Monster RVs A Nuisance (Letter to the Editor of The West Australian , in The Weekend West caravan section on page 38 dated March 19-20, 2011.)
I refer to the March 5-6 letter from Phil Chadd, which outlined shortcomings in caravan park facilities in accommodating huge recreational vehicles. Many caravan parks have been designed for regular caravans. Many converted buses tow a second vehicle on a trailer and some also have an annexe.
I have paced out some of these monster-sized rigs and the total length required can be 35m including space for loading ramps. Many large fifth-wheelers and caravans now have slide-out sections on both sides which overhang the neighbouring site or get entangled in the service points.
About five years ago I built six super-sized sites to cater for the demands of these huge rigs. The land required was three times the area of a normal site. Many rigs have the electricity demand of a house and deep sewerage for each site was installed. The sites have proved to be a very costly white elephant because only a minority will pay the 50 per cent extra site fee to use them.
I cringe every time one of these monster RVs enters our driveway because I know that there is about to be some unpleasantness. Those who refuse to pay the extra do not even look at the sites to see why they are so costly. The exercise of catering for a specific market demand only to be shunned causes me to warn any caravan park owners not to waste money on building such sites.
The rig owners want the big sites all right, but most will not pay for them.
Robert Davis Caravan Park Owner Northern Territory
Vic It's not the size of the Ship - It's the Motion of the Ocean !
petengail said
06:19 PM Mar 19, 2011
I can understand the reasoning. We lived in the USA for 4 years and camped and travelled extensively, (towing a boat and camping in a tent). Seldom did we not have a "drive through site". We did though once have a tent site in Florida with 40 channels of Cable TV. Rigs there are so enormous that no one reverses. I dont think they know how to. A friend who owns a fairly large R.V said that he gets p...d off because he often finishes up near the garbage bins at the back of the park, we on the other hand with an older 14 ft van get the prime spot. I was chatting to a couple at Inskip Point QLD the other month and they had a large RV with slide outs and wtih a full size ute behind. They said that it is very difficult to find places that can accommodate them. I guess its what you sow you reap. Love to but cant have it both ways....
-- Edited by petengail on Saturday 19th of March 2011 06:30:15 PM
milo said
06:57 PM Mar 19, 2011
i dont see the sense in something that big, what my dad has is big enough.. and thats only 23 feet.. struth..
Nicholstones said
07:02 PM Mar 19, 2011
Chatting recently with a Canadian couple who were out here on holiday, they said they had a 'trailer' (apparently US speak for caravan), but it was 'only a really small one' - just 26 foot!
Alan8888 said
07:07 PM Mar 19, 2011
Knowing your limits, planning and working within them is something I think is lost on some Nomadic travelers.
At a very high turnover park North in WA we were carretaker and there were a number of large sites available for the oversize customer (Vehicle and rig not person)
Well by late afternoon the park would be full up and all the larger sites were also full with LARGE rigs.
A particular afternoon at around 6:30PM a LARGE rig towing a LARGE trailer rolled up and when I said sorry there were no large sites or even small sites as the park turns over 100 plus sites per day and refill by mid afternoon.
The ocupants were quite confrontational and carried on like real jerks about the way that is not apropriate as there should be sites for them and just because they are BIG should not be a factor. Although it realy had not much to do with size just they arrived so late there was no roon at the inn.
I explained that it was a National Park not a Car Park and with high visitation you need to plan a little ahead.
Well I did find an area to fit them in but they were still demanding on there should be a site avaialble.
Some people just do not think outside their own little box or in this case BIG BOX.
I think if I had a HUGE rig like theirs I would be planning ahead a little more to ensure I had somewhere to park. not just expecting and demanding as some do
-- Edited by Alan8888 on Saturday 19th of March 2011 07:12:19 PM
jules47 said
07:42 PM Mar 19, 2011
We have friends with a 5th wheeler towed by a F250 - they have slide outs - but they never just turn up anywhere - they always ring first, go online if possible, have a look at the place - explain how big they are etc. They don't have any trouble, simply because they use common sense and book ahead. Really that is all it takes - consideration and common sense. Usually they stay quite a while in one spot - 3 months or more - so most park owners or operators are happy to oblige them. Other friends with a huge van also book ahead - and both lots don't expect to get into extremely busy areas during the "season" - these vans are their homes, so they need room to move, but they are reasonable people who consider others.
Shouldn't that be the rule of the road - consideration and common sense in all we do?
Cruising Granny said
08:19 PM Mar 19, 2011
Parks can't possibly build dozens of sites to accommodate these huge rigs. They'd lose average sized sites for the everyday nomad in an average sized rig. It's not economically viable to put all that land aside just in case a whopper turns up.
The size of the rig sometimes reflects the size of the ego, (only sometimes), and these big boys can be very demanding. They drive like it too.
Parks have trouble accommodating big buses and motorhomes, and then they have to make even bigger allowances for the 5th wheelers with wind outs both sides, plus awning. They use up more space, they pay more $'s.
ChiChi1 said
08:27 PM Mar 19, 2011
Maybe all sites should all be larger, then we with smaller rigs would have a decent amount of space. I dislike parks because its just like suburbia and we are packed in like sardines. I might as well stay home. O for a nice quite free camp in the bush. Nothing better!.
brickies said
08:55 PM Mar 19, 2011
Park owner told me he is thinking of a way to stop camper trailers from taking up to much room in the camping site when he told me to have a look at some , they have leanto everywhere take up more room than a caravan and annexes
Alan8888 said
09:00 PM Mar 19, 2011
wrote:
They use up more space, they pay more $'s.
Well there is a hint along another common coment I hear all the time
" I am a single traveler why should I pay same as 2 people" " I have Smaller rig than him why should I pay the Same"
These are common calls.
I wonder how many persons that have property think their rates should be less because there is only one of them.
It is a fee not for the service alone and if there is a continued fight to have them reduced for some or increased for others it is the overal traveling public that will be paying more.
Putting on my FLAQ jacket now as this is sure to raise adverse comment
-- Edited by Alan8888 on Saturday 19th of March 2011 09:08:30 PM
Alan8888 said
09:15 PM Mar 19, 2011
jules47 wrote:Shouldn't that be the rule of the road - consideration and common sense in all we do?
Shame though Big 4 we avoid those ones they are realy nice but you do pay little more for that extra special.
Helena said
09:56 PM Mar 19, 2011
reminds me of the time when we got talking to a chap who had turned a double decker bus into a motor home with trailer on the back he was complaining that he couldn't get into sites however we saw him a few months down the track and he had a for sale sign on his rig asked him about it he said that he talked this park manager into letting him park for the night as it was getting dark apparently the park manager told him to park right down the back on a bit of a paddock anyway as he turned the corner his rig caught the power line and blacked the whole park out so he had really had enough by the time we saw hime felt so sorry for the bloke. Helena.
brickies said
10:29 PM Mar 19, 2011
Alan 8888 it is important to get both side , often management of park get unfair coments when they try to be fair to all
GrumpyOne said
12:48 AM Mar 20, 2011
Hey Guys N Gals,
Unfortunately the campers are getting more and more like canvas houses these days. I saw some at the Adelaide Leisure Show that would have been twice the size of a large van, they were like military field hospitals, these should be charged for 2 sites.
When I set up an RV2 OzTent I need 3.0m(W) x 6m (L) when setup for longstays, I am soon to have a trailer built which will extend my layout to 5.1m(W) x 6.1m(L), but I will still be able to setup in a van site without going outside the limits, unlike some, not just campers either, some of the younger van owners tend to spread their wings also.
The overall picture I get from 99% of park owners is that they are trying to get more into less, vans & RV's/Motorhomes are OK to some extent because they are a set width and park owners have a good idea of space reuqired, however for camper trailers it is differet because of the many and varied layouts available, this makes it difficult for the park owners to plan.
I pay the normal price for a caravan site regardless of the fact that I am camping because I usualy get a powered site for the convenience of battery charging etc. This I don't begrudge but I do begrudge it when I get shoved in the smallest site because I have a tent.
Hoo Roo Happy Days Grumpster
-- Edited by GrumpyOne on Sunday 20th of March 2011 12:51:48 AM
Gerty Dancer said
11:02 AM Mar 20, 2011
Yes you are right about camper-trailers. We didnt have all the extra canvas for extra "rooms" for our Aussie swag, but still found it a tight squeeze in some places just to open up and put a side awning on. We took up so much space but had fewer comforts than people in a small caravan. So now we have a small caravan!
stan747 said
12:00 PM Mar 20, 2011
when we were looking to buy a van, the sellers always said the same thing, 'The vans become too small'.
After some months on the road, things tend to close in and become claustrophobic and after seeing some of
the van parks and the way people are jammed in and the prices they pay for this privelage, we decided to
buy big, free camp and enjoy the wide open spaces. Believe me, our ego's don't match the size of our rig,
we are as down to earth as anyone, but if we are going to spend the next few years on the road, comfort is
an important issue. Look forward to seeing you out there, happy camping, Stan and Pat
Zoomtopz said
06:27 AM Mar 21, 2011
As Stan has just said about cabin-crazy - when I had my old Inter . While we were on the road we would motel it twice a week as the old dear would just become too small . Richo
Andrea said
10:06 AM Mar 21, 2011
jules47 wrote:
We have friends with a 5th wheeler towed by a F250 - they have slide outs - but they never just turn up anywhere - they always ring first, go online if possible, have a look at the place - explain how big they are etc. They don't have any trouble, simply because they use common sense and book ahead.
We also travel in a 5th-wheeler - our Southern Cross is 25' 6", or 7.7 m, and now the only home we have - but have never had any difficulty either: like Jules' friends, we always call ahead and make clear when size we are. We also arrive at a park early in the afternoon, to make sure that we have a bit of manoeuvring room! Then again, we don't have slide-outs either - decided they were too much extra weight and something else to go wrong, and we've plenty of living space without.
Our van (including compressor fridge and TV) is powered mostly by our 12 v solar panels, with only the microwave and the air conditioner (seldom used) needing 240 v power. Heating is with a very efficient diesel heater. We can actually fit in a 'normal' site - just! - but we also prefer 'the road less travelled' and the small country towns, where there tend to be fewer 'sardine cans' for caravan parks.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's possible to have a permanent 'home-on-wheels' without being a pain to all and sundry. A number of caravan park owners have even invited us back, saying that they like campers like us... so I guess we must be doing something right!
Andrea
Palebushman said
10:31 PM Mar 22, 2011
"I have paced out some of these monster-sized rigs and the total length required can be 35m"
Wow Vic!!!! That's one massive rig, makes our converted Austral Metroliner look positively tiny!
Seriously though, as mentioned in a couple of posts above, most of us 'Big Rigs' give caravan parks a very wide berth, mainly because of the astronomical costs and that dreadful 'Sardine' planning culture of park owners.
Bush, Outback, Free camps and generally avoiding any reminders of the 'Rat Race' except for the necessary stocking up of provisions, is what most of us prefer.
Most of us 'Big Rigs' also abide by a set of common sensible rules that make our presence at any place we have stayed, difficult if not impossible to detect. And so far, the big rig travellers that we have had the good fortune of meeting, have been really amazing people and certainly not egotistical, but just like any other culture, I'm sure we will come across the odd exception or two.
When we had our Coaster, during our last Ozzie 360', we only used caravan parks on three occasions, and they were all experiences that we wished we had avoided.
Vic said
12:25 PM Mar 23, 2011
Hi Dave,
I didn't know you had changed rigs, any chance of a pic? I'm not sure what an Austral Metroliner is. Hope you haven't run into any more dust storms recently, the last one you were in sounded like a lulu! lol
Stan and Andrea......nice looking rigs!
Best regards Vic
-- Edited by Vic on Wednesday 23rd of March 2011 12:27:33 PM
Cruising Granny said
10:48 PM Mar 23, 2011
My observation indicates the new nomads want to replace the 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom real estate they're replacing, with all the comforts of that home. There's a huge rig in this park, to be towed by an 8 tonne flat bed truck. It's going to be a circus to watch him move out of the site.
Now with wind-outs on both sides, plus awning, some of these vans and 5th wheelers take up a lot of space.
As a single I've been considered with a small discount consideration at most parks.
The camper trailers are ideal for free camping, but take up a lot of room if all the attachments are attached in a van park site.
A friend of mine had a whizz bang and believed she shouldn't have to pay as much for a site compared to a large caravan which plugs in, sets up the awning, adds the Engel, and you could add a wind-out to that scene I suppose.
It's a headache for park operators to accommodate everyone. It's not best practice to set aside sites specifically for individual styles of campers, it's just not the best use of available space, nor is it economically viable.
This industry is huge and is very diverse. To each his/her own, and the van parks have to adjust to the times and styles of campers.
Some parks are spacious and comfortable, others are very squeazy. It keeps us on our toes when we have to reverse the van in. Drive-thru's are out there but not yet common.
Palebushman said
10:53 PM Mar 23, 2011
Vic wrote:
Hi Dave,
I didn't know you had changed rigs, any chance of a pic? I'm not sure what an Austral Metroliner is. Hope you haven't run into any more dust storms recently, the last one you were in sounded like a lulu! lol
Stan and Andrea......nice looking rigs!
Best regards Vic
*******************************************
Great to hear from you again Vic and nice to see that the GN's forum is still blessed with your presence. Yup, we switched to a larger rig last April and have just about completed the conversion of it from a bus. Still have a few refinements to do, but we are about to travel up to Cairns to give the motorhome a 'Test Run' to see if there are any wrinkles we may still need to iron out, before adding the finishing touches like body re-paint, 'fairy-lights' and a few chrome bits-n-bobs. Our next trip, after our return from Cairns, will be to head over to your neck of the woods, to make up for our missing you on our last trip there.
Edited some spelling errors
-- Edited by Palebushman on Wednesday 23rd of March 2011 11:02:17 PM
Nice Rig Dave......Wow.......room to play soccer inside, lol ! Hopefully catch up on your next trip.
Regards the thread caravan park, I got an email from the owner (I had contacted him), he said he didn't pick the title of the article, the journo did that, he said that he would take peoples comments on board but at this stage declined to put comments on a forum. He did explain his charges and the reason he built the new sites, hoping to forward plan for the increased traffic in big rigs in recent years.
Kind regards
Vic
Vic said
07:37 PM Mar 26, 2011
Regards the thread topic, the owner of this park gave permission for this reply to be posted on CF, see;
(Letter to the Editor of The West Australian , in The Weekend West caravan section on page 38 dated March 19-20, 2011.)
I refer to the March 5-6 letter from Phil Chadd, which outlined shortcomings in caravan park facilities in accommodating huge recreational vehicles. Many caravan parks have been designed for regular caravans. Many converted buses tow a second vehicle on a trailer and some also have an annexe.
I have paced out some of these monster-sized rigs and the total length required can be 35m including space for loading ramps. Many large fifth-wheelers and caravans now have slide-out sections on both sides which overhang the neighbouring site or get entangled in the service points.
About five years ago I built six super-sized sites to cater for the demands of these huge rigs. The land required was three times the area of a normal site. Many rigs have the electricity demand of a house and deep sewerage for each site was installed. The sites have proved to be a very costly white elephant because only a minority will pay the 50 per cent extra site fee to use them.
I cringe every time one of these monster RVs enters our driveway because I know that there is about to be some unpleasantness. Those who refuse to pay the extra do not even look at the sites to see why they are so costly. The exercise of catering for a specific market demand only to be shunned causes me to warn any caravan park owners not to waste money on building such sites.
The rig owners want the big sites all right, but most will not pay for them.
Robert Davis
Caravan Park Owner
Northern Territory
Vic
It's not the size of the Ship - It's the Motion of the Ocean !
-- Edited by petengail on Saturday 19th of March 2011 06:30:15 PM
At a very high turnover park North in WA we were carretaker and there were a number of large sites available for the oversize customer (Vehicle and rig not person)
Well by late afternoon the park would be full up and all the larger sites were also full with LARGE rigs.
A particular afternoon at around 6:30PM a LARGE rig towing a LARGE trailer rolled up and when I said sorry there were no large sites or even small sites as the park turns over 100 plus sites per day and refill by mid afternoon.
The ocupants were quite confrontational and carried on like real jerks about the way that is not apropriate as there should be sites for them and just because they are BIG should not be a factor.
I explained that it was a National Park not a Car Park and with high visitation you need to plan a little ahead.
Well I did find an area to fit them in but they were still demanding on there should be a site avaialble.
Some people just do not think outside their own little box or in this case BIG BOX.
I think if I had a HUGE rig like theirs I would be planning ahead a little more to ensure I had somewhere to park.
-- Edited by Alan8888 on Saturday 19th of March 2011 07:12:19 PM
Putting on my FLAQ jacket now as this is sure to raise adverse comment
-- Edited by Alan8888 on Saturday 19th of March 2011 09:08:30 PM
Well could not miss this one either
Obituary writen of Common Sense
And Common Sense is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim
Cheers
http://www.batchelor-resort.com/other/story.htm
-- Edited by Vic on Saturday 19th of March 2011 09:40:34 PM
WOW that looks like a realy nice park.
Shame though Big 4 we avoid those ones they are realy nice but you do pay little more for that extra special.
Unfortunately the campers are getting more and more like canvas houses these days. I saw some at the Adelaide Leisure Show that would have been twice the size of a large van, they were like military field hospitals, these should be charged for 2 sites.
When I set up an RV2 OzTent I need 3.0m(W) x 6m (L) when setup for longstays, I am soon to have a trailer built which will extend my layout to 5.1m(W) x 6.1m(L), but I will still be able to setup in a van site without going outside the limits, unlike some, not just campers either, some of the younger van owners tend to spread their wings also.
The overall picture I get from 99% of park owners is that they are trying to get more into less, vans & RV's/Motorhomes are OK to some extent because they are a set width and park owners have a good idea of space reuqired, however for camper trailers it is differet because of the many and varied layouts available, this makes it difficult for the park owners to plan.
I pay the normal price for a caravan site regardless of the fact that I am camping because I usualy get a powered site for the convenience of battery charging etc. This I don't begrudge but I do begrudge it when I get shoved in the smallest site because I have a tent.
Hoo Roo Happy Days
Grumpster
-- Edited by GrumpyOne on Sunday 20th of March 2011 12:51:48 AM
road we would motel it twice a week as the old dear would just become too small .
Richo
We also travel in a 5th-wheeler - our Southern Cross is 25' 6", or 7.7 m, and now the only home we have - but have never had any difficulty either: like Jules' friends, we always call ahead and make clear when size we are. We also arrive at a park early in the afternoon, to make sure that we have a bit of manoeuvring room! Then again, we don't have slide-outs either - decided they were too much extra weight and something else to go wrong, and we've plenty of living space without.
Our van (including compressor fridge and TV) is powered mostly by our 12 v solar panels, with only the microwave and the air conditioner (seldom used) needing 240 v power. Heating is with a very efficient diesel heater. We can actually fit in a 'normal' site - just! - but we also prefer 'the road less travelled' and the small country towns, where there tend to be fewer 'sardine cans' for caravan parks.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's possible to have a permanent 'home-on-wheels' without being a pain to all and sundry. A number of caravan park owners have even invited us back, saying that they like campers like us...
so I guess we must be doing something right!
Andrea
Wow Vic!!!! That's one massive rig, makes our converted Austral Metroliner look positively tiny!
Seriously though, as mentioned in a couple of posts above, most of us 'Big Rigs' give caravan parks a very wide berth, mainly because of the astronomical costs and that dreadful 'Sardine' planning culture of park owners.
Bush, Outback, Free camps and generally avoiding any reminders of the 'Rat Race' except for the necessary stocking up of provisions, is what most of us prefer.
Most of us 'Big Rigs' also abide by a set of common sensible rules that make our presence at any place we have stayed, difficult if not impossible to detect. And so far, the big rig travellers that we have had the good fortune of meeting, have been really amazing people and certainly not egotistical, but just like any other culture, I'm sure we will come across the odd exception or two.
When we had our Coaster, during our last Ozzie 360', we only used caravan parks on three occasions, and they were all experiences that we wished we had avoided.
I didn't know you had changed rigs, any chance of a pic? I'm not sure what an Austral Metroliner is. Hope you haven't run into any more dust storms recently, the last one you were in sounded like a lulu! lol
Stan and Andrea......nice looking rigs!
Best regards
Vic
-- Edited by Vic on Wednesday 23rd of March 2011 12:27:33 PM
-- Edited by Palebushman on Wednesday 23rd of March 2011 11:02:17 PM
Regards the thread topic, the owner of this park gave permission for this reply to be posted on CF, see;
http://www.caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15140&start=80
-- Edited by Vic on Saturday 26th of March 2011 07:38:07 PM