Could some body please define "self contained " ( re article The Grey Nomads Feb 26 )does this mean that ALL waste water is to be stored on board the vehicle/van ie: dish water, shower water and portable dunny waste. Seems that some free camps will only allow motor homes to camp at particular locations.
Abes n Kaz
elliemike said
02:38 AM Mar 3, 2013
abes wrote:
G'day
Could some body please define "self contained " ( re article The Grey Nomads Feb 26 )does this mean that ALL waste water is to be stored on board the vehicle/van ie: dish water, shower water and portable dunny waste. Seems that some free camps will only allow motor homes to camp at particular locations.
Abes n Kaz
Seems you have right there. You need to have means to store All your waste onboard the rig. And take it away with you.
Regards
Mike
gordon_adl said
04:07 AM Mar 3, 2013
Only seems fair to me. Surely the councils that do provide free camping wouldn't want you disposing your waste on the grounds. With that said, my council, whilst they do provide freecamps, there isn't any disposal on sites. However only a short 1.5K ride away is free disposal.
neilnruth said
04:23 AM Mar 3, 2013
Can't we even water their trees with washing up water?
rockylizard said
04:39 AM Mar 3, 2013
neilnruth wrote:
Can't we even water their trees with washing up water?
Gday...
It is always one of the things that constantly amuses and confuses me in my travels. Whether at CP, 'free' camp, camping ground, in the bush, national park etc there are always opposing opinions by those that are in authority.
Some literally insist you put your grey water on their grass/trees/gardens ... through to others who won't let you sneeze on the ground.
I thought that it was not possible now to buy any detergents/soaps/shampoos etc that are 'environmentally naughty' - therefore grey water should be safe for the environment.
Many councils promote those 'grey water diverters' for their ratepayers so their washing machine water etc is directed to either a holding tank on the property or directly to lawns/gardens.
Welcome to our regulated society
Cheers - John
way2gokev said
05:16 AM Mar 3, 2013
G'day What next!!!!! soon they will regulate that farmers put buckets under their livestock to catch all the waste. Its a nightmare there is nothing wrong in putting grey water in the bush as long as you are using enviro friendly detergents etc and as long as you are not putting into a water storage or river, what is the harm???
I would think that being self contained means that you can live on the side of the road if need be, the toilet would be the main concern but even that will not harm the enviroment if buried. Dont they know that there is a world wide shortage of phosphoris, they now have plants that treat sewage to get the phosphoris out to use, hav'nt they heard of peeing on the lemon tree to get the best fruit, where will it end.
Case of catch me if you can and prove it.
Cheers
Kev
Happywanderer said
05:23 AM Mar 3, 2013
I thought self contained meant Own toilet, own shower, own kitchen, power, water etc. I have seen self contianed vans with their grey water pipe attached and lying a bit further away to drain.
gordon_adl said
05:59 AM Mar 3, 2013
way2gokev wrote:
the toilet would be the main concern but even that will not harm the enviroment if buried.
You're serious? So you'll come to my town, park your van, dig up the fresh green grass that we provide you to free camp on, and bury your poo in what is basically my back yard? All whist inviting you to stay for free? I can just see it now, a gn complaining because we offer free camping but then whinging because the place smells like sh*t and complaining that the campground is all dug up instead of fresh green grass.
Case of catch me if you can and prove it.
What a horribly sad way to live life. As long as you get what you want in life stuff everyone else. Selfishness at it's peak performance there.
Cheers
Kev
Duh said
07:06 AM Mar 3, 2013
This is the CMCA Info on Leave No Trace and Self Contained Vehicle definition;
It all gets down to the individual as in all aspects of our lives....some folk are filthy at home and their surrounds whilst others are house proud....some folk are filthy when travelling whilst others do the 'right & responsible' thing...it is not a question of economics....some folk can live comfortably on little income whilst others struggle on a a substantial income....even with basic caravans some folk will have no problem with not leaving their footprint when they camp whilst even with more elaborate rigs some folk can leave their camping foorprint everywhere...the question IMO is really do you shut down everything to cater for the ignorant/dirty minority or will self regulation ever really work?.....its up to us the individual.....its not about laws.....criminals dont obey laws thats why they are criminals....likewise filthy habits will never be overcome by even the most zealous laws and enforcement....it almost become a challenge to those so inclined to live that way..... I suggest this is another thread likely to go no where and end in much angst, simply because its up to us as individuals to do the ""right and responsible" thing when we are not being scrutinised by authority..... Isn't this typical of all things in Australian life at present not just about 'Independent Camping'......Caravan Parks of course have more than a vested interest in making sure all laws guarantee travelling folk are forced to end up in their Parks irrespective of how much or how little value for money they offer.....and so ad infinitum...so see you out there in the bush doing the responsible thing....as the majority of all all do, and after a lifetime of responsible 'home' living' and raising family's, I dont give one bit of nanny goat poop what vested interests have to say or do..or petty illogical local laws...we all live in Australia not in someones precious plittle precinct..beside even if we get 'life' behind bars for many of us it won't be all that long...Lol......and they tell me even sex is perhaps more frequent behind 'bars'....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 10:27:30 AM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 10:28:30 AM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 10:29:53 AM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 10:31:36 AM
Gerty Dancer said
05:31 PM Mar 3, 2013
The problem with grey water , Waytogokev, is that not all people use enviro-friendly detergents, not all keep a bucket under their drainpipe (or hose) to make sure it goes under bushes. We have seen people draining their waste directly ino rivers, we have arrived at campsites to find big muddy filthy patches where somebody has drained their grey water. Add to that the smell of human urine, often accompanied by unburied faeces and toilet paper blowing in the wind, some campsites are so awful you wouldnt/couldnt even park there for 20minutes just to have a cuppa.
It is not alright to do this! No wonder so many free-camps get closed down!
eureka said
05:32 PM Mar 3, 2013
This is the CMCA Info on Leave No Trace and Self Contained Vehicle definition;
Well this is drifting away from the OP, and heading towards the thread being closed.
Some camp areas have been declared that only self-contained units may use the area. To comply one must contain all waste, i.e. dish washing water, shower water, washing machine water, plus ones usual hard rubbish and toilet contents, and remove this from the campsite and dispose of appropriately elsewhere.
Thats it, no watering of trees/bushes/grass/whatever or littering, how hard is that to understand. The Campground authority have their reasons, possibly because the minority have stuffed it up for the majority or it is a sensitive area eg beside a town water supply.
If one is unable to meet self containment criteria, then move on to another campsite where self-containment does not apply and feel free to water the trees/bushes/grass/whatever.
-- Edited by Ron and Shirley on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 07:02:00 PM
Duh said
06:42 PM Mar 3, 2013
Nicely written GDN
Ron and Shirley said
08:30 PM Mar 3, 2013
Happywanderer wrote:
I thought self contained meant Own toilet, own shower, own kitchen, power, water etc. I have seen self contianed vans with their grey water pipe attached and lying a bit further away to drain.
HW you are confused between self-sufficient and self-contained.
As others have said self-contained means that you can retain all your waste and take it away with you. More and more campsites are becoming for self-contained units only.
Like Gerty Dancer, a number of times we have pulled into a campsite that appears OK only to find it is a virtual smelly swamp due to previous campers discharging their waste/shower water from being too lazy to either empty the over following bucket elsewhere, or shift the discharge pipe a few times so as not to saturate the one spot.
The Australian Caravan Club http://tinyurl.com/bb48kktgives a brief outline of their self-containment scheme.
way2gokev said
11:47 PM Mar 3, 2013
gordon_adl wrote:
way2gokev wrote:
the toilet would be the main concern but even that will not harm the enviroment if buried.
You're serious? So you'll come to my town, park your van, dig up the fresh green grass that we provide you to free camp on, and bury your poo in what is basically my back yard? All whist inviting you to stay for free? I can just see it now, a gn complaining because we offer free camping but then whinging because the place smells like sh*t and complaining that the campground is all dug up instead of fresh green grass.
Case of catch me if you can and prove it.
What a horribly sad way to live life. As long as you get what you want in life stuff everyone else. Selfishness at it's peak performance there.
Cheers
Kev
G'day Gordon, I take what you say with a grain of salt. Nowhere in my post did I say that I would let waste free flow out of van at a free camp, I will do as I allways have put it in a dump dissposable where possible, if not I will bury it in an out of way place, definatly not in the free park area. Waste water I will collect in a bucket and put it around trees away from camp area as I have allways done. So dont get your nickers in a knot and infere that I am not a resposible person.
A light hearted banter about regulations turns into personnel attack with out any substance. Do you use the drop toilets?? well that is just another way of burying a great amount of waste. No different than me burying my waste, infact my way is more environmentally friendly.
You're last statement is typical of the dogooders in this world who jump to conclusion without digesting the facts creating a perseption that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
I will take your statement onboard and remember to post just facts not light hearted banter in case it I deemed to be guilty of something that was not implied.
Cheers and have a good day
Kev
gordon_adl said
11:58 PM Mar 3, 2013
It's good to read that you'll take on board my posts and others advice and become a responsible gn
Pehaps I need to keep posting to straighten out a few other strays
way2gokev wrote:
I will take your statement onboard...
Kev
jetj said
12:15 AM Mar 4, 2013
rockylizard wrote:
neilnruth wrote:
Can't we even water their trees with washing up water?
Gday...
It is always one of the things that constantly amuses and confuses me in my travels. Whether at CP, 'free' camp, camping ground, in the bush, national park etc there are always opposing opinions by those that are in authority.
Some literally insist you put your grey water on their grass/trees/gardens ... through to others who won't let you sneeze on the ground.
I thought that it was not possible now to buy any detergents/soaps/shampoos etc that are 'environmentally naughty' - therefore grey water should be safe for the environment.
Many councils promote those 'grey water diverters' for their ratepayers so their washing machine water etc is directed to either a holding tank on the property or directly to lawns/gardens.
Welcome to our regulated society
Cheers - John
Good post John, I thought it was good to water a tree.
way2gokev said
12:20 AM Mar 4, 2013
gordon_adl wrote:
It's good to read that you'll take on board my posts and others advice and become a responsible gn
Pehaps I need to keep posting to straighten out a few other strays
way2gokev wrote:
I will take your statement onboard...
Kev
Well at least you proved my point by nit picking my post to infer your own agenda.
I have travelled Australia over many years and seen the disgusting mess that others leave behind and done my fair share of clean ups and I wont be told by someone who screws a post that I am not resposible.
And yea I will take your statement onboard and only post factual statements.
Golddetectornomad said
01:05 AM Mar 4, 2013
....and now for the angst and the pious..mixed perhaps with a humourous interlude......at least I know when I'm making progress...when every mistake I make is a new one....we'll never lead the band if we can't face the music....I pay all my bills with a smile, but invariably they all want money...when I was a Banker I once had a lady customer who had very little collateral however she asked me if I would care to accept one of her promiscuity notes..and yes she did receive plenty of interest....Hoo Roo
abes said
12:14 AM Mar 7, 2013
Thanks everybody , I now have my answer, but surely stirred up a hornets nest which was not my intention. Regards Abes n Kaz
G'day
Could some body please define "self contained " ( re article The Grey Nomads Feb 26 )does this mean that ALL waste water is to be stored on board the vehicle/van ie: dish water, shower water and portable dunny waste. Seems that some free camps will only allow motor homes to camp at particular locations.
Abes n Kaz
Seems you have right there. You need to have means to store All your waste onboard the rig. And take it away with you.
Regards
Mike
Gday...
It is always one of the things that constantly amuses and confuses me in my travels. Whether at CP, 'free' camp, camping ground, in the bush, national park etc there are always opposing opinions by those that are in authority.
Some literally insist you put your grey water on their grass/trees/gardens ... through to others who won't let you sneeze on the ground.
I thought that it was not possible now to buy any detergents/soaps/shampoos etc that are 'environmentally naughty' - therefore grey water should be safe for the environment.
Many councils promote those 'grey water diverters' for their ratepayers so their washing machine water etc is directed to either a holding tank on the property or directly to lawns/gardens.
Welcome to our regulated society
Cheers - John
G'day What next!!!!! soon they will regulate that farmers put buckets under their livestock to catch all the waste. Its a nightmare there is nothing wrong in putting grey water in the bush as long as you are using enviro friendly detergents etc and as long as you are not putting into a water storage or river, what is the harm???
I would think that being self contained means that you can live on the side of the road if need be, the toilet would be the main concern but even that will not harm the enviroment if buried. Dont they know that there is a world wide shortage of phosphoris, they now have plants that treat sewage to get the phosphoris out to use, hav'nt they heard of peeing on the lemon tree to get the best fruit, where will it end.
Case of catch me if you can and prove it.
Cheers
Kev
This is the CMCA Info on Leave No Trace and Self Contained Vehicle definition;
http://www.cmca.net.au/pages/motorhoming_information/cmca_schemes/LeaveNoTrace.php
It all gets down to the individual as in all aspects of our lives....some folk are filthy at home and their surrounds whilst others are house proud....some folk are filthy when travelling whilst others do the 'right & responsible' thing...it is not a question of economics....some folk can live comfortably on little income whilst others struggle on a a substantial income....even with basic caravans some folk will have no problem with not leaving their footprint when they camp whilst even with more elaborate rigs some folk can leave their camping foorprint everywhere...the question IMO is really do you shut down everything to cater for the ignorant/dirty minority or will self regulation ever really work?.....its up to us the individual.....its not about laws.....criminals dont obey laws thats why they are criminals....likewise filthy habits will never be overcome by even the most zealous laws and enforcement....it almost become a challenge to those so inclined to live that way.....
I suggest this is another thread likely to go no where and end in much angst, simply because its up to us as individuals to do the ""right and responsible" thing when we are not being scrutinised by authority.....
Isn't this typical of all things in Australian life at present not just about 'Independent Camping'......Caravan Parks of course have more than a vested interest in making sure all laws guarantee travelling folk are forced to end up in their Parks irrespective of how much or how little value for money they offer.....and so ad infinitum...so see you out there in the bush doing the responsible thing....as the majority of all all do, and after a lifetime of responsible 'home' living' and raising family's, I dont give one bit of nanny goat poop what vested interests have to say or do..or petty illogical local laws...we all live in Australia not in someones precious plittle precinct..beside even if we get 'life' behind bars for many of us it won't be all that long...Lol......and they tell me even sex is perhaps more frequent behind 'bars'....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 10:27:30 AM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 10:28:30 AM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 10:29:53 AM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 10:31:36 AM
The problem with grey water , Waytogokev, is that not all people use enviro-friendly detergents, not all keep a bucket under their drainpipe (or hose) to make sure it goes under bushes. We have seen people draining their waste directly ino rivers, we have arrived at campsites to find big muddy filthy patches where somebody has drained their grey water. Add to that the smell of human urine, often accompanied by unburied faeces and toilet paper blowing in the wind, some campsites are so awful you wouldnt/couldnt even park there for 20minutes just to have a cuppa.
It is not alright to do this! No wonder so many free-camps get closed down!
This is the CMCA Info on Leave No Trace and Self Contained Vehicle definition;
http://www.cmca.net.au/pages/motorhoming_information/cmca_schemes/LeaveNoTrace.php
A good read, thanks
Well this is drifting away from the OP, and heading towards the thread being closed.
Some camp areas have been declared that only self-contained units may use the area. To comply one must contain all waste, i.e. dish washing water, shower water, washing machine water, plus ones usual hard rubbish and toilet contents, and remove this from the campsite and dispose of appropriately elsewhere.
Thats it, no watering of trees/bushes/grass/whatever or littering, how hard is that to understand. The Campground authority have their reasons, possibly because the minority have stuffed it up for the majority or it is a sensitive area eg beside a town water supply.
If one is unable to meet self containment criteria, then move on to another campsite where self-containment does not apply and feel free to water the trees/bushes/grass/whatever.
-- Edited by Ron and Shirley on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 07:02:00 PM
Nicely written GDN
HW you are confused between self-sufficient and self-contained.
As others have said self-contained means that you can retain all your waste and take it away with you. More and more campsites are becoming for self-contained units only.
Like Gerty Dancer, a number of times we have pulled into a campsite that appears OK only to find it is a virtual smelly swamp due to previous campers discharging their waste/shower water from being too lazy to either empty the over following bucket elsewhere, or shift the discharge pipe a few times so as not to saturate the one spot.
The Australian Caravan Club http://tinyurl.com/bb48kkt gives a brief outline of their self-containment scheme.
Good post John, I thought it was good to water a tree.
Regards Abes n Kaz