[posted on another thread ... but thought I would give it a life of its own. I apologise in advance for using that useless phrase "free camping"]
Many know me and may remember my lifestyle is usually to "free camp" (hate those two words together). However, a bit of my recent history.
Gin Gin QLD - showgrounds. stayed 9 days. About 7 to 10 vans each night. Local van park less than half full.
Eidsvold QLD - van park. stayed 12 days. Except for one of those nights, I was the only van there. At the "free" camp just out of town each afternoon there were between 4 and 7 vans.
Biloela QLD - van park. stayed 2 nights. park was less than half full and the majority stayed only overnight.
Duaringa QLDÂ "free" camp - I lunched only. There would have been at least 40 vans there.
Bedford Weir QLD - "free" camp - it was chockers ... at least 80 vans. Had trouble finding a spot. I have stayed there before and enjoyed it - not this time as it was worse than staying in a van park. It was claustrophobic. Only stayed overnight.
Emerald QLD - lunched at the info centre. On the way through the "free" camp at Botanical Gardens, under the bridge, had at least 12 vans/vehicles/tents(yes tents) even all up along the fence to the roundabout ... and this was still at lunchtime. Talking to the bloke in the info centre about van parks and the "free" camp and he believes the van parks are struggling to get half occupancy even during this peak season.
Sapphire QLD - drove through on the way to Rubyvale. Van park looked about half full - "free" camp" had 7 very crowded in vans.
Rubyvale QLD - in the van park. I booked because I had always heard this place is full and buzzing with GNs. Been here 2 nights and the park is less than half full (about 7 vans). I don't know where the crowds of GNs I heard usually frequent this area, but they ain't at Rubyvale it would appear.
The moral of this story is that there are still many GNs on the road and the "free" camps are attracting a lot of 'business' and it does seem to be at the expense (sorry about that word) of the van parks.
I do not know the solution, but this trip has made me rethink this whole "van park/"free camping" thing. This short, recent scenario above would indicate van parks are definitely not getting their share of the market. There are a myriad of reasons for sure, not the least that they charge too much (?) and provide services we don't want.
I do know that the general travelling public (GNs?) seem to put up with being overcrowded, with little facility, at a "rest area" they love to call a camping spot, and get it at the cost of the local ratepayers ... but will not shell out a $ to stay in a van park where at least they can have a bit more space, facilities - and given the size of most van parks - fewer neighbours.
Again, I don't know the solution but I know I find this so-called 'camping' at rest areas far too off-putting.
Cheers - John
[edit: just removed those weird  thingies .... where on earth (or cyberspace!) do they come from?]
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 11th of June 2013 08:38:54 AM
jimbo said
03:25 PM Jun 11, 2013
well said.
Gerty Dancer said
03:29 PM Jun 11, 2013
Its very interesting about Emerald, RL. We were there last April/May and had difficulty getting a site in an over-crowded van park. The reason for the overcrowding was large numbers of mine workers needing accommodation. I wonder has the local mining industry closed down? The "Free-camp" you mentioned had 2 units in when we visited at lunchtime, but more overnight.
GaryKelly said
03:41 PM Jun 11, 2013
Interesting survey, John, and thanks for posting it. It's certainly an eye opener and makes you think twice about the problems faced by CP owners, caused by low cost alternatives. I'm wondering how many of the campers using the freebies could afford a CP but choose the freebie because they're cheapskates - rather like wealthy families getting their groceries free from Vinnies even though they can afford to shop at the supermarket. Maybe there should be some sort of means test to use the freebies - like showing a pension card - but I suppose that would involve a bureaucratic nightmare and be unworkable.
I'm not sure what the answer is either, but I do know one thing... if the freebies keep attracting campers who could easily afford to stay at a CP, pretty soon the freebies will disappear and make it impossible for pensioners like me to travel anywhere. Another case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
Dougwe said
04:35 PM Jun 11, 2013
Hi John,
Very interesting stats there my friend. If you read my weekly updates at all (no update this week) you will notice when actually travelling I tend to share around a bit, some night 'Alternative Camping' (Is that better mate) and van parks. I say 'Alternative' because some have been free and some have been a gold coin donation system. I'm staying put in a 'Alternative' camp for a while in Townsville, I say 'Alternative as I am buying food and a few other things for the family so I am contributing, I also help out with school runs picking the grandkids up.
I too visited that 'free' camp you mentioned in Emerald about two months ago roughly and it was full of vans, motorhomes, wizbangs and yes, tents, so I decided not to add an Avan to the mix and spent the night in a van park just around the corner.
If I could get a van park each night for around $20 I would van park it most of the time. I must say though having said that, I have been lucky with the van parks I have picked and got for around $20 per night. I think only two parks have been over but under $30.
I choose a park from the 'Caravan Parks Australia Wide' book, by the same people that do 'The Bible' and choose ones out of big towns if possible and ones with a 1 $ sign on it. Probably just lucky so far as I read on this forum of bad van parks all the time.
Hylda&Jon said
06:46 PM Jun 11, 2013
This would probably be the common thoughts of many free campers.
Don't need toilets
Don't need showers
Don't need laundries
Don't need electricity
Don't need water
Don't need TV's, jumping castles, swimming pools, etc, etc, etc.
Security should be the choice of the individual (and by many of the incidents reported I'm not sure how secure some van parks are nowadays)
So! What do self contained nomads get for their $20 and up for when staying in a caravan park?
Maybe if caravan parks had parking spots with no access to amenities for a minimal amount like $10 they might lure more vans.
Cheers
Jon
-- Edited by Hylda&Jon on Tuesday 11th of June 2013 06:52:57 PM
jetj said
07:44 PM Jun 11, 2013
I generally use rest areas for an overnight stop and move on. Boy do I appreciate them being there though. I think the ones in Qld are a bit more comfortable and in some nicer places. I hope to see a few of them.
Interesting observation, I feel sorry for those trying to run a business (CP) but hopefully lobbying to close the free spots isn't the best answer.
Rip and Rosie said
09:12 PM Jun 11, 2013
jetj wrote:
......................................
Interesting observation, I feel sorry for those trying to run a business (CP) but hopefully lobbying to close the free spots isn't the best answer.
Yes, as do I, but in business you need to know your market and be prepared to pitch what the market wants.
In the current market, many people are clearly saying to the CP industry "You don't have what I want".
Kantiki said
11:03 PM Jun 11, 2013
GaryKelly wrote:
Interesting survey, John, and thanks for posting it. It's certainly an eye opener and makes you think twice about the problems faced by CP owners, caused by low cost alternatives. I'm wondering how many of the campers using the freebies could afford a CP but choose the freebie because they're cheapskates - rather like wealthy families getting their groceries free from Vinnies even though they can afford to shop at the supermarket. Maybe there should be some sort of means test to use the freebies - like showing a pension card - but I suppose that would involve a bureaucratic nightmare and be unworkable.
I'm not sure what the answer is either, but I do know one thing... if the freebies keep attracting campers who could easily afford to stay at a CP, pretty soon the freebies will disappear and make it impossible for pensioners like me to travel anywhere. Another case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
Hi Gary, I always enjoy your posts, and your blog, and usually agree with what you say. However today I do not. I am not a cheapskate and I prefer camping away from CPs unless it is absolutley neccessary, for instance on the coast. I work part time and and because I have a younger husband, it will be many years before I will qualify for a pension as he will still be earning an income for many years after I have reached retirment age. We have a comfy but not flash van which is self contained. We do not use all the fancy bits that CPs provide and I prefer a bit more space around me, not listening to next doors noises. We like to drive a short distance and enjoy the bush as often as we can, if we had to drive to a CP it would certainly restrict our breaks away. Like a lot of people, we have had illnesses and dissapointments and set backs. The one thing that keeps me sane is being in my van, even if only for 48 hours.
As for rich people getting freebies from the charities, I work in welfare and it is not like that where I am. People come to my office for assistance. They have to visit 3 charities and show they have been unable to help them, and get a statement from Centrelink to show their payments, and a recent bank statement. Then maybe we can offer some short term assistance. This funding will be drying up in the future as the govt tightens its belt and cuts it workforce. Possibly including me.
I usually avoid commenting on the CP versus "free camping debate" but today, well why not. My husband and I spent many years as scout leaders, teaching the kids, among other things, the joys of camping. Our sons love to be in the bush and given time constraints of sports etc, my grandchildren are also getting a taste of the outdoors. I hope its not something that will be lost in the future. That would be such a shame.
Lets hope we can all enjoy our precious free time, or retirement if we are lucky enough to get one, in safe and healthy ways of our own choosing, not dictated to by someone else.
cheers
Safe travels everyone.
Golddetectornomad said
12:04 AM Jun 12, 2013
Well said Kantiki...as the Yanks would say you have Attitude....bush craft, camping,..in other words self reliance, are skills that serve us all well and quite often foisted upon us with little notice...e.g. natural disasters..as GN travellers, just to at least feel comfortable in your Bush surroundings can make all the difference.....even your very survival... Not long ago I was prospecting in the Golden Triangle and broke the cardinal prospecting rule by not taking my self contained Camelbac backpack with me which contained my Backtracker GPS indicating my exact vehicle location.. as I was only going to check out the next gully from my vehicle...head down bum up, and finding a few small bits one gully turned into more than a few gullys...and I had not adjusted my watch with daylight saving, losing a vital hour I thought I had of twilight...surrounded by deep mines and diggings, mullick heaps I quickly realized my plight as every gully suddenly looked the same in the dwindling light.....its amazing how quick Orb spiders build their webs across trees and place themselves in the middle where one is trying to walk/stumble through...hordes of mozzies suddenly descend on your back uncannily at the very spot you cant reach them....no water...no torch, no UHF...no lighter..all in my backpack I did not bring...no telephone coverage...no thanks to Telstra.... I found a Billabong with brackish water..but it was water...you suddenly also become aware that snakes like to frequent around/in Billabongs as I settled down for the night as the only option I had.. hearing noises one never hears when you are walking along confidently in the Bush during daylight...gold bits you cant eat are useless...as is my state of the art metal detector..warmish night so I did not freeze...was my only win...kept convincing my self that its only the female mozzies that were biting me.......never really slept but dozed off lightly only to wake and remember I wasn't in my Caravan.. but at least I felt reasonably comfortable in the surroundings per se that I spend so much time in during daylight hours..just not that particular area I had chosen to prospect.. ...wont bore you further how I got out of my predicament next day, suffice to say I did...and yes I did think during the night about taking up Golf as my new Hobby might be wise..... After the above experience, Independent Camping in a fully self contained Caravan with sola power and Geni and a stocked fridge.. is like staying at the Hilton..wouldn't be dead for quids...Hoo Roo.
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Wednesday 12th of June 2013 12:25:38 AM
GaryKelly said
12:12 AM Jun 12, 2013
I think there's a distinction between bush camping and free camping, Kantiki. Judging by what I read on these forums, free camps are those close to town and more like stopovers as opposed to longer term camping. But I may be wrong about that. In any case, I wasn't referring to bush camping in what I wrote previously. As to well-off peeps getting groceries from welfare, I'm not suggesting that happens... I was using it as a hypothetical example.
barrie said
01:52 AM Jun 12, 2013
Now the mining is on a downturn those CP owners will be chasing the GN again to stay alive
jimbo said
02:25 AM Jun 12, 2013
WEll we know what ot say when their prices tumble
herbie said
04:02 AM Jun 12, 2013
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
[posted on another thread ... but thought I would give it a life of its own. I apologise in advance for using that useless phrase "free camping"]
Many know me and may remember my lifestyle is usually to "free camp" (hate those two words together). However, a bit of my recent history.
Gin Gin QLD - showgrounds. stayed 9 days. About 7 to 10 vans each night. Local van park less than half full.
Eidsvold QLD - van park. stayed 12 days. Except for one of those nights, I was the only van there. At the "free" camp just out of town each afternoon there were between 4 and 7 vans.
Biloela QLD - van park. stayed 2 nights. park was less than half full and the majority stayed only overnight.
Duaringa QLDÂ "free" camp - I lunched only. There would have been at least 40 vans there.
Bedford Weir QLD - "free" camp - it was chockers ... at least 80 vans. Had trouble finding a spot. I have stayed there before and enjoyed it - not this time as it was worse than staying in a van park. It was claustrophobic. Only stayed overnight.
Emerald QLD - lunched at the info centre. On the way through the "free" camp at Botanical Gardens, under the bridge, had at least 12 vans/vehicles/tents(yes tents) even all up along the fence to the roundabout ... and this was still at lunchtime. Talking to the bloke in the info centre about van parks and the "free" camp and he believes the van parks are struggling to get half occupancy even during this peak season.
Sapphire QLD - drove through on the way to Rubyvale. Van park looked about half full - "free" camp" had 7 very crowded in vans.
Rubyvale QLD - in the van park. I booked because I had always heard this place is full and buzzing with GNs. Been here 2 nights and the park is less than half full (about 7 vans). I don't know where the crowds of GNs I heard usually frequent this area, but they ain't at Rubyvale it would appear.
The moral of this story is that there are still many GNs on the road and the "free" camps are attracting a lot of 'business' and it does seem to be at the expense (sorry about that word) of the van parks.
I do not know the solution, but this trip has made me rethink this whole "van park/"free camping" thing. This short, recent scenario above would indicate van parks are definitely not getting their share of the market. There are a myriad of reasons for sure, not the least that they charge too much (?) and provide services we don't want.
I do know that the general travelling public (GNs?) seem to put up with being overcrowded, with little facility, at a "rest area" they love to call a camping spot, and get it at the cost of the local ratepayers ... but will not shell out a $ to stay in a van park where at least they can have a bit more space, facilities - and given the size of most van parks - fewer neighbours.
Again, I don't know the solution but I know I find this so-called 'camping' at rest areas far too off-putting.
Cheers - John
[edit: just removed those weird  thingies .... where on earth (or cyberspace!) do they come from?]
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 11th of June 2013 08:38:54 AM
Can I ask why you mention in your post why you hate the the use of the two words FREE CAMP ? If you are not paying for it in my mind it is FREE CAMPING !!! But to the local rate payers living in that particular Free Camping area I know it doesn't just happen to appear out of the wide blue yonder it is costed into their over all rate payments.
Esperian said
04:12 AM Jun 12, 2013
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
[posted on another thread ... but thought I would give it a life of its own. I apologise in advance for using that useless phrase "free camping"]
Many know me and may remember my lifestyle is usually to "free camp" (hate those two words together). However, a bit of my recent history.
Gin Gin QLD - showgrounds. stayed 9 days. About 7 to 10 vans each night. Local van park less than half full.
Eidsvold QLD - van park. stayed 12 days. Except for one of those nights, I was the only van there. At the "free" camp just out of town each afternoon there were between 4 and 7 vans.
Biloela QLD - van park. stayed 2 nights. park was less than half full and the majority stayed only overnight.
Duaringa QLDÂ "free" camp - I lunched only. There would have been at least 40 vans there.
Bedford Weir QLD - "free" camp - it was chockers ... at least 80 vans. Had trouble finding a spot. I have stayed there before and enjoyed it - not this time as it was worse than staying in a van park. It was claustrophobic. Only stayed overnight.
Emerald QLD - lunched at the info centre. On the way through the "free" camp at Botanical Gardens, under the bridge, had at least 12 vans/vehicles/tents(yes tents) even all up along the fence to the roundabout ... and this was still at lunchtime. Talking to the bloke in the info centre about van parks and the "free" camp and he believes the van parks are struggling to get half occupancy even during this peak season.
Sapphire QLD - drove through on the way to Rubyvale. Van park looked about half full - "free" camp" had 7 very crowded in vans.
Rubyvale QLD - in the van park. I booked because I had always heard this place is full and buzzing with GNs. Been here 2 nights and the park is less than half full (about 7 vans). I don't know where the crowds of GNs I heard usually frequent this area, but they ain't at Rubyvale it would appear.
The moral of this story is that there are still many GNs on the road and the "free" camps are attracting a lot of 'business' and it does seem to be at the expense (sorry about that word) of the van parks.
I do not know the solution, but this trip has made me rethink this whole "van park/"free camping" thing. This short, recent scenario above would indicate van parks are definitely not getting their share of the market. There are a myriad of reasons for sure, not the least that they charge too much (?) and provide services we don't want.
I do know that the general travelling public (GNs?) seem to put up with being overcrowded, with little facility, at a "rest area" they love to call a camping spot, and get it at the cost of the local ratepayers ... but will not shell out a $ to stay in a van park where at least they can have a bit more space, facilities - and given the size of most van parks - fewer neighbours.
Again, I don't know the solution but I know I find this so-called 'camping' at rest areas far too off-putting.
Cheers - John
[edit: just removed those weird  thingies .... where on earth (or cyberspace!) do they come from?]
Well... I think I do see a great solution: Less greed on the site of van-park operators, and everyone will be happy :) Their prices are Very Often outright atrocious! Simply unaffordable.
No wonder they get no people.
Besides... Just to sleep overnight, having a caravan, I would be a serious money waster going to caravan park. Besides. Way too many are also much too bureaucratic in their attitudes towards the tired traveler- their customer, not their walking wallet, and obligatory payer.... After 8:00 PM, most van-parks are inaccessible. And they complain they get no traveler to stay at their place?! People often get there already after their "Opening Hours"! I myself met often with such attitudes at van-park operators at many places, many, many times over...
I actually often stay at caravan-parks, but I always choose only ones that I can afford. I firmly believe, any service business is for me to use it services, not me for the greedy bureaucratic service business operators. to be used and ripped off by them.
-- Edited by Esperian on Wednesday 12th of June 2013 04:22:15 AM
The dog lady said
04:31 AM Jun 12, 2013
Hmm, food OR camping fees? Which one shall I have this week?
rockylizard said
03:23 PM Jun 12, 2013
herbie wrote:
Can I ask why you mention in your post why you hate the the use of the two words FREE CAMP ? If you are not paying for it in my mind it is FREE CAMPING !!! But to the local rate payers living in that particular Free Camping area I know it doesn't just happen to appear out of the wide blue yonder it is costed into their over all rate payments.
Gday...
Just one of my foibles ... I guess it is the use of the 'new' word - freecamp - that irks me. I simply prefer to be camping ... and camping is away from a town, in a bush area, hopefully on a river, creek, watercourse, dam etc with little or no facilities. This is sometimes 'free' but I do not mind paying a nominal fee for the privilege.
I do try to always get 'value for money' - eg Menindee a couple of years back - National Park had a daily entry fee plus camping fees which worked out to $19 per night - with no facilities except a long-drop loo. The local van park, with power, clean tank water, bore water in the showers, flushing loos, power and right on the bank of Lake Menindee with a few like-minded folk for $16/night won my vote.
Having said that I cannot bring myself to call being crowded into a wayside stop/rest area, within or near a town, on the side of the road, camping.
I do realise it is difficult to find a single word to identify "I parked my van/motorhome/tent on the side of the road in a rest area to sleep and paid no fee".
The fears, and angst, displayed by travellers that 'freecamps' are being closed down are usually regarding the 'rest areas' not the genuine camping areas.
I wish I had taken a photo of the 'freecamp' at the Emerald Botanical Gardens - it would have been a perfect example of why townsfolk are becoming increasingly intolerant of GNs (as an umbrella term) cluttering up their environment. The vans, campervans, motorhomes and tents not just down under the bridge but ALONG THE FENCE right up to the roundabout. Awnings out, generators at the ready, chairs and belongings all laid out ... and clothes lines strung between vans and the fence. It looked like a shanty town. Grotesque springs to mind.
Anyway, it is always good, as others have mentioned, if when it is getting a bit late in the evening to be able to pull into a rest area and sleep. However, these 'freecamp' rest areas are usually full by 3pm so they are not able to be the haven they were intended to be - a rest area for the traveller.
The problem, like so many in our civilised lives, is almost unresolvable as we all have our preferences, likes and dislikes. We all expect different outcomes and memories from our travelling experience and, thankfully we are all not the same - how boring that would be.
I know how I like to travel and will continue to do so, and if the need arises, I will adjust my life to fit any new regulations or reduced opportunities to camp where I would like to. It is a huge, wide, varied and wonderful country. The further inland I get the more I love to travel. Isolation, peace, quiet, relaxation are all so much better away from the coast, big towns, tourist attractions and the major highways.
Cheers - and keep on keeping on with your personal travels - John
jules47 said
03:56 PM Jun 12, 2013
We stayed at a terrific "freecamp" recently, when we arrived there were about 30 or so vans etc parked up - it is a really good spot close to a town, with hot shower available for a fee, etc.
We stayed about three days, and got talking to some of the people who were there - at least two lots told us that this is where they come for their annual holiday every year - (this camp is in QLD) - they come from Victoria!! They stay for weeks - sometimes driving out to see some sites, but quite often just sitting outside their vans, as they have most likely seen everything there is to see in the area, having been coming for quite a few years.
It is not a coastal town, but beside a river, the town economy benefits from their presence I am sure, the town has a supermarket, cafes, hairdresser, post office, hotel, hardware store, and a bowls club, and more - there is also an area where you pay to camp with water and power (reasonably priced).
I suppose what I am saying, is that there are different types of "free" camps - some suitable for one night, or two, to rest up, some where you can set yourself up for longer term camping. I don't like the idea of "free" camping in main streets etc., though we met a couple in Tassy who had been over from NZ for about six months - and had spent only $10 in accommodation in that time! They boasted of having "camped" in main streets in cities - i.e. Elizabeth Street, Melbourne!!!! And it wasn't that they couldn't afford to pay, they just didn't want to!
rockylizard said
04:04 PM Jun 12, 2013
Gday...
That sounds very much like Isisford on the Barcoo River. Been there and if it is the one you refer to, an excellent CAMPING spot. No need for the freecamp title (gawd he's pedantic ain't he?)
There are many such places all over QLD in particular ... and many in inland NSW as well - Gum Bend Lake near Condobolin comes quickly to mind.
No cost but they are camping spots.
cheers - John
jules47 said
04:12 PM Jun 12, 2013
Pedantic you are RL (hahhaha) - that is why I put the inverted commas there, and not Isisford!
Dougwe said
04:44 PM Jun 12, 2013
Ok Jules, spill the beans my friend, even in a PM. PLEASE
jules47 said
04:59 PM Jun 12, 2013
Theodore - Junction Park. No secret - and g'day Doug - hope all is well!
herbie said
07:48 PM Jun 12, 2013
jules47 wrote:
We stayed at a terrific "freecamp" recently, when we arrived there were about 30 or so vans etc parked up - it is a really good spot close to a town, with hot shower available for a fee, etc.
We stayed about three days, and got talking to some of the people who were there - at least two lots told us that this is where they come for their annual holiday every year - (this camp is in QLD) - they come from Victoria!! They stay for weeks - sometimes driving out to see some sites, but quite often just sitting outside their vans, as they have most likely seen everything there is to see in the area, having been coming for quite a few years.
It is not a coastal town, but beside a river, the town economy benefits from their presence I am sure, the town has a supermarket, cafes, hairdresser, post office, hotel, hardware store, and a bowls club, and more - there is also an area where you pay to camp with water and power (reasonably priced).
I suppose what I am saying, is that there are different types of "free" camps - some suitable for one night, or two, to rest up, some where you can set yourself up for longer term camping. I don't like the idea of "free" camping in main streets etc., though we met a couple in Tassy who had been over from NZ for about six months - and had spent only $10 in accommodation in that time! They boasted of having "camped" in main streets in cities - i.e. Elizabeth Street, Melbourne!!!! And it wasn't that they couldn't afford to pay, they just didn't want to!
Hi Jules47, I read with interest your post ,think I have stayed in the very spot your mention ,but what got me was the part regarding the couple from N/Z camping in Elizabeth St Melb, they must have got this pointer from some one their younger x pats ,as I have seen myself whiz bangs parked there at night,but just thought the people who owned them was off at a night club or bar,never for one minute did I realise that they were camped there.These are the type of people who make it bad for the rest of us ,but sadly we all get tared with the one brush. I understand about the bragging rights to not, or how little people for any type of camping while travelling around and that just is not from our O/S visitors ,some people just think they have the right to camp where ever they feel like, this is why the free camps are becoming a thing of the past slowly but surely.
GaryKelly said
12:09 AM Jun 13, 2013
The word free-camping exists for the same reason non-smoker exists. If there were no smokers there would be no non-smokers. If there were no believers there would be no non-believers. If CPs and charges for NPs didn't exist, there'd be no need to use the word free-camping. It was just called camping when I was a kid.
cobberandco said
02:39 AM Jun 13, 2013
Have dogs, so bush camping is desirable. Don't mind paying at the occasional park but simple mathematics of 7 days a week at a park makes it a bit expensive. Also many vans are now completely self sufficient and don't require park facilities. Actually when doing the tourist thing, like to pull into a park early, unhitch and tour the surrounds. Can't do that if the park wants you out at 10am and you don't arrive till late arvo.
herbie said
03:20 AM Jun 13, 2013
I went through Emerald on way up to Longreach on way to Weipa with son and his mate, and also noticed the untidy set up of people camped near the bridge .There was more tents and whiz Bangs than RVs ,but unbelievable the mess scattered all around the area. Clothing hanging over make shift lines from tent to tent. Tables/ chairs/ camp stoves/ esky's just every where.Really is was a disgrace to call one's self a camper. But again I ask why do the local councils let this behaviour to continue ,I feel all us responsible campers would welcome some kind of intervention and to not tolerate this behaviour. But the sad thing is when these grubs get moved on some other area wears the behaviour from the grubs.
hako said
03:47 AM Jun 13, 2013
Golddetectornomad wrote:
Well said Kantiki...as the Yanks would say you have Attitude....bush craft, camping,..in other words self reliance, are skills that serve us all well and quite often foisted upon us with little notice...e.g. natural disasters..as GN travellers, just to at least feel comfortable in your Bush surroundings can make all the difference.....even your very survival.
SNIP .. wouldn't be dead for quids...Hoo Roo.
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Wednesday 12th of June 2013 12:25:38 AM
I can relate to that - your description of your reactions to your predicament parallel mine in very very similar circumstances. I now leave nothing to chance except chance itself.
Bugsy said
04:44 AM Jun 13, 2013
"I wish I had taken a photo of the 'freecamp' at the Emerald Botanical Gardens - it would have been a perfect example of why townsfolk are becoming increasingly intolerant of GNs (as an umbrella term) cluttering up their environment. The vans, campervans, motorhomes and tents not just down under the bridge but ALONG THE FENCE right up to the roundabout. Awnings out, generators at the ready, chairs and belongings all laid out ... and clothes lines strung between vans and the fence. It looked like a shanty town. Grotesque springs to mind."
Just by coincidence I happen to be camped in Emerald tonight and drove past the Emerald Botanical Garden this morning and this afternoon. I would hardly call the site grotesque but it sure is popular. I happen to be in the showgrounds with 30 other motorhomes on safari and booked in for two nights but mostly I prefer to freedom camp when ever possible. I don't feel any guilt by not supporting a caravan park in this town as just today we have spent $25 on supplies, $40 to the show society for camp fees and $790 on two new house batteries and I will have to fill up with fuel $100+ before I can move on further.
The inference that not supporting a caravan park is somehow doing the wrong thing would appear quite erroneous to me, Emerald had done quite well out of me actually, just not in the caravan park this time. Last time I camped here I was in the caravan park which was FULL and they parked us on a piece of undeveloped grass down the back of the park and still charged FULL prices.
If you really want to see how tough the CP industry is just have a look at page 4 of this report https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caravan-camping.com.au%2Ffiles%2Fmedia-kits%2FCCIA-Industry-Profile.pdf
Gday...
[posted on another thread ... but thought I would give it a life of its own. I apologise in advance for using that useless phrase "free camping"]
Many know me and may remember my lifestyle is usually to "free camp" (hate those two words together). However, a bit of my recent history.
Gin Gin QLD - showgrounds. stayed 9 days. About 7 to 10 vans each night. Local van park less than half full.
Eidsvold QLD - van park. stayed 12 days. Except for one of those nights, I was the only van there. At the "free" camp just out of town each afternoon there were between 4 and 7 vans.
Biloela QLD - van park. stayed 2 nights. park was less than half full and the majority stayed only overnight.
Duaringa QLDÂ "free" camp - I lunched only. There would have been at least 40 vans there.
Bedford Weir QLD - "free" camp - it was chockers ... at least 80 vans. Had trouble finding a spot. I have stayed there before and enjoyed it - not this time as it was worse than staying in a van park. It was claustrophobic. Only stayed overnight.
Emerald QLD - lunched at the info centre. On the way through the "free" camp at Botanical Gardens, under the bridge, had at least 12 vans/vehicles/tents(yes tents) even all up along the fence to the roundabout ... and this was still at lunchtime. Talking to the bloke in the info centre about van parks and the "free" camp and he believes the van parks are struggling to get half occupancy even during this peak season.
Sapphire QLD - drove through on the way to Rubyvale. Van park looked about half full - "free" camp" had 7 very crowded in vans.
Rubyvale QLD - in the van park. I booked because I had always heard this place is full and buzzing with GNs. Been here 2 nights and the park is less than half full (about 7 vans). I don't know where the crowds of GNs I heard usually frequent this area, but they ain't at Rubyvale it would appear.
The moral of this story is that there are still many GNs on the road and the "free" camps are attracting a lot of 'business' and it does seem to be at the expense (sorry about that word) of the van parks.
I do not know the solution, but this trip has made me rethink this whole "van park/"free camping" thing. This short, recent scenario above would indicate van parks are definitely not getting their share of the market. There are a myriad of reasons for sure, not the least that they charge too much (?) and provide services we don't want.
I do know that the general travelling public (GNs?) seem to put up with being overcrowded, with little facility, at a "rest area" they love to call a camping spot, and get it at the cost of the local ratepayers ... but will not shell out a $ to stay in a van park where at least they can have a bit more space, facilities - and given the size of most van parks - fewer neighbours.
Again, I don't know the solution but I know I find this so-called 'camping' at rest areas far too off-putting.
Cheers - John
[edit: just removed those weird  thingies .... where on earth (or cyberspace!) do they come from?]
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 11th of June 2013 08:38:54 AM
The "Free-camp" you mentioned had 2 units in when we visited at lunchtime, but more overnight.
I'm not sure what the answer is either, but I do know one thing... if the freebies keep attracting campers who could easily afford to stay at a CP, pretty soon the freebies will disappear and make it impossible for pensioners like me to travel anywhere. Another case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
Very interesting stats there my friend. If you read my weekly updates at all (no update this week) you will notice when actually travelling I tend to share around a bit, some night 'Alternative Camping' (Is that better mate) and van parks. I say 'Alternative' because some have been free and some have been a gold coin donation system. I'm staying put in a 'Alternative' camp for a while in Townsville, I say 'Alternative as I am buying food and a few other things for the family so I am contributing, I also help out with school runs picking the grandkids up.
I too visited that 'free' camp you mentioned in Emerald about two months ago roughly and it was full of vans, motorhomes, wizbangs and yes, tents, so I decided not to add an Avan to the mix and spent the night in a van park just around the corner.
If I could get a van park each night for around $20 I would van park it most of the time. I must say though having said that, I have been lucky with the van parks I have picked and got for around $20 per night. I think only two parks have been over but under $30.
I choose a park from the 'Caravan Parks Australia Wide' book, by the same people that do 'The Bible' and choose ones out of big towns if possible and ones with a 1 $ sign on it. Probably just lucky so far as I read on this forum of bad van parks all the time.
This would probably be the common thoughts of many free campers.
Don't need toilets
Don't need showers
Don't need laundries
Don't need electricity
Don't need water
Don't need TV's, jumping castles, swimming pools, etc, etc, etc.
Security should be the choice of the individual (and by many of the incidents reported I'm not sure how secure some van parks are nowadays)
So! What do self contained nomads get for their $20 and up for when staying in a caravan park?
Maybe if caravan parks had parking spots with no access to amenities for a minimal amount like $10 they might lure more vans.
Cheers
Jon
-- Edited by Hylda&Jon on Tuesday 11th of June 2013 06:52:57 PM
I generally use rest areas for an overnight stop and move on. Boy do I appreciate them being there though. I think the ones in Qld are a bit more comfortable and in some nicer places. I hope to see a few of them.
Interesting observation, I feel sorry for those trying to run a business (CP) but hopefully lobbying to close the free spots isn't the best answer.
Yes, as do I, but in business you need to know your market and be prepared to pitch what the market wants.
In the current market, many people are clearly saying to the CP industry "You don't have what I want".
Hi Gary, I always enjoy your posts, and your blog, and usually agree with what you say. However today I do not. I am not a cheapskate and I prefer camping away from CPs unless it is absolutley neccessary, for instance on the coast. I work part time and and because I have a younger husband, it will be many years before I will qualify for a pension as he will still be earning an income for many years after I have reached retirment age. We have a comfy but not flash van which is self contained. We do not use all the fancy bits that CPs provide and I prefer a bit more space around me, not listening to next doors noises. We like to drive a short distance and enjoy the bush as often as we can, if we had to drive to a CP it would certainly restrict our breaks away. Like a lot of people, we have had illnesses and dissapointments and set backs. The one thing that keeps me sane is being in my van, even if only for 48 hours.
As for rich people getting freebies from the charities, I work in welfare and it is not like that where I am. People come to my office for assistance. They have to visit 3 charities and show they have been unable to help them, and get a statement from Centrelink to show their payments, and a recent bank statement. Then maybe we can offer some short term assistance. This funding will be drying up in the future as the govt tightens its belt and cuts it workforce. Possibly including me.
I usually avoid commenting on the CP versus "free camping debate" but today, well why not. My husband and I spent many years as scout leaders, teaching the kids, among other things, the joys of camping. Our sons love to be in the bush and given time constraints of sports etc, my grandchildren are also getting a taste of the outdoors. I hope its not something that will be lost in the future. That would be such a shame.
Lets hope we can all enjoy our precious free time, or retirement if we are lucky enough to get one, in safe and healthy ways of our own choosing, not dictated to by someone else.
cheers
Safe travels everyone.
Well said Kantiki...as the Yanks would say you have Attitude....bush craft, camping,..in other words self reliance, are skills that serve us all well and quite often foisted upon us with little notice...e.g. natural disasters..as GN travellers, just to at least feel comfortable in your Bush surroundings can make all the difference.....even your very survival...
Not long ago I was prospecting in the Golden Triangle and broke the cardinal prospecting rule by not taking my self contained Camelbac backpack with me which contained my Backtracker GPS indicating my exact vehicle location.. as I was only going to check out the next gully from my vehicle...head down bum up, and finding a few small bits one gully turned into more than a few gullys...and I had not adjusted my watch with daylight saving, losing a vital hour I thought I had of twilight...surrounded by deep mines and diggings, mullick heaps I quickly realized my plight as every gully suddenly looked the same in the dwindling light.....its amazing how quick Orb spiders build their webs across trees and place themselves in the middle where one is trying to walk/stumble through...hordes of mozzies suddenly descend on your back uncannily at the very spot you cant reach them....no water...no torch, no UHF...no lighter..all in my backpack I did not bring...no telephone coverage...no thanks to Telstra.... I found a Billabong with brackish water..but it was water...you suddenly also become aware that snakes like to frequent around/in Billabongs as I settled down for the night as the only option I had.. hearing noises one never hears when you are walking along confidently in the Bush during daylight...gold bits you cant eat are useless...as is my state of the art metal detector..warmish night so I did not freeze...was my only win...kept convincing my self that its only the female mozzies that were biting me.......never really slept but dozed off lightly only to wake and remember I wasn't in my Caravan.. but at least I felt reasonably comfortable in the surroundings per se that I spend so much time in during daylight hours..just not that particular area I had chosen to prospect..
...wont bore you further how I got out of my predicament next day, suffice to say I did...and yes I did think during the night about taking up Golf as my new Hobby might be wise.....
After the above experience, Independent Camping in a fully self contained Caravan with sola power and Geni and a stocked fridge.. is like staying at the Hilton..wouldn't be dead for quids...Hoo Roo.
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Wednesday 12th of June 2013 12:25:38 AM
WEll we know what ot say when their prices tumble
Well... I think I do see a great solution: Less greed on the site of van-park operators, and everyone will be happy :) Their prices are Very Often outright atrocious! Simply unaffordable.
No wonder they get no people.
Besides... Just to sleep overnight, having a caravan, I would be a serious money waster going to caravan park. Besides. Way too many are also much too bureaucratic in their attitudes towards the tired traveler- their customer, not their walking wallet, and obligatory payer.... After 8:00 PM, most van-parks are inaccessible. And they complain they get no traveler to stay at their place?! People often get there already after their "Opening Hours"! I myself met often with such attitudes at van-park operators at many places, many, many times over...
I actually often stay at caravan-parks, but I always choose only ones that I can afford. I firmly believe, any service business is for me to use it services, not me for the greedy bureaucratic service business operators. to be used and ripped off by them.
-- Edited by Esperian on Wednesday 12th of June 2013 04:22:15 AM
Hmm, food OR camping fees? Which one shall I have this week?
Gday...
Just one of my foibles ... I guess it is the use of the 'new' word - freecamp - that irks me. I simply prefer to be camping ... and camping is away from a town, in a bush area, hopefully on a river, creek, watercourse, dam etc with little or no facilities. This is sometimes 'free' but I do not mind paying a nominal fee for the privilege.
I do try to always get 'value for money' - eg Menindee a couple of years back - National Park had a daily entry fee plus camping fees which worked out to $19 per night - with no facilities except a long-drop loo. The local van park, with power, clean tank water, bore water in the showers, flushing loos, power and right on the bank of Lake Menindee with a few like-minded folk for $16/night won my vote.
Having said that I cannot bring myself to call being crowded into a wayside stop/rest area, within or near a town, on the side of the road, camping.
I do realise it is difficult to find a single word to identify "I parked my van/motorhome/tent on the side of the road in a rest area to sleep and paid no fee".
The fears, and angst, displayed by travellers that 'freecamps' are being closed down are usually regarding the 'rest areas' not the genuine camping areas.
I wish I had taken a photo of the 'freecamp' at the Emerald Botanical Gardens - it would have been a perfect example of why townsfolk are becoming increasingly intolerant of GNs (as an umbrella term) cluttering up their environment. The vans, campervans, motorhomes and tents not just down under the bridge but ALONG THE FENCE right up to the roundabout. Awnings out, generators at the ready, chairs and belongings all laid out ... and clothes lines strung between vans and the fence. It looked like a shanty town. Grotesque springs to mind.
Anyway, it is always good, as others have mentioned, if when it is getting a bit late in the evening to be able to pull into a rest area and sleep. However, these 'freecamp' rest areas are usually full by 3pm so they are not able to be the haven they were intended to be - a rest area for the traveller.
The problem, like so many in our civilised lives, is almost unresolvable as we all have our preferences, likes and dislikes. We all expect different outcomes and memories from our travelling experience and, thankfully we are all not the same - how boring that would be.
I know how I like to travel and will continue to do so, and if the need arises, I will adjust my life to fit any new regulations or reduced opportunities to camp where I would like to. It is a huge, wide, varied and wonderful country. The further inland I get the more I love to travel. Isolation, peace, quiet, relaxation are all so much better away from the coast, big towns, tourist attractions and the major highways.
Cheers - and keep on keeping on with your personal travels - John
We stayed about three days, and got talking to some of the people who were there - at least two lots told us that this is where they come for their annual holiday every year - (this camp is in QLD) - they come from Victoria!! They stay for weeks - sometimes driving out to see some sites, but quite often just sitting outside their vans, as they have most likely seen everything there is to see in the area, having been coming for quite a few years.
It is not a coastal town, but beside a river, the town economy benefits from their presence I am sure, the town has a supermarket, cafes, hairdresser, post office, hotel, hardware store, and a bowls club, and more - there is also an area where you pay to camp with water and power (reasonably priced).
I suppose what I am saying, is that there are different types of "free" camps - some suitable for one night, or two, to rest up, some where you can set yourself up for longer term camping. I don't like the idea of "free" camping in main streets etc., though we met a couple in Tassy who had been over from NZ for about six months - and had spent only $10 in accommodation in that time! They boasted of having "camped" in main streets in cities - i.e. Elizabeth Street, Melbourne!!!! And it wasn't that they couldn't afford to pay, they just didn't want to!
Gday...
That sounds very much like Isisford on the Barcoo River. Been there and if it is the one you refer to, an excellent CAMPING spot. No need for the freecamp title (gawd he's pedantic ain't he?)
There are many such places all over QLD in particular ... and many in inland NSW as well - Gum Bend Lake near Condobolin comes quickly to mind.
No cost but they are camping spots.
cheers - John
Pedantic you are RL (
hahhaha) - that is why I put the inverted commas there, and not Isisford!
Hi Jules47, I read with interest your post ,think I have stayed in the very spot your mention ,but what got me was the part regarding the couple from N/Z camping in Elizabeth St Melb, they must have got this pointer from some one their younger x pats ,as I have seen myself whiz bangs parked there at night,but just thought the people who owned them was off at a night club or bar,never for one minute did I realise that they were camped there.These are the type of people who make it bad for the rest of us ,but sadly we all get tared with the one brush. I understand about the bragging rights to not, or how little people for any type of camping while travelling around and that just is not from our O/S visitors ,some people just think they have the right to camp where ever they feel like, this is why the free camps are becoming a thing of the past slowly but surely.
I went through Emerald on way up to Longreach on way to Weipa with son and his mate, and also noticed the untidy set up of people camped near the bridge .There was more tents and whiz Bangs than RVs ,but unbelievable the mess scattered all around the area. Clothing hanging over make shift lines from tent to tent. Tables/ chairs/ camp stoves/ esky's just every where.Really is was a disgrace to call one's self a camper. But again I ask why do the local councils let this behaviour to continue ,I feel all us responsible campers would welcome some kind of intervention and to not tolerate this behaviour. But the sad thing is when these grubs get moved on some other area wears the behaviour from the grubs.
I can relate to that - your description of your reactions to your predicament parallel mine in very very similar circumstances. I now leave nothing to chance except chance itself.
Just by coincidence I happen to be camped in Emerald tonight and drove past the Emerald Botanical Garden this morning and this afternoon. I would hardly call the site grotesque but it sure is popular. I happen to be in the showgrounds with 30 other motorhomes on safari and booked in for two nights but mostly I prefer to freedom camp when ever possible. I don't feel any guilt by not supporting a caravan park in this town as just today we have spent $25 on supplies, $40 to the show society for camp fees and $790 on two new house batteries and I will have to fill up with fuel $100+ before I can move on further.
The inference that not supporting a caravan park is somehow doing the wrong thing would appear quite erroneous to me, Emerald had done quite well out of me actually, just not in the caravan park this time. Last time I camped here I was in the caravan park which was FULL and they parked us on a piece of undeveloped grass down the back of the park and still charged FULL prices.
If you really want to see how tough the CP industry is just have a look at page 4 of this report https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caravan-camping.com.au%2Ffiles%2Fmedia-kits%2FCCIA-Industry-Profile.pdf
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caravan-camping.com.au%2Ffiles%2Fmedia-kits%2FCCIA-Industry-Profile.pdf