Not sure about the AGM batteries, we just know the GEL batteries don't have the problem. We are on the mend now that we have changed the batteries, however not sure what damage the sulphuric acid fumes have done. Hoping there is no long term damage.
We have heard that a lot of manufacturers use the deep cycle acid batteries. It should be stopped as it is well known by battery specialists the problems they cause and they are messing around with people's health.
Best way we feel is to try and let as many people know as possible.
Cheers
Lainie
-- Edited by RodLainie on Wednesday 2nd of January 2013 08:42:49 PM
-- Edited by RodLainie on Wednesday 2nd of January 2013 09:00:20 PM
RodLainie said
03:30 AM Jan 3, 2013
Warning for everyone - We have Marine/RV deep cycle acid batteries in our caravan situated in the front boot. During the night they have been charging up but little did we know that they were giving off Sulpuric Acid fumes which was seeping into our bedroom right at our bed head. Hence we have been breathing in the fumes. This has caused us to become very ill. Symptoms are dry sore eyes, coughing, sore throat, headaches, dizziness and stomach pains. I have read that these fumes can also cause cancer. Today we are investing in GEL batteries.
RodLainie said
04:20 AM Jan 3, 2013
I recommend you do your own research on it. But believe me don't be told that these batteries don't leak... maybe not acid but the fumes can be deadly! I did forget one other symptom damage to the lungs, shortness of breath. It's just not worth the risks!
jetj said
04:24 AM Jan 3, 2013
Hi Rod,
My very limited understanding is that lead acid batteries needs to be vented to the outside but AGM and Gel are ok and aren't a worry. I hope that is right as I have an AGM in my van.
I hope you both recover quickly and thank you for taking the time to warn others.
Plendo said
06:09 AM Jan 3, 2013
Hi Rod and Lanie
thanks for taking the time to warn us about this issue. I believe I have ooked at over a hundred caravans in the last few months, and all have had Deep Cycle lead acid batteries on board. Now we know, we will not fall foul of this.
I wish you a speedy recovery, and hope to meet you in the playground one day.
Happywanderer said
06:11 AM Jan 3, 2013
Thanks for the warning, will try to buy the right battery when I go looking. Although not sure what to get now.
Roving-Dutchy said
06:32 AM Jan 3, 2013
AGM and GEL are also lead acid batteries they are just different in their construction but work the same way as wet cell batteries.
Cheers
David
hako said
06:48 AM Jan 3, 2013
From what I have read and understand, lead acid batteries pose no health risk if properly vented, although the venting seems to be directed more to preventing hydrogen gas mixing with air and becoming explosive during the charging process.
Duh said
06:50 AM Jan 3, 2013
I am not suggesting this info is correct, but this is what one RV Repairer & Parts mob say about the different types of batteries.
Scroll down past the Generators to get to the battery info, see;
Thanks for that interesting link (Scroll down past the Generators to get to the battery info, see (http://www.absolutecaravancare.com/Electrical.html)
After reading that, AGMs sound great, but I will continue to check and top up my battery water every month. The batteries are located externally and the fumes just get blown by the dust and air. I top them up monthly with pure water, no minerals etc just bought from the supermarket in a cask...
Fumes inside would be dangerous....
Duh said
07:59 AM Jan 3, 2013
I've never been happy with batteries inside an RV, a Jayco caravan I had, the batteries were under the bed, also and Avan Camper trailer Aliner and a Hi Ace Campervan. On the other hand, a Coromal caravan I had the battery was in a separate compartment with outside access (on roll out sliders) and lockable hatch. Seemed a much better option to me.
Mike C said
08:21 AM Jan 3, 2013
Hi RodLaine
Sorry to hear of your experiance and hope that you are both feeling much better.
I have only owned two RVs the first an Ultimate camper and the second a paradise motor home in both cases the battery compartments are fully sealed from the internal of the van and vented to the outside. I would be very concerned (regardless of the battery type) if manufacturers are installing batteries within the internals of a van such that vented gasses can cause the problems you describe. If I were you (asuming that you havent modifided the unit) would be taking this up with the manufacturer for a fix and some compensation for the suffering you have experianced. It may be a design fault with the van and making the manufacturer aware will stop others suffering the same issue in the future.
As consumers we rely on the manufacture to provide a product fit and safe for its intended use. Being gassed in ones sleep is ceartianly not a fit and safe enviroment.
I am no expert but would assume that any type of battery can have issues if say the charging system is faulty etc. I saw one a few years back at Tom Price explode within the front boot of a caravan (do not know the type).
Cheers
Mike
-- Edited by Mike C on Thursday 3rd of January 2013 08:37:59 AM
Mike C said
01:01 PM Jan 3, 2013
From what I have read AGM or Gel is the way to go especially if ventilation is limited. AGM having some advantages (Charge rate). Deep Cycle and Starter type wet cells (sealed or not) should be vented to the outside (and I assume sealed to the inside) of your RV.
This is only my interpretation of my research, I claim no expertise other than the ability to click a mouse :)
cheers
Mike
-- Edited by Mike C on Thursday 3rd of January 2013 01:01:59 PM
Dougwe said
03:14 PM Jan 3, 2013
Very interesting indeed Duh. I have my Avan battery under the bed but in a battery box with lid and the box is vented to outside, so all should be ok.
RodLainie said
04:27 PM Jan 3, 2013
We opened the front boot where the batteries are stored. Eventhough we did this the fumes still came into the van. They were Wet cell batteries and the odour was virtually undetectable. My sister has a Coromal van and their wet cell battery exploded! The gel battery doesn't give off the gases and she has found this solved her health problems. Hence we have done the same. The effects of breathing in the fumes was quite severe to the point of actually seeing specialists and having CT scans done. They were at a loss to explain the symtoms. I am still suffering with ear aches, sore throat, coughing and dry sore eyes and some damage to the eyes.
http://www.atbatt.com/blog/29.asp
We live in our van so 10 months of breathing in these gases has taken it's toll. The above website explains the problems and effects. I don't want to see anyone go through what we have just gone through. Your health is everything when travelling the road out there.
Gerty Dancer said
06:18 PM Jan 3, 2013
Thats terrible RodLainie... Are you recovering? Hope it leaves no lasting effects.
I looked at our 2 batteries which are under the bed, without ventilation that I could see, and all sealed up in black containers. The Jayco handbook says they are the "Deep Cycle type which is fully sealed". Looks like more research is necessary.
RodLainie said
06:31 PM Jan 3, 2013
Hi Gerty Our old ones were also Deep Cycle and looked fully sealed but at the top on one side was the small hole to let gases out. hope this helps
Happywanderer said
08:30 PM Jan 3, 2013
My house battery is under the bed too, no where else to put it. At the moment a normal Century start battery which I have to replace. Now I am worried as I do have a few of those symptoms but would never have connected any to the battery. Don't think it is but how would you know.
jimricho said
12:32 AM Jan 4, 2013
I concur with those recommending you replace the batteries with AGMs. Your health is far more important than the cost of replacing the batteries. The link in Vic's (Duh) post offers a brief but comprehensive summary on the subject.
Jim
(PS: thanks Vic, I found it worthwhile too)
mr glassies said
04:26 AM Jan 4, 2013
ok i hope i dont annoy any one with my spelling and gramar but heres my 10 bobs worth
first of theres gota be a decent hole to let in that much gas
second if you can find out exactly were its coming through keep an eye on the surroundings ie the bed clothing ,pillows , the mattress , even the laminate around it , and id even go as far as the nails and staples
i feel for that much gas to come in and make you sick then the gas would be an oxide ????? and could yes could start eating out or rotting that part of the van
this sounds a bit far fetched but look at the way car rot where the batterie is and the nails and staples are much softer then cars
i though there was an ADR on sealing of boots to vans . but then iv had a sails girl tell me you could put a genie in the boot with the batteries because it had a deviding wall but not sealed .
dibs
jimricho said
05:03 AM Jan 4, 2013
Graeme's suggestion (above) is worth following up. However I question the wisdom of installing wet batteries in the confined space such as the caravan boot unless in an enclosure that's sealed from the rest of the boot and and the interior of the van but properly vented to the outside world.
The fumes given off are more likely to be sulphates and sulphuric acid rather than oxides but that is only academic as regardless they are are still corrosive and Graeme's comment is just as (perhaps even more) valid.
I stand by my view that an AGM is more appropriate in the circumstances.
RodLainie said
09:30 AM Jan 4, 2013
Our aim was to let people know our experience and let them do their own research.
Yes there was enough gas coming into the van to cause the health issues we have had. We live in the van 24/7.
No the batteries were not vented to the outside, but in the front boot. The batteries were the sealed type (no maintenance) and in the black casing.
Symptoms:
Dry cough, dry sore eyes, pressure behind the eyes, headaches, sore throat, nose bleeds, gums bleeding, teeth on edge, shortness of breath, ear aches, dizziness, stomach pains. (reported to also cause Pulminary Edema and Cancer)
Since replacing the batteries these symptoms have abated. Very thankful for that.
We placed this on Grey Nomads site to help other people who may be experiencing the same and totally unaware of what could be causing it. I have been to specialists and had CT scans and with no explanation to the cause. We have now found it!
If we can help one person avoid the health issues associated with these batteries then we are happy.
Safe travels everyone.
-- Edited by RodLainie on Friday 4th of January 2013 09:39:13 AM
mr glassies said
04:30 PM Jan 4, 2013
Thanks jim i had had a few beers when i started writing and couldnt think of the gas that comes from batteries .
Dibs
Mike C said
06:29 PM Jan 4, 2013
Hi RodLaine
We all apreciate your letting us all know and I am sure that many out there have now double checked their setups and if suspect will be doing somthing about it.
So cheers and apreciation from me.
regards
Mike
Santa said
08:50 PM Jan 4, 2013
Who originally installed the batteries inside the van without venting?
Happywanderer said
09:28 PM Jan 4, 2013
We certainly thank you for bringing it to our attention RodLaine. I'm sure many of us out there including me will be taking more notice of which battery we finally do buy.
colsa said
02:05 AM Jan 8, 2013
Thanks for all that info, my hubby is in the process of putting solar panels on and we have a battery inside the van under the dining seat, i don't know what type but will check that out when its beer o'clock too hot to go and ask questions now.
Beth54 said
02:25 AM Jan 8, 2013
Thanks very much for this warning RodLaine, and I also hope you are feeling a lot better very soon.
My battery is an AGM deep cycle, and is under the seat in the dinette area. I'm pretty sure it has venting, just not sure about whether it's to the outside. I'll refer this thread to my bil who did the fitout for me.
neilnruth said
06:44 AM Jan 8, 2013
Welcome RodLaine and thanks for the warning. We don't have a battery in our van - and dare I say, I'm inclined to want to keep using the genie instead!
colsa said
02:58 AM Jan 10, 2013
Thanks again for that info, showed hubby your story last night and he has shifted the battery to the back of the van on the outside built a box for it etc etc
Hi Janette
Not sure about the AGM batteries, we just know the GEL batteries don't have the problem. We are on the mend now that we have changed the batteries, however not sure what damage the sulphuric acid fumes have done. Hoping there is no long term damage.
We have heard that a lot of manufacturers use the deep cycle acid batteries. It should be stopped as it is well known by battery specialists the problems they cause and they are messing around with people's health.
Best way we feel is to try and let as many people know as possible.
Cheers
Lainie
-- Edited by RodLainie on Wednesday 2nd of January 2013 08:42:49 PM
-- Edited by RodLainie on Wednesday 2nd of January 2013 09:00:20 PM
Warning for everyone - We have Marine/RV deep cycle acid batteries in our caravan situated in the front boot. During the night they have been charging up but little did we know that they were giving off Sulpuric Acid fumes which was seeping into our bedroom right at our bed head. Hence we have been breathing in the fumes. This has caused us to become very ill. Symptoms are dry sore eyes, coughing, sore throat, headaches, dizziness and stomach pains. I have read that these fumes can also cause cancer. Today we are investing in GEL batteries.
Hi Rod,
My very limited understanding is that lead acid batteries needs to be vented to the outside but AGM and Gel are ok and aren't a worry. I hope that is right as I have an AGM in my van.
I hope you both recover quickly and thank you for taking the time to warn others.
Hi Rod and Lanie
thanks for taking the time to warn us about this issue. I believe I have ooked at over a hundred caravans in the last few months, and all have had Deep Cycle lead acid batteries on board. Now we know, we will not fall foul of this.
I wish you a speedy recovery, and hope to meet you in the playground one day.
AGM and GEL are also lead acid batteries they are just different in their construction but work the same way as wet cell batteries.
Cheers
David
I am not suggesting this info is correct, but this is what one RV Repairer & Parts mob say about the different types of batteries.
Scroll down past the Generators to get to the battery info, see;
http://www.absolutecaravancare.com/Electrical.html
After reading that, AGMs sound great, but I will continue to check and top up my battery water every month. The batteries are located externally and the fumes just get blown by the dust and air.
I top them up monthly with pure water, no minerals etc just bought from the supermarket in a cask...
Fumes inside would be dangerous....
I've never been happy with batteries inside an RV, a Jayco caravan I had, the batteries were under the bed, also and Avan Camper trailer Aliner and a Hi Ace Campervan. On the other hand, a Coromal caravan I had the battery was in a separate compartment with outside access (on roll out sliders) and lockable hatch. Seemed a much better option to me.
Hi RodLaine
Sorry to hear of your experiance and hope that you are both feeling much better.
I have only owned two RVs the first an Ultimate camper and the second a paradise motor home in both cases the battery compartments are fully sealed from the internal of the van and vented to the outside.
I would be very concerned (regardless of the battery type) if manufacturers are installing batteries within the internals of a van such that vented gasses can cause the problems you describe.
If I were you (asuming that you havent modifided the unit) would be taking this up with the manufacturer for a fix and some compensation for the suffering you have experianced.
It may be a design fault with the van and making the manufacturer aware will stop others suffering the same issue in the future.
As consumers we rely on the manufacture to provide a product fit and safe for its intended use.
Being gassed in ones sleep is ceartianly not a fit and safe enviroment.
I am no expert but would assume that any type of battery can have issues if say the charging system is faulty etc.
I saw one a few years back at Tom Price explode within the front boot of a caravan (do not know the type).
Cheers
Mike
-- Edited by Mike C on Thursday 3rd of January 2013 08:37:59 AM
From what I have read AGM or Gel is the way to go especially if ventilation is limited. AGM having some advantages (Charge rate).
Deep Cycle and Starter type wet cells (sealed or not) should be vented to the outside (and I assume sealed to the inside) of your RV.
This is only my interpretation of my research, I claim no expertise other than the ability to click a mouse :)
cheers
Mike
-- Edited by Mike C on Thursday 3rd of January 2013 01:01:59 PM
Very interesting indeed Duh. I have my Avan battery under the bed but in a battery box with lid and the box is vented to outside, so all should be ok.
http://www.atbatt.com/blog/29.asp
We live in our van so 10 months of breathing in these gases has taken it's toll. The above website explains the problems and effects. I don't want to see anyone go through what we have just gone through. Your health is everything when travelling the road out there.
I looked at our 2 batteries which are under the bed, without ventilation that I could see, and all sealed up in black containers. The Jayco handbook says they are the "Deep Cycle type which is fully sealed". Looks like more research is necessary.
Our old ones were also Deep Cycle and looked fully sealed but at the top on one side was the small hole to let gases out.
hope this helps
Jim
(PS: thanks Vic, I found it worthwhile too)
first of theres gota be a decent hole to let in that much gas
second if you can find out exactly were its coming through keep an eye on the surroundings
ie the bed clothing ,pillows , the mattress , even the laminate around it , and id even go as far as the nails and staples
i feel for that much gas to come in and make you sick then the gas would be an oxide ????? and could yes could start eating out or rotting that part of the van
this sounds a bit far fetched but look at the way car rot where the batterie is and the nails and staples are much softer then cars
i though there was an ADR on sealing of boots to vans . but then iv had a sails girl tell me you could put a genie in the boot with the batteries because it had a deviding wall but not sealed .
dibs
The fumes given off are more likely to be sulphates and sulphuric acid rather than oxides but that is only academic as regardless they are are still corrosive and Graeme's comment is just as (perhaps even more) valid.
I stand by my view that an AGM is more appropriate in the circumstances.
Our aim was to let people know our experience and let them do their own research.
Yes there was enough gas coming into the van to cause the health issues we have had. We live in the van 24/7.
No the batteries were not vented to the outside, but in the front boot. The batteries were the sealed type (no maintenance) and in the black casing.
Symptoms:
Dry cough, dry sore eyes, pressure behind the eyes, headaches, sore throat, nose bleeds, gums bleeding, teeth on edge, shortness of breath, ear aches, dizziness, stomach pains. (reported to also cause Pulminary Edema and Cancer)
Since replacing the batteries these symptoms have abated. Very thankful for that.
We placed this on Grey Nomads site to help other people who may be experiencing the same and totally unaware of what could be causing it. I have been to specialists and had CT scans and with no explanation to the cause. We have now found it!
If we can help one person avoid the health issues associated with these batteries then we are happy.
Safe travels everyone.
-- Edited by RodLainie on Friday 4th of January 2013 09:39:13 AM
Dibs
We all apreciate your letting us all know and I am sure that many out there have now double checked their setups and if suspect will be doing somthing about it.
So cheers and apreciation from me.
regards
Mike
Who originally installed the batteries inside the van without venting?
Thanks for all that info, my hubby is in the process of putting solar panels on and we have a battery inside the van under the dining seat, i don't know what type but will check that out when its beer o'clock too hot to go and ask questions now.
Thanks very much for this warning RodLaine, and I also hope you are feeling a lot better very soon.
My battery is an AGM deep cycle, and is under the seat in the dinette area. I'm pretty sure it has venting, just not sure about whether it's to the outside. I'll refer this thread to my bil who did the fitout for me.