5th gear. Yes this has been discussed many times, now I know why
Comebak-Wilson said
08:30 PM Feb 25, 2013
Had my Mazda Bravo 4x4 2.5 ltr turbo diesel for 8 years now and rarely used 5th gear. Yesterday I was towing my 4.2 mtr tinny home from Stansbury to Adelaide (SA). (200 kms). Because a mate was driving behind I engaged 5th so we could get back quicker. While driving I had to changed back to 4th, then back to 5th. Then 5th would NOT hold in. Stopped. Then moved back on the road. I waved mate to go on home. Slowly drove along. THEN, 1st went. THEN 2nd went. THEN 3rd went. (Where I dont know) (laughs) Anyway after much trouble and considerable time I got home. Quote to exchange gearbox with 12 months or 20,000 kms $4000.00. The car has only done 134000 kms over this period. Yes I have been 4 wheel driving so I am partly to blame because as I have learnt, Mazda Bravos are more a bitumen 4x4 car than an off road job. In the time and of course after the warranty had run out:... Two pressure plates went, again I dont know where? The clutch plates were like new. After returning from the Kimberly's the diff center went. Then the right read axle. My mind 2 but after considerable looking around; there it was under the bed. NO, I am not a rough driver. The Bravo or at least "mine" (Built on a Friday; finished on Monday)... ....Is a poor quality vehicle. Send you donations 2.... cash preferred.. Laughs.
-- Edited by Comebak-Wilson on Monday 25th of February 2013 08:31:40 PM
-- Edited by Comebak-Wilson on Monday 25th of February 2013 08:32:57 PM
redtails said
07:31 AM Feb 26, 2013
bad luck with the tug.... suggest toyota or nissan.... always use overdrive 5th and never any problems good luck!!
sandsmere said
01:07 PM Feb 26, 2013
Sad story CW .
Unfortunately it's a story I've heard plenty of times before .
herbie said
01:14 PM Feb 26, 2013
I never use 5th gear in my Toyota Crusier to tow my van and touch wood never had a problem. Brought it new in Kal WA and the machanic told me to not use it .So wondering who is right and who is wrong regarding all this .I do a lot of ks towing also.
Regards Herbie
-- Edited by herbie on Tuesday 26th of February 2013 01:15:53 PM
bill12 said
03:02 PM Feb 26, 2013
I have a 98 courier diesel and have had no trouble driving it in 5th gear, but will keep my eye on it. Have done some towing, nothing too big, and it did,nt seem to make any difference.Maybe you bought a lemon, I hate to say.Sorry to hear about it. Hope you fix it soon. Bill
GaryKelly said
04:19 PM Feb 26, 2013
I have a 94 Courier (same as Bravo) and the box seems okay. It's done about 164,000kms. One thing I've noticed is that changing up to 5th doesn't seem to affect the rpm... it sounds the same in 5th as it does in 4th. Weird. Mine's not 4WD though - 2WD. $4000 for a new gearbox sounds over the top. I bought my whole Courier for $2500. Anyway, my condolences for your troubles. Things like that are enough to drive a man to drink.
gst said
06:18 PM Feb 26, 2013
I always tow my 20" Windsor royal with my patrol in 5th gear when I can have had no worries.
Cupie said
07:38 PM Feb 26, 2013
When I got my 1996 GQ in 1998, the family mechanic advised me to not use 5th for towing.
I rang a Nissan Qld Service Manager, who agreed.
When I was in Darwin I had a service done by a mechanic near Hidden Valley & mentioned this advice to him. He also agreed & said that he got regular work from fixing damaged gear boxes where people towed large vans in 5th. He showed me what looked like a lay shaft that was stripped .. from one of these vehicles. He suggested that there was a fix that involved fitting a second 'drive cog' to prevent the 'lay shaft' from stripping.
ps. The 'Lay shaft' & 'drive cog' are my descriptions of the gear box parts, can't remember what he called them.
Maybe later model Patrols have fixed this problem
In any case I rarely use 5th when towing. Still going well after 100,000 km of 21'6" Jayco towing out of a total of 260,000 km. I did a few fuel consumption trials & found no savings using 5th.
Delta18 said
07:45 PM Feb 26, 2013
I would say the box was on the way out anyway, the fact the other gears "went" indicates that.
I tow my 2T Paramount in 5th on the flats with my Triton without problem. Fuel consumption at 100kmh (by gps) in 5th is better that 4th at 80kmh.
Comebak-Wilson said
11:04 PM Feb 26, 2013
New repair quote: $2,710.00, what a few phone calls can do; saving $1290.00. I was a bit depressed after hearing the $4K quote but thankfully I'm back on track to 97% depressed. lol
Gerty Dancer said
11:06 PM Feb 26, 2013
Love your Avatar CW... in this case, its entirely appropriate!!
Comebak-Wilson said
11:10 PM Feb 26, 2013
laughs... That bottle was very nice 2.
GaryKelly said
02:38 AM Feb 27, 2013
I wonder if not using 5th applies to motorhomes and slide-on campers... or only to vehicles towing a caravan. Anyway, if I'm the least bit concerned that the engine is laboring in any gear, I always change down. No point in tempting fate.
Comebak-Wilson said
02:59 AM Feb 27, 2013
A gearbox specialist told me not to use 5th unless.. Not towing anything. And doing at least 80 kms before engaging 5th when not towing.
I think my problems arose back when I did some 4wd-ing in sand, when the vehicle dug in quickly and instantly stalled the engine. I remember thinking about the gearbox then. This happened using 1st and 2nd. The bravo has a small power plant, not like one of the BIG BOY Toyota's or such who have the torque. What I have found is, there are experts and there are others; I'm another-s..
justcruisin01 said
04:18 AM Feb 27, 2013
Comebak-Wilson wrote:
New repair quote: $2,710.00, what a few phone calls can do; saving $1290.00. I was a bit depressed after hearing the $4K quote but thankfully I'm back on track to 97% depressed. lol
Give Don Kyatt spares a call for quote on exchange.
Sydney, 0296746911. found the very good when I was chasing a diff centre.
JC.
bill12 said
01:44 PM Feb 27, 2013
I have the same slide on as Gary, and have never had any trouble with 5th gear in my courier diesel.Mind you, 4th and 5th are very close and 65kws is not a lot of power, anyway. Just done 15000klms with no trouble.Go to ebay. There are bravo g/boxs for $1250 upwards.Bill
-- Edited by bill12 on Wednesday 27th of February 2013 01:47:15 PM
way2gokev said
07:40 PM Feb 28, 2013
G'day Like others on this forum I never use 5th gear for towing anything over a ton, You have to remember that your tow vehicle is around 2.5 t or heavier, then you add a caravan around 2 ton or heavier, it means you are pulling around 5 ton in a gear that is not designed to take that amount of weight. You have to also remember that 5th gear is like an overdrive gear in that in the gearbox the gears are in line, which means no gearing power to help compensate for the load, also you have no gearing down power in 5th when you need to slow down. All up with the Patrol and van just short of 6 ton so no I never use 5th gear for the reasons stated above. Campervans etc can use 5th gear when ever they are able, just remember to change down at 80klms, even auto's can use their gears to slow down and reduce brake wear, How many times do you follow vehicles down hill that ride their brakes all the way, when they can reduce their speed at let the motor slow the vehicle down by changing down in gears.
Being ex truckie I know my gears, changed them thousands of times.
cheers
Kev
Gerty Dancer said
08:05 PM Feb 28, 2013
way2gokev wrote:
even auto's can use their gears to slow down and reduce brake wear, How many times do you follow vehicles down hill that ride their brakes all the way, when they can reduce their speed at let the motor slow the vehicle down by changing down in gears.
Being ex truckie I know my gears, changed them thousands of times.
cheers
Kev
G'day Kev... wondering about downhills, we use the gears to help with braking, but that doesnt brake the caravan... would you suggest operating the caravan brake manually?
Comebak-Wilson said
08:20 PM Feb 28, 2013
Thank you all for the advice and jocularity. Soon as the jobs done I'm going to pack away the ping pong balls and Ms Ch ong then verooooom somewhere; maybe. Depression is a wonderful thing, it slows you down without the help of a gearbox or brakes..
way2gokev said
10:03 PM Feb 28, 2013
Gerty Dancer wrote:
way2gokev wrote:
even auto's can use their gears to slow down and reduce brake wear, How many times do you follow vehicles down hill that ride their brakes all the way, when they can reduce their speed at let the motor slow the vehicle down by changing down in gears.
Being ex truckie I know my gears, changed them thousands of times.
cheers
Kev
G'day Kev... wondering about downhills, we use the gears to help with braking, but that doesnt brake the caravan... would you suggest operating the caravan brake manually?
Yes Gerty for sure, if your breaking control is set up properly your caravan brakes should automatically engage a split second before your tow vehicle brakes. For sure use manual control down hill, especially in wet conditions, just dont use it to hard, you will feel the caravan slightly holding, dont keep it on , on a long downhill overwise you might overheat the brakes on your van. If you find that you have to on off manual frequently then you are in to high a gear, change down, let the motor hold you back.
Allways engage a lower gear on the top of a hill, not half way down the hill or when your road speed is to high. Old rule of the road you should allways come down the hill using the same gear you go up the hill.
Hope this helps
cheers
Kev
PS you should regularly check the set up on your brake controller, dont rely on it staying at the same setting. By the sound of your post you engage your vehicle brakes, but your not sure if the caravan brakes are holding, They should hold at the same time as you apply your vehicle brakes, engaging a split second before.
If you can not feel the caravan pulling you back, then your adjustment is not set up or your caravan brakes are worn or need adjusting.
To find out if your caravan brakes are working, find a flat bit of road with no traffic get your car and van up to about 25klms an hour and apply the manual controller, if your caravan brakes are working they should slow you down or pull you up, if they pull you up to severe adjust the pressure on the controller, if nothing happens then you need to have a check up.
Cheers
Kev
-- Edited by way2gokev on Thursday 28th of February 2013 10:16:18 PM
Yesterday I was towing my 4.2 mtr tinny home from Stansbury to Adelaide (SA). (200 kms).
Because a mate was driving behind I engaged 5th so we could get back quicker.
While driving I had to changed back to 4th, then back to 5th.
Then 5th would NOT hold in.
Stopped.
Then moved back on the road.
I waved mate to go on home.
Slowly drove along.
THEN, 1st went.
THEN 2nd went.
THEN 3rd went.
(Where I dont know) (laughs)
Anyway after much trouble and considerable time I got home.
Quote to exchange gearbox with 12 months or 20,000 kms $4000.00.
The car has only done 134000 kms over this period.
Yes I have been 4 wheel driving so I am partly to blame because as I have learnt, Mazda Bravos are more a bitumen 4x4 car than an off road job.
In the time and of course after the warranty had run out:...
Two pressure plates went, again I dont know where? The clutch plates were like new.
After returning from the Kimberly's the diff center went.
Then the right read axle.
My mind 2 but after considerable looking around; there it was under the bed.
NO, I am not a rough driver.
The Bravo or at least "mine" (Built on a Friday; finished on Monday)...
....Is a poor quality vehicle.
Send you donations 2.... cash preferred.. Laughs.
-- Edited by Comebak-Wilson on Monday 25th of February 2013 08:31:40 PM
-- Edited by Comebak-Wilson on Monday 25th of February 2013 08:32:57 PM
Sad story CW .
Unfortunately it's a story I've heard plenty of times before .
I never use 5th gear in my Toyota Crusier to tow my van and touch wood never had a problem. Brought it new in Kal WA and the machanic told me to not use it .So wondering who is right and who is wrong regarding all this .I do a lot of ks towing also.
Regards Herbie
-- Edited by herbie on Tuesday 26th of February 2013 01:15:53 PM
I always tow my 20" Windsor royal with my patrol in 5th gear when I can have had no worries.
When I got my 1996 GQ in 1998, the family mechanic advised me to not use 5th for towing.
I rang a Nissan Qld Service Manager, who agreed.
When I was in Darwin I had a service done by a mechanic near Hidden Valley & mentioned this advice to him. He also agreed & said that he got regular work from fixing damaged gear boxes where people towed large vans in 5th. He showed me what looked like a lay shaft that was stripped .. from one of these vehicles. He suggested that there was a fix that involved fitting a second 'drive cog' to prevent the 'lay shaft' from stripping.
ps. The 'Lay shaft' & 'drive cog' are my descriptions of the gear box parts, can't remember what he called them.
Maybe later model Patrols have fixed this problem
In any case I rarely use 5th when towing. Still going well after 100,000 km of 21'6" Jayco towing out of a total of 260,000 km. I did a few fuel consumption trials & found no savings using 5th.
I would say the box was on the way out anyway, the fact the other gears "went" indicates that.
I tow my 2T Paramount in 5th on the flats with my Triton without problem. Fuel consumption at 100kmh (by gps) in 5th is better that 4th at 80kmh.
I was a bit depressed after hearing the $4K quote but thankfully I'm back on track to 97% depressed. lol
That bottle was very nice 2.
Not towing anything.
And doing at least 80 kms before engaging 5th when not towing.
I think my problems arose back when I did some 4wd-ing in sand, when the vehicle dug in quickly and instantly stalled the engine.
I remember thinking about the gearbox then.
This happened using 1st and 2nd.
The bravo has a small power plant, not like one of the BIG BOY Toyota's or such who have the torque.
What I have found is, there are experts and there are others; I'm another-s..
Give Don Kyatt spares a call for quote on exchange.
Sydney, 0296746911. found the very good when I was chasing a diff centre.
JC.
I have the same slide on as Gary, and have never had any trouble with 5th gear in my courier diesel.Mind you, 4th and 5th are very close and 65kws is not a lot of power, anyway. Just done 15000klms with no trouble.Go to ebay. There are bravo g/boxs for $1250 upwards.Bill
-- Edited by bill12 on Wednesday 27th of February 2013 01:47:15 PM
G'day Like others on this forum I never use 5th gear for towing anything over a ton, You have to remember that your tow vehicle is around 2.5 t or heavier, then you add a caravan around 2 ton or heavier, it means you are pulling around 5 ton in a gear that is not designed to take that amount of weight. You have to also remember that 5th gear is like an overdrive gear in that in the gearbox the gears are in line, which means no gearing power to help compensate for the load, also you have no gearing down power in 5th when you need to slow down. All up with the Patrol and van just short of 6 ton so no I never use 5th gear for the reasons stated above. Campervans etc can use 5th gear when ever they are able, just remember to change down at 80klms, even auto's can use their gears to slow down and reduce brake wear, How many times do you follow vehicles down hill that ride their brakes all the way, when they can reduce their speed at let the motor slow the vehicle down by changing down in gears.
Being ex truckie I know my gears, changed them thousands of times.
cheers
Kev
G'day Kev... wondering about downhills, we use the gears to help with braking, but that doesnt brake the caravan... would you suggest operating the caravan brake manually?
Soon as the jobs done I'm going to pack away the ping pong balls and Ms Ch ong then verooooom somewhere; maybe.
Depression is a wonderful thing, it slows you down without the help of a gearbox or brakes..
Yes Gerty for sure, if your breaking control is set up properly your caravan brakes should automatically engage a split second before your tow vehicle brakes. For sure use manual control down hill, especially in wet conditions, just dont use it to hard, you will feel the caravan slightly holding, dont keep it on , on a long downhill overwise you might overheat the brakes on your van. If you find that you have to on off manual frequently then you are in to high a gear, change down, let the motor hold you back.
Allways engage a lower gear on the top of a hill, not half way down the hill or when your road speed is to high. Old rule of the road you should allways come down the hill using the same gear you go up the hill.
Hope this helps
cheers
Kev
PS you should regularly check the set up on your brake controller, dont rely on it staying at the same setting. By the sound of your post you engage your vehicle brakes, but your not sure if the caravan brakes are holding, They should hold at the same time as you apply your vehicle brakes, engaging a split second before.
If you can not feel the caravan pulling you back, then your adjustment is not set up or your caravan brakes are worn or need adjusting.
To find out if your caravan brakes are working, find a flat bit of road with no traffic get your car and van up to about 25klms an hour and apply the manual controller, if your caravan brakes are working they should slow you down or pull you up, if they pull you up to severe adjust the pressure on the controller, if nothing happens then you need to have a check up.
Cheers
Kev
-- Edited by way2gokev on Thursday 28th of February 2013 10:16:18 PM