I've been an avid follower of this website and have got many top tips in preparation for our big trip commencing in Jan. Thank you!
We collect our first ever caravan next week, its a 22 foot Option RV tornado family series (2.2tonnes unloaded)...v excited!
We currently have a company car.....BMW X5. It has a tow bar plus the electrics have been adjusted in preparation for the big trip. The dealership info states it can tow 2.72 tonnes (interestingly it was manufactured in Germany where it has a 3.5 tonne tow capacity!) Our X5 has 20 inch low profile alloy wheels with run flats. The rear tyres are 315mm and the front 275mm. They are apparently the biggest wheels /tyres the car can take and Bridgestone's advised us today that we cannot change them.
We were happy to take the X5 as its a great car and should be pretty good with fuel consumption and we'll just lose a fair bit of money if we sell it now etc. However, we've met a couple of people recently how have strongly suggested we change it
So, I welcome your thoughts!
Is anyone out driving towing with an X5? If so.....how are you going, any advice?
Has anyone any suggestions ( incl an alternative car if necessary) or can reassure us we'd be most grateful.
Thank you for your time!
Keith19837 said
09:20 PM Nov 18, 2013
Welcome to the forum. I notice that you're based in QLD and your rules may have some differences to those here in Victoria. However, I assume you are likely to come down our way at some stage so I will give some advice pertinent to this State.
In Victoria you cannot exceed your GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass) this is known by other terms in different jurisdictions. Your GVM is calculated by a complex formula but can be worked out by a simple guide that is pretty damn close. Take a look at your manufacturer's tyre placard for the type and size of tyres for your vehicle (you can increase by 2.5 centimetres). If the tyres on your tug comply (which it sounds like they do) then read the weight loading on each of your tyres and add those figures together.
E.G. let's say your tyres are rated for 500 kgs each. 4 x tyres on your tug equals 2000 kgs. Repeat this with your caravan, and for the sake of argument let's say they are also 500 kgs and you have 2 tyres on the van equalling 1000 kgs. Add this to your tug and you now have a GVM of 3000 kgs. This means that your combined weight must not exceed 3000kgs. This weight must include; full fuel tank, full water tanks, bed linen, cutlery, crockery, clothes etc. From the information you have posted, it appears that you have a 'spare' 520kgs up your sleeve in regards to your towing capacity (2.2 unladen with 2.72 tow capacity). Remember that any extra batteries, fresh water tank, gas bottles will eat into your margin. The GVM applies as if the tug and tow were a single vehicle (which it is under Vic legislation whilst they are connected). GVM also applies to the tug and the tow on their own and this is where it can become confusing. Your tug must not exceed it's own individual GVM, the tow likewise must not exceed it's own individual GVM and the two together must not exceed their Combined Vehicle Mass. In some States, the combination is known as Gross Combined Mass but in Vic it's simply known (at law) as GVM. It was set up this way in Victoria to stop 'clever' people from shifting weight from the tow to the tug and visa versa in an attempt to circumvent weights. I'm a little surprised that your dealership would claim a lesser tow weight than the manufacturer as it's usually the other way around, but there may be a difference in legislation between here and QLD. I would have thought that the big German would have had a tow weight somewhere around 3+ tonnes. But from the figures you have given you won't have problems in Victoria unless you put over half a tonne of extra weight into your caravan. Please be careful about hanging weight off the stern. Extra spare tyres, tool boxes and so forth can cause something called the 'pendulum effect'. Worth reading what Collyn RIVERS has said about this on his Collyn Rivers Articles website.
For what it's worth.
Dougwe said
09:26 PM Nov 18, 2013
Hi AB4D, welcome to the forum, enjoy here and out in the playground.
I was about to post my comment but won't add anymore to what Keith has said so just welcome and,
signwilson said
01:18 AM Nov 19, 2013
The only vehicle in my opinion to tow with is the 100 series or 200 series diesel landcruisers 3.5 tonne tow excellent vehicles and can be serviced anywhere in australia
Two Strays said
02:49 AM Nov 19, 2013
Hello AdventureB4Dentures (Choppers)
Given the weight and size of your van, I would also suggest a 200 series Landcruiser Diesel. It will handle almost anything, other than 5th wheelers and land ships over 3.5 tonne.
They are generally reliable (you need to watch the oil level on some older vehicles) and service facilities are around the country, unlike vehicles like the beamer.
Happy Caravanning
AdventureB4Dentures said
03:02 AM Nov 19, 2013
Thanks everyone, ESP Keith.....all comments are much appreciated!
Looking forward to seeing you on the road someday!
Sue
anguswq said
03:14 AM Nov 19, 2013
Hi AB4D,
Maybe another couple of things to consider are BMW service/dealers might be a little rare if you head inland too far and 20" alloys with low profile tyres it may be easy to bend the rims. I took a Clubsport Commodore to the outback and although i did not leave the bitumen 3 out of 4 rims were bent when i got home.
Just a thought
hako said
03:24 AM Nov 19, 2013
I posted an answer to the identical post in the Techies Corner a few hours ago as I was unaware it was in 2 places !!!!!!
I'm probably out of step here, but you really are jumping in, boots and all. I can understand your enthusiasm, and I apologise if I seem as though I am trying to dent it.
As first time caravanners, you've chosen a large van and planning on towing it with a vehicle that will be marginal once you load the van up. The van weighs 2.2 tonne, then you'll have to add 140? litres of water (140KG) - 2 x 9kg gas bottles (40kg) - fridge contents (20kg) - perishables (80KG) - clothes (60kg) - books, TV, microwave, sheets, pillows .......you'll be well over your maximum tow limit before you leave.
Odds on that the ball weight would be well over as well. This is not an ideal scenario.
Additionally I'd reckon that even if you were using a 200 series Landcruiser to tow with, I'd certainly do a caravan towing instruction course with a large caravan to tow.
Again I stress that I'm not trying to dent your enthusiasm.
Good Luck.
EDIT.....sorry I missed the question - which car to tow with........you want something reliable,solid, dependable, powerful and proven. Despite loving my Territory, if I had the cash I'd go for a 200 series Landcruiser - the one with the V8 diesel and twin turbos. That would give confidence IMHO.
Regards
Denis
Rip and Rosie said
03:36 AM Nov 19, 2013
I note your mention of the Ford Territory, Hako.
We tow with a TS diesal RWD... towing capacity 2300 kgs. AWD will take another 400 I believe, but still not massive, but they do a great job with smaller vans.
Also, in addition to all of the gear and provisions, you need to note that the driver and passengers also add to the gross load on the tow vehicle.
There is no way I would try to tow a 2200 van plus load with a territory, and based on those quick calculations as above, with a BMW either.
blaze said
04:13 AM Nov 19, 2013
Needs to be said
Series 2, 3 or 4 landrover discovery, as the series number goes up so does the price but starting around $12000 for a good td5 (turbo diesel) in the series 2, along with that it comes with the euro comfort and build levels, 3.5 tow capacity. Standard service available the same places as your other brands. With all models the later the vehicle the harder the service and parts availability.
cheers
blaze
Plendo said
04:21 AM Nov 19, 2013
Hi AB4D,
our tow rig is a Land Rover Discovery, which we believe to be the best tow vehicle on sale in Australia. Now I have got my bias out of the way, I can state that I can not see much wrong with the X5 as a tow vehicle.
When it comes to towing weight your van is 2,200kg, and manufacturers typically add about 400kg of payload, so it is likely it will have an ATM (All up Tare Mass, the maximum weight the van can be loaded to) of around 2,600. If the van has independent suspension it is likely the manufacturer wil plate the ATM at close to 3,500kg. If you want to keep the van legal to tow behind the X5 get them to plate it under your towing capacity (most will do it).
I note that BMW calculates the payload of 680Kg above the kerb weight, and that they allow for the weight of fuel in the kerb weight, this makes it easier to keep your tow vehicle legal as regards GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass, the maximum weight that can sit on the four wheels of the tow car, including the ball weight, fuel, passengers, luggage etc). This is where many tow vehicles become illegal, especially landcruisers (100 and 200 series, where the payload is based on an empty vehicle).
Many people will tell you that you would be crazy to use anything but one of the "common" vehicles, this could be true if you were going to live way out in the outback, but around the common areas it would make little difference. Even the common vehicle dealers only carry fast moving service parts. Recent tales of a guy waiting weeks for a 200 series water pump, or another having to wait weeks for Triton engine parts.
You need to look at what you can tow legally with, and also what YOU want to drive. After driving an X5, you would find a more truck like vehicle a huge disappointment as you get into it every day.
Good luck with your decision.
AdventureB4Dentures said
07:23 AM Nov 19, 2013
Thanks again everyone. I'm really impressed at the thoughtful and well balanced responses....I thought I was going to get heaps of abuse re the X5 but comments have all been really helpful...
We're off to Rainbow Beach on 29th....that's if our caravan is delivered on the 27th! It'll be good to test out the car and rig and we'll hopefully be in a better and more informed position to move forward.
Cheers!
Zoomtopz said
03:15 PM Nov 19, 2013
Welcome Sue . My 2/-s worth
Why not get used to your van on short trips & lengths of stays .
Then consider keeping th B'mer or going to a 'tug'
If my Mrs doesn't like a vehicle she call it a tug . But , there are some nice tugs around now .
I updated from a Landcruiser to th Kia Sorrento , comfy inside , all bells & whistles & auto with 2.5 turbo diesel .
Th 2.5 is certainly big enough for me , our van wil only go to 12-1500kg , but I use farm trailers around our property ,
with 2ton on em , plenty of power . Th Kia is rated 2.7ton . And th minister of finance likes it .
She never liked my Benz though .
Richo
mr ed said
01:50 AM Nov 23, 2013
HI aB4D,
We didnt have a BMW X5 but we bought a Mercedes ML320 which stated a tow capacity of 3.5ton but in the fine print once you get over 2249kg weight
your maximum ball weight is only 140kg - we talked to Mercedes and tow bar manufactures to see if there was anything we could do and was told no
the dealers manufactures spec's cannot be changed - so be careful and do all the checks - we sold our beautiful Merc and ended us getting a dual cab ute
Isuzu Dmax which does the job very well - we have a 20'6 suncoast van 2210 tare Good Luck
aljohno said
02:17 AM Nov 23, 2013
Hi Sue,
A couple of things to take into account.
Ball weight that many european cars can carry, do not suit/match aussie vans. The use of WDH are also not recommended in some cases.
Space saver tyres are useless when towing and in the country. Would recommend replacing with full size spare.
20" tyres will be very scarce in country area and it may be worth asking about getting smaller wheels and higher profile tyres if they will fit.
Firstly, hello there!
I've been an avid follower of this website and have got many top tips in preparation for our big trip commencing in Jan. Thank you!
We collect our first ever caravan next week, its a 22 foot Option RV tornado family series (2.2tonnes unloaded)...v excited!
We currently have a company car.....BMW X5. It has a tow bar plus the electrics have been adjusted in preparation for the big trip. The dealership info states it can tow 2.72 tonnes (interestingly it was manufactured in Germany where it has a 3.5 tonne tow capacity!) Our X5 has 20 inch low profile alloy wheels with run flats. The rear tyres are 315mm and the front 275mm. They are apparently the biggest wheels /tyres the car can take and Bridgestone's advised us today that we cannot change them.
We were happy to take the X5 as its a great car and should be pretty good with fuel consumption and we'll just lose a fair bit of money if we sell it now etc. However, we've met a couple of people recently how have strongly suggested we change it
So, I welcome your thoughts!
Is anyone out driving towing with an X5? If so.....how are you going, any advice?
Has anyone any suggestions ( incl an alternative car if necessary) or can reassure us we'd be most grateful.
Thank you for your time!
Welcome to the forum. I notice that you're based in QLD and your rules may have some differences to those here in Victoria. However, I assume you are likely to come down our way at some stage so I will give some advice pertinent to this State.
In Victoria you cannot exceed your GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass) this is known by other terms in different jurisdictions. Your GVM is calculated by a complex formula but can be worked out by a simple guide that is pretty damn close. Take a look at your manufacturer's tyre placard for the type and size of tyres for your vehicle (you can increase by 2.5 centimetres). If the tyres on your tug comply (which it sounds like they do) then read the weight loading on each of your tyres and add those figures together.
E.G. let's say your tyres are rated for 500 kgs each. 4 x tyres on your tug equals 2000 kgs. Repeat this with your caravan, and for the sake of argument let's say they are also 500 kgs and you have 2 tyres on the van equalling 1000 kgs. Add this to your tug and you now have a GVM of 3000 kgs. This means that your combined weight must not exceed 3000kgs. This weight must include; full fuel tank, full water tanks, bed linen, cutlery, crockery, clothes etc. From the information you have posted, it appears that you have a 'spare' 520kgs up your sleeve in regards to your towing capacity (2.2 unladen with 2.72 tow capacity). Remember that any extra batteries, fresh water tank, gas bottles will eat into your margin. The GVM applies as if the tug and tow were a single vehicle (which it is under Vic legislation whilst they are connected). GVM also applies to the tug and the tow on their own and this is where it can become confusing. Your tug must not exceed it's own individual GVM, the tow likewise must not exceed it's own individual GVM and the two together must not exceed their Combined Vehicle Mass. In some States, the combination is known as Gross Combined Mass but in Vic it's simply known (at law) as GVM. It was set up this way in Victoria to stop 'clever' people from shifting weight from the tow to the tug and visa versa in an attempt to circumvent weights. I'm a little surprised that your dealership would claim a lesser tow weight than the manufacturer as it's usually the other way around, but there may be a difference in legislation between here and QLD. I would have thought that the big German would have had a tow weight somewhere around 3+ tonnes. But from the figures you have given you won't have problems in Victoria unless you put over half a tonne of extra weight into your caravan. Please be careful about hanging weight off the stern. Extra spare tyres, tool boxes and so forth can cause something called the 'pendulum effect'. Worth reading what Collyn RIVERS has said about this on his Collyn Rivers Articles website.
For what it's worth.
I was about to post my comment but won't add anymore to what Keith has said so just welcome and,
The only vehicle in my opinion to tow with is the 100 series or 200 series diesel landcruisers 3.5 tonne tow excellent vehicles and can be serviced anywhere in australia
Hello AdventureB4Dentures (Choppers)
Given the weight and size of your van, I would also suggest a 200 series Landcruiser Diesel. It will handle almost anything, other than 5th wheelers and land ships over 3.5 tonne.
They are generally reliable (you need to watch the oil level on some older vehicles) and service facilities are around the country, unlike vehicles like the beamer.
Happy Caravanning
Looking forward to seeing you on the road someday!
Sue
Hi AB4D,
Maybe another couple of things to consider are BMW service/dealers might be a little rare if you head inland too far and 20" alloys with low profile tyres it may be easy to bend the rims. I took a Clubsport Commodore to the outback and although i did not leave the bitumen 3 out of 4 rims were bent when i got home.
Just a thought
I'm probably out of step here, but you really are jumping in, boots and all. I can understand your enthusiasm, and I apologise if I seem as though I am trying to dent it.
As first time caravanners, you've chosen a large van and planning on towing it with a vehicle that will be marginal once you load the van up. The van weighs 2.2 tonne, then you'll have to add 140? litres of water (140KG) - 2 x 9kg gas bottles (40kg) - fridge contents (20kg) - perishables (80KG) - clothes (60kg) - books, TV, microwave, sheets, pillows .......you'll be well over your maximum tow limit before you leave.
Odds on that the ball weight would be well over as well. This is not an ideal scenario.
Additionally I'd reckon that even if you were using a 200 series Landcruiser to tow with, I'd certainly do a caravan towing instruction course with a large caravan to tow.
Again I stress that I'm not trying to dent your enthusiasm.
Good Luck.
EDIT.....sorry I missed the question - which car to tow with........you want something reliable,solid, dependable, powerful and proven. Despite loving my Territory, if I had the cash I'd go for a 200 series Landcruiser - the one with the V8 diesel and twin turbos. That would give confidence IMHO.
Regards
Denis
We tow with a TS diesal RWD... towing capacity 2300 kgs. AWD will take another 400 I believe, but still not massive, but they do a great job with smaller vans.
Also, in addition to all of the gear and provisions, you need to note that the driver and passengers also add to the gross load on the tow vehicle.
There is no way I would try to tow a 2200 van plus load with a territory, and based on those quick calculations as above, with a BMW either.
Series 2, 3 or 4 landrover discovery, as the series number goes up so does the price but starting around $12000 for a good td5 (turbo diesel) in the series 2, along with that it comes with the euro comfort and build levels, 3.5 tow capacity. Standard service available the same places as your other brands. With all models the later the vehicle the harder the service and parts availability.
cheers
blaze
Hi AB4D,
our tow rig is a Land Rover Discovery, which we believe to be the best tow vehicle on sale in Australia. Now I have got my bias out of the way, I can state that I can not see much wrong with the X5 as a tow vehicle.
When it comes to towing weight your van is 2,200kg, and manufacturers typically add about 400kg of payload, so it is likely it will have an ATM (All up Tare Mass, the maximum weight the van can be loaded to) of around 2,600. If the van has independent suspension it is likely the manufacturer wil plate the ATM at close to 3,500kg. If you want to keep the van legal to tow behind the X5 get them to plate it under your towing capacity (most will do it).
I note that BMW calculates the payload of 680Kg above the kerb weight, and that they allow for the weight of fuel in the kerb weight, this makes it easier to keep your tow vehicle legal as regards GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass, the maximum weight that can sit on the four wheels of the tow car, including the ball weight, fuel, passengers, luggage etc). This is where many tow vehicles become illegal, especially landcruisers (100 and 200 series, where the payload is based on an empty vehicle).
Many people will tell you that you would be crazy to use anything but one of the "common" vehicles, this could be true if you were going to live way out in the outback, but around the common areas it would make little difference. Even the common vehicle dealers only carry fast moving service parts. Recent tales of a guy waiting weeks for a 200 series water pump, or another having to wait weeks for Triton engine parts.
You need to look at what you can tow legally with, and also what YOU want to drive. After driving an X5, you would find a more truck like vehicle a huge disappointment as you get into it every day.
Good luck with your decision.
We're off to Rainbow Beach on 29th....that's if our caravan is delivered on the 27th! It'll be good to test out the car and rig and we'll hopefully be in a better and more informed position to move forward.
Cheers!
Welcome Sue . My 2/-s worth
Why not get used to your van on short trips & lengths of stays .
Then consider keeping th B'mer or going to a 'tug'
If my Mrs doesn't like a vehicle she call it a tug . But , there are some nice tugs around now .
I updated from a Landcruiser to th Kia Sorrento , comfy inside , all bells & whistles & auto with 2.5 turbo diesel .
Th 2.5 is certainly big enough for me , our van wil only go to 12-1500kg , but I use farm trailers around our property ,
with 2ton on em , plenty of power . Th Kia is rated 2.7ton . And th minister of finance likes it .
She never liked my Benz though .
Richo
HI aB4D,
We didnt have a BMW X5 but we bought a Mercedes ML320 which stated a tow capacity of 3.5ton but in the fine print once you get over 2249kg weight
your maximum ball weight is only 140kg - we talked to Mercedes and tow bar manufactures to see if there was anything we could do and was told no
the dealers manufactures spec's cannot be changed - so be careful and do all the checks - we sold our beautiful Merc and ended us getting a dual cab ute
Isuzu Dmax which does the job very well - we have a 20'6 suncoast van 2210 tare Good Luck
Hi Sue,
A couple of things to take into account.
Ball weight that many european cars can carry, do not suit/match aussie vans. The use of WDH are also not recommended in some cases.
Space saver tyres are useless when towing and in the country. Would recommend replacing with full size spare.
20" tyres will be very scarce in country area and it may be worth asking about getting smaller wheels and higher profile tyres if they will fit.