I have a Toyota Aurion 3500cc and am thinking of buying a Viscount Little Nipper - weight unloaded is apparently 640kgs.
If I tow this behind my Aurion at highway speed how much extra in fuel consumption should I be reckonning on? 100% - 80% or less?
Never towed before - I want a SMALL van since there is only me and my two Chihuahuas.
Cheers, Mal
Duh said
07:35 AM May 2, 2013
You already know your fuel consumption for your Aurion, so I would say about an extra 3-4 litres too.
I've had three small tows (2 small caravans and camper trailer) and neither made a great deal of difference.
Little Nippers are a great little van, some are back door models and others are rear side door.
-- Edited by Duh on Thursday 2nd of May 2013 07:47:59 AM
Weedy Pigeon said
02:15 PM May 2, 2013
Couldn't give you an accurate assessment on that combination Mal. One thing that has become clear though is that V6 engines are not an economical option even when not towing. For some reason the 4L straight 6 engines used by Ford are every bit as economical as these little V6's. I have a 3.5L Mitsubishi and it is not a cheap vehicle on fuel.
I'd be looking at how many K's you'r thinking of doing and then reckoning up just what the extra costs would be. The option would be to change vehicles which won't be cheap either I would assume.
Landfall said
02:15 PM May 2, 2013
With that combination, I would guess at about an extra three litres per one hundred km's.
Ken
Roving-Dutchy said
02:42 PM May 2, 2013
I have found that as a general rule you can estimate an increase of 50% above useage when not towing, so if you usually use 10L per hundred you should expect 15l/ 100 when towing. Cheers David
hako said
05:29 PM May 2, 2013
My Ford Territory with the inline 6 uses 12.2l/100km around town and the same when towing at 90kph. I think the reason they are identical is that around town is stop start and short runs whilst when towing I am at a constant speed with the torque coverter locked. The Territory is also the same height as my Avan Cruiser (800kg) so it possible the extra wind resistance of the van is minimal - if the little nipper is lots higher than the Aurion then you'd have to use more fuel. So whatever extra fuel you use will be due to the extra weight plus wind resistance. At a guess I'd say 20-30% as a maximum figure. Good Luck.
Denis
malfromcessnock said
09:05 PM May 2, 2013
The 'Little Nipper' sale fell through - got a text message a while ago.
A friend also had told me $9,000 for a 20 year old van was a rip off.
Thoughts on that please. It sounds expensive - tried to knock him down to $8500 he wouldn't have a bar of it.
It sold for $9900!
-- Edited by malfromcessnock on Thursday 2nd of May 2013 09:08:07 PM
Duh said
11:51 PM May 2, 2013
From the photo's looks in real good condition, one thing I would check is for water damage under the beds and inside cupboard floors, and see if the fridge works on gas & power.
Although an older van it looks ok for the price to me try $7,500 and see what happens, if not then maybe $8,000.
I am sure Beth on site here on GN has a similar van about the same vintage, I will send her a pm to reply to this post.
There are a couple in Adelaide for a price comparison, see;
Another small van around 12 foot is the Jayco Feather, earlier models called 12' Jayco Freedom pop tops (there are larger Freedoms so need the size to search). Next size up is 14' Freedoms. See;
What do you think of the price? 1988 - $8300 negotiable.
Is that expensive in your opinion?
Have sent them an expression of interest.
malfromcessnock said
08:48 AM May 3, 2013
I know Beth's - she gave me an interest. I wrote in my phone over a year ago so I wouldn't forget it. I really like her little setup, complete with a remote solar panel. Way to go.
Thanks so much for your help.
But can it be that prices in SA are always cheaper and the Sydney seller will say - ok dude, go to SA to buy your Little Nipper. Jeez?
Duh said
11:27 AM May 3, 2013
Always best to buy reasonably close to home (within your own state) if you can Mal, be rotten travelling all the way to another state and then finding the van was not what it was cracked up to be (photo's can be deceiving) and then there are rego changes to think of too.
Good luck with your search, keep us informed if you end up getting something...
-- Edited by Duh on Friday 3rd of May 2013 11:28:21 AM
jetj said
08:24 PM May 3, 2013
I've noticed that Motorhomes and Campervans seem to be cheaper in WA.
Beth54 said
10:55 PM May 3, 2013
Thanks for the PM Vic.
Mal, I bought my 1988 Nipper in 2011 for $7,500, knocked down from $8,250.
I had to replace the springs and tyres pretty much straight away, and had a reno inside to suit my purposes. It came with an annex and awning, a TV antenna, and a microwave. (Which I gave away.) Oh and it had no in house battery. As I can't do poles and pegs, I don't use the annex and my b-i-l modified the poles so I can still put up the awning by slotting onto the back of the van. (As seen in this photo.)
With normal driving, I average 7.96L/100kms, and towing average is 11.48L/kms. And I generally do around 90kph towing on the open road.
If I had the money, I would prefer to have a newer van, but I'm very happy with my Nipper and have been pleasantly surprised at the towing capabilities of my i30.
The double bed was already there, but bil raised it so the portaloo would fit underneath. Adding more photos to show you what he did inside.
When I bought it, the dining area had been made into a single bed, but I wanted it to be returned to it's original state, so Lee decided to strip the whole lot out and redo it to our plan. (He and my sister have been long time caravanners and he's a very good handyman.)
You'll see how he raised the bed by putting a lump of whatever under the original framed legs, then corralled the loo so it didn't move around. Then he boarded it all up with a little door. So I actually have heaps of storage under the bed, but because of the ball weight issues, I don't actually carry much under there.
By taking the dining area back to original size, he was able to make a very handy set of drawers beside the bed. Then he made a new table because the original was so very heavy.
Under the seat closest to the door, he made a big drawer which holds pots, pans, etc. Handy if your cooking outside. Under the other seat is the house battery, thus keeping it's weight closer to the axle.
Being a cabinetmaker, it'll be a breeze for you to reno the inside to your own liking/needs.
The insurance is $266.49 p/a, but I pay a monthly $24.78 because that suits my budget. The rego in Qld is $89.40 p/a. It's probably time I did another shop around for insurance, to see if there's anything cheaper.
Vic reminded me that the floor is a little dippy just forward of the axle where I step out of bed. Lee has reinforced it underneath, but said really will need to be done properly sometime in the future.
I agree with Vic that it looks like a nice van. And yes, write yourself a note. I do that al the time.
Crawl around underneath it if you can...my son did that for me. No way I could do that!
These photos were taken just after it had it's reno, so yes, she was nice and tidy. She has been parked up at a friends property since January, because I haven't been able to go anywhere because of ill health. So she's probably quite dirty now and in need of some ant spray etc. And the grass has probably grown up underneath her. Note to self, go out and check it out.
I mostly free camp, only staying in CP's when I have to. I have a popup shower tent, but haven't actually had to use it yet. I either bird bath in the van, or I find somewhere to have a shower along the way. And I love having the solar panel to top up the battery, because I do like my laptop.
Good luck tomorrow.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Saturday 4th of May 2013 12:07:36 AM
Maybe it deserves a look see. I'd like to take $7500 and see what they say.
Does yours have singles or a double bed?
All the best, Mal
Beth54 said
02:00 AM May 4, 2013
It has the double east/west bed Mal. The good points with this one you're looking at are the good tyres, if they really are, new gas bottle...mine was so old I couldn't get it refilled...and if it has an in house battery, although the ad doesn't mention it. I would still try to get the price down under $8,000. After all, they are 25 years old.
Also check for water damage around the top of the popup roof. From what I can see in the photos, there has been some on the right hand side above the bed. It may have been repaired as mine was. I also notice that there are no overhead cupboards like mine. I wonder if they were taken out or just weren't put into this one. ??? The fridge is the same as mine, original, and mine's still going.
Your van looks lovely Beth. Was it a big job putting in the double bed?
I can't see any evidence of water damage - you have great eyes. Is it on or beneath the vinyl wall extension (whatever it's called)?
Good point about the tyres.
Apparently their awning is the same as yours - fits above the rear door.
There isn't much storage - the overhead cupboards would be very handy. I may be able to change that - cabinet maker by trade.
Your van is so sweet and ladylike inside and very clean outside.
I have an appointment in Oatley at 8:30am tomorrow. So tomorrow will be filled with excitement.
Are they reasonable to insure?
When you go away to you free camp or stay in parks?
No more questions for now. lol
Cheers, Mal
Duh said
04:22 AM May 4, 2013
Beth54 wrote:
Thanks for the PM Vic.
And thanks for responding to Mal's query Beth......nice van you have too!!!
Hope you find something eventually Mal!
malfromcessnock said
05:01 AM May 4, 2013
And thank you Duh for your help and interest. Appointment tomorrow 8:30am to view.
Duh said
05:21 AM May 4, 2013
Will keep my fingers and legs crossed for you Mal, if they haggle too much don't walk away if you really want it and it's in good nick for it's age, get it.
Even though old, it is still a cheap price for a van and you can upgrade later if you want too after using it for awhile.
Ask them too when were the wheel bearings last serviced and if any paper work, I wouldn't let that put you off buying it though, they need to be done now and then as routine. Have a look underneath for any floor sagging (also treading on the floor inside) or signs of the chassis sagging or having been damaged/repaired, especially sagging under the doorway and check the door closes ok.
Signs of water leaks also like others have said, bear in mind they could be old ones since repaired, if possible look for an wood rot etc.
I know it is not a new van, but you don't want to be forking out big bucks either for any major repairs.
Lastly, make sure you see papers to show they own the van.
Good luck, it looks a nice unit, I hope it proves to be ok when you inspect it. If you decide to buy it, ask if there are any extra's they can throw in, eg; water & sullage hoses or mats etc......
malfromcessnock said
05:28 AM May 4, 2013
Thanks Vic, you've been a real help.
Will try to remember all your points - may make a note of them. hahaha
Have a great weekend.
Duh said
07:29 AM May 4, 2013
malfromcessnock wrote:
Will try to remember all your points - may make a note of them.
Also see if they will give you the power cord (but see what they say they will give you first). Sometimes people like to keep the extra's for their next van, they are not obligated to give you any extra's but may do. Gas bottle should be included in the price, also crank handle for the legs. They are not obligated to include a jack and jack handle, but may. If not usually your car jack will do the job if needed.
A van of that size and loaded weight should not need WDH (Weight distribution hitch) or levelling bars so don't be too concerned about them, however if they have them and offer them to you take them. Good luck! Vic
Beth54 said
07:37 AM May 4, 2013
Duh wrote:
malfromcessnock wrote:
Will try to remember all your points - may make a note of them.
Also see if they will give you the power cord (but see what they say they will give you first). Sometimes people like to keep the extra's for their next van, they are not obligated to give you any extra's but may do. Gas bottle should be included in the price, also crank handle for the legs. They are not obligated to include a jack and jack handle, but may. If not usually your car jack will do the job if needed.
A van of that size and loaded weight should not need WDH (Weight distribution hitch) or levelling bars so don't be too concerned about them, however if they have them and offer them to you take them. Good luck! Vic
Oh yes, I got the power lead, and the grey water hose included too. And some spare hub caps. Just as well, because the buggas keep falling off!
And Vic, why are we still on this puter at this hour of the night?! Say goodnight Vic.
Duh said
07:39 AM May 4, 2013
Beth54 wrote:
Oh yes, I got the power lead, and the grey water hose included too. And some spare hub caps. Just as well, because the buggas keep falling off!
And Vic, why are we still on this puter at this hour of the night?! Say goodnight Vic.
Only 1038 PM over here in Perth Beth.......so what are you still doing up so late !
Beth54 said
03:48 PM May 4, 2013
Doh! I knew that.
I was actually in bed and checked my phone..big mistake at that hour..saw the new posts and just HAD to say my bit.
Duh said
07:52 PM May 4, 2013
Beth54 wrote:
Doh! I knew that.
I was actually in bed and checked my phone..big mistake at that hour..saw the new posts and just HAD to say my bit.
Typical woman.....had to have the last word......Ooooops......stand by for incoming !
Hey board members
I have a Toyota Aurion 3500cc and am thinking of buying a Viscount Little Nipper - weight unloaded is apparently 640kgs.
If I tow this behind my Aurion at highway speed how much extra in fuel consumption should I be reckonning on? 100% - 80% or less?
Never towed before - I want a SMALL van since there is only me and my two Chihuahuas.
Cheers, Mal
You already know your fuel consumption for your Aurion, so I would say about an extra 3-4 litres too.
I've had three small tows (2 small caravans and camper trailer) and neither made a great deal of difference.
Little Nippers are a great little van, some are back door models and others are rear side door.
-- Edited by Duh on Thursday 2nd of May 2013 07:47:59 AM
One thing that has become clear though is that V6 engines are not an economical option even when not towing. For some reason the 4L straight 6 engines used by Ford are every bit as economical as these little V6's. I have a 3.5L Mitsubishi and it is not a cheap vehicle on fuel.
I'd be looking at how many K's you'r thinking of doing and then reckoning up just what the extra costs would be. The option would be to change vehicles which won't be cheap either I would assume.
With that combination, I would guess at about an extra three litres per one hundred km's.
Ken
Cheers
David
The Territory is also the same height as my Avan Cruiser (800kg) so it possible the extra wind resistance of the van is minimal - if the little nipper is lots higher than the Aurion then you'd have to use more fuel.
So whatever extra fuel you use will be due to the extra weight plus wind resistance. At a guess I'd say 20-30% as a maximum figure.
Good Luck.
Denis
The 'Little Nipper' sale fell through - got a text message a while ago.
A friend also had told me $9,000 for a 20 year old van was a rip off.
Thoughts on that please. It sounds expensive - tried to knock him down to $8500 he wouldn't have a bar of it.
It sold for $9900!
-- Edited by malfromcessnock on Thursday 2nd of May 2013 09:08:07 PM
From the photo's looks in real good condition, one thing I would check is for water damage under the beds and inside cupboard floors, and see if the fridge works on gas & power.
Although an older van it looks ok for the price to me try $7,500 and see what happens, if not then maybe $8,000.
I am sure Beth on site here on GN has a similar van about the same vintage, I will send her a pm to reply to this post.
There are a couple in Adelaide for a price comparison, see;
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hampstead-gardens/caravan/viscount-little-nipper-11ft/1018873236
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-caravan-campervan/viscount+little+nipper/k0c18374
Also a wanted ad on that one from someone only wanting to pay $5, 000 for one.
Looks like around $7-7,500 may be the approx price for something around that year....
You might like to look at Coromal Popettes as well, this one is in WA, but gives you an idea of year and price;
http://www.actionrvcentre.com.au/RVdetail.aspx?ID=691
Another couple in WA, and one in Tassie, see;
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-caravan-campervan/coromal+popette/k0c18374
Another small van around 12 foot is the Jayco Feather, earlier models called 12' Jayco Freedom pop tops (there are larger Freedoms so need the size to search). Next size up is 14' Freedoms. See;
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/swan-point/caravan/12-6-jayco-feather-pop-top-caravan/1016877037
-- Edited by Duh on Friday 3rd of May 2013 12:30:23 AM
Check with these people and see if they have any small vans in stock, or Gumtree for private sales.
http://www.sydneyrvgroup.com.au/used-caravans
A lot depends on the quality of the van, but try to see some others for sale on various sites to make a price comparison.
Have a look at this near Hurstville, NSW on Gumtree;
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/oatley/caravan/viscount-nipper-caravan/1018424920
Duh - the one on Gumtree is ideal.
What do you think of the price? 1988 - $8300 negotiable.
Is that expensive in your opinion?
Have sent them an expression of interest.
Thanks so much for your help.
But can it be that prices in SA are always cheaper and the Sydney seller will say - ok dude, go to SA to buy your Little Nipper. Jeez?
Always best to buy reasonably close to home (within your own state) if you can Mal, be rotten travelling all the way to another state and then finding the van was not what it was cracked up to be (photo's can be deceiving) and then there are rego changes to think of too.
Good luck with your search, keep us informed if you end up getting something...
-- Edited by Duh on Friday 3rd of May 2013 11:28:21 AM
I've noticed that Motorhomes and Campervans seem to be cheaper in WA.
Thanks for the PM Vic.
Mal, I bought my 1988 Nipper in 2011 for $7,500, knocked down from $8,250.
I had to replace the springs and tyres pretty much straight away, and had a reno inside to suit my purposes. It came with an annex and awning, a TV antenna, and a microwave. (Which I gave away.) Oh and it had no in house battery. As I can't do poles and pegs, I don't use the annex and my b-i-l modified the poles so I can still put up the awning by slotting onto the back of the van. (As seen in this photo.)
With normal driving, I average 7.96L/100kms, and towing average is 11.48L/kms. And I generally do around 90kph towing on the open road.
If I had the money, I would prefer to have a newer van, but I'm very happy with my Nipper and have been pleasantly surprised at the towing capabilities of my i30.
Hope this helps.
The double bed was already there, but bil raised it so the portaloo would fit underneath. Adding more photos to show you what he did inside.
When I bought it, the dining area had been made into a single bed, but I wanted it to be returned to it's original state, so Lee decided to strip the whole lot out and redo it to our plan. (He and my sister have been long time caravanners and he's a very good handyman.)
You'll see how he raised the bed by putting a lump of whatever under the original framed legs, then corralled the loo so it didn't move around. Then he boarded it all up with a little door. So I actually have heaps of storage under the bed, but because of the ball weight issues, I don't actually carry much under there.
By taking the dining area back to original size, he was able to make a very handy set of drawers beside the bed. Then he made a new table because the original was so very heavy.
Under the seat closest to the door, he made a big drawer which holds pots, pans, etc. Handy if your cooking outside. Under the other seat is the house battery, thus keeping it's weight closer to the axle.
Being a cabinetmaker, it'll be a breeze for you to reno the inside to your own liking/needs.
The insurance is $266.49 p/a, but I pay a monthly $24.78 because that suits my budget. The rego in Qld is $89.40 p/a. It's probably time I did another shop around for insurance, to see if there's anything cheaper.
Vic reminded me that the floor is a little dippy just forward of the axle where I step out of bed. Lee has reinforced it underneath, but said really will need to be done properly sometime in the future.
I agree with Vic that it looks like a nice van. And yes, write yourself a note. I do that al the time.
Crawl around underneath it if you can...my son did that for me. No way I could do that!
These photos were taken just after it had it's reno, so yes, she was nice and tidy. She has been parked up at a friends property since January, because I haven't been able to go anywhere because of ill health. So she's probably quite dirty now and in need of some ant spray etc. And the grass has probably grown up underneath her. Note to self, go out and check it out.
I mostly free camp, only staying in CP's when I have to. I have a popup shower tent, but haven't actually had to use it yet. I either bird bath in the van, or I find somewhere to have a shower along the way. And I love having the solar panel to top up the battery, because I do like my laptop.
Good luck tomorrow.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Saturday 4th of May 2013 12:07:36 AM
The people who are selling theirs are asking $8300 - same model as yours.
I spoke to him this morning and he indicated he may accept $7,800 - still seems a bit dear. They live in Sydney and are only 3hrs max from me.
Here is the link to the van.
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/oatley/caravan/viscount-nipper-caravan/1018424920
Maybe it deserves a look see. I'd like to take $7500 and see what they say.
Does yours have singles or a double bed?
All the best, Mal
It has the double east/west bed Mal. The good points with this one you're looking at are the good tyres, if they really are, new gas bottle...mine was so old I couldn't get it refilled...and if it has an in house battery, although the ad doesn't mention it. I would still try to get the price down under $8,000. After all, they are 25 years old.
Also check for water damage around the top of the popup roof. From what I can see in the photos, there has been some on the right hand side above the bed. It may have been repaired as mine was. I also notice that there are no overhead cupboards like mine. I wonder if they were taken out or just weren't put into this one. ??? The fridge is the same as mine, original, and mine's still going.
The yucky bedspread and tablecloth are gone.
I can't see any evidence of water damage - you have great eyes. Is it on or beneath the vinyl wall extension (whatever it's called)?
Good point about the tyres.
Apparently their awning is the same as yours - fits above the rear door.
There isn't much storage - the overhead cupboards would be very handy. I may be able to change that - cabinet maker by trade.
Your van is so sweet and ladylike inside and very clean outside.
I have an appointment in Oatley at 8:30am tomorrow. So tomorrow will be filled with excitement.
Are they reasonable to insure?
When you go away to you free camp or stay in parks?
No more questions for now. lol
Cheers, Mal
And thanks for responding to Mal's query Beth......nice van you have too!!!
Hope you find something eventually Mal!
Will keep my fingers and legs crossed for you Mal, if they haggle too much don't walk away if you really want it and it's in good nick for it's age, get it.
Even though old, it is still a cheap price for a van and you can upgrade later if you want too after using it for awhile.
Ask them too when were the wheel bearings last serviced and if any paper work, I wouldn't let that put you off buying it though, they need to be done now and then as routine. Have a look underneath for any floor sagging (also treading on the floor inside) or signs of the chassis sagging or having been damaged/repaired, especially sagging under the doorway and check the door closes ok.
Signs of water leaks also like others have said, bear in mind they could be old ones since repaired, if possible look for an wood rot etc.
I know it is not a new van, but you don't want to be forking out big bucks either for any major repairs.
Lastly, make sure you see papers to show they own the van.
Good luck, it looks a nice unit, I hope it proves to be ok when you inspect it. If you decide to buy it, ask if there are any extra's they can throw in, eg; water & sullage hoses or mats etc......
Will try to remember all your points - may make a note of them. hahaha
Have a great weekend.
Also see if they will give you the power cord (but see what they say they will give you first). Sometimes people like to keep the extra's for their next van, they are not obligated to give you any extra's but may do. Gas bottle should be included in the price, also crank handle for the legs. They are not obligated to include a jack and jack handle, but may. If not usually your car jack will do the job if needed.
A van of that size and loaded weight should not need WDH (Weight distribution hitch) or levelling bars so don't be too concerned about them, however if they have them and offer them to you take them. Good luck! Vic
Oh yes, I got the power lead, and the grey water hose included too. And some spare hub caps. Just as well, because the buggas keep falling off!
And Vic, why are we still on this puter at this hour of the night?!
Say goodnight Vic.
Oh yes, I got the power lead, and the grey water hose included too. And some spare hub caps. Just as well, because the buggas keep falling off!
Only 1038 PM over here in Perth Beth.......so what are you still doing up so late !
Doh!
I knew that. 
I was actually in bed and checked my phone..big mistake at that hour..saw the new posts and just HAD to say my bit.
Typical woman.....had to have the last word......Ooooops......stand by for incoming !
How did the van viewing go Mal? All good I hope !
You see, Vic, I can refrain.
Yes Mal, how was the van????