If you are just sitting at home with nothing running at all then the battery should be fine for 2-3 weeks.
You right about some wanting to sell you more stuff & half the time they don't know how it all works, just how to press those buttons on the till.
JC.
-- Edited by justcruisin01 on Sunday 26th of August 2012 03:20:47 PM
crocodile said
07:15 PM Aug 26, 2012
howdy fellow nomads, hope someone can give me some sort of advice/second opinion type of thing. I have a single 130AH (lead acid _maintainable powered by a Baintech PB-360 25amp charger with boost and float charge stages. This charger is suitable only for lead acid batteries. I have no solar on roof , only a portable 80w panel. When this is connected to battery , volt gauge shows on a good sunny day a reading of about 14.6volt.when panel is disconnected at evening and no 12v utilities being used as van is parked in our yard, next morning volt gauge reads about 12.6volt. Is this the normal thing for it to drop about 2volt o/nite without any 12v being used with exception to the battery protector (model BP-400).?? When on 240v power it still gives about the same readings as above and same reading when disconnected following day.
An auto sparky says i should have 2 batteries but will be trying to do as much free camping as we can from October onwards. I do have a 2kva genny, but hmm they can cause some grumpy looks at times. a workshop sparky at a caravan service yard says if i am not putting solar on roof just stay with the portable panel & my genny.
Before we were actually handed the van new late September 2010 the dealer kept stalling the handover due to some "electrical issues" with the van. The van is a 18'6 golden eagle eureka hardtop. The original battery was a AC DELCO 96 ah one and it dropped its stomach a month ago hence why i got the 130ah one on advice from battery world. hope someone can sooth my nerves over this or am i just a worry wort.
cheers
Crocodile.
justcruisin01 said
09:44 PM Aug 26, 2012
Crocodile;Those voltage readings are correct. Any battery while on charge will read up to 14.8 volts, this is actualy the voltage output of the charger because if a charger only delivered 12.5 volts then it would never charge a battery.
The 12.6 you have in the morning is good & is a correct voltage. Once the charger is removed & the battery has a few hours to settle this is a normal reading.
As for a second battery, you have to do the maths on how much power you need, as in what appliances you wish to run when free camped, then apply the appropiate recharge system. Haveing a portable panel will give you a lot more charge than a fixed, simply because you can track the sun during the day, I have both systems & portable winns every day. One point to remember is that you need to supply 1.5 - 2amps to every 1 amp you use to acheive a recharge.It's just the way the systems work.
Hope this helps you;
JC.
crocodile said
10:08 PM Aug 26, 2012
Howdy Just Cruisin, thanks so much for your reply. i certainly realise that we have to do our maths insofar as how much 12v we would be using free camping. certainly understand that. I did omit to ask that when the van is parked at home, do i still have to keep it up to full charge each day whether by power , portable solar panel . some sparky's have said nah just keep check on it every cupla days and others have told me to either keep it on 240v even without any 12v units being used.sorry to trouble you as this is our first "modern" van a person is getting confused by some sales people, like "ah mate u should upgrade ur charger", and others have said and i agree with what we use at moment the baintech charger is doing its job just fine. i sometimes think they just want to get more money out of a person. Safe travels to you.
cheers
Crocodile
powerstream said
08:01 AM Aug 27, 2012
Crocodile JC is correct but checking the battery when hot in use is subject to further information needed by you to get a better understanding and that information may not come from a till button pusher. The rate of maintenance charge is relevent to the self loss factor of the battery and different types of batteries may have a different self loss factor . When a 12v battery is fully chargerd it should settle to between 12.6V -12.8V then if not on charge of any description the battery will lose a percentage of charge which is normally calculated over a month and the better qualify of battery and type the self loss can be small and some batteries can be sitting for months before not needing a top up charge. If you can get the specification of your batteries it should give you the self loss percentage and then you can work out if and when you should top up charge your battery. The alternate is to float your battery continuously by way of solar and or mains power charger but relevent to the correct float charge needed to ensure it does not over float the battery voltage. Not correcting the self loss factor can lead to sulphation which over time will reduce the capacity of your battery to accept charge and shorten its life. With regard to installing another battery that is a no no unless you have the capacity to continually recover its charge otherwise you kill two batteries instead of one. Adding more solar is the first step to ensure you are maximising the use of your existing battery and then if you find you need more capacity then you can consider increasing battery capacity to cover your needs. Battery life is based on cycles and they are normally maxed out at 80% DOD (Depth of Discharge) with the common recommended discharge being 50% DOD so if you use 50% on a daily basis you must be able to recover it to full charge on a daily basis. Get as much info as you can and learn to grow with your system and requirements and add what you think you need when you think you need it not when someone else tells you you need it just to get a sale or to indicate that they truly do not understand themselves what is needed.
Ian
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 27th of August 2012 08:02:38 AM
BobnBev said
03:54 AM Aug 28, 2012
Hi Ian, That charger works a treat it puts all back in no time at all. when there is no sun. But there is no sub. for plenty of sola. just fitted 2 more panels making around 700 watts. and the new battery is out of this world....
If you spend a lot of time in CPs there is no need for anything but a small sola and a good battery charger.
Bob n Bev......
powerstream said
12:13 PM Aug 28, 2012
Hi Bob & Bev I agree wholeheartedly as long as you do not end up with the panels that were talked about on channel 7 Queensland last night apparently a lot of them are intollerant to some of the suns rays and are causing havoc. Ive fitted over 1000W to a 9M Hino one 175W 24V experiment on the back which double as a power supply but has an underbody to reduce panel heat and give free hot water and it was sourced from Turkey. I am now experimenting with 10X88W 12V panels forward of that in a closed frame fitted with 100M of 12MM PEX water tubing to see if I can mimic or better the imported one and if it works it is a cheaper option. I intend to run a 50L domestic HWS in the boot off the solar via a small 12V ceramic pump run of 1x 20W solar panel. Its a challenge but a lot of fun to find something that works so heres hoping. Ian
-- Edited by powerstream on Tuesday 28th of August 2012 12:14:11 PM
valnrob said
09:00 PM Sep 5, 2012
Our setup is as follows..we have no problems with it. On the van we have two 85w solar panels fixed on roof. These have regulators.Inside the van we have two 100 amp hr deep cycle batteries. Have 1 solar panel attached to each individual battery. One battery supplies power to the fridge ONLY. The other battery supplies power for lights,cd player, laptop, recharging gear for phone. We also have a 85w panel on the ute, and a100amp hr battery in canopy, this supplies power for the Engel fridge inside the ute. We have never had to use the genie to charge any of the gear up. Like I Say we have had no problems. You have to have enough panels and enough batteries to supply power for your needs
powerstream said
02:24 PM Sep 6, 2012
Valnrob To me that may seem OK but without knowing what the laptop and other uses need it appears that you may have one battery and solar working harder than the other. Depending on the fridge type and size one 85W solar panel should not sustain a fridge 24/7 and the battery will be cycling lower and lower trying to maintain the fridge unless you have an alternate source of power such as and mains charger or DC supply from the car. The other set up may depending on use cycle a lot less and to a smaller DOD (Depth of Discharge) and therefore would achieve a longer life. It may be more prudent to combine the two solar panesl and two batteries in the van to allow both batteries to cycle to a lesser DOD (Depth of Discharge ) extending the life of both batteries rather that having one prematurely fail due to deeper cycling and potentially insufficient charging. For example if the caravan fridge itself cycled 50.50 and drew 5A then it would mean 12x5=60AH where the solar panel producing say 5A over the 5 hours peak sun time in the day would return 25AH . The difference can be shown better if the lifestyle was know such and itinerant traveller permanent traveller free camping and or caravan park use and ambient temperature as fridges draw power for longer in high ambient temperature tring to get the heat out of the wall of the fridge and the fridge power use stated by salemen can be totally misleading in that the running draw may stay the same but the fridge may end up running 24/7 in extreme temperatures taking that 60AH in the example out to 120AH. This same situation may also relate to the Engel in the canopy and especially if it was used as afreezer but maybe not so much as just a fridge. Regards Ian
If you are just sitting at home with nothing running at all then the battery should be fine for 2-3 weeks.
You right about some wanting to sell you more stuff & half the time they don't know how it all works, just how to press those buttons on the till.
JC.
-- Edited by justcruisin01 on Sunday 26th of August 2012 03:20:47 PM
An auto sparky says i should have 2 batteries but will be trying to do as much free camping as we can from October onwards. I do have a 2kva genny, but hmm they can cause some grumpy looks at times. a workshop sparky at a caravan service yard says if i am not putting solar on roof just stay with the portable panel & my genny.
Before we were actually handed the van new late September 2010 the dealer kept stalling the handover due to some "electrical issues" with the van. The van is a 18'6 golden eagle eureka hardtop. The original battery was a AC DELCO 96 ah one and it dropped its stomach a month ago hence why i got the 130ah one on advice from battery world. hope someone can sooth my nerves over this or am i just a worry wort.
cheers
Crocodile.
Crocodile;Those voltage readings are correct. Any battery while on charge will read up to 14.8 volts, this is actualy the voltage output of the charger because if a charger only delivered 12.5 volts then it would never charge a battery.
The 12.6 you have in the morning is good & is a correct voltage. Once the charger is removed & the battery has a few hours to settle this is a normal reading.
As for a second battery, you have to do the maths on how much power you need, as in what appliances you wish to run when free camped, then apply the appropiate recharge system. Haveing a portable panel will give you a lot more charge than a fixed, simply because you can track the sun during the day, I have both systems & portable winns every day. One point to remember is that you need to supply 1.5 - 2amps to every 1 amp you use to acheive a recharge.It's just the way the systems work.
Hope this helps you;
JC.
cheers
Crocodile
Crocodile
JC is correct but checking the battery when hot in use is subject to further information needed by you to get a better understanding and that information may not come from a till button pusher.
The rate of maintenance charge is relevent to the self loss factor of the battery and different types of batteries may have a different self loss factor .
When a 12v battery is fully chargerd it should settle to between 12.6V -12.8V then if not on charge of any description the battery will lose a percentage of charge which is normally calculated over a month and the better qualify of battery and type the self loss can be small and some batteries can be sitting for months before not needing a top up charge.
If you can get the specification of your batteries it should give you the self loss percentage and then you can work out if and when you should top up charge your battery.
The alternate is to float your battery continuously by way of solar and or mains power charger but relevent to the correct float charge needed to ensure it does not over float the battery voltage.
Not correcting the self loss factor can lead to sulphation which over time will reduce the capacity of your battery to accept charge and shorten its life.
With regard to installing another battery that is a no no unless you have the capacity to continually recover its charge otherwise you kill two batteries instead of one.
Adding more solar is the first step to ensure you are maximising the use of your existing battery and then if you find you need more capacity then you can consider increasing battery capacity to cover your needs.
Battery life is based on cycles and they are normally maxed out at 80% DOD (Depth of Discharge) with the common recommended discharge being 50% DOD so if you use 50% on a daily basis you must be able to recover it to full charge on a daily basis.
Get as much info as you can and learn to grow with your system and requirements and add what you think you need when you think you need it not when someone else tells you you need it just to get a sale or to indicate that they truly do not understand themselves what is needed.
Ian
-- Edited by powerstream on Monday 27th of August 2012 08:02:38 AM
Hi Ian, That charger works a treat it puts all back in no time at all. when there is no sun. But there is no sub. for plenty of sola. just fitted 2 more panels making around 700 watts. and the new battery is out of this world....
If you spend a lot of time in CPs there is no need for anything but a small sola and a good battery charger.
Bob n Bev......
Hi Bob & Bev
I agree wholeheartedly as long as you do not end up with the panels that were talked about on channel 7 Queensland last night apparently a lot of them are intollerant to some of the suns rays and are causing havoc.
Ive fitted over 1000W to a 9M Hino one 175W 24V experiment on the back which double as a power supply but has an underbody to reduce panel heat and give free hot water and it was sourced from Turkey.
I am now experimenting with 10X88W 12V panels forward of that in a closed frame fitted with 100M of 12MM PEX water tubing to see if I can mimic or better the imported one and if it works it is a cheaper option.
I intend to run a 50L domestic HWS in the boot off the solar via a small 12V ceramic pump run of 1x 20W solar panel.
Its a challenge but a lot of fun to find something that works so heres hoping.
Ian
-- Edited by powerstream on Tuesday 28th of August 2012 12:14:11 PM
To me that may seem OK but without knowing what the laptop and other uses need it appears that you may have one battery and solar working harder than the other.
Depending on the fridge type and size one 85W solar panel should not sustain a fridge 24/7 and the battery will be cycling lower and lower trying to maintain the fridge unless you have an alternate source of power such as and mains charger or DC supply from the car.
The other set up may depending on use cycle a lot less and to a smaller DOD (Depth of Discharge) and therefore would achieve a longer life.
It may be more prudent to combine the two solar panesl and two batteries in the van to allow both batteries to cycle to a lesser DOD (Depth of Discharge ) extending the life of both batteries rather that having one prematurely fail due to deeper cycling and potentially insufficient charging.
For example if the caravan fridge itself cycled 50.50 and drew 5A then it would mean 12x5=60AH where the solar panel producing say 5A over the 5 hours peak sun time in the day would return 25AH .
The difference can be shown better if the lifestyle was know such and itinerant traveller permanent traveller free camping and or caravan park use and ambient temperature as fridges draw power for longer in high ambient temperature tring to get the heat out of the wall of the fridge and the fridge power use stated by salemen can be totally misleading in that the running draw may stay the same but the fridge may end up running 24/7 in extreme temperatures taking that 60AH in the example out to 120AH.
This same situation may also relate to the Engel in the canopy and especially if it was used as afreezer but maybe not so much as just a fridge.
Regards
Ian