Hope you don't mind me sharing my painful deliberations with you. I have been doing so much research it is scrambling my brains.
I don't have the opportunity to upgrade or experiment too much and need something that can get me and the 3 dogs on the road fulltime and thus need a set up to support that and fairly quickly.
I have been looking at coasters and small caravans and have eliminated campervans as a tug as it would be duplicating. If I go for a small caravan I could probably get it fitted out with all the stuff I need and it would keep its value perhaps and I could fit out my current ute with CB etc.
A big issue is confidence as I don't know if I could set up a van with everything that's needed coming from being so inexperienced, whereas if I get something such as a coaster already set up, tried and tested then at least I know it has been on the road and functioning.
All the pros and cons of towing vs an all in one are whirling around.
But not to worry, over the next few months an answer will emerge.
I hope you are all having a wonderful night wherever you are.
Regards
Ellen
blaze said
11:33 PM Aug 15, 2011
I would go with the van, you could put a canopy on the ute to sleep the dogs. cheers blaze
jules47 said
07:01 AM Aug 16, 2011
Ellen - most caravans are fitted out pretty well, with most things people need, what special needs would you want? As Blaze says, go with the van, canopy on the ute to sleep the dogs - the rest is just the "stuff" we all need - general everyday living stuff - crockery, cutlery, pots etc. - minimilization(???) is the way to go when travelling - too much "stuff" just adds weight, which costs money in fuel.
My thoughts on the matter anyway, and the way my husband and I always travelled, and I don't see anything to change about that now that there is only me.
Good luck with your deliberations, and share them with us - we are all interested in what people are up to.
Rip and Rosie said
09:37 AM Aug 16, 2011
"A big issue is confidence as I don't know if I could set up a van with everything that's needed coming from being so inexperienced"
Hi Ellen Confidence is a thing that sneeks up on you, after bravery.
Bravery lets you take a basic van and get moving, and confidence will keep you rolling.
Most vans hold their value quite well, so the first purchase won't be the end of the world if its wrong. Just get one which is in good condition.
Start basic - we don't have generators and solar panels yet (might get them this year)- go to a camping store and get a re-chargable lantern, and while you're there look around for the basics. Lots of folk use a toilet tent and a bush shower.
Most people refine their set up as they go along.
So, my advice is not to even try to set it up "with everything that's needed", just get enough to get going, and the rest will come.
............ but then I'm sagitarian.
beachball57 said
10:24 AM Aug 16, 2011
experience only comes from getting out and having a go,, towing a caravan isn't all that hard neither is setting one up,, most of them are set up already anyway,, if you are going to be on the road "fulltime" and have a coaster or bus or something, unless you tow a small car behind it,, everytime you set up camp and want to go somehere even to the locla market or shops,, you have to almost break camp to to go because your home is also your main means of getting around,, where as a van can stay set up and you can come and go as you like,,,,,,,,,,,,,my thoughts anyway
Cruising Granny said
11:03 AM Aug 16, 2011
We the experienced all had to start somewhere. Guys are not born towers and backers, and neither was I, but with practice and experience I can now do both. It's the same as driving a car. You had to learn and start somewhere. There are even courses available to help you gain confidence with towing and backing, and 4WD if you want to do more. The only thing to remember, in this lifestyle there is no room for clutter and "stuff". Essentials only. It's a compact lifestyle, even if you have a 40ft bus or a 28ft caravan. Before I took off with my van I'd towed and backed a large, tandem trailer full of station stores and provisions. You have to be a confident driver before you set out, but after that, the rest is up to you. Hitching and unhitching is subject to a jockey wheel. The awning operation is a matter of practice. You won't break it if you take your time. The leveller bars take a little bit of "grunt", but if you use legs and back you don't have to be a strong "man" to do it. I have a crook back, but my knees are pretty good, so I work within my capabilities to do the necessary jobs. My tow gear is the Hayman Reese set up and it's very easy to use. If your van is balanced when loaded it should tow smoothly and not give you too much trouble on the road. I load the heaviest in the back of the Cruiser, other heavy over the wheels and to the front of the wheels in the van. Don't load the back of the van too heavily.
RosieW said
01:05 PM Aug 16, 2011
We are thinking a van is probably going to be better, after our bus deliberations. Urgh! If I don't kill him before we get going, we will have a blast.
Probably the smallest van for 1 person would be a 16 footer - we've looked at them down to 12 foot, and that was far too small. Dogs, put up an annex and you are set - they will be out of the weather, and you can get those beds with legs to keep them off the ground. A spike in the ground, chain them up (not a nice thought, but it's safer for them) and you are set.
The big thing is, and this is what someone (not me) hasn't gotten hold of yet, is that you REALLY need to consolidate your personal stuff (clothes, books etc) down to bugger-all. Your whole life in a suitcase, so to speak. And it's not easy. I started down-sizing in November last year, and I still have too much. Uni isn't helping there, I actually need a lot of stuff for that.
The thing I am learning is, that when your head starts to spin madly (like mine the past few days), just walk away, do something else, and come back refreshed.
I don't drive (yet) but I am going to have to learn. And to tow and reverse a caravan!!
You will be surprised at how much stuff you don't need - we have a bed set up in the back of the 4runner, we go away for a few days in that, and we cope. No power, so we take a gas cooker and a solar shower, and we cope. Even Mr Glamping does ok, although he does camp in the shower a while when we get home.
Treat it as an adventure, and a learning experience, and have fun. That's what it's all about (now I need to take my own advice, so please excuse me).
Beth54 said
04:11 PM Aug 16, 2011
Hi Ellen,
I've been in your position, only without the dogs. I had no confidence but pushed myself to get out there and do it.
I gradually became confident and adept at towing and reversing my wee little camper trailer. So much so, that I've just stepped it up a notch and bought an 11 foot poptop caravan. I haven't been anywhere in it yet, but I think it will be perfect for me.
I agree with the suggestion that you get a cover for the ute, and a wee little caravan, and you've got it made. My brother has a big dog, and he has the ute with the cabin on the back for the dog to travel in and sleep in.
The 'stuff' you need doesn't have to cost a fortune either. Op shops are great for so many needs. Cutlery, pots, etc are very cheap.
Elle on Wheels said
12:12 AM Aug 17, 2011
Hey All, thanks all for your comments and advice. I will think very seriously about towing. The little cub camper I had was great to tow and something just a little bigger could be ideal.
One of my very early considerations was a medium sized campervan towing a tent camper trailer so that I could set up camp, have a good sized bed outside of the van and lots of tent space thus not having to continually pack and unpack a bed inside the van. The van would also be good for security and overnight sleeping in case of being caught somewhere in the dark. Ideally both would be 4wd and being able to stand up in the van would be good.
I currently have a 4WD dual cab 4 cylinder hilux traytop with drop sides. It has 155000km on the clock and is deisel but unfortunately not turbo. I towed a fairly heavy 18 foot old Viscount down south of WA through Bridgetown way a few months ago (with great trepidation)and the poor old ute could not cope with the tow and the hills, chewed up lots of fuel and was a very slow drive. So if I kept the ute there would be a definite size and weight limit on whatever I towed. It would be a very practical way to begin though and quite easy to get a canopy made for it.
What do you think about canvas pull out beds. I've had friends who have bought vans with canvas pull outs who have traded them in very quickly for fully enclosed vans. It seems a great option to maximise space but the canvas would require maintence and eventual replacing probably which may only be a very minor issue.
My main concern about set up is to ensure adequate communications and energy requirements for prolonged independent camping so please don't think I want to cart the ball dresses, wedgewood and giant plasma tv. The essentials for this are a good system including 2 house batteries, a small solar system, a generator for emergencies or to charge the batteries, CB, GPS and arials etc for mobile and internet. I don't watch much TV but if the budget allowed one of the cheaper VAST systems could be good as well.
Thanks again for your advice and friendly ears. Ellen
Beth54 said
08:44 AM Aug 17, 2011
I should have read your last post before I answered you PM. Never mind.
By the sounds of your vehicle, you certainly don't want to tow something heavy. My little camper trailer was only 120kg, and the new/old caravan is 590kg.
My son and d-i-l have a camper trailer with the pop out beds. They like it, but they're young and fit. They had a tent trailer before that and find this one a lot easier.
There's also the Jayco Penguin which is a good alternative. It just pops up, the bed is inside, with no beds popping out the ends.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Wednesday 17th of August 2011 08:45:25 AM
-- Edited by Beth54 on Wednesday 17th of August 2011 08:45:56 AM
Rip and Rosie said
09:14 AM Aug 17, 2011
Elle on Wheels wrote:
I currently have a 4WD dual cab 4 cylinder hilux traytop with drop sides. It has 155000km on the clock and is deisel but unfortunately not turbo. I towed a fairly heavy 18 foot old Viscount down south of WA through Bridgetown way a few months ago (with great trepidation)and the poor old ute could not cope with the tow and the hills, chewed up lots of fuel and was a very slow drive. So if I kept the ute there would be a definite size and weight limit on whatever I towed. It would be a very practical way to begin though and quite easy to get a canopy made for it.
Thanks again for your advice and friendly ears. Ellen
According to Toyota the towing capacity of a hilux is 2.250Kg (4x4 double cab). That means fully laden with all of your stuff.
This is crucial for you to remember when looking for a caravan or camper.
The other bit is the tow bar fitted to your vehicle. Somewhere on it will be a compliance plate with its capacity. You will need one that is rated to pull over 2,250kg.
Whatever van you get needs to be well under 2,250 kgs with a ball weight suitable for your towbar.
In NSW it is illegal for a dealer to sell you a caravan/campervan which is unsuited to your vehicle- not sure about private sellers though.
Elle on Wheels said
10:27 PM Aug 20, 2011
Hi again everyone
Hi everyone thanks once more for your advice. Just a few more endless questions.
I recently went to the city so got some opportunity to visit a few caravan yards and check out some options. I think anything up to a 15 footer would be quite manageable. The vans I liked included jayco Swan and a couple of other birds, Windsor sunliner, a few coromals including the magnum. And there were several great old Viscounts. All of those are under 1000kg so would be fine to tow.
I am not convinced my 4 cylinder 4wd ute is the best tow vehicle - if i don't think ahead she is not good for hills as she is not turbo and I wonder about fuel economy. I think currently I only get about 12 litres max per 100km not towing anything.Ideally I would like to trade her in for a turbo deisel dual or space cab with canopy with the same mileage - ie around 155km deisel. I would like it to be relatively cost neutral so that might be more probable if I forgot about 4wd.
If I keep the current car then i will have to get a custom built canopy. But at least I know the car and even though not entirely happy with it I reckon it would be difficult to buy something better at the same price. There are some minor problems - for instance I bought it at 60000km and have not be able to fully eliminate a wheel shudder at 95kmh despite investigation at regular services. Attempts to remedy included wheel balances, tyre rotation, checking out axels, brakes.
Some questions - where is the best place to take a caravan to get the stuff I want fitted - eg dual in-house battery system, solar connection, hook up to car battery for charging, solar connections, VAST system... and similar for tow vehicle - CB, arials for mobile and internet etc.
I am now feeling very gung ho about reversing and reckon I can sort that out fairly quickly as long as the van is small.
As usual my heartfelt thanks for your replies and advice. Ellen
Hi everyone
Hope you don't mind me sharing my painful deliberations with you. I have been doing so much research it is scrambling my brains.
I don't have the opportunity to upgrade or experiment too much and need something that can get me and the 3 dogs on the road fulltime and thus need a set up to support that and fairly quickly.
I have been looking at coasters and small caravans and have eliminated campervans as a tug as it would be duplicating. If I go for a small caravan I could probably get it fitted out with all the stuff I need and it would keep its value perhaps and I could fit out my current ute with CB etc.
A big issue is confidence as I don't know if I could set up a van with everything that's needed coming from being so inexperienced, whereas if I get something such as a coaster already set up, tried and tested then at least I know it has been on the road and functioning.
All the pros and cons of towing vs an all in one are whirling around.
But not to worry, over the next few months an answer will emerge.
I hope you are all having a wonderful night wherever you are.
Regards
Ellen
cheers
blaze
My thoughts on the matter anyway, and the way my husband and I always travelled, and I don't see anything to change about that now that there is only me.
Good luck with your deliberations, and share them with us - we are all interested in what people are up to.
Hi Ellen
Confidence is a thing that sneeks up on you, after bravery.
Bravery lets you take a basic van and get moving, and confidence will keep you rolling.
Most vans hold their value quite well, so the first purchase won't be the end of the world if its wrong. Just get one which is in good condition.
Start basic - we don't have generators and solar panels yet (might get them this year)- go to a camping store and get a re-chargable lantern, and while you're there look around for the basics. Lots of folk use a toilet tent and a bush shower.
Most people refine their set up as they go along.
So, my advice is not to even try to set it up "with everything that's needed", just get enough to get going, and the rest will come.
............ but then I'm sagitarian.
Guys are not born towers and backers, and neither was I, but with practice and experience I can now do both.
It's the same as driving a car. You had to learn and start somewhere.
There are even courses available to help you gain confidence with towing and backing, and 4WD if you want to do more.
The only thing to remember, in this lifestyle there is no room for clutter and "stuff". Essentials only. It's a compact lifestyle, even if you have a 40ft bus or a 28ft caravan.
Before I took off with my van I'd towed and backed a large, tandem trailer full of station stores and provisions.
You have to be a confident driver before you set out, but after that, the rest is up to you.
Hitching and unhitching is subject to a jockey wheel. The awning operation is a matter of practice. You won't break it if you take your time. The leveller bars take a little bit of "grunt", but if you use legs and back you don't have to be a strong "man" to do it. I have a crook back, but my knees are pretty good, so I work within my capabilities to do the necessary jobs. My tow gear is the Hayman Reese set up and it's very easy to use.
If your van is balanced when loaded it should tow smoothly and not give you too much trouble on the road. I load the heaviest in the back of the Cruiser, other heavy over the wheels and to the front of the wheels in the van. Don't load the back of the van too heavily.
Probably the smallest van for 1 person would be a 16 footer - we've looked at them down to 12 foot, and that was far too small. Dogs, put up an annex and you are set - they will be out of the weather, and you can get those beds with legs to keep them off the ground. A spike in the ground, chain them up (not a nice thought, but it's safer for them) and you are set.
The big thing is, and this is what someone (not me) hasn't gotten hold of yet, is that you REALLY need to consolidate your personal stuff (clothes, books etc) down to bugger-all. Your whole life in a suitcase, so to speak. And it's not easy. I started down-sizing in November last year, and I still have too much. Uni isn't helping there, I actually need a lot of stuff for that.
The thing I am learning is, that when your head starts to spin madly (like mine the past few days), just walk away, do something else, and come back refreshed.
I don't drive (yet) but I am going to have to learn. And to tow and reverse a caravan!!
You will be surprised at how much stuff you don't need - we have a bed set up in the back of the 4runner, we go away for a few days in that, and we cope. No power, so we take a gas cooker and a solar shower, and we cope. Even Mr Glamping does ok, although he does camp in the shower a while when we get home.
Treat it as an adventure, and a learning experience, and have fun. That's what it's all about (now I need to take my own advice, so please excuse me).
Hi Ellen,
I've been in your position, only without the dogs. I had no confidence but pushed myself to get out there and do it.
I gradually became confident and adept at towing and reversing my wee little camper trailer. So much so, that I've just stepped it up a notch and bought an 11 foot poptop caravan. I haven't been anywhere in it yet, but I think it will be perfect for me.
I agree with the suggestion that you get a cover for the ute, and a wee little caravan, and you've got it made. My brother has a big dog, and he has the ute with the cabin on the back for the dog to travel in and sleep in.
The 'stuff' you need doesn't have to cost a fortune either. Op shops are great for so many needs. Cutlery, pots, etc are very cheap.
One of my very early considerations was a medium sized campervan towing a tent camper trailer so that I could set up camp, have a good sized bed outside of the van and lots of tent space thus not having to continually pack and unpack a bed inside the van. The van would also be good for security and overnight sleeping in case of being caught somewhere in the dark. Ideally both would be 4wd and being able to stand up in the van would be good.
I currently have a 4WD dual cab 4 cylinder hilux traytop with drop sides. It has 155000km on the clock and is deisel but unfortunately not turbo. I towed a fairly heavy 18 foot old Viscount down south of WA through Bridgetown way a few months ago (with great trepidation)and the poor old ute could not cope with the tow and the hills, chewed up lots of fuel and was a very slow drive. So if I kept the ute there would be a definite size and weight limit on whatever I towed. It would be a very practical way to begin though and quite easy to get a canopy made for it.
What do you think about canvas pull out beds. I've had friends who have bought vans with canvas pull outs who have traded them in very quickly for fully enclosed vans. It seems a great option to maximise space but the canvas would require maintence and eventual replacing probably which may only be a very minor issue.
My main concern about set up is to ensure adequate communications and energy requirements for prolonged independent camping so please don't think I want to cart the ball dresses, wedgewood and giant plasma tv. The essentials for this are a good system including 2 house batteries, a small solar system, a generator for emergencies or to charge the batteries, CB, GPS and arials etc for mobile and internet. I don't watch much TV but if the budget allowed one of the cheaper VAST systems could be good as well.
Thanks again for your advice and friendly ears.
Ellen
I should have read your last post before I answered you PM. Never mind.
By the sounds of your vehicle, you certainly don't want to tow something heavy. My little camper trailer was only 120kg, and the new/old caravan is 590kg.
My son and d-i-l have a camper trailer with the pop out beds. They like it, but they're young and fit. They had a tent trailer before that and find this one a lot easier.
There's also the Jayco Penguin which is a good alternative. It just pops up, the bed is inside, with no beds popping out the ends.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Wednesday 17th of August 2011 08:45:25 AM
-- Edited by Beth54 on Wednesday 17th of August 2011 08:45:56 AM
According to Toyota the towing capacity of a hilux is 2.250Kg (4x4 double cab). That means fully laden with all of your stuff.
This is crucial for you to remember when looking for a caravan or camper.
The other bit is the tow bar fitted to your vehicle. Somewhere on it will be a compliance plate with its capacity. You will need one that is rated to pull over 2,250kg.
Whatever van you get needs to be well under 2,250 kgs with a ball weight suitable for your towbar.
In NSW it is illegal for a dealer to sell you a caravan/campervan which is unsuited to your vehicle- not sure about private sellers though.
Hi everyone thanks once more for your advice. Just a few more endless questions.
I recently went to the city so got some opportunity to visit a few caravan yards and check out some options. I think anything up to a 15 footer would be quite manageable. The vans I liked included jayco Swan and a couple of other birds, Windsor sunliner, a few coromals including the magnum. And there were several great old Viscounts. All of those are under 1000kg so would be fine to tow.
I am not convinced my 4 cylinder 4wd ute is the best tow vehicle - if i don't think ahead she is not good for hills as she is not turbo and I wonder about fuel economy. I think currently I only get about 12 litres max per 100km not towing anything.Ideally I would like to trade her in for a turbo deisel dual or space cab with canopy with the same mileage - ie around 155km deisel. I would like it to be relatively cost neutral so that might be more probable if I forgot about 4wd.
If I keep the current car then i will have to get a custom built canopy. But at least I know the car and even though not entirely happy with it I reckon it would be difficult to buy something better at the same price. There are some minor problems - for instance I bought it at 60000km and have not be able to fully eliminate a wheel shudder at 95kmh despite investigation at regular services. Attempts to remedy included wheel balances, tyre rotation, checking out axels, brakes.
Some questions - where is the best place to take a caravan to get the stuff I want fitted - eg dual in-house battery system, solar connection, hook up to car battery for charging, solar connections, VAST system... and similar for tow vehicle - CB, arials for mobile and internet etc.
I am now feeling very gung ho about reversing and reckon I can sort that out fairly quickly as long as the van is small.
As usual my heartfelt thanks for your replies and advice.
Ellen