Jeep, Disco, or Touareg Initially Posted on Techies Corner
Plendo said
04:36 AM Mar 26, 2013
I initially posted this on Techies Corner, but did not get as much feedback as I expected, so I have brought t here to the bigger audience. For thos of you who have seen it before I appologise.
We have ordered our van, and now we need to make a decision as to which tow vehicle to use. We will have an ATM on our van of about 3,200kg (large payload), and thus we need a very capable towing vehicle.
We have narrowed the field, excluding vehicles that are too big, lack sophistication and comfort, have high running cost, very dated mechanicals, or we just plain don't like them.
We are left with three vehicles:
Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, probably based on a Laredo with a couple of options. It would also have the 8 speed auto which is due in July on the 2014 spec vehicle.
Land Rover Discovery 4, about 3 years old with 60 to 80k. We would wait for a 3.0 SE to come up at an acceptable price.
Volkswagon Toureg TDI (not the 150), again about three years old to get one for an affordable price.
I know and understand that none of these vehicles have huge dealer networks, but at the same time I expect a high degree of reliability, and if we need to wait a few days for parts, tis not the end of the world. We will also make sure we have a high level of roadside assist, covering both the car and the van.
I would love to hear from people who own, or have owned any of the above. I would like to hear positives, negatives, tricks, traps, unique service requirements (example the Toureg appears to need a tailshaft at about 110k).
For all the rest who hold strong views on other vehicles, please resist the temptation to educate me.
Thanks in advance to all the people who do have relevant experience and do contribute.
Olley46 said
05:08 AM Mar 26, 2013
This is only hearsay,I was told of a person that bought a new Jeep I don't know what model ,drove from Sydney to Melbourne and got as little as 7litres pre 100 km fuel wise to me that is pretty good ,that was car only of corse, Jeeps are getting a good wrap lately .
Lance C
Plendo said
05:16 AM Mar 26, 2013
Thanks Lance,
the Jeeps have improved enormously in the time they were controlled by Mercedes, and now by Fiat of course. The 3.0litre Turbo Diesel from Vitorio Motori (part of Fiat) is a mighty engine, and in the 2014 model it will have an 8 speed automatic behind it, and they are predicting sub 8l/100km average.
They are also very comfortable to travel in, but a littel vague in the handling when compared with either of the other two.
When I started this post I was expecting to get a flood of praise and criticism for all three, but have been surprised by how restrained people are being.
rockylizard said
05:51 AM Mar 26, 2013
Gday.
Praps the reason so few responses could be that the majority of 'travellers/GNs' have a Toyota/Patrol/or one of the ute variants - BT50/Ranger/Colorado etc so it is a bit hard to provide advice on their personal "experience" of the models you are looking at.
Take note when you are on the highway, the majority of Australians own a Toyota/Patrol/or one of the ute variants - BT50/Ranger/Colorado etc - you won't see too many D3/4, fewer Toureg but quite a few Jeeps - overall these three vehicles are very much in the minority.
For feedback - my Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 Auto 2006 model with 140,000km on the clock, which I have used for my four years of full-time travel/towing covering 75,000km has been completely reliable, a joy to drive, an excellent tow vehicle, very economical (average 14.4ltr/100km towing), and servicing is no dearer than any Toyota I have owned previously.
Cheers - John
Duh said
01:58 PM Mar 26, 2013
I can't speak from experience on the Jeep Cherokee, but my neighbours son has an older model and it is forever breaking down and is a fuel guzzler according to his Mum. I was also told that the reason parts take so long to get hold of is they have to be ordered from the US.
Some 13 years ago (so I would assume the model would be about 13 years old now as it was new then), the Chief Mechanical Engineer of a major vehicle research company had a company one provided for his use (Jeep Cherokee) and when I was admiring it he said to give them a miss as they really guzzled fuel (and he didn't have to pay for fuel as he had a work fuel card)...... Not real experience on my part, just feedback from others....and applied to older models, not sure what they may be like today....
-- Edited by Duh on Tuesday 26th of March 2013 01:59:41 PM
rockylizard said
07:06 PM Mar 26, 2013
Gday...
I admire your tenacity in attempting to find the 'experience' of "actual owners" of the three vehicle types you are interested in.
The number of 2011/2012 Jeep GC, 2010-2012 Discovery 4 and 2012/2012 VW Toureg sold within Australia are very few in comparision to the Toyota, Nissan, Ford or Mazda range of 4x4s.
This is compounded by an even smaller number of members of this forum who are likely to be owners of one of these exact vehicles.
I must agree that third party comments that "someone said to me" don't add to the enlightenment you are seeking.
Seriously, just find the one you like best, that fits within your budget, check it out carefully and take the plunge.
I have met hundreds of travellers in my lifetime - and there are as many of any make/model that are either happy or have a "story to tell". They are all good and some are not always perfect.
Life's like that.
I bought my Discovery 3 with a lump in my throat and a little fear in my heart, but over the past almost four years I have grown to love it and would not trade it in on anything else - maybe a Discovery 4 if I really had to. Anything else would be a backward step in so many ways.
[edit: the one's being touted as "fuel guzzlers" will amost certainly by petrol models - I have yet to meet a Jeep diesel owner who gets poor economy - often better than my Disco 3 - which averages 14.2ltr/100km towing at 90kph)
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 26th of March 2013 07:10:07 PM
redjcw said
07:34 PM Mar 26, 2013
I have a D4 3litre sdv6...have not yet towed with it but the power in that engine is huge....just comingup to first service at 26000KMs as advised by LR. Hasn't missed a beat so far and is very comfortable...really handy to be able to lower the suspension for entry and exit....especiallyfor my wife.....looking forward to towing with it.
signwilson said
07:49 PM Mar 26, 2013
Owned a Jeep Grand Cherokee Larado the only good part of it was the engine the reliability on the rest of it was rubbish. If you want parts you wait months for them the parts for my seats took 5 months. that was just one time the seats collapsed twice the rear subframe cracked out and servicing cost a fortune. I now have a Toyota 100 series 4.2 turbo diesel and now would not own anything else. A great tow vehicle and good fuel consumption.
Santa said
08:25 PM Mar 26, 2013
I'll refrain from commenting here, Plendo deemed me unqualified in the original thread.
JRH said
09:03 PM Mar 26, 2013
Duh wrote:
I can't speak from experience on the Jeep Cherokee, but my neighbours son has an older model and it is forever breaking down and is a fuel guzzler according to his Mum. I was also told that the reason parts take so long to get hold of is they have to be ordered from the US.
Some 13 years ago (so I would assume the model would be about 13 years old now as it was new then), the Chief Mechanical Engineer of a major vehicle research company had a company one provided for his use (Jeep Cherokee) and when I was admiring it he said to give them a miss as they really guzzled fuel (and he didn't have to pay for fuel as he had a work fuel card)...... Not real experience on my part, just feedback from others....and applied to older models, not sure what they may be like today....
-- Edited by Duh on Tuesday 26th of March 2013 01:59:41 PM
Was talking to a chap at a Caravan Park 2 years ago and he had the latest model Jeep Cherokee at that time, and he was most dissapointed with it, he said it was about as useful as hip pockets on a singlet and chewed the fuel like there was no tomorrow. He also said in his opinion it would not pull the skin off a rice pudding but that was only his opinion.
Kiwi-as said
06:53 PM Mar 27, 2013
Check that the Jeep has a full ladder chassis, most essential for heavy towing. I note Signwilson has said his cracked the rear sub frame.
Wendy santamaria said
03:03 AM Mar 28, 2013
Hey there Plendo, Seems you have done some homework on what you want/need. Have owned many vehicles over my years and most have been used for towing. In my humble opinion, as a mechanic for over thirty years, I would opt for the Jeep. Before the disco and toe rag owners get their knickers in a twist, please let me explain. Firstly it looks as though you are looking at a brand new Jeep, and yes the Laredo spec is much better value for money than the Limited, and possibly the Overland model (top of the line). If you decide on a brand new Jeep then you have a full three years warranty with roadside assist. The power figure on the 3.0 crd v6 in 177kw and 550nm of torque. Having driven this model, albeit not towing, I can see that the midrange grunt that this motor has is sufficient for your needs. I can't comment on the towing economy though. These numbers are almost identical to my current vehicle which is a Navara ST-X 550 which tows exceptionally well. Having said that a couple of the VW toe rags I know of are doing very well towing and have had no issues to speak of. In regards to the servicing of these vehicles, i know the Jeep has Service Parameters of 10,000km, i believe the VW is 15,000, and Not sure on the Disco. These may also be a factor. The VW also has to have the Brake rotors replaced a scheduled Service intervals, dont believe the others do. Secondly, if you are looking at keeping the vehicle for a while, the cost of repairs and parts on the euro model vehicles is very high, I know that the Jeep parts aren't cheap either, but you won't have to worry About them for three years. Also you are not buying "someone else's problem child".
Regards and good luck Bryan
Plendo said
05:50 AM Apr 25, 2013
DECISION MADE.
Thank you to all the people who responded and helped us make our decision, we received much good advice, and we definitely changed our direction. We spent more than we planned, but in the end we made a decision we are comfortable with.
Firstly the thought process, and the learning's.
Key out of what many people said across three forums, was the importance of removing the surprises out of the maintenance costs, all three vehicles are complex, and have the potential to chew up huge amounts of money with unexpected repairs. Warranty, and roadside are important, which means new.
As I drove, and re drove the candidate vehicles, became less and less comfortable with the Jeep. Something in the control dynamics just does not suit me. After living with it for a period of time I would not look forward to being on the road in a Jeep. Scratch the Jeep.
Compare the Touareg and the Disco, very similar, yet very different vehicles. The Touareg is comfortable and feels light on the road, the Disco is like a substantial limousine, it has weight, and you know it is substantial when you drive it. The Disco also has a far superior driving position for me.
Mechanically not much to split them, financially the difference is negligible. More gadgets on the Touareg.
In the end the choice was made based on what we felt best in, what made us feel safe.
Today we took delivery of a White Discovery SDV6 SE.
Thanks again to all who helped.
jules47 said
04:40 PM Apr 25, 2013
A good decision made with good research Plendo - hope you enjoy it - next will be the van - bring it on!!!!
Delta18 said
07:23 PM Apr 25, 2013
Good decision, I personally could never own a car that sounded like a Toe-Rag!
I initially posted this on Techies Corner, but did not get as much feedback as I expected, so I have brought t here to the bigger audience. For thos of you who have seen it before I appologise.
We have ordered our van, and now we need to make a decision as to which tow vehicle to use. We will have an ATM on our van of about 3,200kg (large payload), and thus we need a very capable towing vehicle.
We have narrowed the field, excluding vehicles that are too big, lack sophistication and comfort, have high running cost, very dated mechanicals, or we just plain don't like them.
We are left with three vehicles:
Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, probably based on a Laredo with a couple of options. It would also have the 8 speed auto which is due in July on the 2014 spec vehicle.
Land Rover Discovery 4, about 3 years old with 60 to 80k. We would wait for a 3.0 SE to come up at an acceptable price.
Volkswagon Toureg TDI (not the 150), again about three years old to get one for an affordable price.
I know and understand that none of these vehicles have huge dealer networks, but at the same time I expect a high degree of reliability, and if we need to wait a few days for parts, tis not the end of the world. We will also make sure we have a high level of roadside assist, covering both the car and the van.
I would love to hear from people who own, or have owned any of the above. I would like to hear positives, negatives, tricks, traps, unique service requirements (example the Toureg appears to need a tailshaft at about 110k).
For all the rest who hold strong views on other vehicles, please resist the temptation to educate me.
Thanks in advance to all the people who do have relevant experience and do contribute.
Lance C
Thanks Lance,
the Jeeps have improved enormously in the time they were controlled by Mercedes, and now by Fiat of course. The 3.0litre Turbo Diesel from Vitorio Motori (part of Fiat) is a mighty engine, and in the 2014 model it will have an 8 speed automatic behind it, and they are predicting sub 8l/100km average.
They are also very comfortable to travel in, but a littel vague in the handling when compared with either of the other two.
When I started this post I was expecting to get a flood of praise and criticism for all three, but have been surprised by how restrained people are being.
Gday.
Praps the reason so few responses could be that the majority of 'travellers/GNs' have a Toyota/Patrol/or one of the ute variants - BT50/Ranger/Colorado etc so it is a bit hard to provide advice on their personal "experience" of the models you are looking at.
Take note when you are on the highway, the majority of Australians own a Toyota/Patrol/or one of the ute variants - BT50/Ranger/Colorado etc - you won't see too many D3/4, fewer Toureg but quite a few Jeeps - overall these three vehicles are very much in the minority.
For feedback - my Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 Auto 2006 model with 140,000km on the clock, which I have used for my four years of full-time travel/towing covering 75,000km has been completely reliable, a joy to drive, an excellent tow vehicle, very economical (average 14.4ltr/100km towing), and servicing is no dearer than any Toyota I have owned previously.
Cheers - John
I can't speak from experience on the Jeep Cherokee, but my neighbours son has an older model and it is forever breaking down and is a fuel guzzler according to his Mum. I was also told that the reason parts take so long to get hold of is they have to be ordered from the US.
Some 13 years ago (so I would assume the model would be about 13 years old now as it was new then), the Chief Mechanical Engineer of a major vehicle research company had a company one provided for his use (Jeep Cherokee) and when I was admiring it he said to give them a miss as they really guzzled fuel (and he didn't have to pay for fuel as he had a work fuel card)...... Not real experience on my part, just feedback from others....and applied to older models, not sure what they may be like today....
-- Edited by Duh on Tuesday 26th of March 2013 01:59:41 PM
Gday...
I admire your tenacity in attempting to find the 'experience' of "actual owners" of the three vehicle types you are interested in.
The number of 2011/2012 Jeep GC, 2010-2012 Discovery 4 and 2012/2012 VW Toureg sold within Australia are very few in comparision to the Toyota, Nissan, Ford or Mazda range of 4x4s.
This is compounded by an even smaller number of members of this forum who are likely to be owners of one of these exact vehicles.
I must agree that third party comments that "someone said to me" don't add to the enlightenment you are seeking.
Seriously, just find the one you like best, that fits within your budget, check it out carefully and take the plunge.
I have met hundreds of travellers in my lifetime - and there are as many of any make/model that are either happy or have a "story to tell". They are all good and some are not always perfect.
Life's like that.
I bought my Discovery 3 with a lump in my throat and a little fear in my heart, but over the past almost four years I have grown to love it and would not trade it in on anything else - maybe a Discovery 4 if I really had to. Anything else would be a backward step in so many ways.
[edit: the one's being touted as "fuel guzzlers" will amost certainly by petrol models - I have yet to meet a Jeep diesel owner who gets poor economy - often better than my Disco 3 - which averages 14.2ltr/100km towing at 90kph)
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 26th of March 2013 07:10:07 PM
I'll refrain from commenting here, Plendo deemed me unqualified in the original thread.
Was talking to a chap at a Caravan Park 2 years ago and he had the latest model Jeep Cherokee at that time, and he was most dissapointed with it, he said it was about as useful as hip pockets on a singlet and chewed the fuel like there was no tomorrow. He also said in his opinion it would not pull the skin off a rice pudding but that was only his opinion.
Seems you have done some homework on what you want/need. Have owned many vehicles over my
years and most have been used for towing. In my humble opinion, as a mechanic for over thirty years, I
would opt for the Jeep. Before the disco and toe rag owners get their knickers in a twist, please let me
explain.
Firstly it looks as though you are looking at a brand new Jeep, and yes the Laredo spec is much better
value for money than the Limited, and possibly the Overland model (top of the line). If you decide on a
brand new Jeep then you have a full three years warranty with roadside assist. The power figure on
the 3.0 crd v6 in 177kw and 550nm of torque. Having driven this model, albeit not towing, I can see
that the midrange grunt that this motor has is sufficient for your needs. I can't comment on the towing
economy though. These numbers are almost identical to my current vehicle which is a Navara ST-X 550
which tows exceptionally well. Having said that a couple of the VW toe rags I know of are doing very well
towing and have had no issues to speak of.
In regards to the servicing of these vehicles, i know the Jeep has Service Parameters of 10,000km, i believe
the VW is 15,000, and Not sure on the Disco. These may also be a factor. The VW also has to have the
Brake rotors replaced a scheduled Service intervals, dont believe the others do.
Secondly, if you are looking at keeping the vehicle for a while, the cost of repairs and parts on the euro
model vehicles is very high, I know that the Jeep parts aren't cheap either, but you won't have to worry
About them for three years. Also you are not buying "someone else's problem child".
Regards and good luck
Bryan
Thank you to all the people who responded and helped us make our decision, we received much good advice, and we definitely changed our direction. We spent more than we planned, but in the end we made a decision we are comfortable with.
Firstly the thought process, and the learning's.
Key out of what many people said across three forums, was the importance of removing the surprises out of the maintenance costs, all three vehicles are complex, and have the potential to chew up huge amounts of money with unexpected repairs.
Warranty, and roadside are important, which means new.
As I drove, and re drove the candidate vehicles, became less and less comfortable with the Jeep. Something in the control dynamics just does not suit me. After living with it for a period of time I would not look forward to being on the road in a Jeep.
Scratch the Jeep.
Compare the Touareg and the Disco, very similar, yet very different vehicles. The Touareg is comfortable and feels light on the road, the Disco is like a substantial limousine, it has weight, and you know it is substantial when you drive it. The Disco also has a far superior driving position for me.
Mechanically not much to split them, financially the difference is negligible. More gadgets on the Touareg.
In the end the choice was made based on what we felt best in, what made us feel safe.
Today we took delivery of a White Discovery SDV6 SE.
Thanks again to all who helped.
Good decision, I personally could never own a car that sounded like a Toe-Rag!
Cheers & happy motoring.