the biggest prce anyone can pay,  well i dont think we will ever see death penalty return so my idea i feel is a good one,  there is plenty of desert out wommera way   build a new jail for the marat type people    bugger and forget the airconditioned cells   damm no telle no phones.    damm stop drongo ya fool ,no one will ever do it  and i gotta stop talking to my self,  blame that damm mower. 

as a matter of interest, what are the statistics relating to the number of times someone who has received the death penalty, reoffended ? hmmm. John

dave
if i offened you or any one else on here with my reply  i sincerely apologise. there was no malice intended.
regards
al
-- Edited by al at 09:10, 2009-02-26

-- Edited by al at 20:19, 2009-02-26

Hate to be a curmudgeon but:-

a) talking about it won't make any changes to our system of justice;

b) this attitude brings us down to the level of the offenders;

c) to be consistent, you would have to go the whole way and bring back the burning of witches, the branding of adultresses on their foreheads, the abandoning of sickly infants for the wolves, extracting confessions by torture and trial by ordeal; and

d) IMHO this sort of discussion doesn't have a place in this sort of forum.

We all have our opinions (and you know what they say about opinions - they're like R-zoles - everybody's got one and they're usually full of s**t) but I am sure that we have got a lot better things to discuss than such a depressing and divisive subject.

-- Edited by Mike47 at 09:26, 2009-02-26

OK, so the do gooders on this forum are at it again, god bless their little souls. 

Have had 1st hand experience with rehabilitated murders who have re offended.

eg  One so called scum bag, a few years back comitted murder by axing to death his girlfriend and her  father because the father stopped him from seeing his daughter.  (and rightly so)      As a result the offender took a sharp axe to the father and the daughter and murdered both of them.  At the time the offender was 19 years of age and stated if he could not have her then no one could.  A very deliberate and  shocking double murder.

No death penalty (of course) and he was sentenced to life, meaning 20 years.  The father and daughter who were now deceased received the death penalty at the hands of the offender.

After 20 years, the offender was said to have been rehabiltated and released from Jail (as he had served his time) and placed in the community for his and their good as he would be a valuable asset.  He was now 39 years old.

Some 6 Months after being released, this mongreal, formed a relationship with a young woman who had 5 children and was living with her mother at the time. 
The woman broke off the relationship due to the violent nature of the offender.  He would not accept this fact and late one night smashed down the front door of the residence where the woman, mother and 5 children lived armed with a large carving knife.   The woman, fortunately, was not home at the time, but her mother and her 5 children were.  Being in a rage, when the Mother of the woman did not tell him what he wanted to know he cut her throat from ear to ear.  When one of the children, an 11 year old boy came to the assistance of his grandmother, he was stabbed in the back of the head, dying instantly.  He then left the premises.

He was eventually caught, and sentenced to another life term (20 years).

Now if any of the do gooders can tell me that this animal, was rehabilitated and that the death penalty should not be considered I have lost all faith in mankind. 
This was only one of many murders dealt with over many years. 

I have seen the eyes of the Murderer and also the non existence of life in the eyes of the victims.

If the sentencing had been carried out correctly in the 1st place (death Penalty)
the death of the 2nd lot of innocent people could have been avoided.

I really get upset when I hear, we are lowering ourselves to their level, It would be different if you looked into the eyes of the one who you were about to execute. 
As I have said before, I have looked into the eyes of the murderers and the lifeless eyes of their victims and I would line up with Dave to be an executioner any time.  Think about the incident I have just relived and tell me if it had been your mother or grandchild that had been murdered if you would still feel remorse for this offender?

So, tell me if I am over reacting.  I have dealt with this type of person for over 30 years.

Dave do not bag the Police too much, as most of the time they do have their own feelings on these matters, however, have to be politically correct.  They bring the offenders before the courts and it is not their decision to set them free or give light sentencing.  I am sure most of them would also line up.

What are you trying to say Davo???

"OK, so the do gooders on this forum are at it again, god bless their little souls." I don't think of myself as a do-gooder (although I try to do as well as I can) but more as a pragmatist. I have no deep aversion to capital punishment, except that I think that it is barbaric. I have seen ACTUAL film of electrocutions in the US of A and of hangings in Europe. However those among us who seem to have a thirst for vengeance rather than justice immediately pooh-pooh the idea of death by lethal injection as being too gentle a form of execution. When it comes down to it they want the victim to SUFFER and I think that says more about them than simply a desire to punish the offender. I tend to agree that long-term prisoners have a better standard of living than I consider appropriate. The provision of colour TV and other luxuries is just plain wrong!!!. Having said that, I think that 30 or 40 years in jail is a worse punishment than being executed. It certainly would be for me. We could more productively spend our time in fighting against light sentences being handed down by the courts or the plea-bargaining by the prosecuters in order to guarantee convictions. The thought that a murderer can be out walking the streets in 10 or 12 years is the main problem with our system of justice. As far as the pragmatism goes, even if I supported capital punishment, and would vote in favour I GUARANTEE you that if a referendum were held tomorrow, with the recent arson attacks fresh in people's minds, there would be at least a 2/3 majority opposed to re-introducing the death penalty. That is the way our citizens think today and we will just have to learn to live with it.

this one got too close to me so I had to withdraw, as a counselor I know the effects, I have seen first hand what these people do, there would be no pity or mercy from me!!

Hi Dave et al In my humble opinion it is not a topic suited to a friendly travel orientated forum. I am surprised the webmaster hasn't canned it already.

If we bring respect back into our vocabulary, beginning at home when their new borns, we may have a kinder world. Then these mixed up children/people play computer games, where dead isn't dead. The target is killed in one game, and gets right back up in the next game to be killed again. The reality handle is broken. Technology is a wonderful thing for communication and entertainment but in the wrong hands is can be a lethal weapon. I'm a very strong advocate of the respect concept most of you will remember being drummed into you as children. Being seen and not heard took it to an unreal limit, but somewhere in there respect still has to be maintained. Don't leave it up to the poor, over worked teachers to do it. It's too late by the time they get to school, because they don't know they're supposed to respect the teacher. If respect for life and property was resurrected this world would be a more peaceful place. Some of these kids are now suffering from TATADS ..... "Thong across the arse deficit disorder." Not bashing and belting, but a timely smack is the only language some of these kids understand. It's not always the kids' fault, it usually starts with the parents and their attitufe and lifestyle. Now that's off my chest I can relax again. Cheers Granny

As I stated this topic which is, I agree, very emotive and for some very distasteful I can't for the life of me see why it should not be discussed. I've said earlier that we are all mature adults in this forum and this topic has as much validty as many of the others discussed..... It became to close to Dave so Dave did what any mature adult should do and withdrew. Unfortunatley we live in a real world, and as adults we should have an opinion because if we don't have an opinion someone else will decide what we want and we may not like what the other person wants, then it's too late to bitch and whinge.
From the outset I must state that I am totally opposed to the reintroduction of the death penalty, simply because in the wrong hands it gives to much power. You only have to look at countries where the death penalty is available as the ultimate punishment to see just how wrong it can be.
I have a close friend whose 18 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER was dragged kicking and screaming into a car, pack raped and then thrown out of a car, at speed, onto the Hume Hwy near Yass. The abduction occured in a busy street in Canberra, at a bus interchange, 100's of onlookers all of whome chose to look the other way even though a car should not have been in the location anyway, it was a truckie who saw her thrown from the car that got Police mobilised and the scum that did this were soon in custody. So these blokes get 7 years gaol and are due for release next year, mean whaile mates daughter has to bear the physical & emotional scars for the rest of her life, she has to queue to see a DR, she has to pay to see her Psych in fact if she wants treatment at all she has to PAY and in fact has been waiting since the incident nearly 6 years ago to get her bills reimbursed through the Victims of Crime fund, mean while her assailants have been living the life of Riley, colour TV, espresso machine, all mod cons, straight to the front of the queue for medical treatment etc.
 At the time this happend I was out for revenge, I would have personally tortured these bastards, I would have held their eyelids opened and applied a burning ciggarette to them, I Tell Ya I would have castrated them, beaten them to a pulp had I been allowed to do so. Yeah I can be the most vidictive person on the planet but if you had seen this you would also have agreed that my emotions at the time were entirely natural and human. I DID NOT WANT THEM KILLED, but I wanted them to suffer, not get a lousy 7 years living in a protected society.
I think that the prison system is too lax for crimes of violence, Port Arthur had its merits though the treament was handed out for minor infringements of the british class system but a prison system where violent offenders actually plead for death to get away from their punishment might help reduce crimes of this type. Trouble is the offenders these days seem to get their sentence mitigated by the "I'm an addict" response, "I was on ICE your honour" yeah well deal with that then throw the book at them with hard labour as well.
I'm opposed to the death sentence, but in the words of G&S "let the punishment fit the crime"
Granny is right too, if we could bring respect back into society along with another thing that the current generation seems to have lost "Common Sense" then we would all be the better for it.

In the UK judges can order chemical castration for crimes of a sexual nature, the dogooders are oposed because there is anecdotal evidence that if the offender reforms the process cannot be reversed..... Oh dear me, some people are never satisfied.

I honestly don't know if the Death penalty would be a deterrent in stopping brutal crimes and my family has been lucky enough never to have suffered as victims of these crimes. My politics would be classed as right of centre and I am far from being classed as pc, but I would have to say that I am completely against the death penalty. I read a report on the internet about 12 months ago stating that since DNA testing has begun(Sorry but I cannot find the link or remember who published the report), about 20 have been released from death row in Texas and proved to be innocent or cast enough doubt on their guilt. Can you imagine what it would be like if one innocent person was put to death. Can you imagine what it would be like if one of your family members was scheduled to be put to death. Evil people can come from good caring families. I have always thought that capital punishment is something that modern society couldn't entertain. If one of my family members became a victim of some heinous crime, my opinion would probably change. On another note, some Asian cultures believe that if a criminal is put to death, it cleanses their soul and allows them to live their next life in a good and positive way.

"Al"  you didnt offend me, it wasnt anything that you said, dont stop posting,

 I did it myself,  I raked over a few coals that I should have left alone and I burnt myself, I'm climbing back out now, but, oh boy!!! once that black dog gets a hold he doesnt let go easily, he's a tenacious bugger, always just under the surface waiting!!!!!!!

Oh well I may as well chuck in my two bobs worth.
I do believe in the death penalty and the cane in schools, I have just finished a contract with Queensland Correctional Services as a Trainer, and what I seen and experienced I can't talk about, but.................
Yes I want the death penalty back, well that's my two bob gone.