Handouts help nobody as they never learn from their mistakes, the American car industry collapsed because they didn't change to the markets requirements, The Japs came out with their mini car versions and the public devoured their products, meanwhile the yank tanks kept coming off the assembly line to an ever diminishing market and something had to give...and it was Detroit and their unwanted monsters.
The same with the Swiss and their worlds best watches, they still are the best timepiece in the world, but the asians again found a better and cheaper way make watches, at the end of the day the time was exactly the same on both...bingo, good bye the Swiss watch market.
The above scenarios are played out everyday around the world as ego spoilt companies refuse to believe that their product is no longer a public want or need.
Holden still has the Commodore and it's offshoots as it's flag carrier, they and their like started to lose favour with the public over a decade ago, still they persist...WHY, with the benefit of government support and nothing else, that's why.
The biggest joke of all was the handout to Toyota a couple of years ago, the government should hang its head in shame for giving them $75 million to stay around.
It's about time that governments grew the balls to say NO to these massive companies, instead, tell them to change their marketing and product because it's not good enough and people don't want it.
The strange and ironic thing is, when the same thing happens to a government, they get 'tossed out' on their ear, without a lifeline...tomorrow will be a classic example of that.
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Friday 23rd of March 2012 04:11:25 PM
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Friday 23rd of March 2012 04:13:18 PM
Landfall said
08:30 PM Mar 23, 2012
Do you agree with the handout to Holden?
Why doesn't any small business get a handout?
Should for instance, the caravan manufacturing industry in Australia get a big handout, so they can afford to do more research into design and modernise.
How much is keeping people employed in inefficient industries really worth?
Dusty
Yuglamron said
09:41 PM Mar 23, 2012
A few questions re the Holden?GM handout.
What will the Ford boys say.
What about all the other companies doing it tough.
What about the big four banks,they are having it tough too.The cost of money to them is expensive now.
I did hear Holden exports hundreds of millions of dollars worth of engines to other parts of the world at very good tax breaks for them.
Holden export cars from Australia to the middle East also with good tax breaks.
I would suggest that it is sink or swim is the way to go with apollogies to those who will lose their jobs because of BAD management.
There will still be a need for the car market to sell aprox the same number of cars in Australia so why penalise other makers who do not need hand outs.
jack biggles said
10:30 PM Mar 23, 2012
Waste of time. Holden cars have been getting worse for years and years. These boys can't compete with the overseas vehicles made in Asia, its is simple as that.
There are too many fat cats & greed will eventually sink more Australian icon companies, for example, Qantas.....their days are numbered.
I for one would like to see some of the salaries the fat cats have been taking home in the last couple of years.........theres no wonder they're buggered!
_wombat_ said
02:59 AM Mar 24, 2012
in regards to Qantas Jack, their days are only numbered because of their silly CEO, IMHO.
Cruising Granny said
04:17 AM Mar 24, 2012
These high paid CEO's seem to be over-paid stuffer uppers. When they make a major blunder they get paid out of their contract. That's reward for error as far as I can see it. They should have to pay their way out of their contract. The leprechaun which is ruining Qantas needs some adjustments to his anatomy. I understand the Holden "deal" is not a hand-out but a "business arrangement" between SA, national and Holden which I took to mean they have to repay at least some of it. There are more industries which are going down like Bonds, Clipsal, the steel industry is gone, and the utilities and services are privatised or should I say corporatised. Support one, support them all, or none.
_wombat_ said
10:28 AM Mar 24, 2012
jack biggles wrote:
_wombat_ wrote:
in regards to Qantas Jack, their days are only numbered because of their silly CEO, IMHO.
Actually Womabat ole Paddy isnt a silly man. The writing is on the wall for Qantas, just have a look at what happened to Ansett.......Qantas heading down a very similar route & the wheels were put into motion, long ago before the current CEO was in place.
Their CEO put a very big nail in the coffin recently, and left a lot of angry customers
-- Edited by _wombat_ on Saturday 24th of March 2012 10:29:10 AM
Wizardofoz said
03:15 PM Mar 24, 2012
The wackiest thing is, they give Holden a handout to survive, yet buy their fleet from someone else?
Why wouldn't the government give them the dough then buy all their vehicles from them at an agreed discount, surely that would be the 'WIN WIN' solution.
jack biggles said
05:13 PM Mar 24, 2012
_wombat_ wrote:
in regards to Qantas Jack, their days are only numbered because of their silly CEO, IMHO.
Actually Womabat ole Paddy isnt a silly man. The writing is on the wall for Qantas, just have a look at what happened to Ansett.......Qantas heading down a very similar route & the wheels were put into motion, long ago before the current CEO was in place.
jack biggles said
05:38 PM Mar 24, 2012
You won't consider his hand was forced? There's serious issues on the other side of the fence wombat.
You don't think customers werent already seriously angry with series of very unpredictable work stoppages which rolled across the airline, all of which were organised by the unions & their members.
Qantas can't compete mate, their finished, washed up & well out of their depth. Their International competition is just TOO Good!
_wombat_ said
06:04 PM Mar 24, 2012
jack biggles wrote:
You won't consider his hand was forced? There's serious issues on the other side of the fence wombat.
You don't think customers werent already seriously angry with series of very unpredictable work stoppages which rolled across the airline, all of which were organised by the unions & their members.
Qantas can't compete mate, their finished, washed up & well out of their depth. Their International competition is just TOO Good!
he did say it was his decision to stop aircraft flying and leave customers stranded, what other company CEO would or has done that?
I agree there are two side's to every story and some people will be on one side whlie others on the other side.
I see their share's dropped another 4c yesterday
Landfall said
09:33 PM Mar 24, 2012
Sorry GD,
Maybe I should have placed it in "I digress?"
The point I am trying to make is that, would you be willing to put your tax dollars into supporting the caravan industry, caravan parks, etc?
If Jayco, the largest manufacturer of RV's in Australia, suddenly saod to the government,"Give us xxxx$million, or we are going to go to NZ" would you agree to this?
I'm not blaming the government or trying to start a political stoush, I am merely interested in opinions.
$200 million to a USA company, while our infrastructure decays to me is obscene.
Then again, a lot of jobs at stake for fellow Aussies?
A balancing act, me thinks.
I might also add GD, that a lot of threads have absolutely nothing to do with caravaning or GN's.
Dusty
-- Edited by Landfall on Saturday 24th of March 2012 09:36:28 PM
Cruising Granny said
09:51 PM Mar 24, 2012
I don't think it's as simple as that. I think there are other industries which should get a hand up, not a hand out, to keep them operating in the interim. The global financial situation is a bit dodgy right now, and Australia doesn't have too many manufacturing industries left. This may be too little too late. Ansett when down because Air New Zealand shot them down. Qantas CEO pulled the planes out of the air to undermine the airline, because he wasn't prepared to negotiate with the workers who were trying to get his attention. It was a sulk and a stand off. They're all over-paid kids in a big person's world.
People who read these posts aren't apathetic. They may just be interested to read whatever follows the heading, but not prepared to comment, because, technically, it's a political issue.
Making those sorts of comments are what puts people off joining forums. It's all about personal choice.
-- Edited by Cruising Granny on Saturday 24th of March 2012 09:52:33 PM
Landfall said
09:53 PM Mar 24, 2012
Under the current industrial laws, he made the only decsion that was left to him.
The situation had become impossible for him and Qantas, rolling strikes were doing far more damage to the brand than him pulling all the pins out at once.
Sure, lots of very angry customers, but he achieved what he set out to do, and that was get everyone talking at the same table with government intevention.
He pulled Jetstar out of the mud, but Qantas may be one bridge to far away.
Our greedy workforce, greedy profit margins and poor work ethics are coming home to roost.
I found it interesting with this thread. Two hundred lookers, ten comments?
Apathy is alive and well.
Dusty
rockylizard said
10:54 PM Mar 24, 2012
Landfall wrote:
I found it interesting with this thread. Two hundred lookers, ten comments?
Apathy is alive and well.
Dusty
Gday...
Perhaps don't confuse unwillingness to tender a differing opinion as apathy.
Cheers
John
Landfall said
12:31 AM Mar 25, 2012
rockylizard wrote:
Landfall wrote:
I found it interesting with this thread. Two hundred lookers, ten comments?
Apathy is alive and well.
Dusty
Gday...
Perhaps don't confuse unwillingness to tender a differing opinion as apathy.
Cheers
John
Hi John,
Apathy:- noun - a lack of interest or energy.
Not confused.
Dusty
jack biggles said
01:02 AM Mar 25, 2012
Theres only 2 types of people in this world.
1. The people that know that Jack is right. 2. The people that are yet to realise that Jack is right.
_wombat_ said
01:59 AM Mar 25, 2012
jack biggles wrote:
Theres only 2 types of people in this world.
1. The people that know that Jack is right. 2. The people that are yet to realise that Jack is right.
rockylizard said
01:59 AM Mar 25, 2012
Landfall wrote:
Gday...
Perhaps don't confuse unwillingness to tender a differing opinion as apathy.
Cheers
John
Hi John,
Apathy:- noun - a lack of interest or energy.
Not confused.
Dusty
Gday...
I am sure you are not confused and neither am I confused - I suggested that perhaps you were confusing apathy (by viewers to this thread) to what just may be an unwillingness (by those same viewers) to offer a differing opinion to those already expressed.
cheers
John
03_troopy said
02:32 AM Mar 25, 2012
Well said rockylizard
Gerty Dancer said
03:11 AM Mar 25, 2012
Not apathy... just dont undersand what this has to do with Grey Nomadding?
Loffty said
03:46 AM Mar 27, 2012
Firstly...Give people time to read before you post negative thoughts..
Secondly..What about all the other industies that rely on car manufacturers?
Yes, I also agree, too many handouts, but ????
A lot more than we see up front.
jack biggles said
01:20 AM Mar 30, 2012
_wombat_ wrote:
jack biggles wrote:
Theres only 2 types of people in this world.
1. The people that know that Jack is right. 2. The people that are yet to realise that Jack is right.
I forgot to mention the third cateogry of people. 3. Those who pull faces at jack because they know he is right.
_wombat_ said
01:51 AM Mar 30, 2012
jack biggles wrote:
_wombat_ wrote:
jack biggles wrote:
Theres only 2 types of people in this world.
1. The people that know that Jack is right. 2. The people that are yet to realise that Jack is right.
I forgot to mention the third cateogry of people. 3. Those who pull faces at jack because they know he is right.
Jack, are you sure your name is not Jill, cos Mrs W is never wrong
Handouts help nobody as they never learn from their mistakes, the American car industry collapsed because they didn't change to the markets requirements, The Japs came out with their mini car versions and the public devoured their products, meanwhile the yank tanks kept coming off the assembly line to an ever diminishing market and something had to give...and it was Detroit and their unwanted monsters.
The same with the Swiss and their worlds best watches, they still are the best timepiece in the world, but the asians again found a better and cheaper way make watches, at the end of the day the time was exactly the same on both...bingo, good bye the Swiss watch market.
The above scenarios are played out everyday around the world as ego spoilt companies refuse to believe that their product is no longer a public want or need.
Holden still has the Commodore and it's offshoots as it's flag carrier, they and their like started to lose favour with the public over a decade ago, still they persist...WHY, with the benefit of government support and nothing else, that's why.
The biggest joke of all was the handout to Toyota a couple of years ago, the government should hang its head in shame for giving them $75 million to stay around.
It's about time that governments grew the balls to say NO to these massive companies, instead, tell them to change their marketing and product because it's not good enough and people don't want it.
The strange and ironic thing is, when the same thing happens to a government, they get 'tossed out' on their ear, without a lifeline...tomorrow will be a classic example of that.
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Friday 23rd of March 2012 04:11:25 PM
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Friday 23rd of March 2012 04:13:18 PM
Do you agree with the handout to Holden?
Why doesn't any small business get a handout?
Should for instance, the caravan manufacturing industry in Australia get a big handout, so they can afford to do more research into design and modernise.
How much is keeping people employed in inefficient industries really worth?
Dusty
A few questions re the Holden?GM handout.
What will the Ford boys say.
What about all the other companies doing it tough.
What about the big four banks,they are having it tough too.The cost of money to them is expensive now.
I did hear Holden exports hundreds of millions of dollars worth of engines to other parts of the world at very good tax breaks for them.
Holden export cars from Australia to the middle East also with good tax breaks.
I would suggest that it is sink or swim is the way to go with apollogies to those who will lose their jobs because of BAD management.
There will still be a need for the car market to sell aprox the same number of cars in Australia so why penalise other makers who do not need hand outs.
There are too many fat cats & greed will eventually sink more Australian icon companies, for example, Qantas.....their days are numbered.
I for one would like to see some of the salaries the fat cats have been taking home in the last couple of years.........theres no wonder they're buggered!
in regards to Qantas Jack, their days are only numbered because of their silly CEO, IMHO.
The leprechaun which is ruining Qantas needs some adjustments to his anatomy.
I understand the Holden "deal" is not a hand-out but a "business arrangement" between SA, national and Holden which I took to mean they have to repay at least some of it.
There are more industries which are going down like Bonds, Clipsal, the steel industry is gone, and the utilities and services are privatised or should I say corporatised.
Support one, support them all, or none.
Their CEO put a very big nail in the coffin recently, and left a lot of angry customers
-- Edited by _wombat_ on Saturday 24th of March 2012 10:29:10 AM
The wackiest thing is, they give Holden a handout to survive, yet buy their fleet from someone else?
Why wouldn't the government give them the dough then buy all their vehicles from them at an agreed discount, surely that would be the 'WIN WIN' solution.
Actually Womabat ole Paddy isnt a silly man. The writing is on the wall for Qantas, just have a look at what happened to Ansett.......Qantas heading down a very similar route & the wheels were put into motion, long ago before the current CEO was in place.
You don't think customers werent already seriously angry with series of very unpredictable work stoppages which rolled across the airline, all of which were organised by the unions & their members.
Qantas can't compete mate, their finished, washed up & well out of their depth. Their International competition is just TOO Good!
he did say it was his decision to stop aircraft flying and leave customers stranded, what other company CEO would or has done that?
I agree there are two side's to every story and some people will be on one side whlie others on the other side.
I see their share's dropped another 4c yesterday
Sorry GD,
Maybe I should have placed it in "I digress?"
The point I am trying to make is that, would you be willing to put your tax dollars into supporting the caravan industry, caravan parks, etc?
If Jayco, the largest manufacturer of RV's in Australia, suddenly saod to the government,"Give us xxxx$million, or we are going to go to NZ" would you agree to this?
I'm not blaming the government or trying to start a political stoush, I am merely interested in opinions.
$200 million to a USA company, while our infrastructure decays to me is obscene.
Then again, a lot of jobs at stake for fellow Aussies?
A balancing act, me thinks.
I might also add GD, that a lot of threads have absolutely nothing to do with caravaning or GN's.
Dusty
-- Edited by Landfall on Saturday 24th of March 2012 09:36:28 PM
I don't think it's as simple as that.
I think there are other industries which should get a hand up, not a hand out, to keep them operating in the interim.
The global financial situation is a bit dodgy right now, and Australia doesn't have too many manufacturing industries left. This may be too little too late.
Ansett when down because Air New Zealand shot them down.
Qantas CEO pulled the planes out of the air to undermine the airline, because he wasn't prepared to negotiate with the workers who were trying to get his attention. It was a sulk and a stand off. They're all over-paid kids in a big person's world.
People who read these posts aren't apathetic. They may just be interested to read whatever follows the heading, but not prepared to comment, because, technically, it's a political issue.
Making those sorts of comments are what puts people off joining forums. It's all about personal choice.
-- Edited by Cruising Granny on Saturday 24th of March 2012 09:52:33 PM
Under the current industrial laws, he made the only decsion that was left to him.
The situation had become impossible for him and Qantas, rolling strikes were doing far more damage to the brand than him pulling all the pins out at once.
Sure, lots of very angry customers, but he achieved what he set out to do, and that was get everyone talking at the same table with government intevention.
He pulled Jetstar out of the mud, but Qantas may be one bridge to far away.
Our greedy workforce, greedy profit margins and poor work ethics are coming home to roost.
I found it interesting with this thread. Two hundred lookers, ten comments?
Apathy is alive and well.
Dusty
Gday...
Perhaps don't confuse unwillingness to tender a differing opinion as apathy.
Cheers
John
Hi John,
Apathy:- noun - a lack of interest or energy.
Not confused.
Dusty
1. The people that know that Jack is right.
2. The people that are yet to realise that Jack is right.
Gday...
I am sure you are not confused and neither am I confused - I suggested that perhaps you were confusing apathy (by viewers to this thread) to what just may be an unwillingness (by those same viewers) to offer a differing opinion to those already expressed.
cheers
John
Firstly...Give people time to read before you post negative thoughts..
Secondly..What about all the other industies that rely on car manufacturers?
Yes, I also agree, too many handouts, but ????
A lot more than we see up front.
I forgot to mention the third cateogry of people. 3. Those who pull faces at jack because they know he is right.
Jack, are you sure your name is not Jill, cos Mrs W is never wrong