Hi all

I am looking at buying an invertor generator 2kva or above and would like peoples opinions.

I have looked at Honda and yamaha and they seem very expensive compared to the Kipor and Engel ones. I know you get what you pay for but is it worth paying so much more for the brand names?

I have also seen a Fuji micro electornics 4.4kva one on ebay for around $600 and was wondering if anyone had purchased one for these? 

Thanks in advance

Brett

Nothing wrong with Kipor or Engel even stanley are all good I've got a honda 20i but it was the best 10 years ago.

You will need at lest a 2kva my honda will start my aircon bit can not run any thing else

2.5 or 3kva best

If you haven't got a Honda or Yamaha generator then I hope your not too close to me at a campsite because most others are soo damn noisy

Cheers Jon

hi Brett, i purchased a Kipor GS2600 a few months ago from eltham in melbourne, very happy with it, just had 5 weeks away, performed really well and is just as quiet as the honda's that were being used, in the first week for about 4 hours use a day i topped the jerry can up and found i had used 9.7 litres for the week, so happy for that, i am happy overall with, time will tell about longevity, regards, gary

gst wrote:

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Nothing wrong with Kipor or Engel even stanley are all good I've got a honda 20i but it was the best 10 years ago.

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My dear darling man ignorance is bliss. Darling the Engel is a horrid little generator that produces square wave and only has a 2 speed throttle, not an eco style throttle of the Yamaha or Honda. Darling the Engel 2000 would drive the ants out of the park they are so noisy. Darling your idea of good and good has no correlation to fact. Darling while Jacko is a surgeon vet, Jacko has repaired and rebuilt small generators for 40 years by necessity. Jacko is in possession of manuals and factory tools for Yamaha and Honda. Darling not smart to post about what you don't know.

Hi 

 Agree with Jacko

Emgel make good fridges , but very poor generators .

Nothing like a sine wave which is really what many devises require to operate correcrtly or without damage

 I would also just like to repeat a WARMING for those using generators plugged into the van inlet socket to supply multiple appliances

240v from a generator can be just as deadly as your mains supply

This is a potentially dangerous practise

The general recommendation for SAFE use is to only have ONE class1 devise [one that requires a 3pin plug] CONNECTED at ANY time

Each additional devise encreases the risk for an elecrical accident if certain faults occur

Your van RCD [safety switch] if fitted, gives no protection from these faults

Your van actually becomes the FIRST appliance/devise

In the normal van you will already have additional class 1 devises [fridge , possible battery charger,air con & then maybe electric kettle , microwave etc ]

So take great care or have your existing standard RCD replaced with a URCD[universal RCD]which will give protection.

Peter

Consider  we listened darling.........

 Hi Johnq

 True, a fully isolated generator is quite safe from shocks to earth 

And no source ,no matter what protection is fitted is safe from a line to neutral shock

Your understanding on that is correct

The problem with any isolated source is it is only stays isolated as long as a fault to earth does not develope ANYWHERE in the system

Once such a fault developes it is no longer isolated ,it has virtually an active & a neutral ,exactly the same as MAINs supply with the same attendent risks

That fault could be due an insulation failure in the wiring ,an equipment fault  or even a cut in the extension lead insulation laying on the damp ground, etc

The reason for having only one class1 connected[3pin plug] is that a 2nd fault to earth via a person is very unlikely to occur, as no other appliance which could be LIVE is connected,for the person to make contact  with.

The van of course can develope that 1st fault and evidence exists of many vans having or developing such a fault due to poor /careles workmanship

The risk is low, but accidents & deaths have occured using both portable generators & inverters in other than the recommended manner

CONNECT ONLY ONE CLASS1 DEVISE AT ANY TIME is the recommendation to minimize risk

OR have CORRECTLY fitted protection

The standard RCD fitted in the van will not function with a generator or inverter plugged into the power inlet

 It should function on mains supply

Multiple class 2 devises [2 pin plugs ]may be used with a high level of safety as these are very unlikely to develope an earth fault

Peter

What ever brand you buy, even the Chinese ones on Ebay from all reports are ok but WARNING - DO NOT EVER USE ANYTHING ELSE BUT AN INVERTER GENERATOR ON YOUR VAN.

If you do I guarantee you will cook the battery charger

johnq wrote:

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Peter,

Thanks so far, but I am now more confused than ever. I get it that earths can and so occur everywhere.

I use the genny in a lot of places, so does everyone else. I accept that any of the usual portable RCDs eg Arlec would be worthless for this application. The van's device is for an entirely different system and is also worthless. None of my tools have an earth plug (all double insulated).

Practically speaking, are you saying to grind off the earth of the (downstream from the genny) male 15amp plug before hooking it up to the van, or do you recommend a portable RCD (what one?) to plug into the genny and take the extension lead off that?

tks John

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Darling John, darling Peter is describing a 1:100,000,000 event.

Darling John carry on as you are and don't to anything dear to change anything. The safest thing you can do is place the generator on a rubber mat outside. Darling that is a good idea apart from a secondary insulation to earth point, also saves the generator sucking up dust with the air cooling air. Darling a portable RCD is as useless. Darling Johne preventative maintenance ensuring leads are in good order, electrical equipment and appliances are correctly maintained and kept clean following the manufacturers instructions darling you won't go far wrong.

johnq wrote:

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Peter,

Thanks so far, but I am now more confused than ever. I get it that earths can and so occur everywhere.

I use the genny in a lot of places, so does everyone else. I accept that any of the usual portable RCDs eg Arlec would be worthless for this application. The van's device is for an entirely different system and is also worthless. None of my tools have an earth plug (all double insulated).

Practically speaking, are you saying to grind off the earth of the (downstream from the genny) male 15amp plug before hooking it up to the van, or do you recommend a portable RCD (what one?) to plug into the genny and take the extension lead off that?

tks John

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 HI John

If they are ALL double insulated tools you have an extremely low risk of a dangerous electrical fault developing

As I said the use of multiple class2 devises[2pin plug devises ] is quite safe

 No do not interfere with the genny or the extension lead in any way

Grinding off the earth pin of the extension lead will not alter the risk

 Unfortunately  Jacko's laughing comment re risk is incorrect

Shocks & Deaths have occurred due to just the sort of problems I indicated .

They can occur ,they have occured

The odds are low but far higher than the joking comments indicate

But if you like playing russian roulette do not take any notice oif my warning

ALSO DO NOT DELIBERATELY CONNECT THE GENERATOR FRAME TO THE GENERAL MASS OF EARTH by an earth stake or any other means

A portable RCD is not functional  with a generator or inverter  no matter where it is plugged in

Neither the van or portable RCD are functional unless suitable & correctly being PERMANENTLY wired in!!

 NOTE: apparent correct operation of the RCD by triping via the test button only tests the RCD mechanism IT does not, in any way, verify correct operation of the system as a whole

This FACT is often not understood

The URCD I mentioned can replace the existing standard RCD & WILL GIVE PROTECTION against all earth faults anywhere in the system

IT must be wired in by an electrician as certain precautions must be taken in how it is fitted

Darling Jacko probably is not even aware of this product, as it relatively new on the market developed  for use with portable generators & the need for reliable protection

Yes by all means follow good practise & ensure all leads etc are in good condition  but unfortunately you cannot see what is going on inside the wall of a van where good workmanship is often nonexistant

 Faults do & have developed in van wiring due to   wiring has not being suitably protected

Metal that should have been adequately bonded to earth [frame] has not been

Screws ,staples etc have penetrated wiring livening unearthed metal

Many could still be sitting out there undetected!

The overall testing& inspection of many vans electrical systems has proven to be very poor

It is well known that much of this wiring is not done by qualified tradesmens

Shocks & near deaths have occurred

These have been personally reported on other forums

Safety is not a matter, I would make a joke of.

Sorry Darling, but I am not amused & perhaps you should do a litle more research

IT is a standard recommendation by many sources including reputable generator  makers ,workplace health & safety,  etc,  to only connect ONE CLASS 1  devise @ any time, just as it always has been with fully isolated supplies,way back from the days of "SAFETY PACKS"

THE SAME PRINCIPLES APPLY

Peter

WHO LACKS A SENSE OF HUMOUR where safety is concerned

John If you require further info just ask ,Iwill endevour to answer any questions /doubts you may have 

But KISS is not always a good idea with electricity

Peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Thursday 15th of September 2011 10:22:26 PM

Darling Johnq you get those that go around promoting irrelevant information trying to make them out as facts for self importance and ego. Darling if there was an issue their would be laws preventing you doing so and warnings promoted and advertised. Darling if you read the manuals that come with generators there is no such warning. Darling why do you think there are no such warnings printed in the manuals because they are unnecessary. Darling the chances of issues with an insulated inverter or generator electrocuting a person would be in the order of probability of grains of sand on a small beach. Darling people that go around constantly promoting scare mongering rubbish are pathetic irksome tiresome tired boring individuals with nothing better to do with their time. Darling these people want to make themselves out to look knowledgeable and important. Darling those that do this think there are no other educated people within that discipline. Darling what Peter is promoting is scare mongering rubbish because the order of probability is off the planet.

Maybe we should all take OT123's advice and lock ourselves in a padded cell for the rest of our lives! Two thousand (approx) people were killed on Aust. roads last year! How many were electrocuted by one of these small generators???? If we're that paranoid we should never get in our car and head out on the road.

Some good ol'fashion common sense in making sure the extension cords are undamaged and correctly wired, likewise appliances and their cords, is all that's needed. The same precautions that apply whether connected to a generator or mains, and whether in the van/RV or at home or work.

PS: As alluded to in earlier posts, make sure that the genny's inverter output is genuine pure sine wave.  If in doubt, assume it isn't.  The top brands are pure sine wave and the output is clean and the frequency (50Hz) is stable.

Hi JackO

Your getting a bit tiresome with your Darling,s etc

It is a fact that elecrocutions have occurred with so caslled isolated power supplies

All states workplace health & safety offices,NOW require that all such generators & inverters have permanently fitted & wired RCD WHY do you suppose THAT regulation has been brought in

 It was due to deaths & accidents

Perhap YOU DARLING ARE NOT EVEN aware of those regulations.

I personally have been involved in investigating shocks receieved while using so called fully isolated supplies 

All have involved to the use of multiple class 1 devises from a single isolated supply

Yes the risk is low, but to make such ridiculous claims as you are DARLING that there is virtually no risk borders on being irresponsible ,DARLING

Why do you think it is mandatory now to have any 240v supplied vehicle fitted with a RCD ?

IT HAS BEEN A STANDARD RECOMMENDATION FOR something like 50years to only have ONE CLASS1 DEVISE connected to an isolated supply to maintain max possible safety[since the entry of SAFETY PACKS to the market]

PERHAPS YOU are not aware or understand the reasoning behind that recommendation, DARLING

My first experience of some one recieving a near fatal shock was when someone used a double adaptor on a safety pack & two clas1 tools on the same job, both those tools were within the required inspection & test period 

As I said It just needs a line to earth fault to develop ANYWHERE in the system& you have an unprotected earthed neutral system. with exactly the same risk factor as a non rcd protected mains supply or cannot you understand THAT!!!, DARLING?

I will repeat what i said at the start" the risk is low but the risk exists , do you want to play russian roulette'???

The quality of workmanship in vans etc is generaly very poor  done by non qualified workers with little regard to the requirements of the AUS standards

There has been plenty of evidence of that

AGAIN perhaps you are not aware of THAT ,DARLING

 The wiring in a van is under far greater stress than fixed wiring in a house

Wiring HAS been damaged by penetration of the insulation

 Shocks & one very seroius shock that I have direct knowledge of have occured for just that reason

Others in the repair industry have reported many cases of dangerous wiring & pierced insulation

ARE you aware of ANY OF THAT ,DARLING?

AsI said perhaps you need to broaden your knowledge DARLING

Try a few other van RV sites !

AS for checking the equipment , leads etc ,yes by all means THAT should be standard practise

But can the average person be aware of insulation degrading ,of what is going on between the van walls

A possible failed earth connection ETC

How many ever get their leads, equipment , van wiring ,tested

IT is up to the individual to make their own decision but that decision should be made knowing there are risks , not based on some blaise advise that it's ALL not true

SUCH AS YOU ARE PREACHING ,DARLING 

I will repeat the risk is low

TO each generator or inverter user plugging into their van power inlet socket consider the above carefully it

 IT IS YOUR DECISION IT IS NOT A MANDATORY REQUIREMENT AT THIS TIME

But it has been seen fit to make the fitting of a permanent RCD MANDATORY in all states in areas covered by workplace health & safety laws

WHY ,because the risk of failure of the fully isolation has been proven ,accidents & deaths have occurred .

IT was expected that by many that the recent revision of the relevent AUS standard AS/NZS 3001 would enforce the the same requirement on ALL generators & inverters but it was put aside @ this stage

Do not be suprised if the next revision does make it  mandatory

So again it is RECOMMENDED practise,That you only have ONE clas1 devise connected @ anytime

IT is your decision

Peter

jimricho wrote:

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Maybe we should all take OT123's advice and lock ourselves in a padded cell for the rest of our lives! Two thousand (approx) people were killed on Aust. roads last year! How many were electrocuted by one of these small generators???? If we're that paranoid we should never get in our car and head out on the road.

Some good ol'fashion common sense in making sure the extension cords are undamaged and correctly wired, likewise appliances and their cords, is all that's needed. The same precautions that apply whether connected to a generator or mains, and whether in the van/RV or at home or work.

PS: As alluded to in earlier posts, make sure that the genny's inverter output is genuine pure sine wave.  If in doubt, assume it isn't.  The top brands are pure sine wave and the output is clean and the frequency (50Hz) is stable.

-- Edited by jimricho on Friday 16th of September 2011 07:45:02 AM

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 HI JIM

All good advise

within the limits of the individuals knowledge /ability

But the Fitting of RCDs is now mandatory & has beenfor quite awhile in homes

WHY,

becauseof the potential dangers of earthed neutral systems

One line to earth fault ANYWHERE in an ISOLATED supply & we have an earthedneutral system with exactly the same potential dangers

Remember it does not have to be a full blown short all it needs is to be able to pass around 40milliamps for electrocution to occur

6kohms will pass 40 milliamps @240v

Peter

Except a van could be considered a highrisk earthedsituation similarto bathrooms ,kitchens .etc in a home

Lots of earthedmetal within easy reach

Have you seen the general standard of van wiring???

Peter