Will the NSW Goverment be issuing Flak jackets to those entering the NP now the shooters are being let loose
jules47 said
03:54 AM Jun 26, 2012
Or Kevlar vests????????????????!!
Happywanderer said
04:23 AM Jun 26, 2012
I was beginning to wonder the same thing. Might think twice before camping in NPs. Don't know who might be wandering around gunhappy.
Gerty Dancer said
05:18 AM Jun 26, 2012
If shooters can take their dogs in, will pets be allowed in?
barrie said
02:34 PM Jun 26, 2012
Booze ,guns and yobbo's do not make a good mix in NP ,how will this be policed
Gerty Dancer said
04:50 PM Jun 26, 2012
This was discussed before on this forum, apparently the shooters are all supposed to be accredited and licensed, but I'm concerned about the pig dogs, since pet dogs arent allowed into NP's even inside a vehicle.
Happywanderer said
05:52 PM Jun 26, 2012
It wouldn't be safe to take in a pet dog Gerty. When they are there to shoot anything feral, they could shoot at anything that moves. One place I will be avoiding.
My experience with shooters in the Victorian High Country has only been positive and in most cases the hunters have been nowhere near camp/rest areas or walking trails. They have been in quite dense isolated areas, see that previous thread.
Re the hunting dogs in National Parks is an interesting point. The hunters I spoke about on the Haunted Stream in the other thread, were not using dogs.
In the Vic High Country, hunting dogs do get lost and then left behind. We have come across a few feral dogs whilst 4WDing that seemed to be lost hunting dogs. I recall at Licola next to the General Store there was cages for found hunting dogs where they could be held until their owners could pick them up. Mind you the dogs we have seen out in the bush I would be very reluctant to approach in an attempt to rescue.
jimricho said
01:02 AM Jun 27, 2012
My understanding is that in NSW dogs are not and will not be allowed. In fact dogs are part of the problem not the solution.
The shooting will be strictly controlled and not the open slather that the anti shooting lobby would like us all to believe.
johnq said
05:27 AM Jun 27, 2012
barrie wrote:
Will the NSW Goverment be issuing Flak jackets to those entering the NP now the shooters are being let loose
Why did you say that?
blaze said
10:12 AM Jun 27, 2012
an over reaction by the ill informed seeking a knee jerk reaction. I have been a hunter and fisherman as long as I can remember and get quite offended when I am labeled as in some of the earlier posts. Read this yesterday and only now could I reply in a polite way. cheers blaze
sandsmere said
12:37 PM Jun 27, 2012
Right blaze .
People are in much more danger on the roads with some of the drivers around than they will be in those NPs .
Antway , this subject has been done to death on here , and other forums before .
Rip and Rosie said
04:07 PM Jun 27, 2012
blaze wrote:
an over reaction by the ill informed seeking a knee jerk reaction. I have been a hunter and fisherman as long as I can remember and get quite offended when I am labeled as in some of the earlier posts. Read this yesterday and only now could I reply in a polite way. cheers blaze
There are many of us who are uncomfortable with hunting. For most of us the media has informed our view that guns are dangerous, and not something we want around / near us.
Despite the fact that many hunters claim to be members of clubs and hold legitimate licences, we are also aware that many do not bother with such "minor" details.
I think, in view of this fear, a large amount of debate can be expected from both sides. The topic won't go away without each side coming to some understanding of the point of view of the other.
barrie said
05:07 PM Jun 27, 2012
The only reason it got passed was so O'Farrell could sell off the power grid so he sold out to the shooter's party .
Guns have no place in NP's
Happywanderer said
05:46 PM Jun 27, 2012
My opinion does not come from any media report as I have not read any. I don't like guns for personal reasons. So I don't want to park in a NP not knowing if a bullet is heading my way.
jimricho said
06:20 PM Jun 27, 2012
barrie wrote:
The only reason it got passed was so O'Farrell could sell off the power grid so he sold out to the shooter's party
This is quite true and is a cynical and irresponsible abuse of the balance of power by the shooters party.
I'm somewhat ambivalent on the issue so I'm not intending to take a for or against position here.
However if we're to debate it here let's do so in logical manner based on facts and rational arguments.
The use of emotive and irrational language such as "flak jackets" and "shooters being let loose" is a cynical attempt to cause panic and fear by creating the impression that it will be open slather for any hoon with a rifle or shotgun to go out and blaze away.
The government has indicated that the policy will strictly controlled and permits issued on a very limited basis. It will also be under a lot of political and public pressure to ensure that this remains so. As I've said I'm in two minds on this just the same.
Gerty Dancer said
06:32 PM Jun 27, 2012
Forgive my ignorance, I've heard of "gun clubs" but not "Shooters Party"... is there actually a member of a Shooters Party elected in the NSW govt? Sorry, this isnt meant to be a political post, just want to know.
Happywanderer said
06:54 PM Jun 27, 2012
miroku12g wrote:
How ill informed you are happy Wanderer !!!!
But you are intitled to your opinion, & thats fine
Why, what did I say. I will go back over what I wrote but only remember saying I hadn't read any info on the subject.
I have been back over my comments and don't see anything wrong with what I've said. My son in law owns guns and goes rabbit or fox shooting quite a bit.
I am not against that and not against shooters. I just wouldn't feel comfortable being in the same area as they are in case they don't know I'm there and a bullet comes in my direction. It does happen.
I also have personal reasons for not liking guns.
-- Edited by Happywanderer on Wednesday 27th of June 2012 06:58:52 PM
NeilandRaine said
07:06 PM Jun 27, 2012
Way back when I was growing up in Tassy going shooting was sort of a right of passage, except for one occasion, I cant remember to many incidents of accidental shootings. Another thing to consider is when you camp by a nice little river not in a national park. The local land owner may encourage shooters on his property. Bugger now we can't camp in the NP or by a river. May as well not go anyplace.
Rip and Rosie said
08:02 PM Jun 27, 2012
Gerty Dancer wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, I've heard of "gun clubs" but not "Shooters Party"... is there actually a member of a Shooters Party elected in the NSW govt? Sorry, this isnt meant to be a political post, just want to know.
Yes Gerty.
The Shooters and Fishers Party, formerly known as the Shooters Party, is an Australian state political party. It is registered for state elections in New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia. The party changed its name to the Shooters and Fishers Party in 2010.
Origin
The Shooters Party came into existence on May 2, 1992 when the New South Wales Government proposed laws preventing citizens from owning firearms for personal protection as part of a raft of firearms laws after a number of high profile mass shootings. It was founded by journalist and broadcaster John Tingle, who was elected to the New South Wales Legislative Council in March 1995 as the party's first representative. Tingle resigned in May 2006, and was succeeded by businessman Robert Brown.
Policies
The party's policies are not entirely focused around firearms. It asserts that every law-abiding citizen should have the right to own and use a firearm for legitimate purposes. It strongly supports recreational & conservation hunting, and laws giving shooters access to public land for hunting. It also has policies relating to personal freedom, and reduction of governmental interference in citizens' lives; as well as the need for five-year reviews of all legislation. The party's motto is "Reclaim Freedom". It actively supports recreational fishers, four-wheel drivers and other outdoor users, as well as rural activities of farming, mining & forestry. The Party opposes what it calls "extreme Green policies" and the "left leaning social reconstructive agenda" of the Greens.
The Party counts among its achievements, a number of successful Bills, including those giving rights of self defence to any citizen, anywhere, with immunity from civil or criminal liability; providing extra penalties for attacks on vulnerable people; giving families of homicide victims the right to be heard in court; establishment of the Game Council NSW, and legislation allowing specifically licensed hunters to hunt on public land; government funding of shooting clubs, and establishment of regional shooting complexes; recognition of membership of a hunting club as "genuine reason" for obtaining a firearms licence; extension of minor permits from ages 18 to 12, etc. The Shooters Party also assists firearms organizations.
Before the federal election of 2004, the Australian Shooters Party was deregistered by the Australian Electoral Commission for failing to contest a federal election for four years. It was re-registered after the 2004 federal election but was deregistered again on 27 December 2006, along with a number of minor parties which did not have a representative sitting in Federal Parliament. Re-registration, after this event, was achieved in August 2007. The Australian Shooters Party contested the 2007 federal elections and received 0.28% of the national vote (though they did not contest all states & even then only with Senate tickets) and 1.1% of the vote in NSW. The Party was instrumental in flowing preferences away from the Greens in NSW (who failed to be reelected), Queensland & Victoria
The South Australian 2006 state election saw the Shooters Party run two candidates for the Legislative Council, Robert Low and Michael T Hudson, preferencing the Family First Party as well as the One Nation Party. The Shooters Party received 5,991 votes out of 1,055,347 voters enrolled, which is 0.6% of the vote, with only a 0.08 quota. Neither candidate was elected.
In the 2007 New South Wales state election, the Shooters Party received 2.8% of the primary vote for the Legislative Council (0.8%) to elect lead candidate Roy Smith to the Upper House. As a result, the party now holds 2 seats in the NSW Upper House.
At the 2011 New South Wales state election, the Liberal/National Coalition took government but with three seats short of a majority in the upper house. The Shooters hold two seats along with the Christian Democratic Party, with the balance of power shifting from the Greens to the two parties. The Shooters have reportedly created a list of demands in exchange for legislative support for the government, however the government has "ruled out" any deals with the Shooters.
Nicholstones said
10:15 PM Jun 27, 2012
I haven't followed this very closely, so could be wrong, but I am under the impression that the shooting would be at controlled times, not just open slather. I believe that during the times that shooting is happening the park would be closed to other visitors, in the same way that happens when controlled burns are being done.
Gerty Dancer said
10:18 PM Jun 27, 2012
Very interesting Rip n Rosie. Thank you.
miroku12g said
12:45 AM Jun 28, 2012
Wow, seems the press has done it's job by making most people paranoid about guns, sure thing, guns kill but only with the help of the man /women behind the trigger, i belong to a local Clay target club, a member of SSAA & ACTA licensed & responsible!!! I can tell you that all SSAA{Sporting Shooters Association Australia} are very much aware of the surroundings Where the projectile will end up!! they are not "gun-ho" drunk "yobbo's'' please don't get confused with "Gold Coast" bike gangs with totally illegal weapons or "Underbelly' type gangs. The very first thing that goes through a shooters head is "Is it safe to pull the trigger" "where will it up" "Can I get a clean kill" Would you rather have a Feral animal feed poison, left to die a VERY slow painful death, to be eaten by our "Native" animals which in turn collect the poison from the flesh,most times taken to their young to eat, then have the same death as the original kill !!! or a single clean{99% of the time} shot ?? As for dogs, hunting dogs are trained to collect the pray & the pray only,very well trained,they will NOT run away after a "Roo" or a Native animal & not come back when called. Is it "safe" to camp in a National Park------is it safe to fly a huge hunk of metal in the air that we a happy to sit in for hours on end?? of course it is. Nicholstones, you are right it will be controlled times & places.
Miroku12g
Wombat 280 said
12:52 AM Jun 28, 2012
As they say Guns Don't Kill People People Kill People. I can't imagine them allowing shooters into public access areas and those areas where the shooters targets are none of us oldies will ever regain the fitness of a SAS solider to get within cooeeee of the shooting areas . The media has a slow news day and they hype up the situation to gather readers and listeners
miroku12g said
12:55 AM Jun 28, 2012
With you all the way Blaze
miroku12g said
12:57 AM Jun 28, 2012
How far away from the TRUTH you are rip!!!
miroku12g said
01:01 AM Jun 28, 2012
How ill informed you are happy Wanderer !!!!
But you are intitled to your opinion, & thats fine
Rip and Rosie said
01:25 AM Jun 28, 2012
miroku12g wrote:
How far away from the TRUTH you are rip!!!
Please explain
Nicholstones said
01:35 AM Jun 28, 2012
miroku12g wrote:
Would you rather have a Feral animal feed poison, left to die a VERY slow painful death, to be eaten by our "Native" animals which in turn collect the poison from the flesh,most times taken to their young to eat, then have the same death as the original kill !!! Miroku12g
This is incorrect, the poison used to control feral animals is derived from a native Australian plant, Australian animals are not affected by it but non-Australian animals (such as foxes and cats) have not developed this immunity.
miroku12g said
02:04 AM Jun 28, 2012
Rip,
To hold a Firearm licence is not a minor detail, all sporting shooters & clay target club members hold a licence, to hold a licence you must have an legitiment reason,Ie sporting, property owner,also you Must belong to a club,[ local or national] you canot hold or get a licence for the reason "I would just like to have a gun" you will not be issued with a license if you have any form of DVO against you in the last 5 yrs i believe, if you are able to collect any form of firearm without a license then you would be in the wrong circle of friends anyway,would you agree?
when you called it a minor detail, that is what i found you to be wrong in my opinion. other than that we all have our own opinions, my point is that we are all not "rednecks"
as for the record, I do not hunt, nore could i kill any animal with a firearm, i just love to shoot Clay targets, nothing more.
Thanks Rip for your feedback anyway, we are all in the same forum, and should respect different replies & answers, would pay for us all to be the same would it
Will the NSW Goverment be issuing Flak jackets to those entering the NP now the shooters are being let loose
One place I will be avoiding.
As said, discussed before http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t49442561/shooting-allowed-in-nsw-nps/
My experience with shooters in the Victorian High Country has only been positive and in most cases the hunters have been nowhere near camp/rest areas or walking trails. They have been in quite dense isolated areas, see that previous thread.
Re the hunting dogs in National Parks is an interesting point. The hunters I spoke about on the Haunted Stream in the other thread, were not using dogs.
In the Vic High Country, hunting dogs do get lost and then left behind. We have come across a few feral dogs whilst 4WDing that seemed to be lost hunting dogs. I recall at Licola next to the General Store there was cages for found hunting dogs where they could be held until their owners could pick them up. Mind you the dogs we have seen out in the bush I would be very reluctant to approach in an attempt to rescue.
The shooting will be strictly controlled and not the open slather that the anti shooting lobby would like us all to believe.
Why did you say that?
cheers
blaze
Right blaze .
People are in much more danger on the roads with some of the drivers around than they will be in those NPs .
Antway , this subject has been done to death on here , and other forums before .
There are many of us who are uncomfortable with hunting. For most of us the media has informed our view that guns are dangerous, and not something we want around / near us.
Despite the fact that many hunters claim to be members of clubs and hold legitimate licences, we are also aware that many do not bother with such "minor" details.
I think, in view of this fear, a large amount of debate can be expected from both sides. The topic won't go away without each side coming to some understanding of the point of view of the other.
Guns have no place in NP's
So I don't want to park in a NP not knowing if a bullet is heading my way.
This is quite true and is a cynical and irresponsible abuse of the balance of power by the shooters party.
I'm somewhat ambivalent on the issue so I'm not intending to take a for or against position here.
However if we're to debate it here let's do so in logical manner based on facts and rational arguments.
The use of emotive and irrational language such as "flak jackets" and "shooters being let loose" is a cynical attempt to cause panic and fear by creating the impression that it will be open slather for any hoon with a rifle or shotgun to go out and blaze away.
The government has indicated that the policy will strictly controlled and permits issued on a very limited basis. It will also be under a lot of political and public pressure to ensure that this remains so. As I've said I'm in two minds on this just the same.
Sorry, this isnt meant to be a political post, just want to know.
Why, what did I say. I will go back over what I wrote but only remember saying I hadn't read any info on the subject.
I have been back over my comments and don't see anything wrong with what I've said. My son in law owns guns and goes rabbit or fox shooting quite a bit.
I am not against that and not against shooters. I just wouldn't feel comfortable being in the same area as they are in case they don't know I'm there and a bullet comes in my direction. It does happen.
I also have personal reasons for not liking guns.
-- Edited by Happywanderer on Wednesday 27th of June 2012 06:58:52 PM
Another thing to consider is when you camp by a nice little river not in a national park. The local land owner may encourage shooters on his property. Bugger now we can't camp in the NP or by a river.
May as well not go anyplace.
Yes Gerty.
The Shooters and Fishers Party, formerly known as the Shooters Party, is an Australian state political party. It is registered for state elections in New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia. The party changed its name to the Shooters and Fishers Party in 2010.
Origin
The Shooters Party came into existence on May 2, 1992 when the New South Wales Government proposed laws preventing citizens from owning firearms for personal protection as part of a raft of firearms laws after a number of high profile mass shootings. It was founded by journalist and broadcaster John Tingle, who was elected to the New South Wales Legislative Council in March 1995 as the party's first representative. Tingle resigned in May 2006, and was succeeded by businessman Robert Brown.
Policies
The party's policies are not entirely focused around firearms. It asserts that every law-abiding citizen should have the right to own and use a firearm for legitimate purposes. It strongly supports recreational & conservation hunting, and laws giving shooters access to public land for hunting. It also has policies relating to personal freedom, and reduction of governmental interference in citizens' lives; as well as the need for five-year reviews of all legislation. The party's motto is "Reclaim Freedom". It actively supports recreational fishers, four-wheel drivers and other outdoor users, as well as rural activities of farming, mining & forestry. The Party opposes what it calls "extreme Green policies" and the "left leaning social reconstructive agenda" of the Greens.
The Party counts among its achievements, a number of successful Bills, including those giving rights of self defence to any citizen, anywhere, with immunity from civil or criminal liability; providing extra penalties for attacks on vulnerable people; giving families of homicide victims the right to be heard in court; establishment of the Game Council NSW, and legislation allowing specifically licensed hunters to hunt on public land; government funding of shooting clubs, and establishment of regional shooting complexes; recognition of membership of a hunting club as "genuine reason" for obtaining a firearms licence; extension of minor permits from ages 18 to 12, etc. The Shooters Party also assists firearms organizations.
Before the federal election of 2004, the Australian Shooters Party was deregistered by the Australian Electoral Commission for failing to contest a federal election for four years. It was re-registered after the 2004 federal election but was deregistered again on 27 December 2006, along with a number of minor parties which did not have a representative sitting in Federal Parliament. Re-registration, after this event, was achieved in August 2007. The Australian Shooters Party contested the 2007 federal elections and received 0.28% of the national vote (though they did not contest all states & even then only with Senate tickets) and 1.1% of the vote in NSW. The Party was instrumental in flowing preferences away from the Greens in NSW (who failed to be reelected), Queensland & Victoria
The South Australian 2006 state election saw the Shooters Party run two candidates for the Legislative Council, Robert Low and Michael T Hudson, preferencing the Family First Party as well as the One Nation Party. The Shooters Party received 5,991 votes out of 1,055,347 voters enrolled, which is 0.6% of the vote, with only a 0.08 quota. Neither candidate was elected.
In the 2007 New South Wales state election, the Shooters Party received 2.8% of the primary vote for the Legislative Council (0.8%) to elect lead candidate Roy Smith to the Upper House. As a result, the party now holds 2 seats in the NSW Upper House.
At the 2011 New South Wales state election, the Liberal/National Coalition took government but with three seats short of a majority in the upper house. The Shooters hold two seats along with the Christian Democratic Party, with the balance of power shifting from the Greens to the two parties. The Shooters have reportedly created a list of demands in exchange for legislative support for the government, however the government has "ruled out" any deals with the Shooters.
bike gangs with totally illegal weapons or "Underbelly' type gangs. The very first thing that goes through a shooters head is "Is it safe to pull the trigger" "where will it up" "Can I get a clean kill"
Would you rather have a Feral animal feed poison, left to die a VERY slow painful death, to be eaten by our "Native" animals which in turn collect the poison from the flesh,most times taken to their young to eat, then have the same death as the original kill !!! or a single clean{99% of the time} shot ?? As for dogs, hunting dogs are trained to collect the pray & the pray only,very well trained,they will NOT run away after a "Roo" or a Native animal & not come back when called.
Is it "safe" to camp in a National Park------is it safe to fly a huge hunk of metal in the air that we a happy to sit in for hours on end?? of course it is. Nicholstones, you are right it will be controlled times & places.
Miroku12g
With you all the way Blaze
How far away from the TRUTH you are rip!!!
How ill informed you are happy Wanderer !!!!
But you are intitled to your opinion, & thats fine
Please explain
This is incorrect, the poison used to control feral animals is derived from a native Australian plant, Australian animals are not affected by it but non-Australian animals (such as foxes and cats) have not developed this immunity.
Rip,
To hold a Firearm licence is not a minor detail, all sporting shooters & clay target club members hold a licence, to hold a licence you must have an legitiment reason,Ie sporting, property owner,also you Must belong to a club,[ local or national] you canot hold or get a licence for the reason "I would just like to have a gun" you will not be issued with a license if you have any form of DVO against you in the last 5 yrs i believe, if you are able to collect any form of firearm without a license then you would be in the wrong circle of friends anyway,would you agree?
when you called it a minor detail, that is what i found you to be wrong in my opinion. other than that we all have our own opinions, my point is that we are all not "rednecks"
as for the record, I do not hunt, nore could i kill any animal with a firearm, i just love to shoot Clay targets, nothing more.
Thanks Rip for your feedback anyway, we are all in the same forum, and should respect different replies & answers, would pay for us all to be the same would it
Cheers
miroku12g