Dusty has a very long history of lower back pain. He has suffered from chronic lower back discomfort, with fairly severe episodic flare-ups.
His CT lumbosacral spine demonstrates quite severe degeneration of the L5/S1 intervertebral disc with autofusion at this level.
L5/S1 Severe disc space narrowing, exiting L5 nerves intact with descending right S1 nerve root.
In other words, it will NOT go away with rest.
I have had two spinal blocker injections, the first lasted about three weeks. The second has lasted for six months with occassional periods of intense pain, but on the whole not too bad.
Auto fusion is when the bones naturally fuse themselves together, better than the surgeons "bolting" them together.
As for the collapsing discs narrowing and the risk of severing a nerve, I have been advised by my GP to put off any surgery for as long as possible. He also agrees with you and me that the very last thing we need is a surgeon.
The pain management specialist I go too has been brilliant.
I do hydrotherapy and attend a one on one gym session to strengthen the core muscles twice a week.
Also use as many back saving devices as possible.
Caravan legs are put up and down using cordless drill/impact wrench. Use a small folding trolley to move heavy objects, a tyre lifter is carried should I need to change a tyre. Cordless impact wrench for undoing wheel nuts, etc.
Told by the nuero surgeon that I should take it easy, sailing would not be good for my back.
Rubbish was my reply, I'm not going to stop living. Once again we modified things o suit, electric winches, autopilot, etc.
What I am trying to say to you, Bob, is modify your life style to suit the injury and all will be well, nothing is impossible.
Mine is the result of a war injury and I have had to live with it for thrity years.
No big deal unless I want to feel sorry for myself.
Haven't got time for that.
Cheers
Dusty
-- Edited by Landfall on Monday 27th of February 2012 11:10:15 PM
Bent Axle Bob said
04:27 AM Feb 28, 2012
Yeah , you know the one, central lower back. After years of minor(and some not so minor) I got the jackpot 12 days ago. An innoccuous 2 hours on the roof cleaning gutters. No problems until the next morning Finally went to the DR 4 days later, prescribed a mild painkiller and told to go to the physio. 3 sessions no improvement, was suggested I go to chiro. I said no, lets find out what the problem is with a CT. Herniated disc at L5 with nerve probs as well. So,,,,another week of rest,see if any improvement, next step, cortisone injections. If that doesn't work Surgery I'm a wuss, so all plans are on hold for a while
Firefly said
05:09 AM Feb 28, 2012
Oh Bob, sorry to hear that mate, I do hope the rest does the trick x o x o
PeterS said
05:42 AM Feb 28, 2012
I have problem with lower back, have had for years but Chiro keeps it in line quite well. NO WAY I willlet anyone near my spine with a knife, have seen to many mates have back ops and end up worse than they were before
Bent Axle Bob said
06:02 AM Feb 28, 2012
Thanks Firefly. Yes pete. mine was instigated by a farm harvest accident at 14yo. Then 18 years ago I had a work related accident which resulted in 3 vertebral compression fractures . Hence my reluctance with chiro. I'll just wuss it out for a few weeks and see what happens
neilnruth said
06:03 AM Feb 28, 2012
Oh dear. Better get gutterguard so you don't have to do that job again!
justjo said
06:29 AM Feb 28, 2012
Oh No Bob, hope it get's sorted so you can sort out that bus. Back trouble can be so debilitating. Fingers crossed it comes good without surgery.
Jo
Cruising Granny said
07:47 AM Feb 28, 2012
We learn to work within out limits when we live with pain. Whether it's back or arthritis we adjust. I had surgery in 2006 with a replacement spacer inserted in L4/L5. The pain down my pelvis and legs is gone. I use to call it my "back bum ache". If you say you won't have surgery, you are not in enough pain yet. I can tell you when you've had enough you will beg the neurosurgeon to fix it, and he can. I don't go to chiro anymore. They are too abrupt and rough these days with gadgets and dropping couches. I have been to physio when my back is crook enough, but I get better results from hydrotherapy if there's a pool near you. The one I go to at Salisbury, SA is attended by a physio in the pool who personalises exercises and movements in the pool. If you go somewhere in this country with thermal pools eg Moree, Katherine, Lightening Ridge etc wallow in the pond for a couple of days. You will never be the same.
Vic said
11:43 AM Feb 28, 2012
Hi Bob,
I suffered a lot of back problems and at one stage was dragging my leg along, couldn't put my foot up stairs etc. My doc told me it was arthritis after an Xray etc.
It turned out to be a pinched nerve in my back, one day I was lifting a heavy plant pot (bending over) and it release the nerve by opening up the spine, it was like someone had waved a magic wand.
I was going to a health club then and one of the instructors told me that when I get pains in the back to bend my knees a little bit, and lean forward and downwards slowly (no bouncing or jerking) as much as I could, touch your toes if you can, but just as far as you can comfortably go. Breath normally and hold that pose for about 30 seconds THEN very slowly come back up again. He explained that sometimes a nerver gets pinched in between the vertabrae when leaning down, standing up etc and needs to be released.
He said it was like a slow moving elastic band, so by leaning down and holding it in the position briefly and opening the spine it gave the nerve time to release and then coming back up again slowly made sure it didn't get pinched again.
Whenever I get pains in my back now, say after gardening or something (or even having a walk) I do this once or twice and bingo, pain gone, it is incredible.....Please note do not do this if you have a serious back problem though, but worth a try and pretty harmless.....
-- Edited by Vic on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 11:44:08 AM
Landfall said
03:19 PM Feb 28, 2012
Cruising Granny wrote:
We learn to work within out limits when we live with pain. Whether it's back or arthritis we adjust. I had surgery in 2006 with a replacement spacer inserted in L4/L5. The pain down my pelvis and legs is gone. I use to call it my "back bum ache". If you say you won't have surgery, you are not in enough pain yet. I can tell you when you've had enough you will beg the neurosurgeon to fix it, and he can.
I won't have surgery because my GP advises me not too.
Pain, I have lived with the pain for thirty years. When asked by my pain management specialist to describe the pain and rate it on a scale of ten.
I reply it starts at level three, never below and hits a top of fifteen. Like you have described it goes down the legs, in my case it goes to the left knee and it is like someone places a bowie knife in a fire till it is red hot, then jabs it into my knee.
Back in 2006 when you where having surgery, I was told I would be in a wheel chair by 2010.
Thru good treatment, sensible use of medication and advice from very good doctors I am more mobile now than ever.
Both my GP and nuerosurgeon have on numerous occasions told me that the VERY last resort is surgery.
MY GP has told me he has seen too many failures after surgery and beware.
I am pleased to see that it has worked for you CG.
Dusty
pauline said
03:56 PM Feb 28, 2012
I have found that if you can find a really good one Acupuncture is great, fixed my lower back problem many years ago, and if you can find one who is also a registered Doctor you can claim it on Medicare, my Doctor was chinese and really knew what he was doing.........give it a go, I would rather that then go under the knife.
Cheers
Gerty Dancer said
05:59 PM Feb 28, 2012
I have had acupuncture for several problems, and I wasnt expecting anything except pain relief, and it seems very good for that. I wouldnt think it could fix physical damage to your spine, but makes me feel better!
For RSI, after a few treatments I was better and it has never returned.
Bent Axle Bob said
06:17 PM Feb 28, 2012
Thanks everybody ! Have no fear, I am not giving up and reaching for the zimmer frame just yet! Hell no , I'm a typical stubborn Aries male. Just a couple of weeks recuperation and then slowly get some light physio and hydrotherapy and see what happens.
Luckily, the bus has no real major tasks to be done, only fitment of water tanks and extra fuel tank, which I will delegate to my son and grandson Adaptation is the name of the game from there
B-T said
06:18 PM Feb 28, 2012
I have the classical pain in the neck, getting worse with activity. Eventually went to the Dr for a full review. An X-ray showed a huge wedge shaped gap across the verebrae at the top of the neck. Appears to be only attached at one side. Even to my in-experienced wyes it looks ugly. Oh well see what the Dr says tomorrow.
John
Bent Axle Bob said
07:00 PM Feb 28, 2012
Ouch.
milo said
10:28 PM Feb 28, 2012
i had a spinal cord op a few years ago after a fall, but all good now, i was lucky i went to a specialist in the right time i could have been in a wheel chair if i left it any longer..
Gerty Dancer said
02:33 AM Feb 29, 2012
B-T wrote:
I have the classical pain in the neck, getting worse with activity. Eventually went to the Dr for a full review. An X-ray showed a huge wedge shaped gap across the verebrae at the top of the neck. Appears to be only attached at one side. Even to my in-experienced wyes it looks ugly. Oh well see what the Dr says tomorrow.
John
Good luck, hope the Doc says he can fix this easy?!!!
Frog53 said
02:57 AM Feb 29, 2012
Yeah know where your coming from Bob - had an operation in 2007 on my spine where they had to remove bone to allow my sciatic nerve and crushed disc to be free, done at the Alfred in melbourne - great people these nero surgeons unfortunately my operation wasn't totally succesful had to have another one in 2009 and told I would probably have trouble walking. Made me a lot better and have no trouble walking - changed my life style, exercise more the thing is you have to adapt as cruising granny said I put up with it for a further two years till the pain just kills to cough or eat my only suggestion is whats good for one might not be good for the other fellow do your research and make up your own mind. Good Health and take care.
David
Cruising Granny said
04:14 AM Feb 29, 2012
We and our backs are individual and everyone has something slightly different. I has acupuncture, cortisone injections, and many other tests and a lot of pain pills, and I was almost to the point of a walking frame. Swimming was a great relief because there's no pressure while hanging in the water from my noodle. A natural stretch. I work fairly hard to keep strength and flexibility, and I can touch my toes with no trouble at all. I have reduced the amount of pain medication I use. I have also been to pain management sessions but there are too many things going on so be really effective. My head is the biggest problem. Not the appearance, but the contents. I get frustrated, even angry because I can't do what I want to without some form of discomfort getting in my way. The interesting thing for me is I can drive all day with no problems. It's the standing out on the ground that hurts. Getting out of the Landcruiser is easy. Getting out of a little, low car is another matter. Keep strong and flexible everyone.
deb-gary said
04:56 AM Feb 29, 2012
granny you are spot on we are all different and our bodies react differently but id give my eye teeth for a good back!!!
justcruisin01 said
05:00 AM Feb 29, 2012
Bent Axle Bob wrote:
Yeah , you know the one, central lower back. After years of minor(and some not so minor) I got the jackpot 12 days ago. An innoccuous 2 hours on the roof cleaning gutters. No problems until the next morning Finally went to the DR 4 days later, prescribed a mild painkiller and told to go to the physio. 3 sessions no improvement, was suggested I go to chiro. I said no, lets find out what the problem is with a CT. Herniated disc at L5 with nerve probs as well. So,,,,another week of rest,see if any improvement, next step, cortisone injections. If that doesn't work Surgery I'm a wuss, so all plans are on hold for a while
I know exactly where you are comming from & where you are going with this, I've have been there for years. Mate , get your self a container of RAPIGEL, from a produce supplier, I have been chiro free for more than 12mths now with a little help from the good wife with massage.
JC.
Bent Axle Bob said
12:20 PM Mar 1, 2012
Have spent the last four days staying closer to my heat packs that a just wed couple on honeymoon. That and resting has made a remarkable difference! Wouldn't say I'm pain free, but just one painkiller in the last 36 hours(yesterday at 5pm) and moving a lot better than I have for the last 2+weeks. So, more of the same and no lifting anything heavier than a schooner!!
cheers everyone
-- Edited by Bent Axle Bob on Thursday 1st of March 2012 12:22:46 PM
Cruising Granny said
06:16 AM Mar 2, 2012
I need a live-in back massager it seems. I take 4 Panadiene Forte every day, sometimes 6, to stay upright. Lying down is the worst thing I can do unless I sleep. Then it's wake up, get up, feet on the floor. I'm always grateful to be able to put both fee on the floor in the morning.
Bent Axle Bob said
05:04 PM Mar 2, 2012
I know what you mean about lying down> I haven't been able to sleep in my bed since this happened. Alignment of the spine results in pressure on the nerve at L5 . BUT...have found that I can get comfortable enough to sleep in the old recliner.Hoping in the next week to start a little hydro therapy at the local rec centre and rebuild core back strength again. Pain is a very personal thing , but I usually try to avoid painkillers when ever I can as I watched, as a kid, my mother become addicted to prescription drugs that eventually killed her
justjo said
03:35 PM Mar 8, 2012
Hope the back is still improving Bob and you are sleeping horizontal again!
My sympathies to everyone in pain especially when it restricts your life.
Hi Bob,
Does this sound familiar?
Dusty has a very long history of lower back pain. He has suffered from chronic lower back discomfort, with fairly severe episodic flare-ups.
His CT lumbosacral spine demonstrates quite severe degeneration of the L5/S1 intervertebral disc with autofusion at this level.
L5/S1 Severe disc space narrowing, exiting L5 nerves intact with descending right S1 nerve root.
In other words, it will NOT go away with rest.
I have had two spinal blocker injections, the first lasted about three weeks. The second has lasted for six months with occassional periods of intense pain, but on the whole not too bad.
Auto fusion is when the bones naturally fuse themselves together, better than the surgeons "bolting" them together.
As for the collapsing discs narrowing and the risk of severing a nerve, I have been advised by my GP to put off any surgery for as long as possible. He also agrees with you and me that the very last thing we need is a surgeon.
The pain management specialist I go too has been brilliant.
I do hydrotherapy and attend a one on one gym session to strengthen the core muscles twice a week.
Also use as many back saving devices as possible.
Caravan legs are put up and down using cordless drill/impact wrench. Use a small folding trolley to move heavy objects, a tyre lifter is carried should I need to change a tyre. Cordless impact wrench for undoing wheel nuts, etc.
Told by the nuero surgeon that I should take it easy, sailing would not be good for my back.
Rubbish was my reply, I'm not going to stop living. Once again we modified things o suit, electric winches, autopilot, etc.
What I am trying to say to you, Bob, is modify your life style to suit the injury and all will be well, nothing is impossible.
Mine is the result of a war injury and I have had to live with it for thrity years.
No big deal unless I want to feel sorry for myself.
Haven't got time for that.
Cheers
Dusty
-- Edited by Landfall on Monday 27th of February 2012 11:10:15 PM
Yeah , you know the one, central lower back. After years of minor(and some not so minor) I got the jackpot 12 days ago. An innoccuous 2 hours on the roof cleaning gutters. No problems until the next morning Finally went to the DR 4 days later, prescribed a mild painkiller and told to go to the physio. 3 sessions no improvement, was suggested I go to chiro. I said no, lets find out what the problem is with a CT. Herniated disc at L5 with nerve probs as well. So,,,,another week of rest,see if any improvement, next step, cortisone injections. If that doesn't work Surgery I'm a wuss, so all plans are on hold for a while
Oh Bob, sorry to hear that mate, I do hope the rest does the trick x o x o
Thanks Firefly. Yes pete. mine was instigated by a farm harvest accident at 14yo. Then 18 years ago I had a work related accident which resulted in 3 vertebral compression fractures . Hence my reluctance with chiro. I'll just wuss it out for a few weeks and see what happens
Jo
I had surgery in 2006 with a replacement spacer inserted in L4/L5. The pain down my pelvis and legs is gone. I use to call it my "back bum ache".
If you say you won't have surgery, you are not in enough pain yet. I can tell you when you've had enough you will beg the neurosurgeon to fix it, and he can.
I don't go to chiro anymore. They are too abrupt and rough these days with gadgets and dropping couches.
I have been to physio when my back is crook enough, but I get better results from hydrotherapy if there's a pool near you.
The one I go to at Salisbury, SA is attended by a physio in the pool who personalises exercises and movements in the pool.
If you go somewhere in this country with thermal pools eg Moree, Katherine, Lightening Ridge etc wallow in the pond for a couple of days. You will never be the same.
Hi Bob,
I suffered a lot of back problems and at one stage was dragging my leg along, couldn't put my foot up stairs etc. My doc told me it was arthritis after an Xray etc.
It turned out to be a pinched nerve in my back, one day I was lifting a heavy plant pot (bending over) and it release the nerve by opening up the spine, it was like someone had waved a magic wand.
I was going to a health club then and one of the instructors told me that when I get pains in the back to bend my knees a little bit, and lean forward and downwards slowly (no bouncing or jerking) as much as I could, touch your toes if you can, but just as far as you can comfortably go. Breath normally and hold that pose for about 30 seconds THEN very slowly come back up again. He explained that sometimes a nerver gets pinched in between the vertabrae when leaning down, standing up etc and needs to be released.
He said it was like a slow moving elastic band, so by leaning down and holding it in the position briefly and opening the spine it gave the nerve time to release and then coming back up again slowly made sure it didn't get pinched again.
Whenever I get pains in my back now, say after gardening or something (or even having a walk) I do this once or twice and bingo, pain gone, it is incredible.....Please note do not do this if you have a serious back problem though, but worth a try and pretty harmless.....
-- Edited by Vic on Tuesday 28th of February 2012 11:44:08 AM
Cheers
For RSI, after a few treatments I was better and it has never returned.
Thanks everybody ! Have no fear, I am not giving up and reaching for the zimmer frame just yet! Hell no , I'm a typical stubborn Aries male. Just a couple of weeks recuperation and then slowly get some light physio and hydrotherapy and see what happens.
Luckily, the bus has no real major tasks to be done, only fitment of water tanks and extra fuel tank, which I will delegate to my son and grandson Adaptation is the name of the game from there
John
Ouch.
i could have been in a wheel chair if i left it any longer..
Good luck, hope the Doc says he can fix this easy?!!!
Yeah know where your coming from Bob - had an operation in 2007 on my spine where they had to remove bone to allow my sciatic nerve and crushed disc to be free, done at the Alfred in melbourne - great people these nero surgeons unfortunately my operation wasn't totally succesful had to have another one in 2009 and told I would probably have trouble walking. Made me a lot better and have no trouble walking - changed my life style, exercise more the thing is you have to adapt as cruising granny said I put up with it for a further two years till the pain just kills to cough or eat my only suggestion is whats good for one might not be good for the other fellow do your research and make up your own mind. Good Health and take care.
David
I has acupuncture, cortisone injections, and many other tests and a lot of pain pills, and I was almost to the point of a walking frame.
Swimming was a great relief because there's no pressure while hanging in the water from my noodle. A natural stretch.
I work fairly hard to keep strength and flexibility, and I can touch my toes with no trouble at all.
I have reduced the amount of pain medication I use. I have also been to pain management sessions but there are too many things going on so be really effective.
My head is the biggest problem. Not the appearance, but the contents. I get frustrated, even angry because I can't do what I want to without some form of discomfort getting in my way.
The interesting thing for me is I can drive all day with no problems. It's the standing out on the ground that hurts.
Getting out of the Landcruiser is easy. Getting out of a little, low car is another matter.
Keep strong and flexible everyone.
I know exactly where you are comming from & where you are going with this, I've have been there for years. Mate , get your self a container of RAPIGEL, from a produce supplier, I have been chiro free for more than 12mths now with a little help from the good wife with massage.
JC.
Have spent the last four days staying closer to my heat packs that a just wed couple on honeymoon. That and resting has made a remarkable difference! Wouldn't say I'm pain free, but just one painkiller in the last 36 hours(yesterday at 5pm) and moving a lot better than I have for the last 2+weeks. So, more of the same and no lifting anything heavier than a schooner!!
cheers everyone
-- Edited by Bent Axle Bob on Thursday 1st of March 2012 12:22:46 PM
I'm always grateful to be able to put both fee on the floor in the morning.
I know what you mean about lying down> I haven't been able to sleep in my bed since this happened. Alignment of the spine results in pressure on the nerve at L5 . BUT...have found that I can get comfortable enough to sleep in the old recliner.Hoping in the next week to start a little hydro therapy at the local rec centre and rebuild core back strength again. Pain is a very personal thing , but I usually try to avoid painkillers when ever I can as I watched, as a kid, my mother become addicted to prescription drugs that eventually killed her
My sympathies to everyone in pain especially when it restricts your life.
Cheers
Jo