While self certification is a complete and utter disaster at least there are calls to remedy the situation.
Colin Young the principle of the CCA (Caravan Council of Australia) is lobbying the authorities to scrap self certification and the RVMA (Recreational Vehicle Manufacturers of Australia) have introduced inspection o0f their member manufactures for compliance. While the RVMA inspections are not legally binding they are having an effect of a few manufactures who have lifted their act after faults were identified and others who with the threat of suspension or expulsion have been forced to improve their compliance. However the majority of RV's built in Australia are built by non members of the RVMA.
But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for someone or some government department to scrap it and introduce a legally binding compliance inspections system anytime in the foreseeable future. And while industry wide compliance with the regulations would be fantastic it would not in itself improve quality of overall construction or finish. Ozjohn
-- Edited by ozjohn on Tuesday 16th of July 2013 09:56:54 PM
herbie said
12:06 AM Jul 17, 2013
I was reading with interest a article on the scraping of self certification of caravan & camper trailers in Oz.
CMA,the independent caravan council of Oz has called for the current system which allows manufacturers to self certify their new caravans & camper trailers to be abolished as the unsupervised practice is resulting in death trap RVs being allowed on to Oz roads,
It went on to say the image of the C/v industry has been tarnished by dishonourable quick buck merchants.
Many problems with the current system regarding selling and promoting of RVs is with serious unprofessional & unethical/illegal activities
In many cases in information provided on the plate was not correct and /or fully complete-especially in relation to wheels/tyres and inflation pressures.
The use of self certification has allowed uninformed and/or unethical parties to market C/V & camping trailers when they have serious &even potentially lethal non-compliances.
Under the current certification Oz caravan manufacturers & importers are allowed to self- certify RVs under 4.5 tonnes.
Would be interested to hear other forum members view on this .
I feel this is change of self certification is well over due and should have been in force a long time ago.
Just have to read some of the horror stories regarding gas out let ventilation for one.
herbie said
12:33 AM Jul 17, 2013
MONEY TALKS ''''so I can only see all this for the better of the consumer in the long run.If compliance costs a little more then very often it becomes a very much bastardized part of the process.
One only has to spend some time in a RV work shop to see the number of seriously non-compliant and often AC.electricial installations out there.The lack of regulations and governance of quality control applies to the assembly process as well.I believe the purchaser would be prepared to a little more to gain the certainty that his/her product was built to a written standard and certified by a qualified body.
Prices may well be reduced under a stricter regime due to the fact it would weed out the rogues in the industry and find it harder to operate, so in turn the field would become rationalised and more efficient and a lot of foreign built units would flood the market, due to lower over heads further forcing local industry to become more competitive,as up until recently they have had it all their own way.
At the moment there is no codes for 24/12 volt wiring nor even remotely for quality construction.
-- Edited by herbie on Wednesday 17th of July 2013 12:35:54 AM
Roving-Dutchy said
12:45 AM Jul 17, 2013
Just who are CMA I can find no reference to them on Google.
Cheers
David
Wombat 280 said
01:36 AM Jul 17, 2013
High time they scraped the self certification some real shonk manufactures out there , although needed watch the new pricing reflect the change
Dougwe said
02:27 AM Jul 17, 2013
I think you will find CMA will be 'Caravan Manufacturers Australia' , David
herbie said
02:52 AM Jul 17, 2013
Dougwe wrote:
I think you will find CMA will be 'Caravan Manufacturers Australia' , David
CMA..is Caravan Manufacturers Australia.
Plendo said
03:02 AM Jul 17, 2013
Self certification is an admirable objective, and if the industry was full of honest people it would not be a problem, and for the vast majority of manufacturers this appears to be true. Have a look at the caravan and motor home related forums there are people who complain about having problems, then in the next post talk about how well the manufacturer or the dealer fixed the problem. Yes there are also a few (when compared to teh number of vans sold) tales of real problems, and manufacturers who have genuinely let people down.
I suspect if the CMA is behind a move the limit or remove self certification it is an attempt to remove a number of highly visible caravan importers who sell imported vans far below the price of the locally manufactured units. They have been a thorn in the side of the caravan manufacturers for a few years.
The negative of removing self certification will be increased cost, where today it is a simple matter for a reputable manufacturer to understand their own design, and to inspect their product at the end of the line, all of this will suddenly become an onerous and expensive task, and someone is going to need to pay for the infrastructure established to perform the certification, and the time the manufacturer need to spend to certify each and every van.
herbie said
03:05 AM Jul 17, 2013
Hope the new proposed regulations go as far as to cover the electrical certification ,as when we had our van built I had to demand a certification cert .The company building it kept telling me it was not required to have a new van registered .But I still demanded one.
After many phn calls they relunctantly issued me one.
In Tasmania you must have this electrical compliance paper before a new van can be registered .
But appears not in the rest of the country,
Baz421 said
03:27 AM Jul 17, 2013
Plendo wrote:
Self certification is an admirable objective, and if the industry was full of honest people it would not be a problem, and for the vast majority of manufacturers this appears to be true. Have a look at the caravan and motor home related forums there are people who complain about having problems, then in the next post talk about how well the manufacturer or the dealer fixed the problem. Yes there are also a few (when compared to teh number of vans sold) tales of real problems, and manufacturers who have genuinely let people down.
I suspect if the CMA is behind a move the limit or remove self certification it is an attempt to remove a number of highly visible caravan importers who sell imported vans far below the price of the locally manufactured units. They have been a thorn in the side of the caravan manufacturers for a few years.
The negative of removing self certification will be increased cost, where today it is a simple matter for a reputable manufacturer to understand their own design, and to inspect their product at the end of the line, all of this will suddenly become an onerous and expensive task, and someone is going to need to pay for the infrastructure established to perform the certification, and the time the manufacturer need to spend to certify each and every van.
Well said Plendo,,,, certification to ADR's is expensive I know from years of experience. Like everything with self regulation you need to weed out the problems. This can be done under current legislation all it needs is the willpower from the states.
Roving-Dutchy said
04:29 AM Jul 17, 2013
When I google caravan manufacturers australia I get no legitimate finds, I wonder if they really exist, it may just be a try on by a major manufacturer to try and nobble smaller manufacturers, would be interested if more detail could be found re CMA.
I don't think new regulation would really help just an excuse to lift prices there is much legislation in place now in many industries but departments responsible for enforcement usually appear to be asleep at the wheel.
Cheers
David
rockylizard said
04:57 AM Jul 17, 2013
Gday...
When I googled "caravan manufacturers association"
David, To the best of my knowledge there is no Caravan Manufacturers of Australia. It's the Recreation Vehicle Manufacturers of Australia (RVMA) which is a revamped RVMAA. http://rvma.com.au
There is also the Caravan Council of Australia (CCA) which is a private organisation founded and run by Colin Young the former CEO of the RVMAA and probably the best qualified engineer in the country with most things to do with RV's. The CCA provides free of charge check sheets to download for potential buyers and manufacturers & Importers. (See website) They also carry out pay for service inspections on behalf of buyers and manufacturers, and expert witness statements for the courts for related RV problems. They are also active along with myself and a handful of others in formulating changes and/or improvements to current legislation and submitting (Lobbying) same to the appropriate State & Federal authorities. There are also a number of technical articles on the website. http://www.caravancouncil.com.au
Cheers, Ozjohn.
-- Edited by ozjohn on Wednesday 17th of July 2013 09:24:48 PM
Baz421 said
03:44 AM Jul 18, 2013
Roving-Dutchy wrote:
When I google caravan manufacturers australia I get no legitimate finds, I wonder if they really exist, it may just be a try on by a major manufacturer to try and nobble smaller manufacturers, would be interested if more detail could be found re CMA.
I don't think new regulation would really help just an excuse to lift prices there is much legislation in place now in many industries but departments responsible for enforcement usually appear to be asleep at the wheel.
Cheers
David
David give up google now - too many paid ads lead to paid ads lead to paid ads. It's not worth it any more.
Use Yahoo - I did and had direct hits on manufacturers
While self certification is a complete and utter disaster at least there are calls to remedy the situation.
Colin Young the principle of the CCA (Caravan Council of Australia) is lobbying the authorities to scrap self certification and the RVMA (Recreational Vehicle Manufacturers of Australia) have introduced inspection o0f their member manufactures for compliance. While the RVMA inspections are not legally binding they are having an effect of a few manufactures who have lifted their act after faults were identified and others who with the threat of suspension or expulsion have been forced to improve their compliance. However the majority of RV's built in Australia are built by non members of the RVMA.
But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for someone or some government department to scrap it and introduce a legally binding compliance inspections system anytime in the foreseeable future.
And while industry wide compliance with the regulations would be fantastic it would not in itself improve quality of overall construction or finish.
Ozjohn
-- Edited by ozjohn on Tuesday 16th of July 2013 09:56:54 PM
I was reading with interest a article on the scraping of self certification of caravan & camper trailers in Oz.
CMA,the independent caravan council of Oz has called for the current system which allows manufacturers to self certify their new caravans & camper trailers to be abolished as the unsupervised practice is resulting in death trap RVs being allowed on to Oz roads,
It went on to say the image of the C/v industry has been tarnished by dishonourable quick buck merchants.
Many problems with the current system regarding selling and promoting of RVs is with serious unprofessional & unethical/illegal activities
In many cases in information provided on the plate was not correct and /or fully complete-especially in relation to wheels/tyres and inflation pressures.
The use of self certification has allowed uninformed and/or unethical parties to market C/V & camping trailers when they have serious &even potentially lethal non-compliances.
Under the current certification Oz caravan manufacturers & importers are allowed to self- certify RVs under 4.5 tonnes.
Would be interested to hear other forum members view on this .
I feel this is change of self certification is well over due and should have been in force a long time ago.
Just have to read some of the horror stories regarding gas out let ventilation for one.
MONEY TALKS ''''so I can only see all this for the better of the consumer in the long run.If compliance costs a little more then very often it becomes a very much bastardized part of the process.
One only has to spend some time in a RV work shop to see the number of seriously non-compliant and often AC.electricial installations out there.The lack of regulations and governance of quality control applies to the assembly process as well.I believe the purchaser would be prepared to a little more to gain the certainty that his/her product was built to a written standard and certified by a qualified body.
Prices may well be reduced under a stricter regime due to the fact it would weed out the rogues in the industry and find it harder to operate, so in turn the field would become rationalised and more efficient and a lot of foreign built units would flood the market, due to lower over heads further forcing local industry to become more competitive,as up until recently they have had it all their own way.
At the moment there is no codes for 24/12 volt wiring nor even remotely for quality construction.
-- Edited by herbie on Wednesday 17th of July 2013 12:35:54 AM
Just who are CMA I can find no reference to them on Google.
Cheers
David
CMA..is Caravan Manufacturers Australia.
Self certification is an admirable objective, and if the industry was full of honest people it would not be a problem, and for the vast majority of manufacturers this appears to be true. Have a look at the caravan and motor home related forums there are people who complain about having problems, then in the next post talk about how well the manufacturer or the dealer fixed the problem. Yes there are also a few (when compared to teh number of vans sold) tales of real problems, and manufacturers who have genuinely let people down.
I suspect if the CMA is behind a move the limit or remove self certification it is an attempt to remove a number of highly visible caravan importers who sell imported vans far below the price of the locally manufactured units. They have been a thorn in the side of the caravan manufacturers for a few years.
The negative of removing self certification will be increased cost, where today it is a simple matter for a reputable manufacturer to understand their own design, and to inspect their product at the end of the line, all of this will suddenly become an onerous and expensive task, and someone is going to need to pay for the infrastructure established to perform the certification, and the time the manufacturer need to spend to certify each and every van.
Hope the new proposed regulations go as far as to cover the electrical certification ,as when we had our van built I had to demand a certification cert .The company building it kept telling me it was not required to have a new van registered .But I still demanded one.
After many phn calls they relunctantly issued me one.
In Tasmania you must have this electrical compliance paper before a new van can be registered .
But appears not in the rest of the country,
Well said Plendo,,,, certification to ADR's is expensive I know from years of experience. Like everything with self regulation you need to weed out the problems. This can be done under current legislation all it needs is the willpower from the states.
When I google caravan manufacturers australia I get no legitimate finds, I wonder if they really exist, it may just be a try on by a major manufacturer to try and nobble smaller manufacturers, would be interested if more detail could be found re CMA.
I don't think new regulation would really help just an excuse to lift prices there is much legislation in place now in many industries but departments responsible for enforcement usually appear to be asleep at the wheel.
Cheers
David
Gday...
When I googled "caravan manufacturers association"
I got this as the first hit - http://rvma.com.au/
Perhaps this are they ??
Cheers - John
David,
To the best of my knowledge there is no Caravan Manufacturers of Australia.
It's the Recreation Vehicle Manufacturers of Australia (RVMA) which is a revamped RVMAA. http://rvma.com.au
There is also the Caravan Council of Australia (CCA) which is a private organisation founded and run by Colin Young the former CEO of the RVMAA and probably the best qualified engineer in the country with most things to do with RV's.
The CCA provides free of charge check sheets to download for potential buyers and manufacturers & Importers. (See website)
They also carry out pay for service inspections on behalf of buyers and manufacturers, and expert witness statements for the courts for related RV problems.
They are also active along with myself and a handful of others in formulating changes and/or improvements to current legislation and submitting (Lobbying) same to the appropriate State & Federal authorities. There are also a number of technical articles on the website.
http://www.caravancouncil.com.au
Cheers, Ozjohn.
-- Edited by ozjohn on Wednesday 17th of July 2013 09:24:48 PM
David give up google now - too many paid ads lead to paid ads lead to paid ads. It's not worth it any more.
Use Yahoo - I did and had direct hits on manufacturers