It's the seal that does the job NOT whats in the hubs.
You can get double lipped seals (one side keeps oil/grease IN and the other keeps water/dirt OUT).
Most/many Oz boat trailers have single seals only as the machined surface on the axle is too narrow for some double lipped seals.
Hope this helps.
SORRY POSTED TWICE AS FIRST ONE WAS LOST IN SPACE
-- Edited by Baz421 on Friday 18th of January 2013 10:00:29 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:18 PM Jan 18, 2013
Another duplicate problem....
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Friday 18th of January 2013 11:19:26 PM
Dougwe said
02:42 AM Jan 19, 2013
I know what your saying, this should be in "Techies" and yes I sort of agree but some of the topics in here plus this one I think are good enough to be in "General" so sorry if you disagree.
I have been chatting to a mate of mine today and he was talking about how he changed his boat trailer wheel bearings from Grease to the oil bath system. Has or does anyone here have the oil bath instead of grease. It sounded good to me but then I'm not all that good with Tech stuff so OK all you knowledgeable Grey Nomads I put the question out there.
Now I do ask for no arguments Ladies and Gentlemen please, enjoy the playground and,
jimricho said
04:18 AM Jan 19, 2013
I think that system is intended to address a problem that is specific to boat trailers. That is that wheel bearings warm up while driving and then are subject to sudden cooling when dunked in the water (often salt water) when launching the boat. This causes the bearings to suck in water and the combined effect of salt water, and consequent corrosion turns the grease into grinding paste.
Many boat trailers are fitted with "Bearing Buddies" that enable the grease to be maintained under positive pressure and easily replenished with grease. I had these fitted to my boat trailer when I owned one. The oil bath system is another attempt to address this issue. How successful it is I have no idea.
I don't see this as being an issue with caravans and camper trailers so I don't see the point in fitting them.
hako said
05:33 AM Jan 19, 2013
Doug, when bearings get hot (as they will especially when braking), oil will then leak past the oil seal and contaminate the brake shoes. Tried and proven method of repacking bearings is still the best IMHO. Regards
Baz421 said
05:45 AM Jan 19, 2013
Same problem with grease and oil filled hubs - YOU NEED TO KEEP THE WATER OUT. Seals need to achieve this no matter what is inside hub, oil or grease.
You can argue positives and negatives for both BUT it's the seal that does the job, not whats in the hub.
For serious applicatons you can get double lipped seals (ie one lip keeps grease/oil IN and the other keeps water/dirt OUT), but boat trailers in Oz tend to use single seals only and the machined surface on the axle may not be wide enough for double lipped seals.
Hope this helps explain it a bit.
Cheers Baz
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:11 AM Jan 19, 2013
Every full floating rear axle wheel bearing runs in oil from the differential. No problem with lubrication.
The purpose of the "Bearing Buddy" system is to maintain a positive pressure in the bearing area such that if there is a slight leak at the seal, it leaks grease out instead of water in.
Oil systems can do the same thing because there is typically a bottle of oil above the axle that replaces any oil that leaks out past the seal.
Mercedes Unimogs actually pressurise the whole drive train (including diffs, wheel bearings, gearboxes and universal joints) with air at 0.5psi to keep water out, but they tend to cost a bit too much for the average punter. :)
Cheers, Peter
blaze said
08:46 AM Jan 19, 2013
hako wrote:
Doug, when bearings get hot (as they will especially when braking), oil will then leak past the oil seal and contaminate the brake shoes. Tried and proven method of repacking bearings is still the best IMHO. Regards
the statement that they will leak ecause of heat is misleading, there are many places where oil is sealed with the same type of lip seal as a wheel bearing with heat far in excess of what a braked wheel will produce. I do however agree with you the the best and proven method is qualiity grease is the way to go for wheel bearings. How many times do you see a dust cap that has been knocked off a wheel and its still turning, now if that was oil it would have leaked out and led to a failure
cheers
blaze
snapper49 said
05:59 PM Jan 19, 2013
The oil system really is a much better way of lubricating the bearings The bearing rollers etc are continually immersed in oil When one takes a greased bearing out you will see nice clean shiny areas where the grease is restricted from penetrating With the oil system one can view the level of oil at a glance as the caps are clear Have had experience with both and the oil system is much better and no leaks
jimricho said
01:51 AM Jan 20, 2013
I've been told to repack and if necessary replace the van's wheel bearings every two years or 10,000kms. My Pajero is almost ten years old, 135,000kms, regularly dealer serviced, and still has its original wheel bearings. The bearings are not lubricated from the diffs as the Paj is independent suspension all round. What I can't work out is why I'm supposed to replace the van's bearings so frequently but not the car's???????
This a genuine question and not a challenge to anyone's previous posts on this topic.
turbopete said
02:22 AM Jan 20, 2013
Hi Jim there is no good reason to change van bearings at 10,000,,,,is an urban myth to frighten us old farts into parting with our hard earned,,im allowed to say that i,m 72
Dougwe said
03:40 AM Jan 20, 2013
Thanks everyone for your comments so far. I will wait and see if any more comments make there way here before a final decision.
jimricho said
03:56 AM Jan 20, 2013
turbopete wrote:
Hi Jim there is no good reason to change van bearings at 10,000,,,,is an urban myth to frighten us old farts into parting with our hard earned,,im allowed to say that i,m 72
Just as I thought!
jimricho said
04:00 AM Jan 20, 2013
Dougwe wrote:
Thanks everyone for your comments so far. I will wait and see if any more comments make there way here before a final decision.
I can't help but think you'd be spending your hard-earned on a non-existent problem. Save your dough for more important high priority expenses. (beer, wine etc)
blaze said
06:57 AM Jan 20, 2013
jimricho wrote:
I've been told to repack and if necessary replace the van's wheel bearings every two years or 10,000kms. My Pajero is almost ten years old, 135,000kms, regularly dealer serviced, and still has its original wheel bearings. The bearings are not lubricated from the diffs as the Paj is independent suspension all round. What I can't work out is why I'm supposed to replace the van's bearings so frequently but not the car's???????
This a genuine question and not a challenge to anyone's previous posts on this topic.
the bearings in the pajero will be about 3 inches in diameter the ones in the van about half that. the van sits for longer with no rotation and load, not a good combanation. In saying all that your van bearings should do 10 years with proper servicing but for the price and ease of changinging , every couple of years is proably a good service time (well before any failure)
cheers
blaze
hako said
07:13 AM Jan 20, 2013
jimricho wrote:
I can't help but think you'd be spending your hard-earned on a non-existent problem. Save your dough for more important high priority expenses. (beer, wine etc)
That is a very sensible post.
wasn_me said
08:29 AM Jan 20, 2013
If you have to replace van wheel bearings use quality brand name bearings, timken etc. Most of the under $20 bearing kits from "cheapy stores" would be unknown quality, they usually don't even have a maker name on them. Also use a good quality high temperature, water resistant grease. There is usually grease on the shelf specifically designed for disc brake hubs, that will be suitable for high temp.
On a single axle van you often have two wheels sharing the weight that four would be sharing on a car (another reason for more regular maintenance than the car). It's an area you can not try to save money. Wheel bearings or springs on the van are the two most common things to strand a traveller. It pays to carry a spare bearing set & a container of grease. Murphys Law, if you've got spares you won't have a breakdown.
I agree with snapper49, oil is a far better lubricant than grease. I would be worried if oil did get into the brakes. I'd like to see it sucessfully used & proven before I went that way.
Cheers Pete
-- Edited by wasn_me on Sunday 20th of January 2013 08:59:49 AM
-- Edited by wasn_me on Sunday 20th of January 2013 09:03:24 AM
Dougwe said
01:42 PM Jan 20, 2013
I just stocked up on some of that amba fluid yesterday, it was on a good special, so no money left for the Avan. Mmmm, maybe the Avan bearing could sit in a beer bath?
jimricho said
01:58 PM Jan 20, 2013
Dougwe wrote:
Mmmm, maybe the Avan bearing could sit in a beer bath?
Put through a kidney filter first perhaps???????
jimricho said
02:08 PM Jan 20, 2013
blaze wrote:
jimricho wrote:
I've been told to repack and if necessary replace the van's wheel bearings every two years or 10,000kms. My Pajero is almost ten years old, 135,000kms, regularly dealer serviced, and still has its original wheel bearings. The bearings are not lubricated from the diffs as the Paj is independent suspension all round. What I can't work out is why I'm supposed to replace the van's bearings so frequently but not the car's???????
This a genuine question and not a challenge to anyone's previous posts on this topic.
the bearings in the pajero will be about 3 inches in diameter the ones in the van about half that. the van sits for longer with no rotation and load, not a good combanation. In saying all that your van bearings should do 10 years with proper servicing but for the price and ease of changinging , every couple of years is proably a good service time (well before any failure)
cheers
blaze
My erstwhile van maintenance wallah has been replacing the bearings each year, not just checking them. I do several thousand kilometres each year. The van uses Ford bearings and has an ATM of 1350kg.
I say "erstwhile" because last service he found a broken brake shoe and claimed he couldn't get a suitable replacement so he replaced the whole backing plate assembly, both sides, magnets and all, and charged me an arm and a leg for doing so. He no longer has my business.
Jim
blaze said
06:58 PM Jan 20, 2013
wasn_me wrote:
If you have to replace van wheel bearings use quality brand name bearings, timken etc. Most of the under $20 bearing kits from "cheapy stores" would be unknown quality, they usually don't even have a maker name on them. Also use a good quality high temperature, water resistant grease. There is usually grease on the shelf specifically designed for disc brake hubs, that will be suitable for high temp.
On a single axle van you often have two wheels sharing the weight that four would be sharing on a car (another reason for more regular maintenance than the car). It's an area you can not try to save money. Wheel bearings or springs on the van are the two most common things to strand a traveller. It pays to carry a spare bearing set & a container of grease. Murphys Law, if you've got spares you won't have a breakdown.
I agree with snapper49, oil is a far better lubricant than grease. I would be worried if oil did get into the brakes. I'd like to see it sucessfully used & proven before I went that way.
Cheers Pete
Truck trailers have been using the oil bath method on the trailers for at least 25 years and doing millions of kms. I still maintain for the average van owner the KISS method is best, keep the grease
cheers
blaze
-- Edited by wasn_me on Sunday 20th of January 2013 08:59:49 AM
-- Edited by wasn_me on Sunday 20th of January 2013 09:03:24 AM
Hi all.
It's the seal that does the job NOT whats in the hubs.
You can get double lipped seals (one side keeps oil/grease IN and the other keeps water/dirt OUT).
Most/many Oz boat trailers have single seals only as the machined surface on the axle is too narrow for some double lipped seals.
Hope this helps.
SORRY POSTED TWICE AS FIRST ONE WAS LOST IN SPACE
-- Edited by Baz421 on Friday 18th of January 2013 10:00:29 PM
Another duplicate problem....
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Friday 18th of January 2013 11:19:26 PM
I know what your saying, this should be in "Techies" and yes I sort of agree but some of the topics in here plus this one I think are good enough to be in "General" so sorry if you disagree.
I have been chatting to a mate of mine today and he was talking about how he changed his boat trailer wheel bearings from Grease to the oil bath system. Has or does anyone here have the oil bath instead of grease. It sounded good to me but then I'm not all that good with Tech stuff so OK all you knowledgeable Grey Nomads I put the question out there.
Now I do ask for no arguments Ladies and Gentlemen please, enjoy the playground and,
Many boat trailers are fitted with "Bearing Buddies" that enable the grease to be maintained under positive pressure and easily replenished with grease. I had these fitted to my boat trailer when I owned one. The oil bath system is another attempt to address this issue. How successful it is I have no idea.
I don't see this as being an issue with caravans and camper trailers so I don't see the point in fitting them.
Regards
Same problem with grease and oil filled hubs - YOU NEED TO KEEP THE WATER OUT. Seals need to achieve this no matter what is inside hub, oil or grease.
You can argue positives and negatives for both BUT it's the seal that does the job, not whats in the hub.
For serious applicatons you can get double lipped seals (ie one lip keeps grease/oil IN and the other keeps water/dirt OUT), but boat trailers in Oz tend to use single seals only and the machined surface on the axle may not be wide enough for double lipped seals.
Hope this helps explain it a bit.
Cheers Baz
No problem with lubrication.
The purpose of the "Bearing Buddy" system is to maintain a positive pressure in the bearing area such that if there is a slight leak at the seal, it leaks grease out instead of water in.
Oil systems can do the same thing because there is typically a bottle of oil above the axle that replaces any oil that leaks out past the seal.
Mercedes Unimogs actually pressurise the whole drive train (including diffs, wheel bearings, gearboxes and universal joints) with air at 0.5psi to keep water out, but they tend to cost a bit too much for the average punter. :)
Cheers,
Peter
the statement that they will leak ecause of heat is misleading, there are many places where oil is sealed with the same type of lip seal as a wheel bearing with heat far in excess of what a braked wheel will produce. I do however agree with you the the best and proven method is qualiity grease is the way to go for wheel bearings. How many times do you see a dust cap that has been knocked off a wheel and its still turning, now if that was oil it would have leaked out and led to a failure
cheers
blaze
The bearing rollers etc are continually immersed in oil
When one takes a greased bearing out you will see nice clean shiny areas where the grease is restricted from penetrating
With the oil system one can view the level of oil at a glance as the caps are clear
Have had experience with both and the oil system is much better and no leaks
This a genuine question and not a challenge to anyone's previous posts on this topic.
Thanks everyone for your comments so far. I will wait and see if any more comments make there way here before a final decision.
Just as I thought!
I can't help but think you'd be spending your hard-earned on a non-existent problem. Save your dough for more important high priority expenses. (beer, wine etc)
the bearings in the pajero will be about 3 inches in diameter the ones in the van about half that. the van sits for longer with no rotation and load, not a good combanation. In saying all that your van bearings should do 10 years with proper servicing but for the price and ease of changinging , every couple of years is proably a good service time (well before any failure)
cheers
blaze
That is a very sensible post.
If you have to replace van wheel bearings use quality brand name bearings, timken etc. Most of the under $20 bearing kits from "cheapy stores" would be unknown quality, they usually don't even have a maker name on them. Also use a good quality high temperature, water resistant grease. There is usually grease on the shelf specifically designed for disc brake hubs, that will be suitable for high temp.
On a single axle van you often have two wheels sharing the weight that four would be sharing on a car (another reason for more regular maintenance than the car). It's an area you can not try to save money. Wheel bearings or springs on the van are the two most common things to strand a traveller. It pays to carry a spare bearing set & a container of grease. Murphys Law, if you've got spares you won't have a breakdown.
I agree with snapper49, oil is a far better lubricant than grease. I would be worried if oil did get into the brakes. I'd like to see it sucessfully used & proven before I went that way.
Cheers Pete
-- Edited by wasn_me on Sunday 20th of January 2013 08:59:49 AM
-- Edited by wasn_me on Sunday 20th of January 2013 09:03:24 AM
I just stocked up on some of that amba fluid yesterday, it was on a good special, so no money left for the Avan. Mmmm, maybe the Avan bearing could sit in a beer bath?
Put through a kidney filter first perhaps???????
My erstwhile van maintenance wallah has been replacing the bearings each year, not just checking them. I do several thousand kilometres each year. The van uses Ford bearings and has an ATM of 1350kg.
I say "erstwhile" because last service he found a broken brake shoe and claimed he couldn't get a suitable replacement so he replaced the whole backing plate assembly, both sides, magnets and all, and charged me an arm and a leg for doing so. He no longer has my business.
Jim