Post content removed by poster....... My comments seem to create angst among those who believe our typical Grey Nomad travelling status, will get better before it gets worse, in relation to all those considerate and compassionate Caravan Park Operators working hand in hand with their local Councils to give Grey Nomads a better deal in the future....I believe my previous experience as a Bank Manager over 20 years to many Caravan Park business's, and later as a Registered Business Agent involved in selling various Caravan Parks gives me a reasonable insight into what is currently happening with 'disappearing' powered sites typically all over Australia and the reasons therefor.....anyone that believes the tariff will become more reasonable in future with increasing demand and reduced sites ...those that have not been replaced by cabins.....I believe are deluding themselves about the way business works....usually driven by equally compassionate 'Accountants'......Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Wednesday 20th of February 2013 10:33:35 PM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Wednesday 20th of February 2013 10:34:51 PM
herbie said
10:41 PM Feb 20, 2013
Gordon, i agree with a lot of what you wrote , but i think you are missing the point here regarding free camping. You mention to just move on if there is no free parking to the next town or area where there is , well i ask you where dose one go to when the free parking has all dissapeared from our great country.It will not just start and stop in one particular area , it will just snow ball. If one area is successful in closing down free camping , then the next area will follow, as the attitude of the c/ park owners in that area will want the same. The few free camps that are surving in the area we are living in at the moment, is only there due to the mining industry being in this particular region.Due to the c/ parks being full with workers.I would hate to see beautiful camps as Calliope river and Banaraby closed. And that was the aim from c/ park owners here, before the oil and gas project started. But now they have gone quiet as their parks are full of us workers paying double of what they would have got from the normal paying public passing through.
gordon_adl said
11:29 PM Feb 20, 2013
Look I'm all for free camping. It's a great thing. The wife and utilise it that option whenever possible. However, when we do go to places and there are none, then we pay up. If it's beyond our price range we don't stay. It's really that simple. What we don't do is slur cp's and we don't go to 'war' with them. If the 'free camping' isn't available, and you really want to see that place, then you have a choice. Pay and stay or don't and move on.
I'd love to do a year long cruise on the QE, but i can't afford it. That doesn't mean they are money grubbing sods. It just means it's out of my price range so I won't do it.
It's the tone of some people's posts that crap me off. And yes, some cp's are deficient in their services. But that happens in all of hospitality. Some restaurants are great, others are rip offs. Does that mean I'm going to go and slur all restaurants and demand a boycott? No, I just take the good with the bad and am happy that I can actually afford to do things in this great country that many cannot.
There are 100's of freecamps available in australia. If not, these camp6 books and apps would not be in business listing them. It's a give and take and we can't expect to have everything just perfect.
herbie said
11:38 PM Feb 20, 2013
MY point is if we do not make a stand now we will not have a choice in a few years time.
beiffe said
11:43 PM Feb 20, 2013
Perhaps there should be a limit on the cabins in a caravan park.
Say 1 cabin per 10 caravan sites instead of now where there are 10 cabins or more to 1 caravan site.
They are called caravan parks because they are suppose to cater for caravans and the nomadic travelers and not be a residential village or a cabin park.
Caravan parks get a government subsidy and rebates as far as I know that the others don't get so perhaps that should be brought up with government where they define what is a caravan park and what the are allowed to have / do. or perhaps they should all operate on an equal footing.
Many are full of cabins so competing with the motels and hotels and rental market and their little shop is competing with the local shop that used to be down the road. Do they sell the milk etc the same price as woolies in the town ???
I don't know any other business group that gets government help and then ask for government protection.
This stuff started in Barcaldine in QLD when a person setup a caravan park knowing that there was a free site at the show grounds and then he got the show grounds closed down to camping and the whole town went down hill and the small businesses are now screaming for the tourist to come back.
This situation then spread state wide where small towns even with no caravan park were not allowed to offer camping. Then they started getting the schools etc for allowing parking etc. Then it crept into NSW and then TAS and now there is some in VIC I believe.
I know where volunteers have been told they must book into CP and pay full fees while doing work after the floods in QLD and wonder why there is no site set up. The councils are now frightened of the CP lobby and running scared.
This problem is not just on the coast or in one area, it is spreading all across Australia and soon it will mean that many people will not be able to travel and many of the people now using free camping will be forced into the parks to live and then there will be no sites for the weekend warriors or the holiday person and besides the fees will be too high. Take the prices in the areas where the mining is starting. Care to spend a few months in one of those sites with the fees charged.
I think we should all settle down and realise our way of live is threatened and we are pretty powerless to do anything about but let the people know in the towns where you would have like to stop that you cant because of the camping restriction and then just move to somewhere you are welcome and again let them know you are there because the town allows you to camp in their shire etc and you are spending money as your thank you.
Hopefully if some towns find that their tourist trade has gone down the road then they may reconsider, but until we make the decision to either buckle or move on then it will not change.
For those that support the parks and consider them the only or preferred option then that's great, you support them and we wont encroach on your spots as long as we have ours to use. If ours dry up then you might be looking for a rest stop yourself as you won't be able to use what was once called a caravan park as it will be full and also too expensive to use.
I don't use CP but have no problem with them as they are there for the people who choose to use them but I do get upset if they stop me from enjoying my style of life because it does not suit them.
Regards Brian
Regards Brian
jetj said
12:02 AM Feb 21, 2013
If you have a look at Camps 7 some camps were included and closed before the book was printed, so IMO we are in danger of losing free camps if we don't act.
Love your post Brian, great info I didn't know.
the rocket said
02:54 AM Feb 21, 2013
beiffe wrote:
Perhaps there should be a limit on the cabins in a caravan park.
Say 1 cabin per 10 caravan sites instead of now where there are 10 cabins or more to 1 caravan site.
They are called caravan parks because they are suppose to cater for caravans and the nomadic travelers and not be a residential village or a cabin park.
Caravan parks get a government subsidy and rebates as far as I know that the others don't get so perhaps that should be brought up with government where they define what is a caravan park and what the are allowed to have / do. or perhaps they should all operate on an equal footing.
Many are full of cabins so competing with the motels and hotels and rental market and their little shop is competing with the local shop that used to be down the road. Do they sell the milk etc the same price as woolies in the town ???
I don't know any other business group that gets government help and then ask for government protection.
This stuff started in Barcaldine in QLD when a person setup a caravan park knowing that there was a free site at the show grounds and then he got the show grounds closed down to camping and the whole town went down hill and the small businesses are now screaming for the tourist to come back.
This situation then spread state wide where small towns even with no caravan park were not allowed to offer camping. Then they started getting the schools etc for allowing parking etc. Then it crept into NSW and then TAS and now there is some in VIC I believe.
I know where volunteers have been told they must book into CP and pay full fees while doing work after the floods in QLD and wonder why there is no site set up. The councils are now frightened of the CP lobby and running scared.
This problem is not just on the coast or in one area, it is spreading all across Australia and soon it will mean that many people will not be able to travel and many of the people now using free camping will be forced into the parks to live and then there will be no sites for the weekend warriors or the holiday person and besides the fees will be too high. Take the prices in the areas where the mining is starting. Care to spend a few months in one of those sites with the fees charged.
I think we should all settle down and realise our way of live is threatened and we are pretty powerless to do anything about but let the people know in the towns where you would have like to stop that you cant because of the camping restriction and then just move to somewhere you are welcome and again let them know you are there because the town allows you to camp in their shire etc and you are spending money as your thank you.
Hopefully if some towns find that their tourist trade has gone down the road then they may reconsider, but until we make the decision to either buckle or move on then it will not change.
For those that support the parks and consider them the only or preferred option then that's great, you support them and we wont encroach on your spots as long as we have ours to use. If ours dry up then you might be looking for a rest stop yourself as you won't be able to use what was once called a caravan park as it will be full and also too expensive to use.
I don't use CP but have no problem with them as they are there for the people who choose to use them but I do get upset if they stop me from enjoying my style of life because it does not suit them.
Regards Brian
Regards Brian
thanks Brian, you always have something interesting and informative to say. made interesting reading and now i know a bit more than before. thanks and kind regards. rocket.
rockylizard said
06:06 AM Feb 21, 2013
beiffe wrote:
~~~~~This stuff started in Barcaldine in QLD when a person setup a caravan park knowing that there was a free site at the show grounds and then he got the show grounds closed down to camping and the whole town went down hill and the small businesses are now screaming for the tourist to come back.
This situation then spread state wide where small towns even with no caravan park were not allowed to offer camping. Then they started getting the schools etc for allowing parking etc. Then it crept into NSW and then TAS and now there is some in VIC I believe. ~~~~~
Regards Brian
Gday...
Good post Brian and the Barcaldine example is a good one. However, I think you have overstated it a bit.
There are many, many free camps still in existance in QLD, FULLY supported by their council, businesses and the general community. Longreach has two good free-camps close to town and a local councillor visits the camp every couple of days to welcome campers to the area and to gain feedback.
Aramac and Muttaburra both have van parks that are $10/night pay for two and stay for three. Dunns Lake free but $5 for one of the four power poles.
Blackall, Isisford, Oma Waterhole, Jericho all not that far from Barcaldine have free camping areas - not 'free-camp/rest areas'.
In no way am I trying to detract from your advocacy but there are still 100s of small towns that I have stayed in last year and the year before that genuinely welcome the traveller and are glad for our custom.
I do think the main problem is where there are (or have been) "rest areas" for overnight (or 48 hour stops) close to town on highways that are the target. These get such a 'hammering' from careless travellers in the "season" - May to Sept - when there are 1,000s of vans on the road all squeezing into these 'rest areas', and the pressure causes bins to be overflowing and making the area look unsightly. I must admit I think the 30 or more vans I saw at the 'free-camp/rest area' at Emerald Botanical Gardens was indeed unsightly, ugly and a place I could not bring myself to stop at in the 'season'.
To be that crowded in such a small, gravel area out in the open would easily drive me to a van park - fee or no fee.
Again, I really am not trying to detract from the thrust of being aware that 'free-camp/rest areas' will continue to be under threat in many towns. I do feel this will be at the larger towns that attract the 'tourist' as distinct from genuine nomadic travellers.
cheers - John
Golddetectornomad said
07:49 AM Feb 21, 2013
One Caravan Park in large S.A. Town/City is now totally 100% relocatable cabins,100 +, all paying rentals and now NOT ONE caravan park overnight space is available...originally sold as a fully operational 'traditional' Caravan Park......by process of osmosis they have transformed the park into permanent accomodation with of course subsequent re-sales bringing healthy commissions to the Park owners.......I believe local Councils should be the community 'watchdog' to prevent the obvious 'change of use', however I believe many don't even realize,or worse, what is happening until its 'fait accompli'.....this "Park" would now be the envy of many 'traditional' Caravan Parks as more and more cabins/"relocatable" homettes are placed year by year on what were previously powered and unpowered sites..... Grey Nomads are indeed being grabbed by their gonads and have every right to be indignant....as laws of supply and demand turn further in the favour of the large cartels.....less sites being competed for by increasing numbers of travellers and with larger rigs....I wonder if those who piously state NOW they are happy to'pay their way' edventually give lip when tariffs continue to rise beyond their capacity to pay.....and the Independant sites all over Australia have been attacked by stealth...which is of course part of their whole Agenda.....if you dont use it and look after it, you will surely lose it....dont be conned one thing we do have going for us at this stage of our lives is recognising BS when it is presented in its various guises and by vested interests......Hoo Roo.
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Thursday 21st of February 2013 07:53:31 AM
sandsmere said
03:17 PM Feb 21, 2013
We free / low cost camp probably 95% of the time . Occasionally we do stay in CPs .
We will never stay in a CP in a town that has closed camping areas because of pressure from a CP owner .
That's our choice and nothing will change that decision .
Duh said
03:24 PM Feb 21, 2013
rockylizard wrote:
Elizabeth White, CEO of Victorian Caravan Parks Association.
We welcome tourists to our great city, but we expect them to pay their way and to respect our local laws. No-one has the right to a free holiday campsite, and no-one has the right to set up camp where it causes inconvenience and cost to others she said.
She was commenting on the recent move by Melbourne City Council moving the backpackers in campervans illegally parked near the Yarra. I must admit I agree with her comment generally, and also that no-one has the right to a free holiday campsite.
John, in this case I agree with the actions of the Council in clamping down in this area and the comments of the CEO of VCPA in that particular case. As the VCPA is not the Council, and they represent caravan parks and are not there to police free camping, it is hard not to see their comments as anything other than anti free camping IMHO. These Associations in various states are lobbying the government to close free camping areas and are in general anti free camping. See this extract;
"Governments are being lobyied to close overnight stops by the caravan park industry so they can boost their income "
However those who abuse existing free camping areas or camp overnight in areas not designated for free camping are merely providing fuel for the anti free camping brigade cause.
-- Edited by Duh on Thursday 21st of February 2013 03:49:52 PM
beiffe said
04:30 PM Feb 21, 2013
Hi I did not mean that ALL the campsites have been closed but the trend was started in Barcaldine and has resulted in sites in the stae being progressivly being closed as the CP in the area gets the urge to close them down.
The argument used / started at Barcaldine is now being used in most of Australia and will spread further as we have seen in all the eastern states at the moment and it will spread to SA and the other states.
We can only hope that some of the small councils will retain their camps and these are the ones that I will use.
I have actually decided that I have no real need to go to QLD so they have lost all my custom but then I am only one so it will not worry them, but my money is given to the other states.
One of the ways they have missed out is that there was a request for me to be involved in Blazeaid in QLD, but I rejected the offer and decided to stay in VIC to help. This I have now done twice in subsequent years so not only do I not get to spend money in their towns, I am not helping after their disasters and I know I am only one of many who have made that decision. Many of these organizations rely on Nomads and if we feel we are not welcome do you consider we will travel up there at our expense and pay to help an area where we are made to feel unwelcome.
Regards Brian
GaryKelly said
05:34 PM Feb 21, 2013
The word "lobby" worries me. If CP owners have organized themselves into a lobby group, with disproportionate influence on local councils, the promotion of free camp facilities will obviously not be on their agenda. It seems to me from what I read on these forums that GNs are also organized. Ultimately, the dollar will rule, and it's the GNs who have control of the dollar through their spending power. No lobby group, no matter how influential, is powerful enough to take on the almighty dollar and win.
Baz421 said
08:37 PM Feb 21, 2013
sandsmere wrote:
We free / low cost camp probably 95% of the time . Occasionally we do stay in CPs .
We will never stay in a CP in a town that has closed camping areas because of pressure from a CP owner .
That's our choice and nothing will change that decision .
Agree sandsmere. We are in similar position,,, still lots of bush areas out there.
Another strategy we have used is to "arrive" at the next days attraction ie historical village/major attraction late in afternoon and stay overnight in the carpark to gain entry when it opens - never had a problem.
Also if in city areas you can go to industrial areas - suggest choose well lit area - and stay,,,, most have regular security patrols around to watch over you,,,,,lol.
This will not be for all and I'll probably cop some flack,,, so be it, BUT detractors please note WE TAKE ALL OUR WASTE WITH US.....
-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 21st of February 2013 08:37:58 PM
Duh said
08:38 PM Feb 21, 2013
Many caravan park owners belong to associations that promote their business and are anti free camping. See this one for instance;
This is such an emotive problem. There will always be "camping areas" throughout this land. They have been there for decades, and many of us on this forum have been using them throughout our lives. Quite probably beginning in tents, through to our modern vans and motorhomes. These camping grounds will very often be at no cost and some of them - State Forest Parks, National Parks, council allocated camping areas - will require a small fee to utilise. The Caravan Park "Industry" will not, and can not, close them.
The "free-camps" that keep getting threatened, in the majority of cases, are those that are actually 'rest areas' for restricted periods (eg 24/48 hours) to allow the traveller to rest. These 'free-camps/rest areas' are usually close to, or within, towns and on major roads. Progressive councils provide them, in many instances, to promote their town as "RV Friendly" and to generate some cashflow into their businesses and communities.
Unfortunately, there are those within these communities that do not want their "progressive" council to provide these - for a range of reasons, including their own hysteria that they are losing $$ from the travelling public staying in their establishments. Others within the community become peeved when there are 10, 20 or 30 vans/motorhomes parked in full view and the unfortunate, often unavoidable, overflowing rubbish bins; need to clean the toilets daily, maintenance of facilities etc. They see this as a cost the council should not be absorbing. You may call them 'closed minded' but, unfortunately, they have the same right to have those opinions as we have for ours.
The main areas/towns that are so active in being "anti-free-camp" are generally those within tourist areas that attract a very large travelling public and the scenario I describe in the paragraph above drives communities to not see the point of a "free handout".
I do believe that the very agressive, and active, push by 'traveller groups' (eg CMCA) only help to get the hackles up of those people who are already negative to 'free-campers' in 'rest areas'. So there has devloped a two-sided stand-off pressuring councils. At the end of the day, (OH how I hate that phrase !) they are all politicans and they will usually side with those who are within their territory and cast a vote at the always upcoming council elections.
I visited the website Vic has posted above. I could not find very much that was "anti-free-camping" on the site. However, I copy the following from that site -
Elizabeth White, CEO of Victorian Caravan Parks Association.
We welcome tourists to our great city, but we expect them to pay their way and to respect our local laws. No-one has the right to a free holiday campsite, and no-one has the right to set up camp where it causes inconvenience and cost to others she said.
She was commenting on the recent move by Melbourne City Council moving the backpackers in campervans illegally parked near the Yarra. I must admit I agree with her comment generally, and also that no-one has the right to a free holiday campsite.
As I have already stated, camping in 'rest areas' will continue to remain an emotive problem - perhaps with little chance of a mutually acceptable resolution.
From my perspective, I will continue to travel this wide, brown, incredible land utilising as many camping grounds as I can find and spend my time at those that are attractive. If a fee is required to stay at such places, so be it. Should I simply need to sleep overnight due to a late stop during a journey, then I will prop wherever my rig will fit. Other than that, I will not camp in designated 'rest areas' near towns.
Cheers - John
brickies said
09:47 PM Feb 21, 2013
John Home hill in North Queensland have a great set up for free camp which is being getting a bad name in the local community because of miss use by back packer setting up camp for long periods making lots of mesh , this would stop other community from doing like wise , the business might like RV traveller but a lot of locals have other thought and the councilors have to listen to the people that vote them in
herbie said
01:35 AM Feb 22, 2013
not just happening in SA ..re the cabins moving into c/parks seeing a lot of it north of Perth WA and some parts of qld where the resorce booms are. A lot of the c/ park owners buy dongers cheap off the mining companies when they have no further use for them,give them a quick make over. I say good on them for thinking with their brain in doing this , but in the end i think there will be a lot of empty c/ parks.As you can only flood the market with this sort of thing short term.Give me a tree by a creek to park my van some where, and i am as comfortable as if i was staying in the Ritz .
Boothie said
05:00 AM Feb 22, 2013
I have been watching this thread and another one in this forum that are concerned with the same problems about free camping and I have noticed that the detractors on the other thread have not voiced the same opinions on this thread. Only an observation and a comment, like the sort of thing that you would turn up in a quality audit!
way2gokev said
05:04 AM Feb 22, 2013
G'day, I agree with most comments for and against, overall though there is alot of hype in regard to closures of free parking areas, many are only shut down because of abuse of the rules pertaining to the particular area, overstaying, rubbish, toilet abuse, flora and fauna abuse to name a few and you will find that in most camps there is a sign that say's abuse of the rules of this camp area will possibly lead to it shutting down.
Also I would think the majority of closures would be in the bigger towns and within 10 klms of a caravan park. In Tassie for instance there are many areas set aside for camping that are not well known. Many small rural town halls accept o/night stays there are now small unproductive farms that are opening paddocks for a small fee. The big noise is around areas in bigger towns and I for one wont be going near em to camp maybe for supplies and fuel if I have to.
So it really boils down to planning, planning when you travel, how far you plan to drive per day, what sites and attractions you wish to investigate, where you wish to stock up your supplies etc, etc and I think heading inland you will allways be welcome.
Where I wish to investigate and stay at a place for a few days and if no free areas available I will use the C/P mainly because of security of the van.
But I think that the best use of a couple of hours of a night is to plan ahead and look at all the options.
Have good plan and travel safe
Kev
Baz421 said
05:11 AM Feb 22, 2013
Boothie wrote:
I have been watching this thread and another one in this forum that are concerned with the same problems about free camping and I have noticed that the detractors on the other thread have not voiced the same opinions on this thread. Only an observation and a comment, like the sort of thing that you would turn up in a quality audit!
The other thread got a bit personal - at leaset this one is more moderate and dare I say it focussed.
MrH said
05:19 AM Feb 22, 2013
I agree that Caravan parks should be aimed more for the traveller & therefore limit the number of Cabins per Park, they seem to have over run all the spaces previously available. I also like to see good quality National Park campsites but the rates charged by some is up amongst the high end of Caravan parks with facilities. That isn't right. Some free camps are excellent, the only problem is that what used to be word of mouth is now publicised in books & apps so everyone is going for it. I can then understand why park owners are up in arms but there needs to be a balance - not all of us need jumping castles, swings, Games rooms & paying exhorbanant prices for unpowered sites, it just isn't fair. If rates in National Parks are reasonable I'm more than happy to pay to continue that service & upkeep of the parks. If rates were more reasonable for use in caravan parks & more stable prices across the seasons I'd be happy to stay there to, & do. Free camping is a bonus & most times that I have experienced it, it is often more pleasurable & social but unfortunately it's often ruined by the few who abuse the right. I think they are the ones more to blame for closures than the real traveller. My thoughts. Cheers H
Mike C said
05:42 AM Feb 22, 2013
Agree Kev
We will often use caravan parks if thats all there is in the area we want to visit and enjoy free camping when we can. I have often seen huge messes in otherwise pristine locations and can understand why some people want it shut down. If we could somehow ensure that these facilities where provided are looked after then things would I am sure be a lot better. I do believe there is room for the low cost council/showground parks with minimal facilities and am sadened to hear where these are closed or forced to charge similar rates to a local caravan park as they are not competitive and attract different types of travellers etc.
Planning is key
cheers
Mike
GaryKelly said
10:39 PM Feb 22, 2013
It hadn't crossed my mind that some camp sites are closed because of mistreatment and/or abuse. Same old story, yeah? A minority of morons spoiling everything for the majority of decent people.
brickies said
12:45 AM Feb 23, 2013
The free camps I have stop at have been controlled by the state government some time traveller don't realize who is providing these stop , But some rural council to provide free camps , a friend of ours worked for one such council who provided one such free camp bent of backward trying to kept the free camp open and there was no interference from any caravan park it was the Police who were sick of turning up to sort out fights between camper the council legal people were concerned of there duty of care to other campers , They were told by senior Police free camp don't work in large built up areas has a lot of homeless people set up camp and never move on it not the grey nomads that are the problem but in larger city you can't have a free camp and only let grey nomads camp but not the local . Local council get a lot of bad press from forum and lot of the time they are not responsible or have there hand tried we will get better result by being nice to them they are only to pleased to have us in there area and also caravan park owner get a lot of bad press they don't deserve , Once when I was staying in a caravan park in Blackall in western Queensland we were siting around the covered area and it was rain pretty heavy and park manger I think I better go down to the free camp and warn the campers the river may flood and if dosen't they will get bogged so he went down and told them were they could more to and be on hard standing and still safe .Lots of happy camper someone asked why would he worry he said next time they might call into our park but my park full at the moment anyway
beiffe said
04:21 PM Feb 23, 2013
Hi Brickies I think they have the same problems as us where a minority are making it hard for the majority.
We are all trying to live our life, and theirs is selling part time leases to bits of land. Problem is many of us don't want to use that bit of land and there we have a problem. If they could accept we are different to 30+ years a go and tried to cater for our needs then more would use their facilities but the Minority (which apparently control their organisation) want their model and we are suppose to accept their bad planning, so they consider or try and force us to use their sites and not allow free camping as we have setup our new homes to do, while this difference exists we will always have conflict.
It is similar to saying that we make Holden and Ford cars here in Australia so nobody can have any other make. Well ford an Holden don't make some types of tugs that many require so they buy elsewhere and our choice of places to stay reflect the same choice process.
We have limited income but if there was something we desired then we would turn up.
Do the picture theaters call for video's to be banned (they did for a while but realised their error very quickly) as videos nearly sent them to the wall but the smart ones adapted and now they are doing all right, but the modern picture theater is a lot different to when I was a boy.
AHHH Jaffers down the Isle. Now it is popcorn EVERY where, could not believe my eyes when I went to a movie a few months ago, the mess left after the show left me disgusted. Fancy going in to find that every 90 minutes or so.
Regards Brian
brickies said
09:12 PM Feb 23, 2013
Brian I don't believe caravan park owner has a whole have any problem with free camping has they haven't got enough room for the people who want to use caravan parks , the real problem is more and more camper demanding free camps in big city which will never happen , and in big city more and more caravan parks are taking away caravan sites and turning them into cabin has there is a better money earner if we owned the park we would do the same . We have use caravan parks in coastal and big city while can because I don't believe they will always be there , I am so glad I enjoy the smaller inland towns who are free or cheaper caravan parks ,But if we go to built towns for any reason we just pay the money and more on quickly also have you priced an motel or hotel room price lately get a surprise
beiffe said
03:43 PM Feb 24, 2013
I prefer to not go to large cities and usually capital cities are just some place that has to be there but not visited by me.
At the moment I am close to Melbourne but in a small village and I have been travelling to Melbourne to get equipment for BLAZEAID to be sent north for work after the floods.
I still buy my food etc here in the village and have even convinced the local IGA to get my beer in, even though I go past a few large liquor suppliers such as Dan Murpheys and woolies etc.
I did try and get a new GPS here in town and the local auto supplier told me to go somewhere else as he don't stock that sort of stuff LOL.
When I did stop in CP I was once taken to task in no uncertain terms by a CP owner when he found out that I also used free camps. He raved on for ages calling us all the words you could think off.
I booked out the next day. The park was very dirty the amenities were not maintained. It was hard to decifer the sites due to the bark and leaves all over the ground.
We all know that in all walks of live and races and religions etc there is good and bad and we tend to remember the bad and not the good.
One of my main preferences for bush camping is I take photos and I cant do that in a CP and as I travel in a bus so it is either walk or not at all.
I don't have the option to unhitch and go for a drive so I need to camp close to where I want to walk and take my photos.
I am not into the towns and city attractions and to me a town is where I get my supplies and fuel and then find somewhere to camp and relax and enjoy each day. I sit by my fire, 4.5 kilo gas bottle choofer that leaves no mark and go for my walks each morning and night. The more isolated the better as I get more access to nature and the animals and birds that live in these areas.
I also spend lots of times in farmers / friends paddocks etc as well as in other areas whilst doing voluntary work so the times I get into a CP is very rare and to be honest not in the last two years.
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Wednesday 20th of February 2013 10:33:35 PM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Wednesday 20th of February 2013 10:34:51 PM
Gordon, i agree with a lot of what you wrote , but i think you are missing the point here regarding free camping. You mention to just move on if there is no free parking to the next town or area where there is , well i ask you where dose one go to when the free parking has all dissapeared from our great country.It will not just start and stop in one particular area , it will just snow ball. If one area is successful in closing down free camping , then the next area will follow, as the attitude of the c/ park owners in that area will want the same. The few free camps that are surving in the area we are living in at the moment, is only there due to the mining industry being in this particular region.Due to the c/ parks being full with workers.I would hate to see beautiful camps as Calliope river and Banaraby closed. And that was the aim from c/ park owners here, before the oil and gas project started. But now they have gone quiet as their parks are full of us workers paying double of what they would have got from the normal paying public passing through.
I'd love to do a year long cruise on the QE, but i can't afford it. That doesn't mean they are money grubbing sods. It just means it's out of my price range so I won't do it.
It's the tone of some people's posts that crap me off. And yes, some cp's are deficient in their services. But that happens in all of hospitality. Some restaurants are great, others are rip offs. Does that mean I'm going to go and slur all restaurants and demand a boycott? No, I just take the good with the bad and am happy that I can actually afford to do things in this great country that many cannot.
There are 100's of freecamps available in australia. If not, these camp6 books and apps would not be in business listing them. It's a give and take and we can't expect to have everything just perfect.
MY point is if we do not make a stand now we will not have a choice in a few years time.
Say 1 cabin per 10 caravan sites instead of now where there are 10 cabins or more to 1 caravan site.
They are called caravan parks because they are suppose to cater for caravans and the nomadic travelers and not be a residential village or a cabin park.
Caravan parks get a government subsidy and rebates as far as I know that the others don't get so perhaps that should be brought up with government where they define what is a caravan park and what the are allowed to have / do. or perhaps they should all operate on an equal footing.
Many are full of cabins so competing with the motels and hotels and rental market and their little shop is competing with the local shop that used to be down the road. Do they sell the milk etc the same price as woolies in the town ???
I don't know any other business group that gets government help and then ask for government protection.
This stuff started in Barcaldine in QLD when a person setup a caravan park knowing that there was a free site at the show grounds and then he got the show grounds closed down to camping and the whole town went down hill and the small businesses are now screaming for the tourist to come back.
This situation then spread state wide where small towns even with no caravan park were not allowed to offer camping. Then they started getting the schools etc for allowing parking etc. Then it crept into NSW and then TAS and now there is some in VIC I believe.
I know where volunteers have been told they must book into CP and pay full fees while doing work after the floods in QLD and wonder why there is no site set up. The councils are now frightened of the CP lobby and running scared.
This problem is not just on the coast or in one area, it is spreading all across Australia and soon it will mean that many people will not be able to travel and many of the people now using free camping will be forced into the parks to live and then there will be no sites for the weekend warriors or the holiday person and besides the fees will be too high. Take the prices in the areas where the mining is starting. Care to spend a few months in one of those sites with the fees charged.
I think we should all settle down and realise our way of live is threatened and we are pretty powerless to do anything about but let the people know in the towns where you would have like to stop that you cant because of the camping restriction and then just move to somewhere you are welcome and again let them know you are there because the town allows you to camp in their shire etc and you are spending money as your thank you.
Hopefully if some towns find that their tourist trade has gone down the road then they may reconsider, but until we make the decision to either buckle or move on then it will not change.
For those that support the parks and consider them the only or preferred option then that's great, you support them and we wont encroach on your spots as long as we have ours to use. If ours dry up then you might be looking for a rest stop yourself as you won't be able to use what was once called a caravan park as it will be full and also too expensive to use.
I don't use CP but have no problem with them as they are there for the people who choose to use them but I do get upset if they stop me from enjoying my style of life because it does not suit them.
Regards
Brian
Regards
Brian
If you have a look at Camps 7 some camps were included and closed before the book was printed, so IMO we are in danger of losing free camps if we don't act.
Love your post Brian, great info I didn't know.
Gday...
Good post Brian and the Barcaldine example is a good one. However, I think you have overstated it a bit.
There are many, many free camps still in existance in QLD, FULLY supported by their council, businesses and the general community. Longreach has two good free-camps close to town and a local councillor visits the camp every couple of days to welcome campers to the area and to gain feedback.
Aramac and Muttaburra both have van parks that are $10/night pay for two and stay for three. Dunns Lake free but $5 for one of the four power poles.
Blackall, Isisford, Oma Waterhole, Jericho all not that far from Barcaldine have free camping areas - not 'free-camp/rest areas'.
In no way am I trying to detract from your advocacy but there are still 100s of small towns that I have stayed in last year and the year before that genuinely welcome the traveller and are glad for our custom.
I do think the main problem is where there are (or have been) "rest areas" for overnight (or 48 hour stops) close to town on highways that are the target. These get such a 'hammering' from careless travellers in the "season" - May to Sept - when there are 1,000s of vans on the road all squeezing into these 'rest areas', and the pressure causes bins to be overflowing and making the area look unsightly. I must admit I think the 30 or more vans I saw at the 'free-camp/rest area' at Emerald Botanical Gardens was indeed unsightly, ugly and a place I could not bring myself to stop at in the 'season'.
To be that crowded in such a small, gravel area out in the open would easily drive me to a van park - fee or no fee.
Again, I really am not trying to detract from the thrust of being aware that 'free-camp/rest areas' will continue to be under threat in many towns. I do feel this will be at the larger towns that attract the 'tourist' as distinct from genuine nomadic travellers.
cheers - John
One Caravan Park in large S.A. Town/City is now totally 100% relocatable cabins,100 +, all paying rentals and now NOT ONE caravan park overnight space is available...originally sold as a fully operational 'traditional' Caravan Park......by process of osmosis they have transformed the park into permanent accomodation with of course subsequent re-sales bringing healthy commissions to the Park owners.......I believe local Councils should be the community 'watchdog' to prevent the obvious 'change of use', however I believe many don't even realize,or worse, what is happening until its 'fait accompli'.....this "Park" would now be the envy of many 'traditional' Caravan Parks as more and more cabins/"relocatable" homettes are placed year by year on what were previously powered and unpowered sites.....
Grey Nomads are indeed being grabbed by their gonads and have every right to be indignant....as laws of supply and demand turn further in the favour of the large cartels.....less sites being competed for by increasing numbers of travellers and with larger rigs....I wonder if those who piously state NOW they are happy to'pay their way' edventually give lip when tariffs continue to rise beyond their capacity to pay.....and the Independant sites all over Australia have been attacked by stealth...which is of course part of their whole Agenda.....if you dont use it and look after it, you will surely lose it....dont be conned one thing we do have going for us at this stage of our lives is recognising BS when it is presented in its various guises and by vested interests......Hoo Roo.
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Thursday 21st of February 2013 07:53:31 AM
We free / low cost camp probably 95% of the time . Occasionally we do stay in CPs .
We will never stay in a CP in a town that has closed camping areas because of pressure from a CP owner .
That's our choice and nothing will change that decision .
John, in this case I agree with the actions of the Council in clamping down in this area and the comments of the CEO of VCPA in that particular case. As the VCPA is not the Council, and they represent caravan parks and are not there to police free camping, it is hard not to see their comments as anything other than anti free camping IMHO. These Associations in various states are lobbying the government to close free camping areas and are in general anti free camping. See this extract;
"Governments are being lobyied to close overnight stops by the caravan park industry so they can boost their income "
This is the full article;
http://www.northernherald.com.au/archive/2012/2012_08_03_2131/camping.html
However those who abuse existing free camping areas or camp overnight in areas not designated for free camping are merely providing fuel for the anti free camping brigade cause.
-- Edited by Duh on Thursday 21st of February 2013 03:49:52 PM
The argument used / started at Barcaldine is now being used in most of Australia and will spread further as we have seen in all the eastern states at the moment and it will spread to SA and the other states.
We can only hope that some of the small councils will retain their camps and these are the ones that I will use.
I have actually decided that I have no real need to go to QLD so they have lost all my custom but then I am only one so it will not worry them, but my money is given to the other states.
One of the ways they have missed out is that there was a request for me to be involved in Blazeaid in QLD, but I rejected the offer and decided to stay in VIC to help. This I have now done twice in subsequent years so not only do I not get to spend money in their towns, I am not helping after their disasters and I know I am only one of many who have made that decision. Many of these organizations rely on Nomads and if we feel we are not welcome do you consider we will travel up there at our expense and pay to help an area where we are made to feel unwelcome.
Regards
Brian
Agree sandsmere. We are in similar position,,, still lots of bush areas out there.
Another strategy we have used is to "arrive" at the next days attraction ie historical village/major attraction late in afternoon and stay overnight in the carpark to gain entry when it opens - never had a problem.
Also if in city areas you can go to industrial areas - suggest choose well lit area - and stay,,,, most have regular security patrols around to watch over you,,,,,lol.
This will not be for all and I'll probably cop some flack,,, so be it, BUT detractors please note WE TAKE ALL OUR WASTE WITH US.....
-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 21st of February 2013 08:37:58 PM
Many caravan park owners belong to associations that promote their business and are anti free camping. See this one for instance;
http://vicparks.com.au/
Gday...
This is such an emotive problem. There will always be "camping areas" throughout this land. They have been there for decades, and many of us on this forum have been using them throughout our lives. Quite probably beginning in tents, through to our modern vans and motorhomes. These camping grounds will very often be at no cost and some of them - State Forest Parks, National Parks, council allocated camping areas - will require a small fee to utilise. The Caravan Park "Industry" will not, and can not, close them.
The "free-camps" that keep getting threatened, in the majority of cases, are those that are actually 'rest areas' for restricted periods (eg 24/48 hours) to allow the traveller to rest. These 'free-camps/rest areas' are usually close to, or within, towns and on major roads. Progressive councils provide them, in many instances, to promote their town as "RV Friendly" and to generate some cashflow into their businesses and communities.
Unfortunately, there are those within these communities that do not want their "progressive" council to provide these - for a range of reasons, including their own hysteria that they are losing $$ from the travelling public staying in their establishments. Others within the community become peeved when there are 10, 20 or 30 vans/motorhomes parked in full view and the unfortunate, often unavoidable, overflowing rubbish bins; need to clean the toilets daily, maintenance of facilities etc. They see this as a cost the council should not be absorbing. You may call them 'closed minded' but, unfortunately, they have the same right to have those opinions as we have for ours.
The main areas/towns that are so active in being "anti-free-camp" are generally those within tourist areas that attract a very large travelling public and the scenario I describe in the paragraph above drives communities to not see the point of a "free handout".
I do believe that the very agressive, and active, push by 'traveller groups' (eg CMCA) only help to get the hackles up of those people who are already negative to 'free-campers' in 'rest areas'. So there has devloped a two-sided stand-off pressuring councils. At the end of the day, (OH how I hate that phrase !) they are all politicans and they will usually side with those who are within their territory and cast a vote at the always upcoming council elections.
I visited the website Vic has posted above. I could not find very much that was "anti-free-camping" on the site. However, I copy the following from that site -
Elizabeth White, CEO of Victorian Caravan Parks Association.
We welcome tourists to our great city, but we expect them to pay their way and to respect our local laws. No-one has the right to a free holiday campsite, and no-one has the right to set up camp where it causes inconvenience and cost to others she said.
She was commenting on the recent move by Melbourne City Council moving the backpackers in campervans illegally parked near the Yarra. I must admit I agree with her comment generally, and also that no-one has the right to a free holiday campsite.
As I have already stated, camping in 'rest areas' will continue to remain an emotive problem - perhaps with little chance of a mutually acceptable resolution.
From my perspective, I will continue to travel this wide, brown, incredible land utilising as many camping grounds as I can find and spend my time at those that are attractive. If a fee is required to stay at such places, so be it. Should I simply need to sleep overnight due to a late stop during a journey, then I will prop wherever my rig will fit. Other than that, I will not camp in designated 'rest areas' near towns.
Cheers - John
not just happening in SA ..re the cabins moving into c/parks seeing a lot of it north of Perth WA and some parts of qld where the resorce booms are. A lot of the c/ park owners buy dongers cheap off the mining companies when they have no further use for them,give them a quick make over. I say good on them for thinking with their brain in doing this , but in the end i think there will be a lot of empty c/ parks.As you can only flood the market with this sort of thing short term.Give me a tree by a creek to park my van some where, and i am as comfortable as if i was staying in the Ritz .
I have been watching this thread and another one in this forum that are concerned with the same problems about free camping and I have noticed that the detractors on the other thread have not voiced the same opinions on this thread. Only an observation and a comment, like the sort of thing that you would turn up in a quality audit!
G'day, I agree with most comments for and against, overall though there is alot of hype in regard to closures of free parking areas, many are only shut down because of abuse of the rules pertaining to the particular area, overstaying, rubbish, toilet abuse, flora and fauna abuse to name a few and you will find that in most camps there is a sign that say's abuse of the rules of this camp area will possibly lead to it shutting down.
Also I would think the majority of closures would be in the bigger towns and within 10 klms of a caravan park. In Tassie for instance there are many areas set aside for camping that are not well known. Many small rural town halls accept o/night stays there are now small unproductive farms that are opening paddocks for a small fee. The big noise is around areas in bigger towns and I for one wont be going near em to camp maybe for supplies and fuel if I have to.
So it really boils down to planning, planning when you travel, how far you plan to drive per day, what sites and attractions you wish to investigate, where you wish to stock up your supplies etc, etc and I think heading inland you will allways be welcome.
Where I wish to investigate and stay at a place for a few days and if no free areas available I will use the C/P mainly because of security of the van.
But I think that the best use of a couple of hours of a night is to plan ahead and look at all the options.
Have good plan and travel safe
Kev
The other thread got a bit personal - at leaset this one is more moderate and dare I say it focussed.
I also like to see good quality National Park campsites but the rates charged by some is up amongst the high end of Caravan parks with facilities. That isn't right.
Some free camps are excellent, the only problem is that what used to be word of mouth is now publicised in books & apps so everyone is going for it.
I can then understand why park owners are up in arms but there needs to be a balance - not all of us need jumping castles, swings, Games rooms & paying exhorbanant prices for unpowered sites, it just isn't fair.
If rates in National Parks are reasonable I'm more than happy to pay to continue that service & upkeep of the parks.
If rates were more reasonable for use in caravan parks & more stable prices across the seasons I'd be happy to stay there to, & do.
Free camping is a bonus & most times that I have experienced it, it is often more pleasurable & social but unfortunately it's often ruined by the few who abuse the right. I think they are the ones more to blame for closures than the real traveller.
My thoughts.
Cheers
H
We will often use caravan parks if thats all there is in the area we want to visit and enjoy free camping when we can.
I have often seen huge messes in otherwise pristine locations and can understand why some people want it shut down. If we could somehow ensure that these facilities where provided are looked after then things would I am sure be a lot better.
I do believe there is room for the low cost council/showground parks with minimal facilities and am sadened to hear where these are closed or forced to charge similar rates to a local caravan park as they are not competitive and attract different types of travellers etc.
Planning is key
cheers
Mike
We are all trying to live our life, and theirs is selling part time leases to bits of land. Problem is many of us don't want to use that bit of land and there we have a problem. If they could accept we are different to 30+ years a go and tried to cater for our needs then more would use their facilities but the Minority (which apparently control their organisation) want their model and we are suppose to accept their bad planning, so they consider or try and force us to use their sites and not allow free camping as we have setup our new homes to do, while this difference exists we will always have conflict.
It is similar to saying that we make Holden and Ford cars here in Australia so nobody can have any other make. Well ford an Holden don't make some types of tugs that many require so they buy elsewhere and our choice of places to stay reflect the same choice process.
We have limited income but if there was something we desired then we would turn up.
Do the picture theaters call for video's to be banned (they did for a while but realised their error very quickly) as videos nearly sent them to the wall but the smart ones adapted and now they are doing all right, but the modern picture theater is a lot different to when I was a boy.
AHHH Jaffers down the Isle. Now it is popcorn EVERY where, could not believe my eyes when I went to a movie a few months ago, the mess left after the show left me disgusted. Fancy going in to find that every 90 minutes or so.
Regards
Brian
At the moment I am close to Melbourne but in a small village and I have been travelling to Melbourne to get equipment for BLAZEAID to be sent north for work after the floods.
I still buy my food etc here in the village and have even convinced the local IGA to get my beer in, even though I go past a few large liquor suppliers such as Dan Murpheys and woolies etc.
I did try and get a new GPS here in town and the local auto supplier told me to go somewhere else as he don't stock that sort of stuff LOL.
When I did stop in CP I was once taken to task in no uncertain terms by a CP owner when he found out that I also used free camps. He raved on for ages calling us all the words you could think off.
I booked out the next day. The park was very dirty the amenities were not maintained. It was hard to decifer the sites due to the bark and leaves all over the ground.
We all know that in all walks of live and races and religions etc there is good and bad and we tend to remember the bad and not the good.
One of my main preferences for bush camping is I take photos and I cant do that in a CP and as I travel in a bus so it is either walk or not at all.
I don't have the option to unhitch and go for a drive so I need to camp close to where I want to walk and take my photos.
I am not into the towns and city attractions and to me a town is where I get my supplies and fuel and then find somewhere to camp and relax and enjoy each day. I sit by my fire, 4.5 kilo gas bottle choofer that leaves no mark and go for my walks each morning and night. The more isolated the better as I get more access to nature and the animals and birds that live in these areas.
I also spend lots of times in farmers / friends paddocks etc as well as in other areas whilst doing voluntary work so the times I get into a CP is very rare and to be honest not in the last two years.
Regards
Brian