During a morning visit from a local friend of 30+ years, a CMCA motor home member & a high ranking SES member, I was informed of the following which is hard to believe. This info was supplied by the CMCA to its members.
This will mainly concern motor home owners.
As many motorhomes are built on a small truck chassis & running gear, part of which is a set of 8ply light truck tyres.
Many of these units are registered at 4.495kg max load, this allows them to be driven on a car licience, also sets the rego & insurance levels.
Now the interesting bit, IF you have upgraded the tyres to a 10 or 12 ply rating for increased saftey & load carring abilities, you now run the risk of receiving three traffic infringments in one hit from law enforcement.
This upgrade is now deemed as bring the vehicle up to a higher load carring capacity; Therefore they are handing out traffic infringments for
A- being unlicienced- as in needing a light truck lic.
B- incorrectly registered, must be a 5=tonn.
C- incorrectly insured as to the weights.
I do know that a light truck can be registered as a 5tonn at additional costs to which you will need the light rigid lic.Apparantly this mod brings some vehicles into the next higher catagory.
My friend knows a person that got done, had to get his son with a light rigid lic. to come & drive the motor home back home & just when he thought he was doing himself a saftey favour.
This sounds completely over the top but I have no reason to not believe this person, as he pulled up to have a look at our new truck & thats when he asked me if I knew this, to which I did not know. A quick check tyre check & all is ok.
Unbelievable.
JC.
Keith19837 said
02:51 AM Sep 12, 2013
G'day justcruisin', I was interested to read your article. Which State/Territory is this happening in? In Victoria, there is no such thing as a light truck (except for LT tyre classifications which must be fitted to certain utes, people movers etc). Licences and registration go; Light vehicle (under 5 tonnes TARE weight), then the Rigids (including buses), Heavy Combination, Articulated and lastly, B Doubles (apparently a B Triple is slated for the near future.) As far as tyres go, the tyres fitted must be as per the manufacturer's specification (which is ADR compliant) with a leeway of 2.5 centimetres width and includes a minimum speed rating for that vehicle. A vehicle can increase the width by up to 2.5 cms (exceptions for deep dish 'mags' if ADR compliant) and mustn't protrude outside the bodyline. May also increase the tyre speed rating and adjust the profile (aspect) to suit. Ply rating can be increased (such as Maxxis which have up to six extra plies). Certain ADR complaint newer vehicles (only) can use 'space saver' tyres whilst driving at a lower (rated) speed and only for the purpose of taking the vehicle to the nearest practicable tyre repairer/supplier.
For what it's worth
Roving-Dutchy said
03:10 AM Sep 12, 2013
Sounds very much like an urban myth.
Cheers
David
justcruisin01 said
03:18 AM Sep 12, 2013
Keith19837 wrote:
G'day justcruisin', I was interested to read your article. Which State/Territory is this happening in? In Victoria, there is no such thing as a light truck (except for LT tyre classifications which must be fitted to certain utes, people movers etc). Licences and registration go; Light vehicle (under 5 tonnes TARE weight), then the Rigids (including buses), Heavy Combination, Articulated and lastly, B Doubles (apparently a B Triple is slated for the near future.) As far as tyres go, the tyres fitted must be as per the manufacturer's specification (which is ADR compliant) with a leeway of 2.5 centimetres width and includes a minimum speed rating for that vehicle. A vehicle can increase the width by up to 2.5 cms (exceptions for deep dish 'mags' if ADR compliant) and mustn't protrude outside the bodyline. May also increase the tyre speed rating and adjust the profile (aspect) to suit. Ply rating can be increased (such as Maxxis which have up to six extra plies). Certain ADR complaint newer vehicles (only) can use 'space saver' tyres whilst driving at a lower (rated) speed and only for the purpose of taking the vehicle to the nearest practicable tyre repairer/supplier.
For what it's worth
We are in NSW, dont know where the person got done in the M/h, Car lic. up to 4.495T, then a light rigid which is a single rear axle, then heavy rigid 2 drive axles, dont know about the dog trailers etc, then semi, B doubble & roadtrain, etc.. I think that the CMCA is nation wide.
justcruisin01 said
03:20 AM Sep 12, 2013
Roving-Dutchy wrote:
Sounds very much like an urban myth. Cheers David
I have just set up a small truck & this is why he gave me the info.
copper1 said
03:27 AM Sep 12, 2013
JC sounds like a scare tactic by people who think they know things but perhaps they don't, this little snippit, is from our Hwy Patrol manual as HWY cops we did not know everything and common sense was the call. Hope this helps
As a general rule, it is recommended that only wheels and tyres that are listed
on the tyre placard or in the owners handbook be fitted to a vehicle. These
have been tested and proved for use on the vehicle. Sometimes the range of
wheels listed by the manufacturer may appear to be limited. While it is
recommended that only these wheels be fitted, the RTA does not oppose the
fitting of wheels outside the range providing they are safe for the vehicle.
NOTE: An important requirement for all replacement wheels is that the wheel
track must not be increased by more than 25mm beyond the maximum
specified by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle.
gordon_adl said
04:13 AM Sep 12, 2013
But again it's only hear say. He gave you that info, but where did he get it from and did he bother to show you any any actual black & white actual regulations stating this as fact? Not having a go at you personally,
but really it does just seem like urban myth. This person probably means well, but mistakes like this are more the norm as opposed to actual fact.
justcruisin01 wrote:
I have just set up a small truck & this is why he gave me the info.
jules47 said
04:22 AM Sep 12, 2013
gordon_adl wrote:
But again it's only hear say. He gave you that info, but where did he get it from and did he bother to show you any any actual black & white actual regulations stating this as fact? Not having a go at you personally,
but really it does just seem like urban myth. This person probably means well, but mistakes like this are more the norm as opposed to actual fact.
justcruisin01 wrote:
I have just set up a small truck & this is why he gave me the info.
"During a morning visit from a local friend of 30+ years, a CMCA motor home member & a high ranking SES member, I was informed of the following which is hard to believe. This info was supplied by the CMCA to its members."
Mike C said
02:05 PM Sep 12, 2013
Sounds strange to me.
My understanding (I am no expert and this is just my opinion) is that the truck has a compliance plate that states the Max GVM. if that is under 4.5 ton you can drive it on a standard license.
Putting higher rated tyres wont change the compliance plate.
You may be able to have the GVM legally raised by using higher rated tyres but would have to get an engineer to certify it and a modification plate attesting to what the new GVM is attached to the vehicle.
A light Ridged (LR) license allows a driver to drive a rigid truck up to 8 tons.
in that sense you could say a truck is a light truck if it has two axles and is under 8 ton GVM.
I had an MR (medium ridged) license (covers any two axle truck) but had it down graded to an LR because of medical reasons. an LR license is looked at as similar to a std license when it comes to medical reports. on the MR I need annual tests from a specialist with the LR this has been increased to 3 years and mostly a GP is acceptable. (costs me a lot less to manage).
ozjohn said
03:22 PM Sep 12, 2013
The word 'FURPHY' immediately comes to mind.
Tyres or anything else doesn't change the GVM as stamped in the VIN Plate. Ozjohn.
Baz421 said
03:31 PM Sep 12, 2013
ozjohn wrote:
The word 'FURPHY' immediately comes to mind.
Tyres or anything else doesn't change the GVM as stamped in the VIN Plate. Ozjohn.
Agree John as it's the ADR category (<4.5t GVM) at the time of manufacture and it stays with the vehicle for life, UNLESS, it is legally modified and a second compliance plate fitted OR approved modification.
Licences in each state don't necessarily equate to/follow ADR categories,,,, as ADR categories are for the VEHICLE and licences are for the PERSON.
-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 12th of September 2013 08:31:59 PM
-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 12th of September 2013 08:33:21 PM
Baz421 said
08:34 PM Sep 12, 2013
Shogun wrote:
My MH has 2 rear axles and is classed as being able to be driven on an LR licence.
Definetely sounds like a myth to me too.
Brett
Bret what state are you licenced and what is the GVM please?
-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 12th of September 2013 08:35:17 PM
Shogun said
10:21 PM Sep 12, 2013
My MH has 2 rear axles and is classed as being able to be driven on an LR licence.
Definetely sounds like a myth to me too.
Brett
Mike C said
11:16 PM Sep 12, 2013
Shogun wrote:
My MH has 2 rear axles and is classed as being able to be driven on an LR licence.
Definetely sounds like a myth to me too.
Brett
Yep that one has sort of snuck in there...
When I did my MR the deal was max two axles.. more Axles required a HR licence.
However yours are lazy axles so maybe thats how they do it?
or having single tyres on each?
Looks a bloody nice rig tho...
cheers
Mike
VKPORTABLE said
02:38 AM Sep 13, 2013
Not doubting your source... but..
The addition of tires would not increase the GVM, if I was pulled up and told this I would 1. Be asking said officer for his details and number, 2. Protesting it rather vehemently and 3 if needed continue onto court.
I fail to see how changing tyres puts a vehicle into a different class - unless of course you have a 4WD with those monster truck tires then you might have some explaining to do.
countryroad said
02:56 AM Sep 13, 2013
Didn't copper1 cover this in his comment earlier.
brickies said
03:07 AM Sep 13, 2013
Is there any CMCA members on this forum that has been told this by CMCA , I would doubt it
Baz421 said
03:10 AM Sep 13, 2013
justcruisin01 wrote:
My friend knows a person that got done, had to get his son with a light rigid lic. to come & drive the motor home back home & just when he thought he was doing himself a saftey favour.
JC sounds like he exceeded his GVM. What state are we referring to for licence class???????
Baz421 said
03:32 AM Sep 13, 2013
Baz421 wrote:
ozjohn wrote:
The word 'FURPHY' immediately comes to mind.
Tyres or anything else doesn't change the GVM as stamped in the VIN Plate. Ozjohn.
Agree John as it's the ADR category (<4.5t GVM) at the time of manufacture and it stays with the vehicle for life, UNLESS, it is legally modified and a second compliance plate fitted OR approved modification.
Licences in each state don't necessarily equate to/follow ADR categories,,,, as ADR categories are for the VEHICLE and licences are for the PERSON.
UPDATE
Just checked,,, looks like all states now have aligned licences with ADR categories.
< 4.5 tonnes GVM
4.5 to 8 tonnes GVM,,, all based on GVM - NOT TYRES
So JC sounds like its c**p and should be put to rest.
-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 12th of September 2013 08:31:59 PM
justcruisin01 said
03:42 AM Sep 13, 2013
gordon_adl wrote:
But again it's only hear say. He gave you that info, but where did he get it from and did he bother to show you any any actual black & white actual regulations stating this as fact? Not having a go at you personally,
but really it does just seem like urban myth. This person probably means well, but mistakes like this are more the norm as opposed to actual fact.
justcruisin01 wrote:
I have just set up a small truck & this is why he gave me the info.
The info was that they were advised by LETTER from the CMCA.It was an unplanned visit, as I happened to be in the driveway when he was passing & stopped to have a look the truck so no, he didnt have the letter in his pocket.
I agree with what you's are saying , I think it is being treated like the old INTENT system, sit in drivers while over the limit & you were done for intent. Carry a tool that maybe used as a weapon, intent. Basicily you had not done anything wrong BUT you might, this should not have been alowed to happen but it did. Same with this story, you have upgraded the carring capacity of the vehicle so you might happen to carry a bit more load, again intent. Looks like some one with little to has found a loop hole & trying to apply it.
If I had been the M/h owner I would have fought it all the way as well. Any how mine is legal & thats all I'm worried about.
LR = ridged up to 8 ton (no mention of how many Axles)
MR = ridged over 8 ton max 2 axles
HR = ridged over 8 ton more than two axles
If you hold a higher category you are licensed for all lower categories. (that is CAR, LR, MR, HR etc.)
So two rear axles on a vehicle under 8 Ton is covered by the LR but Two rear Axles over 8 Ton requires a HR (MR limits you to total of two Axles).
all relate to GVM.
mr glassies said
10:52 PM Sep 16, 2013
ya never know a the guy that bought our c/van fridge got busted by rta for blue driving light covers ,rod holders and his cb arial was on a bracket welded on by manufacturer . funny bit has 36 inch tyres and a 5 inch lift guy said thats ok . lol
funny **** a i got a defect in one of my trucks for an air pressure relief valve that his just before the compressor had full air up put on a new one did the same thing but because it was new it was ok
During a morning visit from a local friend of 30+ years, a CMCA motor home member & a high ranking SES member, I was informed of the following which is hard to believe. This info was supplied by the CMCA to its members.
This will mainly concern motor home owners.
As many motorhomes are built on a small truck chassis & running gear, part of which is a set of 8ply light truck tyres.
Many of these units are registered at 4.495kg max load, this allows them to be driven on a car licience, also sets the rego & insurance levels.
Now the interesting bit, IF you have upgraded the tyres to a 10 or 12 ply rating for increased saftey & load carring abilities, you now run the risk of receiving three traffic infringments in one hit from law enforcement.
This upgrade is now deemed as bring the vehicle up to a higher load carring capacity; Therefore they are handing out traffic infringments for
A- being unlicienced- as in needing a light truck lic.
B- incorrectly registered, must be a 5=tonn.
C- incorrectly insured as to the weights.
I do know that a light truck can be registered as a 5tonn at additional costs to which you will need the light rigid lic.Apparantly this mod brings some vehicles into the next higher catagory.
My friend knows a person that got done, had to get his son with a light rigid lic. to come & drive the motor home back home & just when he thought he was doing himself a saftey favour.
This sounds completely over the top but I have no reason to not believe this person, as he pulled up to have a look at our new truck & thats when he asked me if I knew this, to which I did not know. A quick check tyre check & all is ok.
Unbelievable.
JC.
G'day justcruisin', I was interested to read your article. Which State/Territory is this happening in? In Victoria, there is no such thing as a light truck (except for LT tyre classifications which must be fitted to certain utes, people movers etc). Licences and registration go; Light vehicle (under 5 tonnes TARE weight), then the Rigids (including buses), Heavy Combination, Articulated and lastly, B Doubles (apparently a B Triple is slated for the near future.) As far as tyres go, the tyres fitted must be as per the manufacturer's specification (which is ADR compliant) with a leeway of 2.5 centimetres width and includes a minimum speed rating for that vehicle. A vehicle can increase the width by up to 2.5 cms (exceptions for deep dish 'mags' if ADR compliant) and mustn't protrude outside the bodyline. May also increase the tyre speed rating and adjust the profile (aspect) to suit. Ply rating can be increased (such as Maxxis which have up to six extra plies). Certain ADR complaint newer vehicles (only) can use 'space saver' tyres whilst driving at a lower (rated) speed and only for the purpose of taking the vehicle to the nearest practicable tyre repairer/supplier.
For what it's worth
Cheers
David
We are in NSW, dont know where the person got done in the M/h, Car lic. up to 4.495T, then a light rigid which is a single rear axle, then heavy rigid 2 drive axles, dont know about the dog trailers etc, then semi, B doubble & roadtrain, etc.. I think that the CMCA is nation wide.
I have just set up a small truck & this is why he gave me the info.
JC sounds like a scare tactic by people who think they know things but perhaps they don't, this little snippit, is from our Hwy Patrol manual as HWY cops we did not know everything and common sense was the call. Hope this helps
As a general rule, it is recommended that only wheels and tyres that are listed
on the tyre placard or in the owners handbook be fitted to a vehicle. These
have been tested and proved for use on the vehicle. Sometimes the range of
wheels listed by the manufacturer may appear to be limited. While it is
recommended that only these wheels be fitted, the RTA does not oppose the
fitting of wheels outside the range providing they are safe for the vehicle.
NOTE: An important requirement for all replacement wheels is that the wheel
track must not be increased by more than 25mm beyond the maximum
specified by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle.
My understanding (I am no expert and this is just my opinion) is that the truck has a compliance plate that states the Max GVM. if that is under 4.5 ton you can drive it on a standard license.
Putting higher rated tyres wont change the compliance plate.
You may be able to have the GVM legally raised by using higher rated tyres but would have to get an engineer to certify it and a modification plate attesting to what the new GVM is attached to the vehicle.
A light Ridged (LR) license allows a driver to drive a rigid truck up to 8 tons.
in that sense you could say a truck is a light truck if it has two axles and is under 8 ton GVM.
I had an MR (medium ridged) license (covers any two axle truck) but had it down graded to an LR because of medical reasons. an LR license is looked at as similar to a std license when it comes to medical reports. on the MR I need annual tests from a specialist with the LR this has been increased to 3 years and mostly a GP is acceptable. (costs me a lot less to manage).
The word 'FURPHY' immediately comes to mind.
Tyres or anything else doesn't change the GVM as stamped in the VIN Plate.
Ozjohn.
Agree John as it's the ADR category (<4.5t GVM) at the time of manufacture and it stays with the vehicle for life, UNLESS, it is legally modified and a second compliance plate fitted OR approved modification.
Licences in each state don't necessarily equate to/follow ADR categories,,,, as ADR categories are for the VEHICLE and licences are for the PERSON.
-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 12th of September 2013 08:31:59 PM
-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 12th of September 2013 08:33:21 PM
Bret what state are you licenced and what is the GVM please?
-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 12th of September 2013 08:35:17 PM
Definetely sounds like a myth to me too.
Brett
Yep that one has sort of snuck in there...
When I did my MR the deal was max two axles.. more Axles required a HR licence.
However yours are lazy axles so maybe thats how they do it?
or having single tyres on each?
Looks a bloody nice rig tho...
cheers
Mike
Not doubting your source... but..
The addition of tires would not increase the GVM, if I was pulled up and told this I would 1. Be asking said officer for his details and number, 2. Protesting it rather vehemently and 3 if needed continue onto court.
I fail to see how changing tyres puts a vehicle into a different class - unless of course you have a 4WD with those monster truck tires then you might have some explaining to do.
JC sounds like he exceeded his GVM. What state are we referring to for licence class???????
The info was that they were advised by LETTER from the CMCA.It was an unplanned visit, as I happened to be in the driveway when he was passing & stopped to have a look the truck so no, he didnt have the letter in his pocket.
I agree with what you's are saying , I think it is being treated like the old INTENT system, sit in drivers while over the limit & you were done for intent. Carry a tool that maybe used as a weapon, intent. Basicily you had not done anything wrong BUT you might, this should not have been alowed to happen but it did. Same with this story, you have upgraded the carring capacity of the vehicle so you might happen to carry a bit more load, again intent. Looks like some one with little to has found a loop hole & trying to apply it.
If I had been the M/h owner I would have fought it all the way as well. Any how mine is legal & thats all I'm worried about.
Just had a look at the Vic license categories http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/OtherLicences/Licencecategories.htm
LR = ridged up to 8 ton (no mention of how many Axles)
MR = ridged over 8 ton max 2 axles
HR = ridged over 8 ton more than two axles
If you hold a higher category you are licensed for all lower categories. (that is CAR, LR, MR, HR etc.)
So two rear axles on a vehicle under 8 Ton is covered by the LR but Two rear Axles over 8 Ton requires a HR (MR limits you to total of two Axles).
all relate to GVM.
funny **** a i got a defect in one of my trucks for an air pressure relief valve that his just before the compressor had full air up put on a new one did the same thing but because it was new it was ok
dibs