The sinking of the Centaur by a Jap submarine off Queensland was a real tragedy too. This link give some interesting and sad details of the sinking and also details some atrocities by the Yanks as well.
It is a pity that in the Darwin bombings, some Australian servicemen deserted and fled south, besmirching those who remained. The same thing happened in Singapore, some trying to board ships to escape, although the majority in both these incidents showed the courage that Australian service men and women are renowned for.
-- Edited by Vic on Monday 20th of February 2012 10:52:01 AM
Benwerrin said
03:31 PM Feb 20, 2012
Yes, and it was all 'hush hush' for many years and we were never told the truth and full extent of it until recently.
Dougwe said
03:54 PM Feb 20, 2012
This great country of ours could have been a lot different if any of those attacks on our shores went belly up. We owe thanks to our defence forces of the time (and now of course). I give a BIG THANKYOU to all the men and women that saved our country and my thoughts go out to all those that lost their lives then and other conflicts and their families. I have lost friends while at war and will remember them always.
It's about time Australia remembered these encounters and the people. I must admit that I was not aware as to how bad things were and recent stories and news items have opened my eyes that's for sure.
Thanks Vic for the links.
Firefly said
05:32 PM Feb 20, 2012
Have you ever visited the Adelaide River War Cemetry?
That place blows your mind, its a beautiful tribute to our heroes, both civilians and armed forces alike.
Just a footnote- The American liberty ship, Mv "Arthur Dawes "was torpedoed within sight of Tathra, southern NSW by the japenese sub i .11, IN 1942. Locals rescued the crew. The is a great memorial in the park above the historic jetty at Tahra. Great fishing, also.
Sheba said
05:45 PM Feb 20, 2012
Benwerrin wrote:
we were never told the truth and full extent of it until recently.
Depends what you call Recently. I've got at least one book wrtten about it years ago. I'll check the date it was written next time I'm home.
Cheers,
Sheba.
jimbo said
06:47 PM Feb 20, 2012
Well Shirls and I are right in the middle of it...Sirens rining out parades very stirring stuff were we are on the beach front over looking the Whalf area....The heat is not as bad as Greens lake last year when we got them 40' plus
They say it's because the rains seem to have stopped No humidity at all just dead 34 deg heat So I can handle that..Though I wanted the full Monty..."Oh! well at least I'm breathing....Out to the Casino tonight to pick up a few Hundred tax free
Sheba said
07:15 PM Feb 20, 2012
goinsoon wrote:
If anyone wants a shock, get hold of the book
DARWIN 1942
Taken entirely from fact, it is a real eye opener of what really happened.
Who is the Author, and when was it published GS. ? I know I've got the one by Douglas Lockwood, which I think was first published in about 1956. I think I have another one on the same subject too, but I'll have to get home to check that out.
Cheers,
Sheba.
-- Edited by Sheba on Monday 20th of February 2012 07:21:49 PM
-- Edited by Vic on Monday 20th of February 2012 08:03:41 PM
Vic said
09:25 PM Feb 20, 2012
This is the generally accepted view on how close we did come to being invaded, indeed the Japanese landed a small reconaisance party in NW WA to check out intelligence reports etc.
At one time we were considered an option for invasion, but this was later shelved due to the way the war was going and operational logistics, see;
-- Edited by Vic on Monday 20th of February 2012 09:32:21 PM
Cruising Granny said
12:16 AM Feb 21, 2012
I saw some of the coverage on TV. It seems the commemoration is doing all Australia proud. There are a number of places which the Japanese inflicted and dumped themselves, including Broome and other points south. I hope we never have to relive these events again. Unfortunately we don't really know what some of these underhanded, ruthless barbarians are planning in some of the sneakier corners of the World.
goinsoon said
12:19 AM Feb 21, 2012
If anyone wants a shock, get hold of the book
DARWIN 1942
Taken entirely from fact, it is a real eye opener of what really happened.
Vic said
02:17 AM Feb 21, 2012
I'll keep my eye out for that GS.
Although the Japanese claim they didn't intend to invade Australia, I'll bet if they hadn't had a few setbacks (eg; Kokoda Trail, Coral Sea, Midway etc) things would have been different.
It seems to me they were "softening us up" and gathering intelligence for an invasion. Thank goodness for the Yanks, they saved our bacon and the Brits too.
johnq said
08:52 AM Feb 21, 2012
The Japanese were convinced that the Australian population was armed. Many Australians lived on the land back then and metrosexuals did not exist. That is why the Japanese army was concerned it would need more divisions of troops and it would be costly to maintain order. Resistance fighters are a nuisance as the Germans found in France.
However it is also reported (anecdotal) that the Australian government disarmed all civilians in North Queensland and State governments gave orders for police to report to barracks in time of invasion to 'receive orders' from the Japanese. The government believed that submission would have reduced bloodshed -reduced bloodshed for whom though could be a matter of conjecture.
It is surprising that government records have been held back from researchers for so long after the war and some information remains secret and was probably destroyed. An example of the latter could be the fire-fight that occurred in Brisbane between US negro servicemen and military police (US Army).
Now that most who knew anything are dead we will never know all of the answers.
Vic said
03:33 PM Feb 21, 2012
That's interesting John, obviously based on a "need to know" and the Australian Public wasn't allowed to be privy to those matters, even after the war.
I hadn't heard of the Negro incidents in Brisbane so looked this article up, no doubt just scratching the surface though;
If the book that goinsoon mentioned is the same one I read - a long time ago when the details were first released, its not a history to be proud of at all. It said there were desertions and looting galore in Darwin.
johnq said
08:23 PM Feb 21, 2012
Vic wrote:
That's interesting John, obviously based on a "need to know" and the Australian Public wasn't allowed to be privy to those matters, even after the war.
I hadn't heard of the Negro incidents in Brisbane so looked this article up, no doubt just scratching the surface though;
What needs to be said is that Brisbanites and Australians were not part of any alleged 'racism' towards blacks that may have been part of US military services culture. Australians accepted them alll as men in uniform.
I'd say the very stern discipline of the US military services contributed. There are reports of 'white' servicemen attempting to kill officers too. There are (again anecdotal) reports of MPs using their service .45 Brownings to subdue the occasional rowdy soldier who didn't do what he was told and that was regardless of skin colour.
War is disgusting and rotten through and through. Nothing like the movies.
colsa said
10:03 PM Feb 21, 2012
Thanks for that Vic, very interresting it was all news for me but Col knew about it all, we're still at wattle grove its getting a bit busy here with a couple of really big buses in, they look nice but they had a really big job trying to park. One is over near the pool and they had to bring a truck full of gravel in so they wouldn't bog, the other one is behind us, there about a dozen other vans and a tent here and getting very busy, hope you guys are all good, cheers Ailsa.
Vic said
11:20 PM Feb 21, 2012
G'Day Ailsa,
Been thinking about you two, still good value where you are, nothing cheaper around Perth that I know of. That swimming pool would come in handy too.
We are off to York for a couple of days not this weekend but next. Carol has her van we picked it up today from the mechanics/servicing, so are giving it a test run, I am taking mine just in case she breaks down, meeting some rellies up there.
WW2 was the only war where Australia was really threatened and we had our backs to the wall, we owe our Service men and women and those of our allies in the region a huge debt. In the Swan River near Perth we had a US Flying Boat base they used for their reconaisance flights and other places in WA and Oz in general.
My grandad srved in Darwin during WW2, he with a mobile searchlight unit based on the Elizabeth River he was there from the start to the end and went through many raids, his unit was rumored to have a claimed a zero with Anti Aircraft guns, the raid son Darwin are nothing new actually my favorite subject and a hobby off mine for 30 odd years. My grandads brother was also in Darwin he was with the Heavy Artilley Batts, he was one of the men who worke don the fortifications that were constructed starting pre 1940 and still not finished at wars end the coastal artillery guns of East Point in Darwin never fired a shot. I lived in Darwin for many years my dad was a Policeman there we were there for Cyclone Tracy.
dropbear68 said
04:39 AM Feb 22, 2012
Did u know the Jap force that raided Darwin was the same force that hit Pearl harbour, same ships, planes, pilots etc though when they tried to do it again at Midway the japs copped it hard lost 3 of there front line carriers, but the yanks lost the Yorketown Carrier and they lost the lexington at Coral Sea, basically they traded carrier for carrier, at the end of the day so many allied man paid the ultimate sacrifice, if you look at the losses for Aussie and US sailors killed during the first raid on Darwin its attrocious, many many un identified sailor were buried in a mass grave on the sands of Vesteys Beach, dont know if they were ever reinterred after the war, if you travel to Darwin stop in at the Adelaide River Cemetary where the dead from Darwin and other Pacific campaigns are buried, totally beautiful place, very very well maintained and a fitting place for our dead to lay, wander the rows of dead and look at the ages of the men, so so young.
Sheba said
04:49 AM Feb 22, 2012
My Aunts used to tell us about the Queen St. [Brisbane.] gun-battle between Yanks and Aussie soldiers during the war. Most people probably still haven't heard about it.
They were witnesses to it.
Cheers,
Sheba.
Vic said
09:23 AM Feb 22, 2012
Sheba wrote:
My Aunts used to tell us about the Queen St. [Brisbane.] gun-battle between Yanks and Aussie soldiers during the war. Most people probably still haven't heard about it.
They were witnesses to it.
Cheers,
Sheba.
Here's a link to it Sheba, apparently similar battles with the Yanks happened in other Australian cities also after that, see those mentioned at the bottom of this article;
For those who may be interested on the Anniversary of the Darwin Bombing;
With 64 bombing raids on Darwin in WW2, there were more bombs dropped on Darwin than on Pearl Harbour.
Other towns in WA and Queensland were also bombed, see the info on these further down the link;
http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/ww2/bfa/attack.html
Submarine attacks on Newcastle etc were also done;
http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/underattack/comenace.html
http://www.ozatwar.com/japsubs/japsshell03.htm
And of course the attack by midget subs on Sydney Harbour;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Sydney_Harbour
Lesser known is the shelling of Port Gregory (near Kalbarri) WA and a jap sub sighted off Fremantle;
http://www.ozatwar.com/japsubs/japsshell02.htm
The sinking of the Centaur by a Jap submarine off Queensland was a real tragedy too. This link give some interesting and sad details of the sinking and also details some atrocities by the Yanks as well.
http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/ww2/anecdotes/1943.html
It is a pity that in the Darwin bombings, some Australian servicemen deserted and fled south, besmirching those who remained. The same thing happened in Singapore, some trying to board ships to escape, although the majority in both these incidents showed the courage that Australian service men and women are renowned for.
-- Edited by Vic on Monday 20th of February 2012 10:52:01 AM
Yes, and it was all 'hush hush' for many years and we were never told the truth and full extent of it until recently.
This great country of ours could have been a lot different if any of those attacks on our shores went belly up. We owe thanks to our defence forces of the time (and now of course). I give a BIG THANKYOU to all the men and women that saved our country and my thoughts go out to all those that lost their lives then and other conflicts and their families. I have lost friends while at war and will remember them always.
It's about time Australia remembered these encounters and the people. I must admit that I was not aware as to how bad things were and recent stories and news items have opened my eyes that's for sure.
Thanks Vic for the links.
Have you ever visited the Adelaide River War Cemetry?
That place blows your mind, its a beautiful tribute to our heroes, both civilians and armed forces alike.
http://www.adelaideriverwargraves.com/
Depends what you call Recently. I've got at least one book wrtten about it years ago. I'll check the date it was written next time I'm home.
Cheers,
Sheba.
Well Shirls and I are right in the middle of it...Sirens rining out parades very stirring stuff were we are on the beach front over looking the Whalf area....The heat is not as bad as Greens lake last year when we got them 40' plus
They say it's because the rains seem to have stopped No humidity at all just dead 34 deg heat So I can handle that..Though I wanted the full Monty..."Oh! well at least I'm breathing....Out to the Casino tonight to pick up a few Hundred tax free
-- Edited by Sheba on Monday 20th of February 2012 07:21:49 PM
Here's one too Sheba;
http://woollydays.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/an-awkward-truth-the-story-of-the-1942-darwin-bombing/
And thes ones;
http://www.ozatwar.com/books/darwindefenders.htm
http://www.darwinbombed.com.au/
http://home.iprimus.com.au/sjames1/reviews/r_tucker_bombing_of_darwin.html
-- Edited by Vic on Monday 20th of February 2012 08:03:41 PM
This is the generally accepted view on how close we did come to being invaded, indeed the Japanese landed a small reconaisance party in NW WA to check out intelligence reports etc.
At one time we were considered an option for invasion, but this was later shelved due to the way the war was going and operational logistics, see;
http://www.ozatwar.com/japsland/invade01.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Japanese_invasion_of_Australia_during_World_War_II
http://www.pacificwar.org.au/battaust/JapdebAustinvade.html
-- Edited by Vic on Monday 20th of February 2012 09:32:21 PM
There are a number of places which the Japanese inflicted and dumped themselves, including Broome and other points south.
I hope we never have to relive these events again.
Unfortunately we don't really know what some of these underhanded, ruthless barbarians are planning in some of the sneakier corners of the World.
If anyone wants a shock, get hold of the book
DARWIN 1942
Taken entirely from fact, it is a real eye opener of what really happened.
I'll keep my eye out for that GS.
Although the Japanese claim they didn't intend to invade Australia, I'll bet if they hadn't had a few setbacks (eg; Kokoda Trail, Coral Sea, Midway etc) things would have been different.
It seems to me they were "softening us up" and gathering intelligence for an invasion. Thank goodness for the Yanks, they saved our bacon and the Brits too.
That is why the Japanese army was concerned it would need more divisions of troops and it would be costly to maintain order. Resistance fighters are a nuisance as the Germans found in France.
However it is also reported (anecdotal) that the Australian government disarmed all civilians in North Queensland and State governments gave orders for police to report to barracks in time of invasion to 'receive orders' from the Japanese. The government believed that submission would have reduced bloodshed -reduced bloodshed for whom though could be a matter of conjecture.
It is surprising that government records have been held back from researchers for so long after the war and some information remains secret and was probably destroyed. An example of the latter could be the fire-fight that occurred in Brisbane between US negro servicemen and military police (US Army).
Now that most who knew anything are dead we will never know all of the answers.
That's interesting John, obviously based on a "need to know" and the Australian Public wasn't allowed to be privy to those matters, even after the war.
I hadn't heard of the Negro incidents in Brisbane so looked this article up, no doubt just scratching the surface though;
http://sa.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=7220:racism-and-queenslands-black-mutiny-in-wwii&Itemid=413
I hadn't seen that link before.
What needs to be said is that Brisbanites and Australians were not part of any alleged 'racism' towards blacks that may have been part of US military services culture. Australians accepted them alll as men in uniform.
I'd say the very stern discipline of the US military services contributed. There are reports of 'white' servicemen attempting to kill officers too. There are (again anecdotal) reports of MPs using their service .45 Brownings to subdue the occasional rowdy soldier who didn't do what he was told and that was regardless of skin colour.
War is disgusting and rotten through and through. Nothing like the movies.
G'Day Ailsa,
Been thinking about you two, still good value where you are, nothing cheaper around Perth that I know of. That swimming pool would come in handy too.
We are off to York for a couple of days not this weekend but next. Carol has her van we picked it up today from the mechanics/servicing, so are giving it a test run, I am taking mine just in case she breaks down, meeting some rellies up there.
WW2 was the only war where Australia was really threatened and we had our backs to the wall, we owe our Service men and women and those of our allies in the region a huge debt. In the Swan River near Perth we had a US Flying Boat base they used for their reconaisance flights and other places in WA and Oz in general.
This is an interesting link too;
http://www.hewa.uwa.edu.au/ww2
My grandad srved in Darwin during WW2, he with a mobile searchlight unit based on the Elizabeth River he was there from the start to the end and went through many raids, his unit was rumored to have a claimed a zero with Anti Aircraft guns, the raid son Darwin are nothing new actually my favorite subject and a hobby off mine for 30 odd years. My grandads brother was also in Darwin he was with the Heavy Artilley Batts, he was one of the men who worke don the fortifications that were constructed starting pre 1940 and still not finished at wars end the coastal artillery guns of East Point in Darwin never fired a shot. I lived in Darwin for many years my dad was a Policeman there we were there for Cyclone Tracy.
Did u know the Jap force that raided Darwin was the same force that hit Pearl harbour, same ships, planes, pilots etc though when they tried to do it again at Midway the japs copped it hard lost 3 of there front line carriers, but the yanks lost the Yorketown Carrier and they lost the lexington at Coral Sea, basically they traded carrier for carrier, at the end of the day so many allied man paid the ultimate sacrifice, if you look at the losses for Aussie and US sailors killed during the first raid on Darwin its attrocious, many many un identified sailor were buried in a mass grave on the sands of Vesteys Beach, dont know if they were ever reinterred after the war, if you travel to Darwin stop in at the Adelaide River Cemetary where the dead from Darwin and other Pacific campaigns are buried, totally beautiful place, very very well maintained and a fitting place for our dead to lay, wander the rows of dead and look at the ages of the men, so so young.
My Aunts used to tell us about the Queen St. [Brisbane.] gun-battle between Yanks and Aussie soldiers during the war. Most people probably still haven't heard about it.
They were witnesses to it.
Cheers,
Sheba.
Here's a link to it Sheba, apparently similar battles with the Yanks happened in other Australian cities also after that, see those mentioned at the bottom of this article;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Brisbane
Thanks for that Wombat.
Cheers,
Sheba.
So now I'm a Wombat too ?????
OMG........Vic has been morphed........
That's ok Sheba....join the club. Great mate you are JRH, gunning for me for a single typo identity mistake.......
You can call me anthing you like, but don't call me late for dinner and don't call me a Wombat (joke)
On the subject title, Darwin had more bombs dropped on it than Pearl Harbour and more than Britains most bombed city Coventry......
How lucky were we that the Jap's changed their mind and couldn't agree on invading Oz due to the way the war was going.
-- Edited by Vic on Thursday 23rd of February 2012 03:32:20 PM
That's it Vic now I have you in my sights, it is open season on Wombats you know.
Heeeeeeelp !!!!! How on earth I did that I don't know guys, but I do apologise to you both.
I'm old enough to claim it as a "Seniors' Moment."
Cheers,
Sheba.