Wonder how many people buy a 4by and actually engage 4 wheel drive My first was a nissan 3speed box with h and l range in the late 60s and use to travel with a mate who had an old landy, series one shortwheel base, both vehicles were hotted up and could go anywhere went all over the hills where the fires were using all those fire tracks, in the Dande ranges, winter and summer We got them for there recreational value, and often took tucker and swag and a whole heap of rescue gear, for long weekends, with really coarse tyres we could get bogged to the axles, and find ourselves swimming creeks with the floor awash, or sliding sideways down hills, getting deliberatly lost, to find ourselves emerging at the bogong plains or omeo, we used to cover a lot of miles , (no GPS in those days, and winchs were a pulley and rope combinations Now I have a old diesel patrol in which I might engage the front wheels once or twice a year when the track in gets too muddy, and even then it is very seldom neccessary the old girls prime purpose now is as a tow vehicle, wieghing in at over 2 tonne and plenty of torque and low down grunt it is the ideal for me to tow the van, --------------afraid I no longer can take the rough tracks
Wombat 280 said
07:11 PM Mar 24, 2009
Now if you have a 4WD that you can acutally change between high and low then hang onto it as the trend is to go electronic where you flick a switch and your plastic car undergoes a change in engine noise and little else. Today's 4WD's are little more than big kids toys and a good talking point when measuring male masculinity extensions, as boys have a tendency to do in the bush
I dare say about 95% of 4WD owners wouldn't know what to do if they needed to engage the front diff or use a winch . Have been on the beach many time where drivers get bogged up to the diffs and when you ask have you engaged the Hubs the look of amazement on their faces is a delight to watch as they say "how do I do that"
Basil Faulty said
07:14 PM Mar 24, 2009
I use the 4 wheels on mine all the time especially when I am driving it because it's too heavy to carry without the wheels on it ROTFL....
I use 4x4 even just on loose gravel roads simply to get a better grip, very handy too when manouvering the van on dirt or gravel. But my reason for buying a 4x4 was for towing, I like a chassis and the vehicle weight & power which you don't get in monocoque....
Cruising Granny said
07:26 PM Mar 24, 2009
I bought my 4.2 litre diesel, 5 speed manual Landcruiser specifically for towing. The height, the power and the strength. Power to tow and power to stop. I have locked the hubs a few times over the last 5 years. No magic buttons on the dash, I have to get out and physically lock 'em, and them pick high or low range, depending on the terrain. I use the cruiser for other recreational exploration without the van hooked up. The versatility is endless if you're serious about travel - ie having a look around the country you're parked up in.
Trying to tow with a smaller vehicle is just too dangerous, especially through hilly and windy country.
Rosy's a good girl - we're a team. She's a girl's truck.
Cheers Granny
dave06 said
07:50 PM Mar 24, 2009
well granny "rosie" is certainly not a "girls" truck she is built to a standard and not down to a price such as the dinky toys that come out of china town these days, lock the diffs and engage the 4wd, select low range and you have a tractor capable of plowing any paddock and thats exactly where they belong
shame most people neither need nor use a 4wd, would not know how to use it in the first place, it has become, like everything else nothing more than a status symbol
I truly beleive that unless you are going to do some serious off roading there is absolutely no reason to own a 4wd, all average towing with an average caravan can be acheived with a two wheel drive vehicle, but of course "the idiots" must go BIGGER
I am also a great beleiver in going the next step in dissuading people from buying these useless fuel guzzling atrocities in the first place without a valid reason
there should be a special license to drive one with the appropriate training
you should NEED one, I.E. spend at least 20% of your time actually off road as in a farmer or in the mining industry
the registration should be at least 30% higher than a normal vehicle
I shall be shouted down for this but I dont give a rats backside, most of these trucks do no more than take the kiddies to and from school and the occasional weekend trip with the camper trailer to the nearest c/park, then upon return it is polished and returned to its school run
they are a nuisance in the city and not much good on the highway, in the c/park where the brag factor is high then they come into their own by owners who wouldnt know a cubic centimetre from a fan belt, I asked one local knowall what the C.R.D.I. meant that he was bragging about to his idiot neighbor, neither could answer ( itis, by the way, common rail direct injection)
the high trouser brigade spend endless hours bragging about the anti theft alarm and the high lift shockers along with the haymen reese drawbar and not one of them have any idea of what they are on about
Cruising Granny said
10:18 PM Mar 24, 2009
Well Dave, that's why I have an '95 model 80 Series rather than the more recent 100 or 200 series plastic version of a 4WD. Anything smaller is a tonka toy looking for trouble.
Having lived and worked in the Kimberleys, and spent a lot of time around SA west coast sand dunes, I do appreciate the uses of a real 4WD. Not my status symbol, just purely practical for the job I want it to do. I keep her serviced and I manage her as I rely on her.
If I bought a 4.2 litre gas guzzling status symbol to take kids to school I would expect someone to kick me very hard from behind.
It's all a matter of strength for various road surfaces, and power to weight ratios. All my wordly goods are in both vehicles, and I haven't even put them over the weighbridge to know Rosy will handle it.
If I could, I'd get one of the latest 70 Series, 4.5litre, turbo diesel cruisers, but sensibility kicks in when I look at my bank balance.
I'd rather be overpowered than under powered. So far I'm her 3rd owner, she's clocked up 297,000kms, I've been around Aust twice with her, and have no intentions of swapping her for anything less powerful or capable.
Stay upright. Cheers Granny
twobob said
11:09 PM Mar 24, 2009
I disagree with Sir Dave, in so much as penalising people that own them. That argument could be raise against many vehicles. I own two of them, and USE them.
I have found the best advantage of them is the ground clearance, and high torgue. I have no hessitation going anywhere i wish.
To be fair, I have also been many places in an old holden ute, that would test the average 4wd driver. I have also gone out to rescue stuck 4wds, and done it in 2wd. So having a 4wd, does not make you a better driver who can go anywhere.
I also have had little need to select the second stick, but its nice to know its there. Funny enough, I had to select it recently, just to get out my driveway!! Rain Dave, Rain, eat ya heart out.
The biggest trouble with owning them is they are not used full time for their main purpose, and that cost extra, mainly fuel and tyres. I think it is one of those personal preferences, based on the best vehicle for your needs
If you own one, know how to engage 4wd, and the only brag point is, how you used your driving skills to get out of trouble (with a little help from the 4wd)
drongo & wendy said
08:07 AM Mar 25, 2009
dont we just love the 4by chatter no winners every one for there own i have 1 son and 1 daughter with toyo l/c mick could drive his up the face of the breakaways, rhonda likes hers just because. 3 or 4 years ago i read in NT paper about crashes on the stuart hwy from pt argusta to darwin that required medical attension. i think it was something like 62% were 4/4s i know i know ya saying thats because there maybe more on the hwy but 60 odd% i think tells the store of the drivers in them.
stickin to my holden
Cupie said
09:15 AM Mar 25, 2009
The only reason that I have my 2.8 ton 4.2 EFI Patrol is to safely & effortlessly pull my 2.3 ton van.
There are a few non 4WDs that can IMO do the job safely. In any case they use as much fuel as the patrol.
I would consider it most unfair to further penalise drivers of 4WDs just because they are 4WD. I think that the extra fuel taxes is prenality enough & applies to all gas guzzlers .. & that's fair.
I find that low range 4WD is great for reversing slowly up the grassy slope to the van's parking spot beside the house. This is almost an impossible task in 2WD with lots of riding the clutch & wheel slip.
I really needed 4WD low range only once, and that was when pushing the van back up onto a site at Exmouth CP.
Other than that I very occasionally use 4WD high range when poking around on sand tracks, but with the wide tyres that came standard & less air pressure, I really don't need 4WD.
My Patrol is rarely used without the van as I have a Hyundai Getz for round town.
ps. I have a bit of experience in 4 wheel driving, having in a previous life, spent several years bush bashing with the Royal Australian Artillery & training new drivers on 4WDs. As well I enjoyed many years camping & driving on the sand at Frazer Is in 70's .. but have had enough of that & rarely go off road these days
Basil Faulty said
09:53 AM Mar 25, 2009
Haven't heard much from Harrold Scrooby recently..... He must have been "shut up"
mike and Judy said
10:16 AM Mar 25, 2009
there is now 3 members in my family who have got G Qs, My son has just got his with an older Viscount, getting ready to run , if the fires come again
Mt sister and husband are Nomads like me with a GQ and a coramal van, and there son is the head honcho for service at Honda has a very hot GQ, which gets a BIG WORKOUT every 2nd weekend in some hills around Brisbane
I was origanally going for an 80s series l/cruiser but the patrol are a coupla thousand cheaper, and think from a 4x value its not there,
A good training ground is the surveyors route to the top end of the cape, listening to all the chatter on the CB, its surprising how many are low flying and breaking springs and shockers
some people have no idea even how to drive on a dirt road
dave06 said
10:40 AM Mar 25, 2009
oh I'm sure we can all find excuses for owning our 4wd's and some I may agree with, towing a large van on hard surfaces is NOT one of them, the falcon Ute would do that very easily at 2300 kg's towing capacity (including safety variance) and it has a limited slip diff so wet grass would not be problem or wait an hour and the grass will be dry, a few minor adjustments and one could easily achieve 2800 kgms towing capacity
I'm talking about the toorak tractor brigade which most belong too
If I was taking off around Australia I would have one, but for those of you that just occasionally pull up and down the east coast then you dont need it, towing capacity is not an excuse
and Dave you are dead right about the drivers of the 4wd's, most are ignorant, pugnacious little twerps who have a minuscule penis issue and just have one "because", it is nothing more than a status symbol, they have been proven to be less safe than a standard car so that is no reason to own one, perhaps if one was to buy a sticker with 4wd on it and put that on a corolla would be a better option
they take up a park and a half and then park right over the line so we cant get in to our cars, they are simply incapable of parking the thing correctly, they do not ever use the vehicle for which it was intended, wouldn't know how to, too scared to get it dirty or scratched, ah but you see "I might one day"
not only would I penalise further with extra rego and insurance I would make fuel dearer for those spending 80% of their time in town, governable through log book accountability and I would have special parking spaces designated 4wd only that are right to hell away from other cars, I have that many little dents and scratches from these idiot women and men who "must have them because" parking next to me and then just letting the door fly open hitting any car around them without a concern in the world
I have three insurance claims pending against these half brained morons at the moment for minor damage, my new Magna is not a target for these clowns to throw their doors at and I should not have to put up with this behavior, I may even start a petition to have allocated parking spaces for these things further away from more reasonable vehicles, the same as they do for handicapped zones except way to hell away
leave them outside the city limits where they belong unless you have a valid reason for one
Smokeydk said
12:52 PM Mar 25, 2009
BooooHoooooooo!!
you all know I've only had my Paj.like 6 weeks and .you putting me in the box, ignorant, pugnacious little twerps ...BoooHooo!!!.. lol...I had a good look at SUVs..most I couldnt get into...LCs..Patrols...etc.....I'm 6ft 5"..all legs lol....the AU Falcon I had towed my camper easily....but it wasnt too good getting over the speed humps...in C/Ps..so it was the Pajero.....has good ground clearence and leg room.....without a bullbar...bush bash'n in 4x4 will be limited for awhile....I think I know how to select 4x4.....I might need help..only been a firey.25 years..
Dave
Cupie said
01:04 PM Mar 25, 2009
Basil Faulty wrote:
Haven't heard much from Harrold Scrooby recently..... He must have been "shut up"
I think that I heard from him on a no news day a few months ago ... maybe we could find an understudy for him.
dave06 said
01:17 PM Mar 25, 2009
Granny next time you service or have your vehicle serviced I strongly advise that you visually inspect the lock washer on your main diff nut, these are well known to let go and thereby dropping the centre straight in to the spidergear
be sure that nut is secure and the washer that locks the nut is in good nick
a secondhand diff centre for those model are $3,500 if you can find one
Rolly said
01:28 PM Mar 25, 2009
Why a 4WD?
Towing on dirt roads in poor condition requires more than a lightweight vehicle designed for completely different circumstances.
I'm not a 'sports' 4WDriver and have no particular interest in purposely driving into situations to test the car's and my own abilities and skills.
I rarely have a need to use the low ratio gears, but they have occasionally got me out of places that I had no desire to remain in!
The 4x4 capabilities in high ratios are a significant advantage on badly maintained dirt roads, providing better stability and, surprise, surprise, better fuel consumption and reduced wear on the tyres and transmission due to less wheel slip.
4WD makes no difference to your stopping ability but even in normal driving it does provide the traction to pull yourself back onto firmer surfaces should you inadvertently encounter loose or boggy patches.
Even a LSD differential on a 2WD is an improvement over a normal one.
Cupie said
08:16 PM Mar 25, 2009
dave06 wrote:
the falcon Ute would do that very easily at 2300 kg's towing capacity (including safety variance) and it has a limited slip diff so wet grass would not be problem or wait an hour and the grass will be dry, a few minor adjustments and one could easily achieve 2800 kgms towing capacity
Gee when I read this I thought .. what a great opportunity to save a $1000 /year on rego & insurance on the second vehicle & become a one car family.
So I called a mate who has a falcon ute & he confirmed that the rated towing capacity is 2300Kg with a ball weight of 230Kg. There was no mention of a 'safety variance' so I can't comment on that. My long suffering 1995 patrol is rated for 2700KG braked towing. I think that gives me a fair safety margin.
But the Jayco is 2330Kg with a measured ball weight of 270Kg. .. so no falcon for me!
But maybe that's a good thing!
I'm not sure that I'd like to have a semi transport let alone a B Double or Triple or even a quad pass me in a 1.7ton falcon pulling a full van at 2.33Ton. Even with the 'obligatory' weight distribution hitch on the 2.8ton patrol, I feel the suck as they pass or overtake, but it stays on line. Lots of friends with town cars & light pop tops tell me a different story. Getting off the bitumen to let them pass might also be an interesting exercise. Nor would I like to make an emergency stop on a freeway/major highway with the breaking capacity of the town car (plus of course the vans electric breaks). Not sure neither how well the falcon would be going after 180000Km of towing over 2 ton as the patrol has done with no real problems.
Having said that, I agree with Dave in that if he 'were heading off around Australia (he) would have one'' (a 4WD). and isn't that most caravanners dream?
He also said that his falcon solution might be the go for those who 'occasionally pull up the east coast'.
For those who are just browsing this site ... In my opinion, please think long & hard & get the views of a range of people in the business & those who have pulled large vans before you couple up your town car to a 2 ton or more van. Make sure that your set up is legal or you might have insurance issues in case of an accident.
ps. With respect to the discussion on LSD & wet grass .. the patrol with its LSD & wide HT tyres in 2WD the difficulity pushing the van up the dry but lush Qld front lawn, occurs when the front wheels encounter the V shaped gutter. (Have to go slow because of the restricted clearance between house & fence). Low range 4WD makes it very easy every time. In Exmouth the issue was towing hitch clearance.
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 25th of March 2009 07:17:46 PM
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 25th of March 2009 07:19:23 PM bugger .. spelling errors!
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 25th of March 2009 07:21:02 PM
My first was a nissan 3speed box with h and l range in the late 60s and use to travel with a mate who had an old landy, series one shortwheel base, both vehicles were hotted up and could go anywhere
went all over the hills where the fires were using all those fire tracks, in the Dande ranges, winter and summer
We got them for there recreational value, and often took tucker and swag and a whole heap of rescue gear, for long weekends, with really coarse tyres we could get bogged to the axles, and find ourselves swimming creeks with the floor awash, or sliding sideways down hills, getting deliberatly lost, to find ourselves emerging at the bogong plains or omeo, we used to cover a lot of miles , (no GPS in those days, and winchs were a pulley and rope combinations
Now I have a old diesel patrol in which I might engage the front wheels once or twice a year when the track in gets too muddy, and even then it is very seldom neccessary the old girls prime purpose now is as a tow vehicle, wieghing in at over 2 tonne and plenty of torque and low down grunt it is the ideal for me to tow the van, --------------afraid I no longer can take the rough tracks
I use 4x4 even just on loose gravel roads simply to get a better grip, very handy too when manouvering the van on dirt or gravel.
But my reason for buying a 4x4 was for towing, I like a chassis and the vehicle weight & power which you don't get in monocoque....
3 or 4 years ago i read in NT paper about crashes on the stuart hwy from pt argusta to darwin that required medical attension. i think it was something like 62% were 4/4s i know i know ya saying thats because there maybe more on the hwy but 60 odd% i think tells the store of the drivers in them.
stickin to my holden
There are a few non 4WDs that can IMO do the job safely. In any case they use as much fuel as the patrol.
I would consider it most unfair to further penalise drivers of 4WDs just because they are 4WD. I think that the extra fuel taxes is prenality enough & applies to all gas guzzlers .. & that's fair.
I find that low range 4WD is great for reversing slowly up the grassy slope to the van's parking spot beside the house. This is almost an impossible task in 2WD with lots of riding the clutch & wheel slip.
I really needed 4WD low range only once, and that was when pushing the van back up onto a site at Exmouth CP.
Other than that I very occasionally use 4WD high range when poking around on sand tracks, but with the wide tyres that came standard & less air pressure, I really don't need 4WD.
My Patrol is rarely used without the van as I have a Hyundai Getz for round town.
ps. I have a bit of experience in 4 wheel driving, having in a previous life, spent several years bush bashing with the Royal Australian Artillery & training new drivers on 4WDs. As well I enjoyed many years camping & driving on the sand at Frazer Is in 70's .. but have had enough of that & rarely go off road these days
I think that I heard from him on a no news day a few months ago ... maybe we could find an understudy for him.
So I called a mate who has a falcon ute & he confirmed that the rated towing capacity is 2300Kg with a ball weight of 230Kg. There was no mention of a 'safety variance' so I can't comment on that. My long suffering 1995 patrol is rated for 2700KG braked towing. I think that gives me a fair safety margin.
But the Jayco is 2330Kg with a measured ball weight of 270Kg. .. so no falcon for me!
But maybe that's a good thing!
I'm not sure that I'd like to have a semi transport let alone a B Double or Triple or even a quad pass me in a 1.7ton falcon pulling a full van at 2.33Ton. Even with the 'obligatory' weight distribution hitch on the 2.8ton patrol, I feel the suck as they pass or overtake, but it stays on line. Lots of friends with town cars & light pop tops tell me a different story.
Getting off the bitumen to let them pass might also be an interesting exercise.
Nor would I like to make an emergency stop on a freeway/major highway with the breaking capacity of the town car (plus of course the vans electric breaks).
Not sure neither how well the falcon would be going after 180000Km of towing over 2 ton as the patrol has done with no real problems.
Having said that, I agree with Dave in that if he 'were heading off around Australia (he) would have one'' (a 4WD). and isn't that most caravanners dream?
He also said that his falcon solution might be the go for those who 'occasionally pull up the east coast'.
For those who are just browsing this site ... In my opinion, please think long & hard & get the views of a range of people in the business & those who have pulled large vans before you couple up your town car to a 2 ton or more van. Make sure that your set up is legal or you might have insurance issues in case of an accident.
ps. With respect to the discussion on LSD & wet grass .. the patrol with its LSD & wide HT tyres in 2WD the difficulity pushing the van up the dry but lush Qld front lawn, occurs when the front wheels encounter the V shaped gutter. (Have to go slow because of the restricted clearance between house & fence). Low range 4WD makes it very easy every time. In Exmouth the issue was towing hitch clearance.
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 25th of March 2009 07:17:46 PM
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 25th of March 2009 07:19:23 PM bugger .. spelling errors!
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 25th of March 2009 07:21:02 PM