I was reading an article regarding hot water systems in in all RVs and it even covered the black bags that heat from the sun(solar)
It reads that because water heaters in RVs do not reach to the 60c recommended to kill the bacteria.Gas has a limit on the amount it can raise the temp during the time it flows through the HWS.I already knew that water naturally turns stale and acidic when trapped between 1/14 days, depending on the current climate conditions.The article recommending that to drain and flush,tank and pipes if not used for a few days.But this would be impossible to do while on the road, so what do other travellers do to over come this problem.Recomended also to run showers with straight hot water if using public showers in caravan parks before getting under to shower.They strongly advise against not to ever use the black solar bags if hanging from a tree or other place,as it increases the risk allowing the Legionella bacteria to grow
jetj said
06:07 AM Jun 13, 2013
While I think the article is pretty right about the risk, I also think that most healthy people are not really susceptible enough to Legionnaires to lose much sleep over it. A healthy immune system should deal quite adequately with the bacteria hopefully. By all means correct me if I'm wrong.
Mark said
06:19 AM Jun 13, 2013
Interesting post Herbie.
Well, personally I never drink the water that comes directly into the caravan, we have a tank purely for drinking which has a two stage filter/purifier system. (yes filled from standpipes but filtered and purified before drinking)
The shower water off of the hot water tank, never been tempted to drink any of it, and when it comes to rinsing after a brush of the gnashers, excuse the expression, but I spit and don't swallow
Water tanks are drained when not in use and I run a de-algie tablet through them and if I fill them for bush use then they get steri-tabed just in case I happen to get a bit in my mouth. If we are going bush I always make sure that the 90 litre drinking water (seperate tank) is full, plus we carry about 40 litres of emergency rations in gerry's.
But equally, I also agree that we should ingest some bacteria as jeti says.
That's my waterworks discussed
jetj said
06:28 AM Jun 13, 2013
Mark I could be wrong again but I think it's breathing the spores rather than drinking the bacteria is the problem.
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:25 AM Jun 13, 2013
jetj wrote:
Mark I could be wrong again but I think it's breathing the spores rather than drinking the bacteria is the problem.
Correct, but in a shower that is exactly what happens, they are breathed into the lungs.
Chlorinate all water in your tanks (to kill any bugs) and don't keep water warm (breeding rates are very high in warm water). Hot or cold is best.
Cheers,
Peter
Yuglamron said
07:08 PM Jun 13, 2013
My RV hot water system runs to 70 degrees so should be adequate, apart from which I filter with a half micron filter and treat All the water going into my tanks with a colloidal silver additive as well.
Sounds like it's some bloody pencil pusher saving money without having the knowledge to actually know the pitfalls, that ordered the water heating in the hospital to be reduced to 50 degrees
No doubt they will be taken to court for compensation which will take money from where it's needed. Actual patient care.
The doctors and nurses who do tremendous work are not at fault, it's the bloody administration yet again.
herbie said
08:55 PM Jun 13, 2013
I have two water filters fitted to my van one out side and one connected to the water over the sink.But from what I have been reading this alone does not stop the bacteria from building up inside water tanks /pipes /shower heads/taps/even the hoses can contain the bacteria.I have been reading about a product called Floe that appears to be the bees knees ,was wondering has anyone on here heard or used this product.And yes the way Legionnaires is contracted is from breathing in the air containing the bacteria.
herbie said
09:40 PM Jun 13, 2013
jetj wrote:
While I think the article is pretty right about the risk, I also think that most healthy people are not really susceptible enough to Legionnaires to lose much sleep over it. A healthy immune system should deal quite adequately with the bacteria hopefully. By all means correct me if I'm wrong.
I agree in what you say in part regarding most healthy people are not susceptible enough to catching Legionnaires Disease,but than healthy people have contracted it from shopping centre air conditioning ,and a lot of people who travel the RV life style are in the high risk age bracket and do have health issues in one form or another. It is not just Legionnaires Disease contracted from trapped potable water it is also E- Coli as well.
D and D said
10:23 PM Jun 13, 2013
Yuglamron wrote:
My RV hot water system runs to 70 degrees so should be adequate, apart from which I filter with a half micron filter and treat All the water going into my tanks with a colloidal silver additive as well.
Sounds like it's some bloody pencil pusher saving money without having the knowledge to actually know the pitfalls, that ordered the water heating in the hospital to be reduced to 50 degrees
No doubt they will be taken to court for compensation which will take money from where it's needed. Actual patient care.
The doctors and nurses who do tremendous work are not at fault, it's the bloody administration yet again.
The reason hot water is regulated to be below 50 degrees C is to prevent scalds and there is a far greater risk of being scalded with tap water above 50 degrees than there is of contracting legionella. And this would apply even more to aged care facilities and hospitals. Temperature is not the only nor the best means of controlling legionella bacterium. The breeding temperatures are between a range of 30 and 60 degrees so one could as easily control the bug by chilling the water and having cold showers. And since a shower at 60 degrees would scald you, chilling would seem to be a better option if you're going to rely on water temperature as a control. Biocides, filtration, water system cleaning and maintenance and other processes are far better ways of preventing a build up of the bacterium to cronic levels.
The hot water system you're running would certainly protect you from the legionella bacterium but the risk of being scalded by a hot water system operating at 70 degrees is pretty high and not something I would be risking. I would also be checking what plumbing was installed in the RV as many plastics and the glues used to bond them begin to degrade at far lower temperatures.
Regards
Mr D
herbie said
11:19 PM Jun 13, 2013
Hello Roving- Dutchy, what I read regarding the person with his hot water set at 70c was that was what the temp was when it came through the tap or shower, but rereading the post it might be as you say.( must check what mine is set at when I return back)
Regards Herbie.
-- Edited by herbie on Thursday 13th of June 2013 11:20:35 PM
moamajohn said
01:36 AM Jun 14, 2013
For what its worth .I have been involved in Industrial Plumbing for nearly half a century,to date I have never Known this disease to surface from a domestic scource.Invariably it is associated with industrial cooling towers . Our trade newsletters keep us up to speed with the points of source and I have never heard of it to arise from anything other than commercial or industrial .
wazzawiseone said
02:40 AM Jun 14, 2013
Hello Peter
I am interested in Chlorinating our water tanks as you really do not know the standard of the water you are putting in.
How do you do it ?. Tablets, liquids?
How often ?
No real issues so far but always looking out to improve safety as you advance in years.
Cheers
Plendo said
02:44 AM Jun 14, 2013
The water filters we use to protect us can and do become breading grounds for nasty little monsters.
What do people do to clean their water filters?
How often do you clean/replace your filters?
Geoff n Jen said
02:44 AM Jun 14, 2013
What an interesting post makes you think.
Cupie said
02:47 AM Jun 14, 2013
moamajohn wrote:
For what its worth. I have been involved in Industrial Plumbing for nearly half a century,to date I have never known this disease to surface from a domestic source. Invariably it is associated with industrial cooling towers. Our trade newsletters keep us up to speed with the points of source and I have never heard of it to arise from anything other than commercial or industrial .
I'm with you ... Just another scare that we needn't worry about.
Just like the risk to the general public from the Telstra pits during the NBN rollout. It too is a non event.
But the media will beat them up for all they're worth & get us all worrying ... for a couple of days until they move on to the next imagined disaster.
herbie said
03:29 AM Jun 14, 2013
I would not be game to let a hot water system in any type of motor home or caravan or bus run at a temp as high as 70c ,for all the reasons posted below. All from what I have read they are all designed to run at around 50c .Even in a domestic hot water service it would be dangerous to have the hot water cylinder set at 70c.
herbie said
03:37 AM Jun 14, 2013
Cupie wrote:
moamajohn wrote:
For what its worth. I have been involved in Industrial Plumbing for nearly half a century,to date I have never known this disease to surface from a domestic source. Invariably it is associated with industrial cooling towers. Our trade newsletters keep us up to speed with the points of source and I have never heard of it to arise from anything other than commercial or industrial .
I'm with you ... Just another scare that we needn't worry about.
Just like the risk to the general public from the Telstra pits during the NBN rollout. It too is a non event.
But the media will beat them up for all they're worth & get us all worrying ... for a couple of days until they move on to the next imagined disaster.
The reason I posted the question regarding the topic re Legionnaires Disease in RVs is that I was reading some emails re from my place of work regarding the out brake of the disease ( and the procedures that are going to take place in our work inviro ) and the World Health Organization had RVs of all types were on their list. Plus c/van parks.
Roving-Dutchy said
03:45 AM Jun 14, 2013
Most new HWS run at at least 70c and then must have a tempering valve that uses cold water to bring the temperature of the water down to a temperature that will not cause a bad scald, as you will remove yourself from the water before a you are scalded, These days the media calls wolf so often, that they are now mostly treated with the contempt they deserve. Cheers David
I was reading an article regarding hot water systems in in all RVs and it even covered the black bags that heat from the sun(solar)
It reads that because water heaters in RVs do not reach to the 60c recommended to kill the bacteria.Gas has a limit on the amount it can raise the temp during the time it flows through the HWS.I already knew that water naturally turns stale and acidic when trapped between 1/14 days, depending on the current climate conditions.The article recommending that to drain and flush,tank and pipes if not used for a few days.But this would be impossible to do while on the road, so what do other travellers do to over come this problem.Recomended also to run showers with straight hot water if using public showers in caravan parks before getting under to shower.They strongly advise against not to ever use the black solar bags if hanging from a tree or other place,as it increases the risk allowing the Legionella bacteria to grow
While I think the article is pretty right about the risk, I also think that most healthy people are not really susceptible enough to Legionnaires to lose much sleep over it. A healthy immune system should deal quite adequately with the bacteria hopefully. By all means correct me if I'm wrong.
Interesting post Herbie.
Well, personally I never drink the water that comes directly into the caravan, we have a tank purely for drinking which has a two stage filter/purifier system. (yes filled from standpipes but filtered and purified before drinking)
The shower water off of the hot water tank, never been tempted to drink any of it, and when it comes to rinsing after a brush of the gnashers, excuse the expression, but I spit and don't swallow
Water tanks are drained when not in use and I run a de-algie tablet through them and if I fill them for bush use then they get steri-tabed just in case I happen to get a bit in my mouth.
If we are going bush I always make sure that the 90 litre drinking water (seperate tank) is full, plus we carry about 40 litres of emergency rations in gerry's.
But equally, I also agree that we should ingest some bacteria as jeti says.
That's my waterworks discussed
Mark I could be wrong again but I think it's breathing the spores rather than drinking the bacteria is the problem.
Correct, but in a shower that is exactly what happens, they are breathed into the lungs.
Chlorinate all water in your tanks (to kill any bugs) and don't keep water warm (breeding rates are very high in warm water). Hot or cold is best.
Cheers,
Peter
My RV hot water system runs to 70 degrees so should be adequate, apart from which I filter with a half micron filter and treat All the water going into my tanks with a colloidal silver additive as well.
Sounds like it's some bloody pencil pusher saving money without having the knowledge to actually know the pitfalls, that ordered the water heating in the hospital to be reduced to 50 degrees
No doubt they will be taken to court for compensation which will take money from where it's needed. Actual patient care.
The doctors and nurses who do tremendous work are not at fault, it's the bloody administration yet again.
I have two water filters fitted to my van one out side and one connected to the water over the sink.But from what I have been reading this alone does not stop the bacteria from building up inside water tanks /pipes /shower heads/taps/even the hoses can contain the bacteria.I have been reading about a product called Floe that appears to be the bees knees ,was wondering has anyone on here heard or used this product.And yes the way Legionnaires is contracted is from breathing in the air containing the bacteria.
I agree in what you say in part regarding most healthy people are not susceptible enough to catching Legionnaires Disease,but than healthy people have contracted it from shopping centre air conditioning ,and a lot of people who travel the RV life style are in the high risk age bracket and do have health issues in one form or another. It is not just Legionnaires Disease contracted from trapped potable water it is also E- Coli as well.
The reason hot water is regulated to be below 50 degrees C is to prevent scalds and there is a far greater risk of being scalded with tap water above 50 degrees than there is of contracting legionella. And this would apply even more to aged care facilities and hospitals. Temperature is not the only nor the best means of controlling legionella bacterium. The breeding temperatures are between a range of 30 and 60 degrees so one could as easily control the bug by chilling the water and having cold showers. And since a shower at 60 degrees would scald you, chilling would seem to be a better option if you're going to rely on water temperature as a control. Biocides, filtration, water system cleaning and maintenance and other processes are far better ways of preventing a build up of the bacterium to cronic levels.
The hot water system you're running would certainly protect you from the legionella bacterium but the risk of being scalded by a hot water system operating at 70 degrees is pretty high and not something I would be risking. I would also be checking what plumbing was installed in the RV as many plastics and the glues used to bond them begin to degrade at far lower temperatures.
Regards
Mr D
Hello Roving- Dutchy, what I read regarding the person with his hot water set at 70c was that was what the temp was when it came through the tap or shower, but rereading the post it might be as you say.( must check what mine is set at when I return back)
Regards Herbie.
-- Edited by herbie on Thursday 13th of June 2013 11:20:35 PM
Our trade newsletters keep us up to speed with the points of source and I have never heard of it to arise from anything other than commercial or industrial .
I am interested in Chlorinating our water tanks as you really do not know the standard of the water you are putting in.
How do you do it ?. Tablets, liquids?
How often ?
No real issues so far but always looking out to improve safety as you advance in years.
Cheers
The water filters we use to protect us can and do become breading grounds for nasty little monsters.
What do people do to clean their water filters?
How often do you clean/replace your filters?
I'm with you ... Just another scare that we needn't worry about.
Just like the risk to the general public from the Telstra pits during the NBN rollout. It too is a non event.
But the media will beat them up for all they're worth & get us all worrying ... for a couple of days until they move on to the next imagined disaster.
I would not be game to let a hot water system in any type of motor home or caravan or bus run at a temp as high as 70c ,for all the reasons posted below. All from what I have read they are all designed to run at around 50c .Even in a domestic hot water service it would be dangerous to have the hot water cylinder set at 70c.
The reason I posted the question regarding the topic re Legionnaires Disease in RVs is that I was reading some emails re from my place of work regarding the out brake of the disease ( and the procedures that are going to take place in our work inviro ) and the World Health Organization had RVs of all types were on their list. Plus c/van parks.
Most new HWS run at at least 70c and then must have a tempering valve that uses cold water to bring the temperature of the water down to a temperature that will not cause a bad scald, as you will remove yourself from the water before a you are scalded,
These days the media calls wolf so often, that they are now mostly treated with the contempt they deserve.
Cheers
David