Have heard a rumour the RTA are weighing c/vans for weight compliance at roadside weigh bridges. Can anyone coment on this? We thought we were legal... Boy, were we surprised!!!! Did a fair bit of "culling" to get weight down.
Cheers Dellie
Boroma577 said
04:11 AM Feb 26, 2012
There has been much discussion about this in recent times and though I have not personally had the experience, I have read where others have.
To me it is not just the question of the RTA and the law as such but the implications of being overweight and having an accident and your insurance company not paying up.
That, IMO is a far greater concern.
Cruising Granny said
04:26 AM Feb 26, 2012
Every state seems to take a different approach to this issue. I've never weighed my rig, but I do travel fairly light. I put the heaviest stuff in the tug and balance out the rest in the van. I've never been pulled in over the bridge either. And I've never had to go over the weighbridge when I'm on the job either, and neither have any of the trucks I escort. While we carry permits the traffic guys can be picky if the mood takes them. Some is about safety, but much is about revenue, again.
Ma said
04:37 AM Feb 26, 2012
As far as I know, and keep in mind I could be wrong, in NSW the RTA can NOT pull you over and weigh you.
The Police can pull you over and then the RTA can weight you but not the RTA Inspectors on their own.
Beth54 said
04:37 AM Feb 26, 2012
I'll be putting mine over the scales when I'm loaded up, ready to go somewhere. Because I tow my little Nipper with an i30, I have to keep the weight down anyway.
Happywanderer said
04:41 AM Feb 26, 2012
Get your bathroom scales out Beth. The little nipper should just about fit on them.
Beth54 said
04:47 AM Feb 26, 2012
Happywanderer wrote:
Get your bathroom scales out Beth. The little nipper should just about fit on them.
Not as silly as it sounds actually.
Son did some fancy weighing with bathroom scales when I first bought her to see what the ball weight was. Can't remember what it was now...I should have written it down...but he did say it was well and truly under Lucy's limit.
DellieMay said
05:54 AM Feb 26, 2012
Thanks guys... we always try to keep it light, but, from here on in, we'll be very aware of the weight. Cheers dellie
the rocket said
12:38 PM Feb 26, 2012
haven't ever been pulled over. just a thought. Are the vans weighed at a weigh bridge and independent paperwork given for correct weight before you purchase a new van and do they take out the mattress, and anything else not normally in the set design. before they weigh it and therefore those extras become part of the 400kg. allowable. what weight is really counted in the 400kgs.? and also, if you have 2 gas bottles, are the 2 empty bottles counted in the original van weigh or are they extras to be counted in our allowable 400kg. mmmmmm. food for thought and discussion. rocket n strop
sorry. edited for another thought
-- Edited by the rocket on Sunday 26th of February 2012 12:39:35 PM
Gerty Dancer said
04:06 PM Feb 26, 2012
I think the problem with overweight vans is that you are more likely to have problems towing, or be in an accident, and your insurance company will not pay. Why risk it? When we were choosing our caravan we met 2 salesmen who told us quite forcefully that towing limits for vehicles were rubbish and only to be used as a guide, our Prado could tow much more weight than it was rated for. This is scary IMHO... some caravan buyers believe such people, who are only trying to make a sale and dont care about the consequences.
ozjohn said
06:18 PM Feb 26, 2012
Only vehicle/trailer combinations over 4.5 tonne can be legally weighed by the RTA etc. i.e. They must have good cause to believe the rig is in excess of 4.5T.
There are plenty of rigs on the road that exceed 4.5 tonne and as such are legally required to pull into an open weigh station. However the inspectors will just wave you on through. They can ascertain the max legal weight of vans manufactured after June 1989 from the VIN Plate, but would have no idea of van weights before that date. They also have no inkling of the Max tow weight, Max Ball weight, GVM and GCM of each and every tow vehicle on the road. So, unless there is signage that includes caravans, just drive past weigh stations and if they really want you they'll chase you down. It'll never happen.
The only inspections I've seen are for RBT and/or roadworthy checks.
Cheers, Ozjohn.
justcruisin01 said
07:53 PM Feb 26, 2012
Ma wrote:
As far as I know, and keep in mind I could be wrong, in NSW the RTA can NOT pull you over and weigh you.
The Police can pull you over and then the RTA can weight you but not the RTA Inspectors on their own.
I had this discussion last year with a former RTA employee in the heavy traffic side of things & he confirmed what MA has said, IT has to be a combined system of RTA & Police.
JC
Boroma577 said
04:26 AM Feb 27, 2012
the rocket wrote:
Are the vans weighed at a weigh bridge and independent paperwork given for correct weight before you purchase a new van
No rocket, unfortunately this does not happen. Tare weight is a calculated weight based on the design specs of the van. And yes things like the mattress and gas bottles full or empty are ususally not included in the tare weight.
Don't forget the water in your tanks too is also part of your payload....scary, hey??
the rocket said
05:17 AM Feb 27, 2012
Boroma577 wrote:
the rocket wrote:
Are the vans weighed at a weigh bridge and independent paperwork given for correct weight before you purchase a new van
No rocket, unfortunately this does not happen. Tare weight is a calculated weight based on the design specs of the van. And yes things like the mattress and gas bottles full or empty are ususally not included in the tare weight.
Don't forget the water in your tanks too is also part of your payload....scary, hey??
what about microwave, tv and even table screwed to floor is this included or part our the allowable 400kg? Sorry to steal your thread. If you like I can start another. rocket n strop
Boroma577 said
05:42 AM Feb 27, 2012
what about microwave, tv and even table screwed to floor is this included or part our the allowable 400kg? Sorry to steal your thread. If you like I can start another. rocket n strop
No, rocket n strop not sure about those...the table will be included in the tare but not sure about the TV and microwave...but doubt they'd be included in the tare weight though.
The payload is not always 400kg, that is just a rule of thumb. My payload for example is about 620kgs from memory
DellieMay said
09:11 AM Feb 27, 2012
I'll get Roger to tell you a bit of what he's found out... that will be tomorrow. He's sound asleep now. I do know, we are talking about travelling with only 1 water tank full. we've taken the solar off the roof, The battery and inverter now operate from the Patrol.. those alone weighed in about 40kg, I think. The bare necessities. We havw a 21ft Traveller, and are very used to travelling, towing etc, but we were shocked at how much we had to reduce. Cheers Dellie
jonathan said
01:10 PM Feb 27, 2012
Hi folks ..
I did use a public weighbridge in the beginning .. this gave me an insight into what I could and shouldn't carry. As I realised that I wished to spend more and more time simply free-camping, that gave me cause to tow a smallish trailer that houses misc necessities together with additional water and fuel which I couldn't carry within the MH .. apart from the increased weight, it wasn't a safe option.
Remember .. whatever you carry, try to find it as being necessary and consumerable 'cause if you dont use it, you could class it as dead weight. That's ok too if you can afford to do it .. the added costs however of excessive wear and tear on all parts be it on a Tug, Van or MH can be costly ..
I must add that I am on-the-road fulltime ..
Jon
Gerty Dancer said
04:32 PM Feb 27, 2012
Boroma577 wrote:
The payload is not always 400kg, that is just a rule of thumb. My payload for example is about 620kgs from memory
For single axle caravans its usually 300kg's. Doesnt take much to use up that allowance, with water, batteries etc not included in the Tare weight.
Boroma577 said
06:05 PM Feb 27, 2012
Gerty Dancer wrote:
For single axle caravans its usually 300kg's. Doesnt take much to use up that allowance, with water, batteries etc not included in the Tare weight.
Yes...batteries are another weighty object and how often do people stock up on tin food!! More weight.
And the washing machine.....lots of people have them now...also not included in the tare weight.
And it never ceases to amaze why some caravan manufacturers these days are putting ceramic hand basins and toilets into their vans....definitely unnecessary weight.
And how many people get their van home and add a tool box on the draw bar or at the rear and then proceed to fill it up!!
DellieMay said
10:31 PM Feb 27, 2012
Now... THAT'S something we hadn't thought of!!!!! The ceramic hand basin!!! Makes sense now, but would'nt you think it should be included in the tare weight.? Bugger me!!!
Cruising Granny said
10:47 PM Feb 27, 2012
The heavy items of shower, toilet, washing machine and that ceramic basic are often on the rear of the van, behind the axles. It really gives a false impression of "tare" weight. A caravan empty shell without the fixtures and fittings considered to be standard requirement is very misleading. Then they add the fridge, stove, microwave and the bathroom stuff, and water tanks capable of carrying 120kg or more, and the sullage tanks on some motor homes and vans. Then we add crockery, cutlery, cooking pots and food. Tin food is the heaviest. It certainly pays to bare all this in mind when setting up and packing the van. I haven't mentioned the innerspring mattress and linen. And then you add your sewing machine, spinning wheel and craft materials, books, DVD's, TV, set top box, stereo etc, and the essential bevies for happy hour. Cans are lighter than stubbies. Oh, I forgot the dog food and bed for that travelling pet.
ozjohn said
11:04 PM Feb 27, 2012
By law the TARE weight includes everything on the factory order when the van leaves the factory. This includes matresses, empty LPG cylinders, microwave, awning, battery, solar etc.
Items not included on the order and fitted by the dealer form part of the payload, but if included on the order then van should be re-weighed and a replacement VIN Plate affixed. Items added by a previous owner also form part of the payload.
Any manufacturer who removes or excludes items before weighing is committing fraud and should be reported ASAP.
LEGAL DEFINITION OF TARE: Ref VSB1 "Tare Mass is the total mass of the trailer when not carrying any load, but when ready for service, unoccupied (if relevant) and with all fluid reservoirs (if fitted) filled to nominal capacity except for fuel, which shall be 10 litres only, and with all standard equipment and any options fitted. This includes any mass imposed onto the drawing vehicle when the combination vehicle is resting on a horizontal supporting plane. (Fluid reservoirs do not include water tanks and waste water tanks fitted to caravans)".
Cheers Ozjohn.
DellieMay said
11:44 PM Feb 27, 2012
Am writing this for Roger... He's of the opinion, that, if caravan manufacturers abided by the legal defination of tare, as provided by ozjohn, a lot of the weight problems would go away, or perhaps, not ordering everything thru the factory is part of the problem. Cheers Dellie
the rocket said
03:31 AM Feb 28, 2012
boy, this sure has been an interesting thread. thanks for asking about it. cheers. and happy caravannning. rocket n strop
Boroma577 said
07:00 AM Feb 28, 2012
DellieMay wrote:
Now... THAT'S something we hadn't thought of!!!!! The ceramic hand basin!!! Makes sense now, but would'nt you think it should be included in the tare weight.? Bugger me!!!
I am not saying that the ceramic hand basin is not included in the Tare......what I am saying is that if manufacturers were to use plastic handbasins, toilets etc it would keep the tare weight down and therefore hopefully give you more payload.
ozjohn said
10:28 AM Feb 28, 2012
-- Edited by ozjohn on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 10:31:31 AM
Gerty Dancer said
04:42 PM Feb 28, 2012
DellieMay wrote:
Am writing this for Roger... He's of the opinion, that, if caravan manufacturers abided by the legal defination of tare, as provided by ozjohn, a lot of the weight problems would go away, or perhaps, not ordering everything thru the factory is part of the problem. Cheers Dellie
Yess! We agree wholeheartedly with Roger!
ozjohn said
06:29 PM Feb 28, 2012
ozjohn wrote:
Many manufacturers will give you almost any payload you request providing it's within the chassis ATM/GTM and drawbar capabilities. We've a 17'6" Pop Top, but it has a 720Kg payload allowance. We could never in a million years utilise that much allowance. and we'd also exceed the vehicle and tow bar capacity. Cheers, ozjohn.
Cheers Dellie
There has been much discussion about this in recent times and though I have not personally had the experience, I have read where others have.
To me it is not just the question of the RTA and the law as such but the implications of being overweight and having an accident and your insurance company not paying up.
That, IMO is a far greater concern.
I've never been pulled in over the bridge either.
And I've never had to go over the weighbridge when I'm on the job either, and neither have any of the trucks I escort.
While we carry permits the traffic guys can be picky if the mood takes them.
Some is about safety, but much is about revenue, again.
As far as I know, and keep in mind I could be wrong, in NSW the RTA can NOT pull you over and weigh you.
The Police can pull you over and then the RTA can weight you but not the RTA Inspectors on their own.
I'll be putting mine over the scales when I'm loaded up, ready to go somewhere. Because I tow my little Nipper with an i30, I have to keep the weight down anyway.
Son did some fancy weighing with bathroom scales when I first bought her to see what the ball weight was. Can't remember what it was now...I should have written it down...but he did say it was well and truly under Lucy's limit.
Cheers dellie
haven't ever been pulled over. just a thought. Are the vans weighed at a weigh bridge and independent paperwork given for correct weight before you purchase a new van and do they take out the mattress, and anything else not normally in the set design. before they weigh it and therefore those extras become part of the 400kg. allowable. what weight is really counted in the 400kgs.? and also, if you have 2 gas bottles, are the 2 empty bottles counted in the original van weigh or are they extras to be counted in our allowable 400kg. mmmmmm. food for thought and discussion. rocket n strop
sorry. edited for another thought
-- Edited by the rocket on Sunday 26th of February 2012 12:39:35 PM
When we were choosing our caravan we met 2 salesmen who told us quite forcefully that towing limits for vehicles were rubbish and only to be used as a guide, our Prado could tow much more weight than it was rated for. This is scary IMHO... some caravan buyers believe such people, who are only trying to make a sale and dont care about the consequences.
Only vehicle/trailer combinations over 4.5 tonne can be legally weighed by the RTA etc. i.e. They must have good cause to believe the rig is in excess of 4.5T.
There are plenty of rigs on the road that exceed 4.5 tonne and as such are legally required to pull into an open weigh station.
However the inspectors will just wave you on through.
They can ascertain the max legal weight of vans manufactured after June 1989 from the VIN Plate, but would have no idea of van weights before that date.
They also have no inkling of the Max tow weight, Max Ball weight, GVM and GCM of each and every tow vehicle on the road.
So, unless there is signage that includes caravans, just drive past weigh stations and if they really want you they'll chase you down. It'll never happen.
The only inspections I've seen are for RBT and/or roadworthy checks.
Cheers, Ozjohn.
I had this discussion last year with a former RTA employee in the heavy traffic side of things & he confirmed what MA has said, IT has to be a combined system of RTA & Police.
JC
No rocket, unfortunately this does not happen. Tare weight is a calculated weight based on the design specs of the van. And yes things like the mattress and gas bottles full or empty are ususally not included in the tare weight.
Don't forget the water in your tanks too is also part of your payload....scary, hey??
what about microwave, tv and even table screwed to floor is this included or part our the allowable 400kg? Sorry to steal your thread. If you like I can start another. rocket n strop
No, rocket n strop not sure about those...the table will be included in the tare but not sure about the TV and microwave...but doubt they'd be included in the tare weight though.
The payload is not always 400kg, that is just a rule of thumb. My payload for example is about 620kgs from memory
Cheers Dellie
Hi folks ..
I did use a public weighbridge in the beginning .. this gave me an insight into what I could and shouldn't carry. As I realised that I wished to spend more and more time simply free-camping, that gave me cause to tow a smallish trailer that houses misc necessities together with additional water and fuel which I couldn't carry within the MH .. apart from the increased weight, it wasn't a safe option.
Remember .. whatever you carry, try to find it as being necessary and consumerable 'cause if you dont use it, you could class it as dead weight. That's ok too if you can afford to do it .. the added costs however of excessive wear and tear on all parts be it on a Tug, Van or MH can be costly ..
I must add that I am on-the-road fulltime ..
Jon
For single axle caravans its usually 300kg's. Doesnt take much to use up that allowance, with water, batteries etc not included in the Tare weight.
Yes...batteries are another weighty object and how often do people stock up on tin food!! More weight.
And the washing machine.....lots of people have them now...also not included in the tare weight.
And it never ceases to amaze why some caravan manufacturers these days are putting ceramic hand basins and toilets into their vans....definitely unnecessary weight.
And how many people get their van home and add a tool box on the draw bar or at the rear and then proceed to fill it up!!
It really gives a false impression of "tare" weight. A caravan empty shell without the fixtures and fittings considered to be standard requirement is very misleading.
Then they add the fridge, stove, microwave and the bathroom stuff, and water tanks capable of carrying 120kg or more, and the sullage tanks on some motor homes and vans.
Then we add crockery, cutlery, cooking pots and food. Tin food is the heaviest.
It certainly pays to bare all this in mind when setting up and packing the van.
I haven't mentioned the innerspring mattress and linen.
And then you add your sewing machine, spinning wheel and craft materials, books, DVD's, TV, set top box, stereo etc, and the essential bevies for happy hour. Cans are lighter than stubbies.
Oh, I forgot the dog food and bed for that travelling pet.
By law the TARE weight includes everything on the factory order when the van leaves the factory. This includes matresses, empty LPG cylinders, microwave, awning, battery, solar etc.
Items not included on the order and fitted by the dealer form part of the payload, but if included on the order then van should be re-weighed and a replacement VIN Plate affixed. Items added by a previous owner also form part of the payload.
Any manufacturer who removes or excludes items before weighing is committing fraud and should be reported ASAP.
LEGAL DEFINITION OF TARE: Ref VSB1
"Tare Mass is the total mass of the trailer when not carrying any load, but when ready for service, unoccupied (if relevant) and with all fluid reservoirs (if fitted) filled to nominal capacity except for fuel, which shall be 10 litres only, and with all standard equipment and any options fitted. This includes any mass imposed onto the drawing vehicle when the combination vehicle is resting on a horizontal supporting plane. (Fluid reservoirs do not include water tanks and waste water tanks fitted to caravans)".
Cheers Ozjohn.
Cheers Dellie
boy, this sure has been an interesting thread. thanks for asking about it. cheers. and happy caravannning. rocket n strop
I am not saying that the ceramic hand basin is not included in the Tare......what I am saying is that if manufacturers were to use plastic handbasins, toilets etc it would keep the tare weight down and therefore hopefully give you more payload.
-- Edited by ozjohn on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 10:31:31 AM
Yess! We agree wholeheartedly with Roger!