The Bay of fires area has been a free camp for as long as I can remember, I've been going to Tassie for over the last 20 years, under the guise of protecting the area and saying that new facilities must be paid for by the user, toilets in this area have been there forever, rubbish bins are the only facility that is needed, they are very well looked after and clean, the Premier's department say they will introduce the fees in 2015, they may as well do it now, I've gone for the last time, I was going back next February to see how things were going and make my own mind up but I'm fed up with these idiots protecting National Parks and conservation areas from us, I've spent more time in these areas cleaning up after locals, who I saw dump their rubbish, enough is enough. http://www.examiner.com.au/story/1777172/new-fees-for-bay-of-fires-campers/
Bucko.
brickies said
05:05 PM Sep 21, 2013
I think user pays has a lot of merit if we want to visit these facilities we need to put our hands in our own pocket not someone else's
Bucko said
05:17 PM Sep 21, 2013
The facilities that we are supposedly paying for, were there and paid for by the locals, who have camped there and spent their money locally for the last 30 years or more and are being paid for by the campers and travellers that bring their money with them when they travel, we are paying but now we are being asked to pay more and again, won't happen, I can only vote with my feet by not going, that's what I'll do and maybe a lot of others as well, I'm a pension and travel in a small camper, I don't complain about the price of the ferry and the prices that skyrocket when the seasons come around, in Tassie I made it up in the free camps, without the free campers, there is no incentive to go, they obviously don't want the lower end of the market but there are a lot of us out there, ask John, (Yoeeleven) if he'll go if all the free camps disappear, we can't afford to pay everynight for somewhere to sleep, the last time I was there 2 years ago, I stayed for 3 months and spent over $3000.00, it all adds up.
brickies said
05:24 PM Sep 21, 2013
We will have to agree to disagree
Bucko said
07:06 PM Sep 21, 2013
Thank you sheba, it still doesn't work on my computer, one day we'll meet and you can show me how.
sorry it went through twice.
-- Edited by Bucko on Saturday 21st of September 2013 07:07:20 PM
Golddetectornomad said
07:39 PM Sep 21, 2013
I'm with you Bucko and thanks for raising the issue as I get to learn on this Forum if ideas/issues are not squashed as fast as they are presented, and are able to be discussed in open forum...
Brickies, 'User Pays' equals what in your opinion?...User pays relative to what Caravan Parks levy?...or commensurate with the 'Service' provided and how is that determined?..by what market forces will actually pay/be extorted for how little or as much is actually provided?...or simply by measuring the numbers who no longer go, like Bucko and then wind the Levy back a little until they come again?....have you ever used a Public Toilet which is provided for the Public generally free of charge out of the Public Purse?... or do you expect to pay out of your own pocket on every occasion....I do agree however it is one place not to put your hands in others pockets....
Methinks, these decisions are not about the cost of providing a 'Service' but more about the potential Revenue...start the Levy on the popular Free Camps, get the lemmings used to the idea and then apply across the board to them all, regardless of how little or how much 'Service' is actually provided...User Pays its called, and the only stakeholder who does not get a say in setting the levy/fee is the user who must withhold their 'User' status , having to vote with their feet like Bucko and others will no doubt do.....
Hoo Roo
Bucko said
07:53 PM Sep 21, 2013
My feelings exactly Larry, we always pay, like on the roads with the tolls, excise and GST, but look at the conditions of the roads, when was the last time your user pay title, entitled you to any say on how the money is gathered or spent, once the fee is on, it stays, no matter where it ends up, certainly not where it was spent, that's for sure, I'm fed up with being milked and then abused without any benefit.
Kevin.
jules47 said
11:08 PM Sep 21, 2013
The locals who have camped at places like Bay of Fires for over 30 years are not going to be happy having a fee foisted on them. What new facililties are going to be added to the campground to justify the cost - we stayed there twice - in very busy times, and there was no rubbish lying around, the toilets (long drops) were kept tidy by campers.
What is the justification for imposing a fee now? Are there new facilities going in? Water taps? Showers? Dump points? - No - how can they now charge a fee for what has always been free?
If there are donation boxes we put our money in them, of course. But the state needs to take stock of how much money is spent by tourists on goods and services in the state by tourists, they don't have much other industry - look after this one, or it will be gone as well.
GaryKelly said
11:54 PM Sep 21, 2013
What is it they say about the goose that laid the golden egg?
Thank you sheba, it still doesn't work on my computer, one day we'll meet and you can show me how.
Cloak said
01:31 PM Sep 22, 2013
The last time we did Tassie we flew over,rented a car and stayed in motels. We still visited all the places we wanted.
Yes the place is out of reach for us now so they can stick their charges up as far as they like I won't be going back.
rockylizard said
10:04 AM Sep 24, 2013
Gday...
Thanks for the updated 'news'. As always with the "arms" of Govt, the left hand and right hand do not keep each other informed (apologies for puns )
However, whilst, like Herbie, I can see the value of perhaps imposing a 'token fee' to sort out the freeloaders from the genuine and how that small income could be used to offset the 'running costs' (cleaning, repairing, mowing etc) of an area, I cannot help but remember the installation of electric BBQs that many councils all over the country installed years ago.
Remember them. Originally, one simply inserted a 20cent coin, pushed a button and the plate heated for a pre-set amount of time, when the coin 'ran out' simply insert another 20cent coin and continue cooking. It usually only took two, sometimes three, coins to cook up the tucker.
It did not take long before the damage to the BBQs by low-life types trying to steal the coin containers, and the cost of repair and cleaning of the plates left by thoughtless users, more than offset any financial gain the 20cent coins provided. All that revenue, albeit not huge, absorbed by administration and maintenance.
In many instances, the council simply disconnected the BBQ and in some instances actually removed them. This often resulted in lower patronage to the local park by locals and visitors to the area - resulting in some fall-away in revenue to the local businesses.
I am willing to be proven wrong, but the greater majority of these electric BBQs are still in use today and they are now free (i.e. no cost to the user) - because it is cheaper to provide the service at no cost than attract the high administration/maintenance cost of charging a small fee. Locals, and visitors, now use these facilities and the 'rub-off' to local businesses is still there. The community wins, including council from rates and fees it gathers from the increased patronage of their town.
Perhaps this is where the 'token small fee' for 'camping' at these places will end up - when the accountants stop looking at 'unbundled' costs of each item on the balance sheet and look at the 'big picture' we will see a complete circle on the application of 'fees'.
Cheers - and happy travelling - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 24th of September 2013 10:06:50 AM
Big Gorilla said
04:44 PM Sep 24, 2013
This article appeared today in The Examiner, Launceston..
The Bay of fires area has been a free camp for as long as I can remember, I've been going to Tassie for over the last 20 years, under the guise of protecting the area and saying that new facilities must be paid for by the user, toilets in this area have been there forever, rubbish bins are the only facility that is needed, they are very well looked after and clean, the Premier's department say they will introduce the fees in 2015, they may as well do it now, I've gone for the last time, I was going back next February to see how things were going and make my own mind up but I'm fed up with these idiots protecting National Parks and conservation areas from us, I've spent more time in these areas cleaning up after locals, who I saw dump their rubbish, enough is enough. http://www.examiner.com.au/story/1777172/new-fees-for-bay-of-fires-campers/
Bucko.
The facilities that we are supposedly paying for, were there and paid for by the locals, who have camped there and spent their money locally for the last 30 years or more and are being paid for by the campers and travellers that bring their money with them when they travel, we are paying but now we are being asked to pay more and again, won't happen, I can only vote with my feet by not going, that's what I'll do and maybe a lot of others as well, I'm a pension and travel in a small camper, I don't complain about the price of the ferry and the prices that skyrocket when the seasons come around, in Tassie I made it up in the free camps, without the free campers, there is no incentive to go, they obviously don't want the lower end of the market but there are a lot of us out there, ask John, (Yoeeleven) if he'll go if all the free camps disappear, we can't afford to pay everynight for somewhere to sleep, the last time I was there 2 years ago, I stayed for 3 months and spent over $3000.00, it all adds up.
Thank you sheba, it still doesn't work on my computer, one day we'll meet and you can show me how.
sorry it went through twice.
-- Edited by Bucko on Saturday 21st of September 2013 07:07:20 PM
Brickies, 'User Pays' equals what in your opinion?...User pays relative to what Caravan Parks levy?...or commensurate with the 'Service' provided and how is that determined?..by what market forces will actually pay/be extorted for how little or as much is actually provided?...or simply by measuring the numbers who no longer go, like Bucko and then wind the Levy back a little until they come again?....have you ever used a Public Toilet which is provided for the Public generally free of charge out of the Public Purse?... or do you expect to pay out of your own pocket on every occasion....I do agree however it is one place not to put your hands in others pockets....
Methinks, these decisions are not about the cost of providing a 'Service' but more about the potential Revenue...start the Levy on the popular Free Camps, get the lemmings used to the idea and then apply across the board to them all, regardless of how little or how much 'Service' is actually provided...User Pays its called, and the only stakeholder who does not get a say in setting the levy/fee is the user who must withhold their 'User' status , having to vote with their feet like Bucko and others will no doubt do.....
Hoo Roo
My feelings exactly Larry, we always pay, like on the roads with the tolls, excise and GST, but look at the conditions of the roads, when was the last time your user pay title, entitled you to any say on how the money is gathered or spent, once the fee is on, it stays, no matter where it ends up, certainly not where it was spent, that's for sure, I'm fed up with being milked and then abused without any benefit.
Kevin.
What is the justification for imposing a fee now? Are there new facilities going in? Water taps? Showers? Dump points? - No - how can they now charge a fee for what has always been free?
If there are donation boxes we put our money in them, of course. But the state needs to take stock of how much money is spent by tourists on goods and services in the state by tourists, they don't have much other industry - look after this one, or it will be gone as well.
http://www.examiner.com.au/story/1777172/new-fees-for-bay-of-fires-campers/
Thank you sheba, it still doesn't work on my computer, one day we'll meet and you can show me how.
Yes the place is out of reach for us now so they can stick their charges up as far as they like I won't be going back.
Gday...
Thanks for the updated 'news'. As always with the "arms" of Govt, the left hand and right hand do not keep each other informed (apologies for puns
)
However, whilst, like Herbie, I can see the value of perhaps imposing a 'token fee' to sort out the freeloaders from the genuine and how that small income could be used to offset the 'running costs' (cleaning, repairing, mowing etc) of an area, I cannot help but remember the installation of electric BBQs that many councils all over the country installed years ago.
Remember them. Originally, one simply inserted a 20cent coin, pushed a button and the plate heated for a pre-set amount of time, when the coin 'ran out' simply insert another 20cent coin and continue cooking. It usually only took two, sometimes three, coins to cook up the tucker.
It did not take long before the damage to the BBQs by low-life types trying to steal the coin containers, and the cost of repair and cleaning of the plates left by thoughtless users, more than offset any financial gain the 20cent coins provided. All that revenue, albeit not huge, absorbed by administration and maintenance.
In many instances, the council simply disconnected the BBQ and in some instances actually removed them. This often resulted in lower patronage to the local park by locals and visitors to the area - resulting in some fall-away in revenue to the local businesses.
I am willing to be proven wrong, but the greater majority of these electric BBQs are still in use today and they are now free (i.e. no cost to the user) - because it is cheaper to provide the service at no cost than attract the high administration/maintenance cost of charging a small fee. Locals, and visitors, now use these facilities and the 'rub-off' to local businesses is still there. The community wins, including council from rates and fees it gathers from the increased patronage of their town.
Perhaps this is where the 'token small fee' for 'camping' at these places will end up - when the accountants stop looking at 'unbundled' costs of each item on the balance sheet and look at the 'big picture' we will see a complete circle on the application of 'fees'.
Cheers - and happy travelling - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 24th of September 2013 10:06:50 AM
This article appeared today in The Examiner, Launceston..
http://www.examiner.com.au/story/1796815/council-not-included-in-camp-fees-decision/?cs=94