Type and model of tow vehicle, size of van, auto or manual, diesel/petrol/gas.... I think the range of permutations and combinations is just too numerous for anyone to give a "one size fits all" answer.
-- Edited by jimricho on Tuesday 15th of May 2012 06:46:22 PM
briche said
11:46 PM May 15, 2012
Hi all, just a question that I have had many different answers. Is it ok to tow a van in 5 th gear when you are on a level stretch of road. There have been comments such as thats ok as long as you don't try and drive up hill in hat gear. Mine Blythe way is a 100 series toyota, auto. Others have said under no circumstances tow a caravan in 5 gear. So I invite your comments please. There are issues such as fuel consumption that come into play but also safety matters, power range, etc. this post is not just for me but the many people 8 have discussed this with. My vechicle handbook does not cover it. I have not as yet gone into a Toyota workshop to discuss that matter.
Looking forward to your comments
Brian
Scotty01 said
12:15 AM May 16, 2012
In most modern (electronic) Autos 5th gear is more of and overdrive than anything else. In most cases any auto trans specialist will tell you not to use 5th around town and NOT until you are over 80-85kph. It overloads the servos etc in the trans and causes premature failure of the trans - very expensive. I would expect that towing would be ok under the same circumstances ie: over 80kph and NOT whilst climbing etc.
ozi2 said
12:27 AM May 16, 2012
briche wrote:
Hi all, just a question that I have had many different answers. Is it ok to tow a van in 5 th gear when you are on a level stretch of road. There have been comments such as thats ok as long as you don't try and drive up hill in hat gear. Mine Blythe way is a 100 series toyota, auto. Others have said under no circumstances tow a caravan in 5 gear. So I invite your comments please. There are issues such as fuel consumption that come into play but also safety matters, power range, etc. this post is not just for me but the many people 8 have discussed this with. My vechicle handbook does not cover it. I have not as yet gone into a Toyota workshop to discuss that matter. Looking forward to your comments Brian
G'day Brian, I would pursue Toyota's opinion for sure and from a personal point of view I have towed vans/trailers using 5th gear in 4wd & 2wd(manual& auto) with no problems. However I have always been aware that 5th is an overdrive gear with different ratio to torque gears (eg 4th great for engine braking in diesel but not 5th and the same for pulling)
We all know when we need to change up or down a gear to avoid strain on engine/bearings etc and if conditions allow then no reason why 5th cant be used. Windy or hilly conditions rule out 5th as the temp gauge will quickly rise along with lack of torque.
As you state, much has been said on the issue but its a topic worth knowing about as the consequences could be horrendous!
There have been issues raised of clutches burnt out in late model tugs & not covered under warranty..........any forum members had this issue?
signwilson said
12:53 AM May 16, 2012
never tow a hundred series in overdrive unless you want to cook your gearbox very expensive
spida said
01:19 AM May 16, 2012
i have found 5th gear great in the navara - but then I have a 6th gear also - seems to chew through the diesel unless going down hill so dont use it often -I guess it is the 'overdrive ' also.
Smokeydk said
03:21 AM May 16, 2012
I just let my auto sort it out......even when the cruise control is set.....overdrive whats that???
justcruisin01 said
05:17 AM May 16, 2012
A very wide scope question as many vehicles vary in the desighn of transmissions. Generaly in a manual the 5th gear is fitted outside of the main gear box, it is in the extension housing & often poorly supported by bearings, this is why they often fail when used under heavy loads..
Having said this my old tug has a fairly heavy g/box & I use 5th all day where its not under extreme load , touch wood but its done 350,000kls, most of it towing & fully loaded as well.Got to be happy with that.
JC.
NandK said
05:29 AM May 16, 2012
I use 5th gear in my Navara when on reasonable ground and change to 4th if it gets a bit hilly or windy,just listen to the engine it'll tell you when to change gear. A mate blew his Tojos gear box through towing in 5th from Perth -Bris-Adelaide ended up a costly trip getting back to Perth. now he only tows in 4th.
landy said
05:33 AM May 16, 2012
I believe a lot of gear boxes use smaller bearings on the 5th gear. certainly a lot of people recomend you do not tow in fith with in my case a manual land rover. So just to be on the safe side, my solution was to fit an overdrive and instead of towing in fith I use 4th overdrive.
Landy
sandsmere said
12:39 PM May 16, 2012
We have a 2011 model 76 series Land Cruiser . I was told by the service manager at a large Toyota dealership not to tow in fifth gear .
We tow a 2800 kg van at around 90 / 95 kms ph in 4th gear @ just over 2000 rpm .
Does it easy . Almost perfect I reckon .
BobnBev said
03:49 PM May 16, 2012
landy wrote:
I believe a lot of gear boxes use smaller bearings on the 5th gear. certainly a lot of people recomend you do not tow in fith with in my case a manual land rover. So just to be on the safe side, my solution was to fit an overdrive and instead of towing in fith I use 4th overdrive.
Landy
Hi All We also have a Land Rover TD5Disco and tow in 5 gear all the time (BUT) the manual gear box has a cooler and is fine to do so, Was at the LandRover place just the other day ,Asked the question and said it was fine as long as you dont let it labour, well you wouldnt any way..
Now done 125 thou.Ks towing van so far all good..
BobnBev
landy said
05:20 AM May 17, 2012
Hi BobnBev,
It's good to hear from you again. As you say, it's probably alright if you don't labour it. My defender had already done 170,000km when I bought it and had been used as a tug from new. As we are now towing 3300kg, I decided to play it safe and fit a Roverdrive, which not only gives me peace of mind (by allowing me to stay in the stronger 4th gear when I am towing, and still maintain a reasonable speed), but is great with the TRS chip as a 6th gear when running light.
Cheers,
Landy
BobnBev said
04:32 PM May 17, 2012
Hi Guys nice to see you up and running , We had a small hiccup with the CPU in the td5, it smoked, just one of them things. only heard of one other.
Got it sorted from TRS and its going as well as ever, I now have a Hawk Eye and can fit any bit, and its good for diagnostic of most parts, dont have to go cap in hand to a dealer..
Hope to be on the road very soon, heading west .
safe travels, stay safe.
Bob n Bev
Cupie said
02:36 AM May 18, 2012
I rarely use 5th when towing in my good old 1996 4.2 EFI Patrol.
My mechanic advised against it when I purchased it in 1998. Checked with the then Qld Nissan Service Manager & he agreed. So that was good enough for me.
A mechanic in Darwin showed me a 'lay shaft' I think, from a Partol box that was stripped, according to him because of driving in 5th when towing. He reckoned that this could be fixed with a few mods including a second 'pinion gear' ... please excuse me if I have got the terms wrong. In my opinion he was a bit of a jerk so I don't place much faith in his views.
On a few occasions I tried driving in 5th in favourable conditions & found that the fuel consumption was the same as when using 4th., so why risk it?
I pull a 2.6ton van ... done 250,000km mostly towing. But then I drive at 85 to 90 km/hr.
Cruising Granny said
03:05 AM May 18, 2012
In Lancruisers and any 5 gear vehicle, 5th is usually overdrive. Overdrive is not a work gear. It's an overdrive. I don't ever tow in 5th. I also tow at an average speed of 85/90 KPH. If you want to conserve fuel while towing, stay home. If 6th gear is the overdrive you can tow in 5th because 6th become the overdrive. I prefer to drive manual and I hate cruise control. In real terms I live to really DRIVE my vehicle. I like to feel it working, towing or not. Now, with the "OVERSIZE LOAD AHEAD" sign up, there are times when I can't drive in 5th either, particularly into a head wind. It's all relative to the vehicle, the gearing, the power and the conditions whether towing or conditions. Please look after your vehicle. It's an expensive exercise if you don't
freehazzas said
12:32 AM May 21, 2012
We have a 100 series cruiser and have always used all gears. We have been towing with it for 12 years and it's never been a prob. We tow around 3 tone, but always drop the gears when it needs it, but for cruising on the road when the weight on the car is rolling behind, not being pulled, it's never an issue. It would work harder in 4th gear. Ours has towed heavy horse floats, hay loads and now the van for the last 2 years. Dam thing won't die for me to need to update it.
Hylda&Jon said
01:39 AM May 21, 2012
We travelled in a 2001 LC 100 series 450 petrol/LPG towing a 17" caravan and when I was on the flat I lways used 5th gear when I was above 8oKm. I have been advised it is safe by 4WD experts and it hasn't harmed my car at all. You get to know the sounds of your own car after a while so I hope by now I can tell if it is struggling.
Type and model of tow vehicle, size of van, auto or manual, diesel/petrol/gas.... I think the range of permutations and combinations is just too numerous for anyone to give a "one size fits all" answer.
-- Edited by jimricho on Tuesday 15th of May 2012 06:46:22 PM
In most modern (electronic) Autos 5th gear is more of and overdrive than anything else. In most cases any auto trans specialist will tell you not to use 5th around town and NOT until you are over 80-85kph. It overloads the servos etc in the trans and causes premature failure of the trans - very expensive. I would expect that towing would be ok under the same circumstances ie: over 80kph and NOT whilst climbing etc.
G'day Brian, I would pursue Toyota's opinion for sure and from a personal point of view I have towed vans/trailers using 5th gear in 4wd & 2wd(manual& auto) with no problems. However I have always been aware that 5th is an overdrive gear with different ratio to torque gears (eg 4th great for engine braking in diesel but not 5th and the same for pulling)
We all know when we need to change up or down a gear to avoid strain on engine/bearings etc and if conditions allow then no reason why 5th cant be used. Windy or hilly conditions rule out 5th as the temp gauge will quickly rise along with lack of torque.
As you state, much has been said on the issue but its a topic worth knowing about as the consequences could be horrendous!
There have been issues raised of clutches burnt out in late model tugs & not covered under warranty..........any forum members had this issue?
A very wide scope question as many vehicles vary in the desighn of transmissions. Generaly in a manual the 5th gear is fitted outside of the main gear box, it is in the extension housing & often poorly supported by bearings, this is why they often fail when used under heavy loads..
Having said this my old tug has a fairly heavy g/box & I use 5th all day where its not under extreme load , touch wood but its done 350,000kls, most of it towing & fully loaded as well.Got to be happy with that.
JC.
it'll tell you when to change gear. A mate blew his Tojos gear box through towing in 5th from Perth -Bris-Adelaide ended up a costly trip getting back to Perth.
now he only tows in 4th.
I believe a lot of gear boxes use smaller bearings on the 5th gear. certainly a lot of people recomend you do not tow in fith with in my case a manual land rover. So just to be on the safe side, my solution was to fit an overdrive and instead of towing in fith I use 4th overdrive.
Landy
We have a 2011 model 76 series Land Cruiser . I was told by the service manager at a large Toyota dealership not to tow in fifth gear .
We tow a 2800 kg van at around 90 / 95 kms ph in 4th gear @ just over 2000 rpm .
Does it easy . Almost perfect I reckon .
Hi BobnBev,
It's good to hear from you again. As you say, it's probably alright if you don't labour it. My defender had already done 170,000km when I bought it and had been used as a tug from new. As we are now towing 3300kg, I decided to play it safe and fit a Roverdrive, which not only gives me peace of mind (by allowing me to stay in the stronger 4th gear when I am towing, and still maintain a reasonable speed), but is great with the TRS chip as a 6th gear when running light.
Cheers,
Landy
Hi Guys nice to see you up and running , We had a small hiccup with the CPU in the td5, it smoked, just one of them things. only heard of one other.
Got it sorted from TRS and its going as well as ever, I now have a Hawk Eye and can fit any bit, and its good for diagnostic of most parts, dont have to go cap in hand to a dealer..
Hope to be on the road very soon, heading west .
safe travels, stay safe.
Bob n Bev
I rarely use 5th when towing in my good old 1996 4.2 EFI Patrol.
My mechanic advised against it when I purchased it in 1998. Checked with the then Qld Nissan Service Manager & he agreed. So that was good enough for me.
A mechanic in Darwin showed me a 'lay shaft' I think, from a Partol box that was stripped, according to him because of driving in 5th when towing. He reckoned that this could be fixed with a few mods including a second 'pinion gear' ... please excuse me if I have got the terms wrong. In my opinion he was a bit of a jerk so I don't place much faith in his views.
On a few occasions I tried driving in 5th in favourable conditions & found that the fuel consumption was the same as when using 4th., so why risk it?
I pull a 2.6ton van ... done 250,000km mostly towing. But then I drive at 85 to 90 km/hr.
I don't ever tow in 5th. I also tow at an average speed of 85/90 KPH. If you want to conserve fuel while towing, stay home.
If 6th gear is the overdrive you can tow in 5th because 6th become the overdrive.
I prefer to drive manual and I hate cruise control. In real terms I live to really DRIVE my vehicle. I like to feel it working, towing or not.
Now, with the "OVERSIZE LOAD AHEAD" sign up, there are times when I can't drive in 5th either, particularly into a head wind.
It's all relative to the vehicle, the gearing, the power and the conditions whether towing or conditions.
Please look after your vehicle. It's an expensive exercise if you don't
We travelled in a 2001 LC 100 series 450 petrol/LPG towing a 17" caravan and when I was on the flat I lways used 5th gear when I was above 8oKm. I have been advised it is safe by 4WD experts and it hasn't harmed my car at all. You get to know the sounds of your own car after a while so I hope by now I can tell if it is struggling.
Cheers
Jon