We have finally bought a van and a tow vehicle. The van is a viewfinder - introduced to the Austrlaian market about 15 months ago. TARE weight is 2200 and Aggregated trailer weight is 2800.
To tow this we purchased a 2008 Pathfinder R51 Deisel, automatic.
We took our shake down trip to Lakes Entrance and at speeds above 80, the van swayed and it was rather frightening so we took it nice and slow and did the round tripwithout problems. However we do need to fix this so I am wondering if there is anyone out there who tows with a pathfinder and may have experienced similar issues and what did you do to resolve them? Or if someone knows something about sway and how to overcome it.
The van was not overlaoded, most stuff was under seats in the middle of the van. We do have an extra battery which sits at the front under the A Frame along with the one normally there. The tanks were empty on the way up and had a minimum amount of fresh water on the way back. Car had only two adults, one 9 year old grandson and one border collie.
Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.
Daydreamer
Gerty Dancer said
11:32 AM Jan 3, 2012
Will leave this for the experts. One question ... did you have a weight distribution/anti-sway device fitted?
blaze said
11:35 AM Jan 3, 2012
Does the van sit level when hooked to the tug, there needs to be weight on the drawbar. Get a scale and measure your towhitch weight, guessing is not an option. Have you got a WDH. Sounds like it is loaded too light in the front to me. Where is the water tanks, may be better full. Just some thoughts cheers blaze
Daydreamer said
11:50 AM Jan 3, 2012
Yes, we have a WDH and an anti sway bar - both supplied by the van manufacturer. Once the van was hitched to the vehicle, the back went down noticeably.
daydreamer
Rip and Rosie said
12:12 PM Jan 3, 2012
woops...............the whole rig should be level.
if the tug goes down in the back, there is too much weight on the back wheels.
I'm sure the experts will be on soon, but you will be light on the front wheels, which will affect your steering, and more if its front wheel drive.
davkar said
01:33 PM Jan 3, 2012
Hi Has the van got light truck tyres if not it should. and it is always best to fill water tanks full as this also reduces sway. that may help. IMO Regards
Daydreamer said
01:50 PM Jan 3, 2012
Yes, it does have light truck tyres. The inflation is meant to be 50psi. We can try filling the water tank - but it holds 120l and that is a lot of weight.
daydreamer
JustJim said
03:15 PM Jan 3, 2012
Graham
Which model Viewfinder did you buy?
Jim
Daydreamer said
03:17 PM Jan 3, 2012
The Ossa
Boroma577 said
03:57 PM Jan 3, 2012
davkar wrote:
best to fill water tanks full as this also reduces sway.
You should not have to rely on filling your tanks with water to reduce sway.....that is definitely no solution.
Can you post some pics of it please??
JustJim said
04:11 PM Jan 3, 2012
I should have figured out it's an Ossa Graham..
As has been said - there shouldn't be any reliance on filling water tanks, or not filling them. However - some poorly designed vans do react adversely to tanks being filled or empty..
From what you say, there's something odd going on.. It might be a few days but I'll get some information and get back to you.
Jim
Daydreamer said
04:12 PM Jan 3, 2012
Hello Boroma 577
Cannot send pictures as we have not taken any as yet - we have only hd it for less than one month.
If you get on line and look it up it is the viewfinder by Cell - The Ossa. They ahve several photos of it, specs and a floor plan if that helps.
JustJim said
04:19 PM Jan 3, 2012
Just me again Graham..
(It's damn hot here and i'm not reading posts as closely as I should..)
I've just noticed you said.. "Once the van was hitched to the vehicle, the back went down noticeably."
Was that before or after the WDH was hooked up?
Jim
Daydreamer said
04:46 PM Jan 3, 2012
Hi JustJim
Hot here too. Back of PAthfinder went down when van was put on teh tow ball and remained that way when LDH was attached. No change, then.
By the way, it is Margaret writing.
Boroma577 said
08:06 PM Jan 3, 2012
Daydreamer wrote:
Hello Boroma 577
Cannot send pictures as we have not taken any as yet - we have only hd it for less than one month.
If you get on line and look it up it is the viewfinder by Cell - The Ossa. They ahve several photos of it, specs and a floor plan if that helps.
Hi Margaret, I was looking for pics of your specific setup....not of the brand of caravan. Pics of the van and vehicle hooked up so we could see what was happening.
Can't believe you have had it for almost a month and not taken any pics. I took pics from day 1, even of the handover and driving out the driveway.
-- Edited by Boroma577 on Tuesday 3rd of January 2012 08:07:55 PM
Daydreamer said
08:30 PM Jan 3, 2012
I can understand that but i guess we had different stresses at play. So, no , no pictures taken as yet. It did not seem important but I guess that will be remedied if we can ever get it back and working.
Margaret
signwilson said
10:14 PM Jan 3, 2012
I had a similar problem with a compass and the ball weight was 100kg heavier than quoted when it was empty get the ball weight of the van checked
Daydreamer said
10:16 PM Jan 3, 2012
Will do. If the ball weight is higher than it is supposed to be, how does one correct that?
davkar said
11:22 PM Jan 3, 2012
As I wrote IMO but there is always one in the forum to nit pick . It seem as though in this site there seem to be a click group and if you are not in it the IMO will not count.
Rip and Rosie said
10:14 AM Jan 4, 2012
davkar wrote:
Hi Has the van got light truck tyres if not it should. and it is always best to fill water tanks full as this also reduces sway. that may help. IMO Regards
At the end of 2011 we did a towing course, and we were told to fill the tanks. I have read a few arguments against it though. However, when resolving issues like this, which might just be opinion, I like to get the science behind it all. So far, filling the tanks is winning, and if I remember where I read the physics behind it, I'll post.
Not use about the tyres though- just always thought everyone did this.
Daydreamer wrote:
Will do. If the ball weight is higher than it is supposed to be, how does one correct that?
Your ball weight should not exceed the recommendations for the vehicle, which to my knowledge relates to chassis strength.
You can, I think, either adjust the van (or change it all together) to reduce the weight on the ball, or strengthen the rear suspension of the tug.
The first thing is to ensure the van is constructed and packed efficiently, with most of the weight over the axle(s), and with sufficient weight on the ball.
Then ensure that your hitch is appropriate- WDH appropriate and in place. ... but check the manufacturers specs as some vehicles should not use them.
Lots of people add air bags to the back of their vehicles - but you would need to ask an expert.
However, I'm not sure that this changes the strength of the chassis, but it will assist to keep the back of the vehicle level.
davkar wrote:
As I wrote IMO but there is always one in the forum to nit pick . It seem as though in this site there seem to be a click group and if you are not in it the IMO will not count.
Not sure about this one either. This is the friendliest forum I have ever been on.
Delta18 said
10:32 AM Jan 4, 2012
davkar wrote:
As I wrote IMO but there is always one in the forum to nit pick . It seem as though in this site there seem to be a click group and if you are not in it the IMO will not count.
Sounds to me like you are the one "nit picking" because other people have an opinion.
To my mind (IMO) if the van is correctly designed the level of water should not affect the van handling otherwise you would be looking for a tap to fill up every time you had a glass of water from the tank. (exaggerated but you see what I mean).
Caravan sway is usually a sympton of too little ball weight but until the weight of the van and the ball is measured it is pointless guessing.
Cheers Neil
JustJim said
11:09 AM Jan 4, 2012
The problem with Graham and Margaret's rig has been outlined, and it seems serious.
Speculation rarely helps in cases like this..Different opinions and anecdotal stories often just turn the whole thing into a bun fight.
Neil is right - get some firm facts and we can move on to (hopefully) solve the problem correctly and not pass on inappropriate advice.
Margaret and Graham, I've sent you an email
Jim
davkar said
11:31 AM Jan 4, 2012
I suggest you go back through the fourm and read it and wake up to yourself. As I only offered some help and someone comes along and nit picks.
the rocket said
07:34 PM Jan 4, 2012
Hi,what is an IMO. Cheers.rocketnstrop
the rocket said
07:40 PM Jan 4, 2012
Hi,Congratulations on your purchase. I suggest you go back to where you purchased it and ask them. We purchased our van fromCamperland in Bne. andwe were bamboozled with lots of things and we kept going back and their after sales service was excellent. Hopefully yours will be the same. Good luck. Rocket n strop
Ma said
07:56 PM Jan 4, 2012
IMO - in my opinion
Daydreamer said
08:03 PM Jan 4, 2012
Dear all
Thank you to all for your input. You are all trying to help in your own way with the best of your knowledge and experiences and it is appreciated.
The van is now back where we bought it and on Monday , it will be wieghed while attached to a Navarra. This is similar to he Pathfinder and having a test drive with it on the highway will tell us if we have a problem with the van or with the vehicle. If, as I think, it is the vehicle, then we need to strengthen the read of the car. It is well documented that the pathfinders have a very soft end. Putting heavier coil springs and shockers on the back should help that. If the car is then level, we will see if the van is level and if it is not, it may need the height of the hitch adjusted. In any case, this is the understanding of the discussion with the importer/dealer today. They are being very supportive and seem very willing to problem solve. It is obviously to their benefit to ensure that we come out of this satisfied and with a van set up we can enjoy for many years.
So thank you all again, and I promise to let you have updates as we progress as this will certainly be useful to someone else down the track.
Margaret
Zoomtopz said
10:02 PM Jan 4, 2012
Not 'nit picking or blaming' Margarette .
Was it your driving , Remember not blaming , you mentioned , over 80 it
got a wobble up , was th van trying to push you , especially down hill .
The idea of towing anything , is to keep th prime mover away from th
trailer , so sometimes when we back off or brake the traier wants to
push th prime mover & if we try to compensate , it will wobble or even
jackknife . Your last post suggests you are on th right path to fixing it
though . Mate I have over 45yrs of driving Semis - Road-trains , cars ,
4X4 , Fire Trucks , Ambos & Buses & I STILL do Regular driving courses .
I don't know everything Yet , oh by th way , I have not towed a caravan
yet , so you see I am learning a Lot from this Forum .
Richo
Daydreamer said
10:34 PM Jan 4, 2012
Hello Richo
I am not feeling picked on or blamed, so no need to emphasise that you are not doing so. I have many years of university teaching and in that time, one develops a thick skin.
I am definitely learning. It may well have been the way I was driving. But I took over from my husband driving as when he was driving and complaining about the van swaying, I thought it might have been HIS driving - so I offered to drive. Besides that meant that I could then have something else to concentrate on besides holding my breath as the van swayed.
So, yes lots to learn. I am learning a lot from this forum and will ensure to pass on anything new I learn so that perhaps it may be useful to someone else.
Are you ever going to try towing a van??
All the best
Margaret
Di-n-Gary said
10:36 PM Jan 4, 2012
I'm not advocating another forum is better but on caravanner's forum at the moment , there is a raging debate about caravan sway and the contributers are VERY knowledgable. Collyn Rivers , who is an engineer as well as half a dozen other things, gives a very good insight to caravan sway and its causes. Maybe can give you some answers
Dear all
We have finally bought a van and a tow vehicle. The van is a viewfinder - introduced to the Austrlaian market about 15 months ago. TARE weight is 2200 and Aggregated trailer weight is 2800.
To tow this we purchased a 2008 Pathfinder R51 Deisel, automatic.
We took our shake down trip to Lakes Entrance and at speeds above 80, the van swayed and it was rather frightening so we took it nice and slow and did the round tripwithout problems. However we do need to fix this so I am wondering if there is anyone out there who tows with a pathfinder and may have experienced similar issues and what did you do to resolve them? Or if someone knows something about sway and how to overcome it.
The van was not overlaoded, most stuff was under seats in the middle of the van. We do have an extra battery which sits at the front under the A Frame along with the one normally there. The tanks were empty on the way up and had a minimum amount of fresh water on the way back. Car had only two adults, one 9 year old grandson and one border collie.
Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.
Daydreamer
One question ... did you have a weight distribution/anti-sway device fitted?
cheers
blaze
Yes, we have a WDH and an anti sway bar - both supplied by the van manufacturer. Once the van was hitched to the vehicle, the back went down noticeably.
daydreamer
if the tug goes down in the back, there is too much weight on the back wheels.
I'm sure the experts will be on soon, but you will be light on the front wheels, which will affect your steering, and more if its front wheel drive.
Has the van got light truck tyres if not it should. and it is always best to fill water tanks full as this also reduces sway.
that may help. IMO
Regards
Yes, it does have light truck tyres. The inflation is meant to be 50psi. We can try filling the water tank - but it holds 120l and that is a lot of weight.
daydreamer
Graham
Which model Viewfinder did you buy?
Jim
The Ossa
You should not have to rely on filling your tanks with water to reduce sway.....that is definitely no solution.
Can you post some pics of it please??
I should have figured out it's an Ossa Graham..
As has been said - there shouldn't be any reliance on filling water tanks, or not filling them.
However - some poorly designed vans do react adversely to tanks being filled or empty..
From what you say, there's something odd going on..
It might be a few days but I'll get some information and get back to you.
Jim
Hello Boroma 577
Cannot send pictures as we have not taken any as yet - we have only hd it for less than one month.
If you get on line and look it up it is the viewfinder by Cell - The Ossa. They ahve several photos of it, specs and a floor plan if that helps.
Just me again Graham..
(It's damn hot here and i'm not reading posts as closely as I should..)
I've just noticed you said..
"Once the van was hitched to the vehicle, the back went down noticeably."
Was that before or after the WDH was hooked up?
Jim
Hi JustJim
Hot here too. Back of PAthfinder went down when van was put on teh tow ball and remained that way when LDH was attached. No change, then.
By the way, it is Margaret writing.
Hi Margaret, I was looking for pics of your specific setup....not of the brand of caravan. Pics of the van and vehicle hooked up so we could see what was happening.
Can't believe you have had it for almost a month and not taken any pics. I took pics from day 1, even of the handover and driving out the driveway.
-- Edited by Boroma577 on Tuesday 3rd of January 2012 08:07:55 PM
I can understand that but i guess we had different stresses at play. So, no , no pictures taken as yet. It did not seem important but I guess that will be remedied if we can ever get it back and working.
Margaret
As I wrote IMO but there is always one in the forum to nit pick . It seem as though in this site there seem to be a click group and if you are not in it the IMO will not count.
At the end of 2011 we did a towing course, and we were told to fill the tanks. I have read a few arguments against it though. However, when resolving issues like this, which might just be opinion, I like to get the science behind it all. So far, filling the tanks is winning, and if I remember where I read the physics behind it, I'll post.
Not use about the tyres though- just always thought everyone did this.
Your ball weight should not exceed the recommendations for the vehicle, which to my knowledge relates to chassis strength.
You can, I think, either adjust the van (or change it all together) to reduce the weight on the ball, or strengthen the rear suspension of the tug.
The first thing is to ensure the van is constructed and packed efficiently, with most of the weight over the axle(s), and with sufficient weight on the ball.
Then ensure that your hitch is appropriate- WDH appropriate and in place. ... but check the manufacturers specs as some vehicles should not use them.
Lots of people add air bags to the back of their vehicles - but you would need to ask an expert.
However, I'm not sure that this changes the strength of the chassis, but it will assist to keep the back of the vehicle level.
Not sure about this one either. This is the friendliest forum I have ever been on.
Sounds to me like you are the one "nit picking" because other people have an opinion.
To my mind (IMO) if the van is correctly designed the level of water should not affect the van handling otherwise you would be looking for a tap to fill up every time you had a glass of water from the tank. (exaggerated but you see what I mean).
Caravan sway is usually a sympton of too little ball weight but until the weight of the van and the ball is measured it is pointless guessing.
Cheers Neil
The problem with Graham and Margaret's rig has been outlined, and it seems serious.
Speculation rarely helps in cases like this.. Different opinions and anecdotal stories often just turn the whole thing into a bun fight.
Neil is right - get some firm facts and we can move on to (hopefully) solve the problem correctly and not pass on inappropriate advice.
Margaret and Graham, I've sent you an email
Jim
I suggest you go back through the fourm and read it and wake up to yourself. As I only offered some help and someone comes along and nit picks.
Hi,what is an IMO. Cheers.rocketnstrop
Hi,Congratulations on your purchase. I suggest you go back to where you purchased it and ask them. We purchased our van fromCamperland in Bne. andwe were bamboozled with lots of things and we kept going back and their after sales service was excellent. Hopefully yours will be the same. Good luck. Rocket n strop
IMO - in my opinion
Dear all
Thank you to all for your input. You are all trying to help in your own way with the best of your knowledge and experiences and it is appreciated.
The van is now back where we bought it and on Monday , it will be wieghed while attached to a Navarra. This is similar to he Pathfinder and having a test drive with it on the highway will tell us if we have a problem with the van or with the vehicle. If, as I think, it is the vehicle, then we need to strengthen the read of the car. It is well documented that the pathfinders have a very soft end. Putting heavier coil springs and shockers on the back should help that. If the car is then level, we will see if the van is level and if it is not, it may need the height of the hitch adjusted. In any case, this is the understanding of the discussion with the importer/dealer today. They are being very supportive and seem very willing to problem solve. It is obviously to their benefit to ensure that we come out of this satisfied and with a van set up we can enjoy for many years.
So thank you all again, and I promise to let you have updates as we progress as this will certainly be useful to someone else down the track.
Margaret
Not 'nit picking or blaming' Margarette .
Was it your driving , Remember not blaming , you mentioned , over 80 it
got a wobble up , was th van trying to push you , especially down hill .
The idea of towing anything , is to keep th prime mover away from th
trailer , so sometimes when we back off or brake the traier wants to
push th prime mover & if we try to compensate , it will wobble or even
jackknife . Your last post suggests you are on th right path to fixing it
though . Mate I have over 45yrs of driving Semis - Road-trains , cars ,
4X4 , Fire Trucks , Ambos & Buses & I STILL do Regular driving courses .
I don't know everything Yet , oh by th way , I have not towed a caravan
yet , so you see I am learning a Lot from this Forum .
Richo
Hello Richo
I am not feeling picked on or blamed, so no need to emphasise that you are not doing so. I have many years of university teaching and in that time, one develops a thick skin.
I am definitely learning. It may well have been the way I was driving. But I took over from my husband driving as when he was driving and complaining about the van swaying, I thought it might have been HIS driving - so I offered to drive. Besides that meant that I could then have something else to concentrate on besides holding my breath as the van swayed.
So, yes lots to learn. I am learning a lot from this forum and will ensure to pass on anything new I learn so that perhaps it may be useful to someone else.
Are you ever going to try towing a van??
All the best
Margaret