We had our heart set on an "off-road" caravan till we learned how heavy most of them were. Mr D loves his Prado and wasnt willing to swap it for a tug with greater towing capacity, so we chose a lighter (and less off-road capable) caravan.
At a roadside rest stop yesterday, we met a couple of people towing a caravan of the type we had looked at with a Prado like ours.. So I asked one of the men how much it weighed and was his Prado managing ok? He replied it was 2.6 tons net and even though "they" said the Prado could only tow 2.5 tons it was fine. His friend, towing an even larger caravan proudly said that his van was overweight, but that didnt matter, he had towed accross the Birdsville track and it went ok.
As I understand it, insurance companies wont cover a vehicle towing more than its rated towing capacity, and there are legal implications too.
There seems to be so many people out here towing what I would call irresponsible loads, its a worry. Or am I fussing too much?
Happywanderer said
09:57 PM May 16, 2011
I'm afraid I would want to keep within the insurance guideline Gerty. Something goes wrong, no payout.
jack biggles said
10:00 PM May 16, 2011
No Gerty, you are not fussing too much. There will always be those sorts of people in the game. Weights is a very important thing & people like that think its all fun and games & then theres an accident and someone is killed or seriously injured.
In all reality you could probably hook a prado up to a 5 tonne van and tow it, but it wouldnt be safe, irregardless of what the idiots say & it would have adverse effects on the handling of the tug.
If you tow over your vehicles GVM or the vans ATM (or the combinations GCM) and you are stopped and weighed, then you can be made to lessen your load on the spot, be fined or in extreme cases be sent to court. If theres an accident and someone is killed or seriously injured, look out, your insurance could be wiped & you will literally be up poo creek without a paddle.
-- Edited by jack biggles on Monday 16th of May 2011 10:00:43 PM
old briney said
10:06 PM May 16, 2011
i agree with you Jack
Cruising Granny said
12:38 AM May 17, 2011
I've frequently seen those small all-wheel-drives such as the Nissan Pathfinder, Ford Explorer and the Hyunda Terracan and smaller towing big vans, more than 20ft. I don't know what it would weight, but I do know once they get it rolling they then have to control, and eventually, stop it. I've also seen these inadequate little All wheel drives on the tilt tray with the van in tow, pulling into the caravan park in Cairns. Scary. It's always a matter of power to weight ratio. They think they will travel more economically with the little 4 cyclinder vehicle, and if it's diesel, "it can do anything". As we know, in actual fact they are costing themselves more money because the vehicle's horses are being stretched to the limit, whereas a larger vehicle will have spare horses and not use as much fuel. It's all relative.
Firefly said
06:09 AM May 17, 2011
Gerty we were the same as you mate, really would have loved something much more off roadish. But we bought the hilux last year and couldn't justify going for another car as well so we settled for the Rapid.
We will be right on the limit with it for this trip but I am due for a new car soon so I might make mine a bigger motored vehicle just for that peace of mind I think.
petengail said
06:41 AM May 17, 2011
We have an older and smaller van 14 ft Viscount 850kgs unloaded and 1.2 tonnes gross. So, that does not really give you much spare weight, especially if you are carrying water. I assume that 850kgs would be without the two 9kg gas bottles as well.
Firefly said
06:47 AM May 17, 2011
Pete we had to put ours over the weighbridge for rego last week and with the gas bottles, it was right on the correct weight with ours. The water tanks were empty though.
stan747 said
07:11 AM May 17, 2011
one good thing about the defender 130 we bought, it has the towing capacity, nearly 1.5 tons in the tray and can tow another 3.5 tons. Its also a vehicle that can go anywhere.
jimricho said
07:12 AM May 17, 2011
Cruising Granny wrote:
I've frequently seen those small all-wheel-drives such as the Nissan Pathfinder, Ford Explorer and the Hyunda Terracan and smaller towing big vans, more than 20ft. I don't know what it would weight, but I do know once they get it rolling they then have to control, and eventually, stop it. I've also seen these inadequate little All wheel drives on the tilt tray with the van in tow, pulling into the caravan park in Cairns. Scary. It's always a matter of power to weight ratio. They think they will travel more economically with the little 4 cyclinder vehicle, and if it's diesel, "it can do anything". As we know, in actual fact they are costing themselves more money because the vehicle's horses are being stretched to the limit, whereas a larger vehicle will have spare horses and not use as much fuel. It's all relative.
Spot on Chris,
Too much emphasis is placed on fuel economy anyway, it's only one of many of the expenses of vehicle ownership. Any saving in fuel (if any?) would most likely be more than offset by increased maintenance costs, especially in the long term, of the vehicle being under that much strain.
Underpowered and/or overweight rigs struggling up a hill on a busy highway are real pain in the butt for other road users.
My rig is only 1350kg and I wouldn't tow it with anything less than the Pajero or an equivalent powered tug.
sandsmere said
07:31 AM May 17, 2011
Our new van will be 2300kgs tare weight with a load capacity of 600kgs . 2900kgs all up .
Means we have to get a new vehicle to tow it . Have ordered a Toyota LC with a towing capacity of 3500kgs . Wouldn't try to do the job with anything smaller .
jack biggles said
11:59 AM May 17, 2011
Yes sandsmere, I know what you are talking about. I decided to stick with Landcruiser because my van is coming with extra water tanks & will be up around 3.2 t when I have it loaded & that really only left Landcruiser as an option, unless I went up to a GMC. Dodge or Ford F Truck. Of cause they are serious bucks to buy if you go new & a really big truck - BIG TRUCK!
Cruising Granny said
04:08 PM May 17, 2011
When I first started towing the van I averaged 8 kms to the litre. On the last escort job I averaged 7 kms to the litre with the sign up. It's like hitting a brick wall when pushing against a head wind. I even lowered the sign a little to reduce the resistance. I couldn't even use 5th gear on some stretches. Without the sign up or the van, I averaged 9 kms to the litre on the way home.
TowBall said
12:11 PM May 18, 2011
Thats been my worry for a long time ( seeing small cars - 4x4's ) towing large vans. Knowing MURPHYS LAW like I do, it will be me thats coming towards them when the whole shebang goes out of control & it happens before you can do anything about it.... saw a van ahead of me on the Hume h/way on the 7th May, Melbourne bound, go out of control. I was about 10 car lenghts behind it when it decided to dance all over 2 lanes of the highway & ended up jackknifed across the road with the tug in the sidecut facing towards us. It only took seconds from start to finish. The van was a tandem axle, smooth walled van, the tug was a large 4x4, v8, so should have been able to tow it ok, so my uneducated guess would be that the ball weight might have been to light - the van was twice on only 2 wheels - scared the bejesus out of me, had my hand on the manual control on the electric brake controller, just in case....
rockylizard said
07:45 PM May 18, 2011
Gday... We are all in agreement. The manufacturer states the Gross Braked Trailer weight that can be towed because the vehicle has been built (and tested) to handle that load. In fact, it is sensible that if the Gross Braked Trailer weight were 2000kg then it is prudent to only tow a trailer with ATM upto 1700kg or 85% of the 'rated load' - to ensure a safety margin. If the rated Gross Trailer Braked weight is exceeded then the transmission, suspension, towbar and towhitch are all placed under considerable stress. In the example provided - the Prado quite obviously is able to tow that weight ... and may have been doing that for 'a lot of km' .... but it is only time before the transmission, suspension, towbar or towhitch - at a minimum - will show the fatigue. Add to that the vehicle/van combined GVM is being exceeded and we now enter into the dangerous void of 'controlling the whole unit'. Braking, steering etc will suffer in anything but perfect conditions. Less than perfect roads (even sealed ones), winds (what ever direction/strength), sudden need to brake, control downhill (particularly long, winding, downhill sections) all make the rig grossly unsafe. So, having now made a short story long ........ it must only be time before 'authorities' wake up and do some form of checks on the industry, dealers and owners to ensure our roads are made safer for the rest of us ..... notwithstanding making it safer for those who don't seem to care. Cheers and happy (and hopefully safe) travelling John
Gerty Dancer said
08:42 PM May 18, 2011
Thanks John. Mr D chose not to tow greater than 80% of capacity, as you say, to allow a comfortable margin. The biggest difficulty we had in buying the van was the salesmen all said he should tow a greater weight, even more than the 2.5 tons allowed, and 2 of them were actually quite aggressive about it. My point is that lots of people who have little experience with towing would believe the salesmen. I think this is where the problem might begin.
gubby said
03:20 PM May 19, 2011
Just seen this and thought it would fit in here...
We had our heart set on an "off-road" caravan till we learned how heavy most of them were. Mr D loves his Prado and wasnt willing to swap it for a tug with greater towing capacity, so we chose a lighter (and less off-road capable) caravan.
At a roadside rest stop yesterday, we met a couple of people towing a caravan of the type we had looked at with a Prado like ours.. So I asked one of the men how much it weighed and was his Prado managing ok? He replied it was 2.6 tons net and even though "they" said the Prado could only tow 2.5 tons it was fine. His friend, towing an even larger caravan proudly said that his van was overweight, but that didnt matter, he had towed accross the Birdsville track and it went ok.
As I understand it, insurance companies wont cover a vehicle towing more than its rated towing capacity, and there are legal implications too.
There seems to be so many people out here towing what I would call irresponsible loads, its a worry. Or am I fussing too much?
No Gerty, you are not fussing too much. There will always be those sorts of people in the game. Weights is a very important thing & people like that think its all fun and games & then theres an accident and someone is killed or seriously injured.
In all reality you could probably hook a prado up to a 5 tonne van and tow it, but it wouldnt be safe, irregardless of what the idiots say & it would have adverse effects on the handling of the tug.
If you tow over your vehicles GVM or the vans ATM (or the combinations GCM) and you are stopped and weighed, then you can be made to lessen your load on the spot, be fined or in extreme cases be sent to court. If theres an accident and someone is killed or seriously injured, look out, your insurance could be wiped & you will literally be up poo creek without a paddle.
-- Edited by jack biggles on Monday 16th of May 2011 10:00:43 PM
I've also seen these inadequate little All wheel drives on the tilt tray with the van in tow, pulling into the caravan park in Cairns. Scary.
It's always a matter of power to weight ratio.
They think they will travel more economically with the little 4 cyclinder vehicle, and if it's diesel, "it can do anything".
As we know, in actual fact they are costing themselves more money because the vehicle's horses are being stretched to the limit, whereas a larger vehicle will have spare horses and not use as much fuel.
It's all relative.
Gerty we were the same as you mate, really would have loved something much more off roadish. But we bought the hilux last year and couldn't justify going for another car as well so we settled for the Rapid.
We will be right on the limit with it for this trip but I am due for a new car soon so I might make mine a bigger motored vehicle just for that peace of mind I think.
Pete we had to put ours over the weighbridge for rego last week and with the gas bottles, it was right on the correct weight with ours. The water tanks were empty though.
Spot on Chris,
Too much emphasis is placed on fuel economy anyway, it's only one of many of the expenses of vehicle ownership. Any saving in fuel (if any?) would most likely be more than offset by increased maintenance costs, especially in the long term, of the vehicle being under that much strain.
Underpowered and/or overweight rigs struggling up a hill on a busy highway are real pain in the butt for other road users.
My rig is only 1350kg and I wouldn't tow it with anything less than the Pajero or an equivalent powered tug.
Our new van will be 2300kgs tare weight with a load capacity of 600kgs . 2900kgs all up .
Means we have to get a new vehicle to tow it . Have ordered a Toyota LC with a towing capacity of 3500kgs . Wouldn't try to do the job with anything smaller .
On the last escort job I averaged 7 kms to the litre with the sign up. It's like hitting a brick wall when pushing against a head wind. I even lowered the sign a little to reduce the resistance. I couldn't even use 5th gear on some stretches.
Without the sign up or the van, I averaged 9 kms to the litre on the way home.
We are all in agreement.
The manufacturer states the Gross Braked Trailer weight that can be towed because the vehicle has been built (and tested) to handle that load. In fact, it is sensible that if the Gross Braked Trailer weight were 2000kg then it is prudent to only tow a trailer with ATM upto 1700kg or 85% of the 'rated load' - to ensure a safety margin.
If the rated Gross Trailer Braked weight is exceeded then the transmission, suspension, towbar and towhitch are all placed under considerable stress.
In the example provided - the Prado quite obviously is able to tow that weight ... and may have been doing that for 'a lot of km' .... but it is only time before the transmission, suspension, towbar or towhitch - at a minimum - will show the fatigue.
Add to that the vehicle/van combined GVM is being exceeded and we now enter into the dangerous void of 'controlling the whole unit'. Braking, steering etc will suffer in anything but perfect conditions.
Less than perfect roads (even sealed ones), winds (what ever direction/strength), sudden need to brake, control downhill (particularly long, winding, downhill sections) all make the rig grossly unsafe.
So, having now made a short story long ........ it must only be time before 'authorities' wake up and do some form of checks on the industry, dealers and owners to ensure our roads are made safer for the rest of us ..... notwithstanding making it safer for those who don't seem to care.
Cheers and happy (and hopefully safe) travelling
John
The biggest difficulty we had in buying the van was the salesmen all said he should tow a greater weight, even more than the 2.5 tons allowed, and 2 of them were actually quite aggressive about it. My point is that lots of people who have little experience with towing would believe the salesmen. I think this is where the problem might begin.
Just seen this and thought it would fit in here...
http://youtu.be/7q7K1bBhjkY